Ron Luce Talks with Dr. Brown on How to Keep Young People in the Faith

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. What are some of the young people leaving the faith and what can be done to make lasting disciples talk to an expert about time for the light a fire with your host scholar and cultural commentator Dr. Michael Brown your voice for more savvy and spiritual clarity.

Call 866-34-TRUTH to get on the line of fire and now there's your host Dr. Michael Brown WITH my special guest Ron Bruce those of you who were young people all a few years back or been involved in youth ministry would know teen mania. Many, many thousands of young people deeply impacted taking missions trips serving around the world.

Ron is now leading generation next we had a talk a few months back about what's happening in the church why so many young people leaving the faith and keys to making lasting disciples so you have a really eye-opening constructive talk today but if you have a question maybe your youth ministry yourself. Maybe your pastor may be your young person and have questions.

If you have specific questions about this topic and want to talk to Ron. The number to call is 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH 87884 or you can post your question on YouTube or Facebook Esther to Brown on YouTube or Facebook but again only relevant to the discussion that were having today no further ado, Ron is great to have you on the line farther.

Thanks for joining us back to Dr. Brown the honor to be with you well, but we've only spent a little time together face-to-face. When we finally talked it was great to compare notes greater length than studies that you been involved in ministry been involved in is all pointing to practical solutions but first let's go back in history a little bit. Tell us how teen mania was formed and what you see in retrospect is that the strengths of teen mania.

Perhaps the weaknesses as well. Well, what about know about God. My wife and I felt back in 1980 that we were about to do everything we could to that a generation on fire and give them a heart to change the world and so it was just me and her little car were driving around in it with the radio having it we were doing a crusade. We have been if can get the time packing out living across America at eyed preselector like 10,010 Amanda Yang encouraged her to get totally committed old for the call, give their life to Christ and go on this trip so immediately that next summer we took 30 young people on this section were on the road again and do not live literally calling every little church in America that had no idea who we were, which is all of them, and to the local library number microfiche microfiche of of of of Yellow Pages from different cities in the country of churches calling doing cold all day while know me but my name is Ron Leif and I started doing about acute give up after about every 40 phone call on someone with a yes sent me a brochure so I just did the math I'm in a phone call I have enough in the event go to and like I said would prevent the year. I'm in a week and then travel from place to place by the greater good of the next year more than after three or four years to get too many thing the 300,000 churches in America are we whenever an average of all three start doing conferences where you pastor could bring his youth group to an event and I'm in a region and so the week we call the acquire the fire, we started those and 91 and literally for 25 years, 33, we configure we do an event yesterday. Every year, so I'm they just kept going and by the grace of God literally without more than 3 million young people come up to the events in thousands and thousands come to Christ. Our whole thing, but we know you can with young people into a frenzy of devotional. We don't want to do that we would try to be very creative in how we create to me to get the gospel and course would always present the gospel. Every year the theme. Maybe it's about living pure, maybe for how to develop real friendship.

Maybe it had to have you with your parents what the Bible say about all the topic but and try to also be very creative with video comedy interactivity at and that kind of thing and then always a call to go to the nations as well. We started taking more markets on mission trips each year. We take hundreds and then thousands, over and over all the years we took some 80,000 young people on this trip. We had a internship in Garden Valley, Texas, and of course you got, be diligent in terms that one point but hundreds of young people there giving a year of their life and so II. In retrospect I'm doing everything I can to no rescue these kids return for Christ that we figured we took him on a mission trip in the interest if we give them so deep in their faith.

They wouldn't backslide. However, now, in retrospect, I think first of all, I don't think we are 3 million kids come because were such great marketers.

What was happening to the church in America that it people are gasping for air.

Youth groups are dying and are looking for anywhere they can given CPR for their account. Our event here try to get the young people on fire again so I think we have phenomena like that in America now where the Walmart effect. Something looked big but actually because other things are dying and I you look at the percentage of Christians in America number of people going to church young people coming to Christ or that note the call of the Christian is getting less and less and less, no matter what we do and for the last four decades, five decades and felt so I've been studying the last five years.

How do we have real answers 15 trend rather than keep doing the same thing and hoping for different results. You said and thank God for the good fruit did come out of this. Our younger daughter went to Romania with teen mania was really impacted and in what I remember she and and her older sister's daughter had some some friends in the congregation and one of the girls was kind of. She was probably in the faith, but she was. She was not really deeply committed and she was in Africa among sure she was in Africa and on her mission strip and it was for about a month and she had tickets to a U2 concert and shiny.

She called her mom and dad since he said I've got a stun gun to see more souls saved of Congress take so she stated that I struggle remember just hearing that thinking while well and that that fire burner for many years, you can't. You can't make some burn a whole lifetime, but when someone gets touched in years and years of their living by that that's that's major.

But yeah, I think that often we fail to look at the big picture wrong.

We we we see a hole in the dam and we stick once a man that with another finger that what we've already used all the all the figures and all the toes. So something else has to happen so tell us what would you have discovered some of the main issues we'll talk solutions friends today, but what are some of the main problems that you are uncovering in your studies well buddy were divorced I get my doctorate reading University couple years ago that the science of future identifying trend and looking at how they might impact a variety of different industries. So I went study or the trend the next five and 20 years that are going to most impact the church and what can we do about it. And by the way, of course, those trends will most impact the younger generation because they'll impact them in the lip their life with that trend and so some of some of what we've seen that it is not new, but we start connecting the dots becomes a AR kind of inflection point that makes you so for example, one of the big trends were identified that is frightening or daunting is the aging of the church of the grading of the church, both in America and around the world where you look at what is the average age of those who are Christians or call themselves Christian and if they getting older and older, and all-around world. We documented where almost every single place that has been Christianized is getting older and older and only means that youth ministry in America and around the world were just reaching less and less percentage and so there's less than churches, though you have a in South Korea for close to 10,000 last 10 years because everybody was old.you and the one of the metrics that it we haven't been paying attention to good week we look at like a happy or you know how many campuses do we have or you don't have, how did open.

How big is the back door. The front door of the church we go two or 3% but one of the – for the gauges without looking on the dashboard. The average age of our church and what it look like six months ago or you're going. What because it's sort of that gauge gets hidden and as a result, churches are getting older and older and literally slowly dying, though they reverse engineering going on. Why would that be. We we in youth ministry. If you are youth pastor involvement. There's lots of character. We went on. You can't say people have been working hard people than working really hard but it is some of the things that we discover that are stored right in our faith that we just don't think our paradigms that do not help us in the quest for the next generation. For example, we've known for a long time. Kids come back from college like a well I'm not going us on Microsoft hat my parents or my pastor is my parent pastor 70 or 80% after they get into college. Don't come back to church and we do well is not fatter than we just keep doing the same thing. Well if we look at the paradigm underneath that is so higher cool guy with a little To. He plays guitar and heat to get detention for three years before you leap over those years why he's there. The kids for the youth pastor as a working looking into their life as many hymns are not even a Sunday morning service for the pastor to plant nuggets into their life, they come back from college and they go will my my pastor's gone. The guy that was a cool guy with the tattoo and fell back down state that my pastor you never I got getting anything planted in my life from him and so they start wondering. That's my parent pastor and the pastors know what to do.

So he just because of the paradigm just go hire the next guy with the cool guy can keep your attention as though there literally paying people salary have to because people believe the church and they don't even realize it because they think they're doing the responsible thing hiring youth pastor and youth doctors are great, except that the pastor needs to be the pastor of the whole church and absent spiritual deposit that young person feels and if you get them that that person has changed my life. A lot of pastors they feel like I'm not cool, not relatable on this day.

That's why I hired a cool guy and instead of realizing you don't have to be young and cool. You just need to be as honest and real. Just try whatever sermon you have to make. Think of that 15-year-old fit in your view, and just make one illustration for your message.

Each week that will apply to that girl at that guy and so they know you're thinking about and so there's a lot of a number paradigms like that that have caused this will stay right here in place so much to unpack your friends begin. We identify some of the problems this year they are there. The elephants in the room. There are solutions. Be forewarned, solutions are as radical as the Jesus of the Bible will be right back with promised Dr. Ron Lewis, the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown to friends last one hour from now 15 Eastern time will be right back here on YouTube, so those watching on YouTube was missing on ready you can switch over ASKDR Brown on YouTube 415 for our weekly exclusive Q&A chat so all subjects under the sun.

You get to post questions answer as many as I can I get back to my guest, Dr. Ron loose Ron, I've had the privilege of ministering in South Korea since 1990.

Think of been there 13 times and I never met anyone that praise the way they pray I'm in one pastor with a network of about 70,000 that he was over was speaking for him and he told me that for many many years, decades, he slid the 6 AM prayer meeting at his church and the early morning prayer at 4:30 AM and that was just his lifestyle never seen that little praying devotion. But as I went more recent years, I thought Oman. It's see it with my eyes all my the graying of the church and where are the young people in the numbers I was reading about them in hearing about anything. How it is so burdensome is so grievous because of the fervor and because of the commitment but we often just do the same thing over and again Eastern America thinking that that somehow you solve the problem. What else have you identified in terms of especially young people leaving you set a lot of ready and I want to talk about some of the solutions but what else did you learn your doctoral studies well continue. Talk about career though. What an amazing revival.

We spoke about the part about it is 82% Christian, 33% Christian in abortifacient.

Now I do know that ever happened before that kind of miracle. It's probably hard to have your with about your record doing about you is a growing millions and millions and millions all the different churches Joe and everybody else so before casting a stone.

I think I like I've not been in the middle that I can't really relate to that. However, today we know the dataset that of young people in in Korea it's only 1.7% Christian, less than before the revival so it it's about an end for pastors. I'm not advocating you need to turn your whole church into a youth church but I am thing if you just tell your sale a little bit like what could you do let you end up on a whole different part of the ocean help yourself if they would aimed a little bit at young people. All of the praying.

All of the stuff that they've done for all these decades now may have been able to really impacted now course that got the prosperity going on there people about the church because of that Cape optional kind of thing and so I would say that it diving deep into why the grain church helps to bring solutions that though in the middle of my studies as I'm looking at things like technology and all the future enough things that are happening so quickly and we can barely keep her mind wrapped around about it.this everywhere and in all that there's nothing else than others. Virtual reality in all of this and how can you compete with that if you would like were being collided with all the high-tech stuff that shaping and influencing our kids and and really even Christian him stealing them from us because they spend way more time with the with the technology and the media in the social media than they been they do at church or even with her parents and so I found though our gloves about that.

I found another then I found another that was to find it is to find all the technology trends the grading of the church, Trent and all the other trends that have been that are negative for pulling the young generation from Christ and their they're doing things. My first thought in Singapore than I thought. Developing thought. It Forgot gonna thought in Bogotá Columbia Russia a few other places.

I was like oh my gosh this like I'm so ashamed and embarrassed.

We look around America and I've never thought what I've seen in the churches they are defying the odds of the churchgoing old actually growing their church. Young by reaching the young generations are reaching them and as a result.

That's the strategy to grow their church because they base their strategies on data over we all know that this study for decades as they both people come to Christ or 20 some death show up to 90% or 20 International Bible Society, 83% come to Christ between four and 14 result that all around the world and it's not new data that we haven't used it.

We the church to inform our action. We just kind of keep you and that's good because we have this conundrum and the conundrum is what you love everybody should try to reach everybody and then like a shotgun. We try to reach everybody we rejoice, but Jesus was focused though think about when he was here alive in person you love everybody but he still spent more time with the 70. The crowd that more time 12 the 70s that what I went through the 12 that it he defocused any prioritized people that were more respect and love everybody and we can do this we can chew gum and walk at the same time we can love everything but focus on those most likely to come to Christ and naturally found in Singapore in so many churches the exponential churches we found around the world. They anybody's luck, but they focus on the sweet spot between 13 and 19 years old on you can't really get to them when their children else. You direct Sunday school, vacation Bible school, but at 13. There is a little bit of a chance for them to make their own decision.

I'm going to go to the movies with my friends think like that and so fast or how in Singapore with the first one who told me is is wrong with we focus on every 13-year-old in our footprint, but what you talking like a businessman cadet marketing language because I'm not talking about everything felt. I'm talking about.

We identify every school represented in our church we find out how many 13-year-old. The remote pool we go after those third funeral that is working to reach them. Sometimes they get 1617 18 another colder driving. Maybe the drinking I got back I get caught in a lot of energy is spent on trying to get it who don't want to get caught 13-year-old want to get caught there sort of in this at this moment.

What I'm not child adult and if you're not careful let's social media kind of you.

Give them their identity and their the ones looking uncool, except that the cool kids is that the druggies is that the jock and usually the church is running right bottom will be stricken focused on the guy a couple times a year. They do a big event pushed everybody find it, or 0.430. I'll bring a niece or nephew go make friends with one and get up to this event. At that slap your mama got in the house go down the gospel called the Christ and one of the best practices that we found we identified a handful of best practices that all the churches you want is the aim for them, whether in their sweet spot while are most likely to come to Christ. In most Western countries, about 13 years old and Japan's low but older they really can't get to them before they're aching because their culture and that kind of thing. Second, and another best practice is a they once they come to Christ.

This really important. They take them on a deep dive we call it the back discipleship. You know in America we throw that word around discipleship is the four classes you take out the estate, but they have a hold of thinking about they they think Morgan will put them in a pipeline that 13 put a pipeline together goes all of 214 1515 because I get to 20 or 21 years old and back what they do is they think deeply about what we want them to look like when they get to be 21 and then the reverse engineer it go config with it just like you would a school or university or they think that in picking and fixing.

They have tried that all of them like you think it will do this, but they will we know young people love radical method. The problem is only radical message. A lot of times they hear that camper at acquired fire or copper. They don't hear regularly and so what they did with it. They put this whole discipleship pipeline together all radical you gospel the truth you renew your mind and and shaping them into the young men and women so somebody got the new neglect 20 years now.

The dirt in each other's weddings forgot. Treat others kids they solve that issue. What happens when they graduate. It's not what Simon does. It's a paradigm of radical growth. Think about red bull for your favorite rebel rebel for like six years and at the third best practice that they all do is some kind of a at leadership training for young people to once there, a disciple for years and they put them into leadership training because the assume closes. Everybody's going to Margaret everybody's going to delete everything in it to pray for people and ministry people because that's part of the font like Jesus invited us all and in commission us all to get involved in the great commission and minister to people and so the assume closes. Everybody's going to get to have fun and lead and people on there and guides them at their growth in Christ. And so it really life-giving, but is also very systemic. There training leaders all the time.

They're having a big event a couple times a year for young with her 13-year-old and then they had this deep dive discipleship that goes by Mr. wonderful week, another trimester 12 week another trimester 12 week and some of the medical typically all the way those six or seven years until they get 21 and fill you think it's a sticky web of good if you get out you got her worried really want to get out. You don't want to get out around that I want to interact with some of this on the other side of the break. This is so rich friends if you're in a church and youth involved with this is awesome to hear this sinister pastor, youth pastor, pastors, youth pastors, listening others involved in all types of youth ministry evangelists hear these words this this is so so important.

Roman got a break in 15 seconds. This website of yours that folks can go to to find about about what you're doing today certain generation.MD.me. You can find out all about transcendent. We have to have a programmable project. 13 for churches that are interested in doing incredible church of Generation X.M all right friends write that down generation. Next to me right back with Ron this is the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown got on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown iteration next.ME board where catchy website, revolutionary executive education for pastors and their team exponential one will talk about that with my guest and Ron loose the ROM in trigger so many thoughts as you talking this will say a few things and give it back to you but I am trike every so often with Andy Stanley and we have a lot in areas of agreement and here and there will have some some friendly sparring on areas of disagreement, something he said that's really stuck with me is one of the most influential pastors in America that his target when he's preaching is a 15 to 16-year-old and that would excite some the most is when his teenagers are eager to get to church.

They don't want to miss a church service that to him is the biggest thing and I think that's when I got saved in 1971 at the age of 16 is a heroin shooting LSD using hippie rock drummer. It was a totally traditional church little Italian Pentecostal church pastor's wife play the piano.

We sang the hymns of there is nothing youth-oriented about the was in the youth group anything like that. A bunch of us got saved around the same time, but it was very little formal discipleship. But if you wanted to dive in with was Monday night prayer meeting.

It was Tuesday night service this Friday night service through Sunday school or Sunday morning.

Then we added a Wednesday night service that we had in the Sunday night service. Then we did door-to-door outreach different things so I got involved with everything and at a certain point I remember I said to myself as I get instantly set free from drugs, but by God's grace I said I could lead a clean but empty life like you give myself to God the way I gave myself to drugs and rock music. By the time I was saved a year. I used to spend at least six or seven hours alone with God in the word and prayer. Undistracted uninterrupted those things late foundations for the rest of my life. So even though there was not a conscious use discipleship. There was at least a final were those who are hungry and thirsty to join together with other committed believers. Older believers and we we went after Jesus together when you are saying is doing things in a systematic, intentional way we look at the young people in the red ecology of what they're exposed to, and we come up with this idea to destroy the entertainment church which is ridiculous, but we need to shows following Jesus is a radical thing. Are you willing to will run with the and I get spoiled because I'm in so many places where young people on fire were churches are growing with their largely young that I get to pour into the cream of the crop they go to ministry schools for more training and and I realize okay that's not what's happening all around that I can't base things of what I'm seeing because I'm seeing some of the exceptions are looking at the larger figures would serve very very daunting. More and more people are recognizing now so before we get into anymore. These best practices on your experiences out in America are pastors and leaders able to take hold of this, you mention Singapore you mention Philippines mention countries in Africa are pastors in America able to take hold of this and I see do this here in the US. Well that is a great question because a lot of time will the wall that South America and fellow I finally met a pastor that I had actually gone think quest that I was on loading the church in many of the same churches in the Los Angeles he came back home and he goes okay I've learned all the stuff now what is it about America that exit so that there's barriers to applying for example I would like to be church would be for another beat the fog on we don't want authority in our life in Los Angeles. One of the barriers that it's hard to get anybody anywhere because of the transportation you would let your younger thought though, he took all the.

Okay, the barrier take the principal bid been curated and apply them and we've done it and it been amazing. Lozano is 700 to 3000 in two years and it was going to 4900 and these are people that are not just coming to Christ. But they're all involved and simultaneous trimesters going on at the time of growth.

Growth go and so there is good and I think hope for pastors because there are a lot of out. They talk a lot faster and now there pastors and their like the only a lot of money that if you get out and work were stuffing all the negative data will now there is hope. Like there's a proven process.

You don't have to reinvent the wheel. You know every industry in the world. Go find out with the best practices are industry bring it back. You can't cheat and just copy and paste the hot tub personalize that you failed well. How does this apply to my being at my church to my community to my culture, things like that.

You can't just be you know a no-brainer about it, but at the same time you can you can take that that best practices in the and the principles behind that they okay, how will that work in my context and so yeah we we try to do is take something as I kept learning I want everyone to church. It looked under the hood? The pastor will level the leadership and then thought, okay, now we take this, it's sophisticated and deep and it's working and make it simple for a pastor or youth pastor.

As you know what I'm ready for a fresh paradigm, and so the midweek we call the first project, 13 because were getting the churches and the youth pastors to focus on reaching the church is about €13 but you're reaching them a couple times a year