Black and White Believers Standing Together for Righteousness

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network as white and black believers were blind spots and how can we better work together for the church of the nation's time for the light a fire with your host biblical scholar and cultural commentator Dr. Michael Brown your voice for more savvy and spiritual clarity called 866-34-TRUTH to get on the line of fire and now there's your host Dr. Michael Brown prays I opening candid, edifying conversation you can join in by calling 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH 87884 this is Michael Brown. This is a conversation I've been wanting to have for quite some time. I got a guest in studio with me.

Marcus Benjamin is an award-winning entrepreneur leadership speaker.

He shared the stage with people like John Maxwell he has a strategic company helping other companies develop and grow is pastored for 14 years involved in ministry to the state artist Benjamin reached out to me last year we spent some time face-to-face together and wanted to have this conversation. So Marcus, welcome to one of our great to have you with us a man of B. Thank you so so why was it that you reached out to be. When you reach out to me you know where lived. I said I modified to see the sky regular zone find out where a few minutes from each other. What did you want to reach out to me. Honestly, when I was seeing the twitter conversations from several years ago I noticed that although I could tell you were a strong conservative in your finger position and beliefs that you still had an objective and an unbiased vantage point that I thought was very rare and that's where the conversation. Sky got started. Wells like manual, this guy seems to be unbiased and committed to the truth wherever it leads.

And so that was the primary impulse that led you to me to reach out as a man where you locate laugh matter where you are affecting us from a conversation you as I will miss our loud like okay out of the flag and drive him right here as well Boston awesome summit. Obviously we all have blind spots in your were seeking to honor the Lord and follow the truth wherever it leads.

But that that has been my goal for over 50 years ago this of the consequence and when it comes to issues about politics, about race, about justice and things like that. Okay, we have our background, we have our perspective for you though. What's what's the ultimate is is it background is race ethnicity as the Bible is that what what's the ultimate guideline for the ultimate guideline for me is the kingdom of God is expressed through the ministry of Jesus when Jesus was here he taught. He preached the context that surrounded what he did with the kingdom of God. He told us to repent for the kingdom of God is here.

Change of thinking, change with looking. He was constantly challenging the Pharisees and Sadducees. The prevailing culture with a kingdom of God world and vantage point you've heard it say now I say unto you, you've heard it said now I say unto you, he was bringing a higher level macro or eternal perspective to the issues of our time that affected us here, but ultimately what effect does eternity so the kingdom of God and Jesus Christ as our king and Lord, are the primary impulses that shape my worldview. I so some years ago, the remission of friends of mine in Holland.

They were they were living in apartment.

There were believers from home and on one floor, these believers for America on another floor and one day they were bringing their garbage out and the Americans had all the soda cans with them and that the judge had all these beer cans with them and the Dutch because they consider few Christians while you drinking soda and ended the Americans and a few Christians were you drinking beer. We often do that, especially when it comes to voting right and and often it's white believers vote one way black believers vote the other way and we can't figure this out so we we had some good conversations about about history of things right so in 2008, when Sen. Obama ran for president. There was a very large turnout. African-American turnout in the state of California. The African-American voters help tip the scales for proposition eight, which are saying. Marriage is a union of one man one woman which we as white conservative say amen to but they also voted for Barack Obama, which seemed to be a complete contradiction. So a fellow asked me once said, why do you think it is there some elected officials. Black Americans there. They are pastors on Sunday morning there preaching against homosexuality against abortion but then there Democrats. I said, to me it sounds hypocritical. I don't get it. So give me some of the history give me insight that will first baldly the experience of black people in America as a group and even is increased individually. It is a complex issue.

Our experience in America is unique for many of the people group in America. We've been embrace we been asked to embrace a country that has not embraced us in large mass or en masse for many years and we've been here: Pro 1619 to the present and therefore you know being using a timeline, 1964 wasn't that far was it wasn't that long ago. So our experience in America is is different and is difficult and it is complex sold even with the reference proposition eight present bomb, etc., that sort of emblematic of how our experience is in America look at our history, what we've had to stand for and unfortunately standing for things that benefited black people haven't always benefited us long term we will look at civil rights legislation that is happened in this country, you know, 64, moving forward. There's a lot included in a civil rights bill that wasn't for black people. But in order for that civil rights bill to pass because there were so much the Buster ring arguing we know how that went. It was almost as if black rights or black civil rights was like a consolation prize amidst a whole lot of other things that was packaged into that my thing all those things were negative or illegitimate on this into making a point that it wasn't a bill for black people is my point. Sole our experience in America is somewhat contradictory and we're endeavoring to manifest what that should look like. As believers and as people were dealing with social issues that other people groups may not deal with.

To the extent that we have to. So let's say you you agree and unless you can view individually but say were talking majority here comes the right so it back 80, 81% of white evangelicals that voted voted for Donald Trump right overwhelmingly black believers not always considered evangelical different writing categories. But Blackley was still overwhelmingly voted for for Hillary or for for Biden right so again it's one of those things I don't get it because if we sit and talk it say over against abortion were against homosexuality so widely wishes, look at the judgmentally whether something wrong there and then, conversely, will help you vote for my like Donald Trump right right so why is it, how is it that so many black Americans.

Christians have been part of the Democratic Party or have a sense of loyalty will you know we go back to you America's history outside of order so let's look at civil rights and civil rights, but the Civil War the post-Civil War. No Blacks in mass were getting elected in the politics and nearly every black person I was being elected into politics was being elected as a Republican, of which that's not a history dynamic there but you know we don't have enough time to deal through that. You know in this conversation but were fast warning from 1865 and coming all the way up in the living 1960 we look at the civil rights movement in America that begin early crown and have national implications and influence. Dr. King utilizing the media to get this message out to get these images out, etc. were the people who were showing up in mass to support quote and quote civil rights for black people will we find out is many of those people were liberal whites that were showing up in Selma that were showing up in Birmingham that were showing up in Jackson, Mississippi. Not not not the fundamentalist Christians, not the fundamentalist Christians were showing up in mass. Now I know there were people who were believers white conservative believers on the minutes we were apart, but it was very much individual as opposed to a collective group of people saying were going to stand with black people or going through this social issue.

So a lot of the conservative white churches in the South were okay with segregation.

Unfortunately SME when Dr. King wrote his letter from it on the letter of warning for the Birmingham jail he was in writing that letter to you know people were supporting him. He was writing that letter to court and quote what we can.

At that point was you know the Christian moderate right no changes in a calm right. This list is keeping it will be organic docking like well it's 1963 is like a 61 you know. So from that standpoint that Affinity really started getting from wet concrete to hard concrete because of the type of white person and I'm using white from a from a number standpoint yes like people didn't have political power, economic power at the national level sold. According quote you had to appeal to white sensitivity to get things move through Congress because what we can have any congressman wouldn't have that type of representation to make things happen. So Dr. King had to form alliances with people who were not black to get things done. For those cold" alliances with unfortunately cold."

But fortunately they were with liberal white America. There were the ones standing alone on the Edmund Pettis Bridge there with Dr. King and others I may not act as my conservative friends all the time. How many of you had family, friends, church members that went down and stood on that bridge docking or spoke up publicly during that time, and the vast majority my conservative friends can't can't speak to the affirmative and is not that they thought black people should just be second-class citizens on and so forth. But in terms of publicly standing and doing what was necessary politically and socially to communicate that unfortunately the white cold" conservative church was missing en masse during that period of time and that started that soldering between black believers and the Democrat party. So there were certain values than to say these are important for us but right now the most important things this were just treated as human beings in America and given some sense of equality so just like I may vote Republican but I have issues with other things in the party correct abortion assertion nonnegotiable for me that I can't think of voting for any other candidate. If they're not pro-life, so there were nonnegotiable values.

There within form this relationship between black Americans and the Democratic Party district and even from that vantage point is like the typical white person doesn't have to deal with that type of mental tension, whereas within a particular party. The majority of black Christians do not per se support you know killing a child killing it would because again is not a fetus in the womb bulbs were believers with a child in the conception is when life begins, not when a mother decides it. That's we believe to be the solid Christian experience, so the typical white boulder is not having to make up a political decision that also has a cold" identity attached to it.

A typical black person who's trying to vote their convictions. We offer you also have to think about our blackness as were casting that vote and the typical white person doesn't have to have that experience God so even in your your own life history and upbringing right is three getting a job or have an opening in the business sense something like that. It was those who did that not hard Blacks there before, what were you thinking when when you were going through this, what, when I worked for a very large bank in the south of tremendous opportunity what was in tremendous people, black, white, Hispanic colleagues, tremendous colleagues, but those tremendous colleagues did not affect and or create the culture of that bank.

For example, nobody told me that I needed to wear black.

I need to have a black suit, navy blue suit, a gray suit.

No loud ties, solid ties, no black, navy blue, etc. that was the prevailing culture. No one came to me and told me to do that. I saw what everybody else was doing so I realized this with the culture of this environment okay so I need to follow suit in order to be successful in accepting the culture.

So from that standpoint the prevailing culture was.

There were no black people in high level executive positions.

There was no black people in high-level decision-making oppositions. There were no black people is the sweet positions etc. so that even at my position at the bank when I started there were no other black man in that position. So I had to start making decisions about what that looked like for me and so I think I can share a little bit more about their comeback friends. These are the conversations we need to have in our churches, but you can join in and question. The question I guess Marcus Benjamin 866-34-TRUTH will be right back to the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown Brown with my special guest in studio with me, Marcus, Benjamin of business and ministry leader and were having a black-and-white conversation were were were trying to talk things through this. I hope we can do in the workplace in our churches and our communities to understand one another's perspectives. We still may differ at the end of the day, but at least we understand where people are coming from. So so Marcus was mentioning all all my life. Work history.

I'm conscious of being a believer, a messianic Jew because in no small minority there and get rejected but I'm not thinking if I have this job. Housing in effect of whites after me I was never once occurred to me, but is is you were coming up in the corporate world.

You were the first right to have certain doors open for you so you want to sing about yourself, though, what was going on was your mentality. I was thinking about the other black males specifically and black people in general who would come behind me, or have the potential to come behind me and how my pattern of success, attainment, etc. productivity would create opportunities for them or hinder opportunities for them. That was a daily consciousness, to the extent that in the morning. I believe as a believer I should pray for my company is to pray for success. Pray for its bits, its blessing and benefit because while I'm working there, but I also prayed that God would help me be a great example for him and a great example of being a black person in this particular bank right so again that's something I doubt other other white believers might relate to the believer. Part owner Sean is a believer only make this look good for the believers. There would be think you want to make this cooler, further good for the whites is just nothing we dealt with right kind of air equipment.

I find this money, I tell people all the time.

The statement is in of the most segregated hour of the week is Sunday morning at 10 or 11 o'clock. I disagree with it to ball is on the most segregated hour in America is a Monday morning in financial services is the most accurate you want to find out segregation you want to see no black people. You start you want a financial services investment advisory large-scale capital markets institutional banking etc. your it when you see a black person is almost like oh wow I mean you get so excited because you can go months and never see someone will bless the Lord, you live. This is where I lived.

And you can go months and never see someone who looks like God writes again. It's so important that we understand one another's life experiences and and this is something that helps give insight into the corporate feeling white Americans, 10 Americans in general are very individualistic comparison of the parts ruler to the biblical mentality very tribal very corporate in the Middle East still very tribal very corporate Americans are some of the most individualistic people in the world and he gives us that candy mentality. I can do anything's possible. The land of opportunities is Lotta good with that. But then there's the corporate the family that the the tribal mentality were you thinking more the group that seems to be that black Americans would have more of that corporate feeling that many white Americans can just a cultural thing, and that some of what you're speaking to is correcting them. Is that true with our broader cultural history get on the causes of Africa but also in America that if we did not bind together. If we did not build our own ecosystems and communities through Psalm to spirituality through faith through: quote: switching, etc. then we would not survive.

To the extent that we did because there were so many things even know black cams, etc. many of them were songs that were sung to help get us to certain places so that we can understand what freedom look like so and so forth. So we had to have that cultural dynamic or we would not have survived the way that we did, which was challenging and difficult, but imagine that with a purely individualistic perspective, it would've been even more damaging for us from approximately 1635 until you know 1865. So in all my life working presence of of America.

Some voters have white men except for Pres. Obama never once dawned on the oh I'm glad there's a white man in the White House always so good to see a white man in the white was so gratifying to finally see a white man in the White House. The thought out. For obvious reasons. Right. That's always had Greg never occurred to me, nor is it a value, I want a white man in the White House it's it's immature on the right person. White House feel is a black American for the first time to have a black man in the White House for quite honestly I want to speak to my children first because when Pres. Obama or former Pres. Obama became president inauguration. We know about the numbers to scope the size and the cultural impact and so forth. What's a look at my children, my son is 21 now my daughter is 19. They were in. My son was in stuffing sixth-grader so you know when the when the inauguration at my daughter was in fourth fifth grade somewhere there but to sit there. My wife and I were on the chair to the right television was to the front. They were on the floor and to see how they were watching television. On Monday we were not raising our children and at that point in a purely ethnic pro-black context. We believe they were black people are cheap children knew they were black. They knew they had brown they knew they had melon in their skin so and so forth. But in terms of talking about racism at a very high level, etc. we did not do that at that point, and I'm using that context because when they were watching television.

As a dad and a mom. It was more about what they were singing than what we were experiencing the gleam in their eyes. The excitement in their tone of voice look bad look mom so and so forth. So for number one.

That was my first experience that was my greatest experience. The second part was personally knowing what my father didn't have access to my grandfather could not go to school when before two years of my grandmother passed away. My grandfather told me you know Marcus, I would've loved to have the obstacles to which that what you mean. He was like they would let me go to school now to think about it this is my grandmother talked me to get with Hathaway they would not let me go to school now. In that context was he saying is that the focus was agriculture and farming life and even though it was, not slavery, but it was still Jim Crow South PSP's primary responsibility was to attend the farm that he was courting quote employed on not getting educated, not getting a broader perspective of society, not engaging hope and dreams. Respirations. So thinking about my grandfather and then my father in there now me sitting here watching this then I had that benefit of as a black male, whether I agree with all of you know, present Obama's policies and perspectives were not was an issue it was that there is an articulate, smart, intelligent, handsome, black family in the White House and that was a primary reason why tens of millions of black people celebrated even updating agree with everything Obama did or what he believed politically right so I actually did something that could've easily been misunderstood, but I had enough obvious sense to realize how big a day. This was of course I voted against Obama didn't matter who was running I was working against him because of the policies that were fundamental to me, that are nonnegotiable at the same time, I realized that this was a day of significance and would bring tremendous pride. So I ask callers. I asked my callers the stay means you, you know why I wanted them to have the ability on my show articulate its articulate them to celebrate that as much as I had profound differences right and in NI I know just with your beliefs that you would've had profound differences on on on key issues with everyone discussing your personal focus on the issue, but again without this perspective process is very recent right right leg is a 64 that's pretty racist. I was nine years old.

It's when the Beatles came to America right that is pretty recent, but this is very reason.

This is 2008 right so this is still the world in which we live. And obviously we can emphasize race in an unhealthy way right and I found the opposite with you. Your kingdom of God kingdom of God kingdom of God.

Now let's work that out in every area of life. But without this understanding worships passing each other in the night. There were some a brother called me once and it was right after another. Death the hands of police produce a justified or not it was opened up a new wound in the community. This dosage I go to the big white church thoroughly few Blacks there, but there's never ever any mention of any of this or just say we want to pray for a bike for this assessment also challenging whatever and I said what what you want us to do beyond talk about suggest that sponsored knowledge knowledge and acknowledge it and that's what we often miss each other right one flake clip but time is time sure what would do it. On the other side of the break you.

You texted me about abortion and racism. What you say in that text I made a statement that if black people, black leaders, specifically black believers who are leaders, passes, etc. what would have an honest, candid, apologetic about abortion and of white conservatives would have an honest, candid, apologetic about racism.

It's quite possible that we could lead in a revival in America. If we stopped allowing the secular to drive these narratives and that the black church and the white church which sincerely unapologetically look at these issues historically and theologically rather than simply taking the political sides that have been established forth. We should be. We should have been the leaders, but unfortunately you know, we have not and so we are typically responding to society were responding to the Democrat party platform responding to the Republican Party platform were responding to you know Planned Parenthood over responding to you know now Supreme Court justices being confirmed, not confirmed. So my point is where we are.

We are responding to these things as opposed to leading in the conversation and you can lead Eileen our conversation right now is a expression of leadership I'm actively listening to you to understand your actively listening to me to understand that is not what happens in America and quite honestly on Mike is not happening with with believers correct.

So how can we expect all of this revival that most pastors are preaching about to actually occur in America if the if the most the most important issue courting quote to a white conservative right now is what is abortion the most important issue right now to a black believer is racism and knit and neither party is having a conversation with each other about this but yet were still praying and preaching about revival impossible and impassable.

This is the word so all things are possible with God and really look to him for help and grace to move us forward Mary to say this if any of you are in any way offended by anything you're saying.

That's good news will push this when I try to be offensive, but there are controversies were talking through together and and there's going to be much more light than he 866-34-TRUTH can take some calls as well stay right here will be right back black and white about working together as believers to advance the kingdom of God, which means learning from each other, which means understanding when those perspectives whether we agree or not it is is something that we really need to do to take time to do. My apologies to our Hispanic listeners for Asian American listeners Native American listeners others to say where do we fit the conversation will we all fit in different place.

This is how we sell. We model it take some calls and will also feel free to weigh in. I know that there be comments on our social media weighing in, but this a great time for you to have a conversation. 28663487884 as I sit with business entrepreneur leadership speaker and minister Marcus Benjamin one flake clip for you. You've heard it before. This is my show, but I won't play this clip.

This is from Pastor Greg Locke and he's very expressive, ensuring with the wit when he shares here. I have asked believers. The question, how can you look Jesus in the eye and say vote for Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden when they're so pro-abortion and pro-homosexual activist, etc. and said if you cancel per trip. I get that. But how can you vote your love those.

My question but I said I do know there are believers who vote differently.

I understand that. So he says it in in his way and he's not necessarily to clarify my show talking like a local board election or somebody might be different. Her Republican but the national policies. This we had to say place right now. You will Democrat heavily mulch around his shirt didn't get out to demon to baby butchering election fee.

You cannot make you get to stop as you will do… Maybe you will get my microphone up at his house… You cannot you cannot stop me out out again right now? Has a particular style and on the year.

He said he could wrestle between the angry profit and the pastoral Shepherd and try to work those things wrong. We'll talk different style preaching anything like that. He also made, smart Republicans heard him speak clip in front of the White House or for the Supreme Court reset. Our problem is not in the White House it's in God's house in both of the parties are corrupt, so injuries qualified certain things as you hear that sharing all of the values about what's wrong with the Democratic Party you feel will I will say first and foremost that his comments were ridiculous and I'll say that unprecedented and ridiculous one as imaginal your show at a certain time ago.

I get big a few days ago for a week or so, whenever that was. He endeavored to clarify that context so and so forth. But the moment you invoke the name of Jesus talking about politics from the platform.

The moment dear using church language, say a man which means a confirmation so be it.

I agree and you're doing that from a platform of grace and truth. The Bible says the law came by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. So grace it doesn't ignore the truth. It provides context for truth.

I just could not believe that he was not repudiated by more people so applauding you for stepping out to sing the things that you say it is best regarding the insurrection the comments that he made that could be very inflammatory, especially considering what had just recently happened in Buffalo. Then of course I guess a few what a week. A couple of the last 2 to 3 weeks of shootings in America right the last thing someone a preacher should be standing up on the pulpit saying it's something that would give people like that a license and greater conviction to go out and do what they do, even if they're not quote unquote doing directly what he said he still in the instigating then this was another point. Could a black preacher stand up and say that and not be crucified by every media outlet in America and I'm not sure if that if a black preacher said that something you back to let Satan I'm not sure when it was so what you know so certain that only dated but you know Pastor Jeremiah Wright made a statement you know who was uniform. Pres. Obama's not got. I was America got cursive yes you know that type of thing. We all know what.what the cultural, social, crucified him for the lack of a better phrase statement that came from nearly every corner of the country and I'm not saying that it was right for that type of ready to go for it, but I'm safely making the point that is this statement less inflammatory than that would because when you think about that type of statement, the rhetoric, the coding quote what we call in today's world, sing it, which it shares. I'm he said that with his chest that was in an intellectually leave craft this you know know he said that with his chest and I just as I heard it I just could not believe the overwhelming even you mentioning on your show a few weeks ago or a few days ago. The overwhelming support that he had for the statements that he was making and according to him, you know, if I voted Democrat, demon, there is no other way context when he endeavored to try to provide some different context.

When you have a conversation, but he didn't say he didn't specify as he said on the show will see it in columns and these people different people. He said if you vote Democrat you're a demon hot. How do you how do you then try to articulate in backers of out of it and there'll be people were probably more upset with some the things I feel your show right now the nerves that was what he said and these are believers. These are people who go to church every week, which gets me to my point, and certainly get your feedback on it is my personal relationship with God should be the basis of my apologetic my personal vision with God.

I am I am to me as I've preached.

I've been a pastor. I've led pastors affect tremendous conversations all across the country and the prevailing narrative is true at all with how many people have at least read the New Testament from Matthew to Revelation.

In the last two years.

We know the answer that question less than 10% of Christians have read the New Testament from Matt below the New Testament and these are and as Christians were speaking authoritatively about what God's will in mind. Perspective is and would not even studying what he wrote so what qualification do I have to interpret another person's perspective when I'm not even invested in the perspective of the person that I called Lord, are exceptional to school here then try to try to open the something so from my perspective right. I believe justice is important.

I believe Ken for the poor is important, believe these are issues, but I end up just with these overwhelming social issues to me that are nonnegotiable. So the preservation of life beginning the room than the family unit.

So those are big things were someone stand on on gay activism is going to play beaten necklace and focus on grace because the larger social agenda how to fix American film always start with abortion, then as I break things down even see Mike standing with Israel, not against Palestinians, but recognizing Israel's right to exist standing with Israel. With the Democrats mother on the north side of everything I did, I did eight and I'm a registered independent, just as matter of conscience that I don't identify with a political party and I voted Republican for years.

I don't certain let's mount just my personal conscience, the right okay so I I did this thing online Monday and it's and I answered like a whole bunch of questions as to know where I should vote.

I was curious to see we came out and came out 100% Republican 0% Democrat sold. I could say okay look this issue is important this issue is important this issue is important and Democrats are wrong on that so I don't see when safely Pastor Locke said, but I don't see how you can love the Lord is our Democrat. What we had the presidential level presidential Congress level those you know that the major decision-making. Okay, I however that that's my perspective, which I'm sharing honestly I don't judge someone's walk with the Lord that differs member what would you say to white evangelicals that we are completely missing the point of missing God's heart missing values important to him were thinking were champions for the Bible champions for God. We don't see our own blind spots. That's an entire of our broadcast by itself. But here's what I would use my personal experience of at least get up prior to 2008. My wife and I participated and were invited to participate in many conservative Republican political think tanks, conversations, dinners, you know how that works nearly every year that I was an adult when it was at least seen or perceived that this guy is a black conservative right guy for you enough in common, conventional, professional, investment advisor, a disguise doing well so and so forth.

So we were advised those conversations those meetings, etc. every month were getting emails. This is coming up marketing will see you here etc. etc. phone calls etc. etc. this was happening literally from 2003 four up until note 2001 to start my banking career up until 2007 okay and I remember had. We were at a particular event conservative Republican event, etc. breakout tables conversation and I brought up race.

I brought up the conversation is you know out of all that we've discussed is there a plank. Is there a perspective is there some type of initiation action, etc. what is our collective approach toward race, racism, white supremacy. This is big and have this conversation.

How do we so on so forth, and the conversation was very cheap, very chippy, etc. my wife and I were there had conversation we should opposition so and so forth.

From that day the end of that conference to the present.

My wife and I have never received another email invitation now I let listeners decide what made that decision. So if I was considered a conservative court" because of my perspective and I believe God's perspective on abortion, but the moment I bring up race and racism in America as a conservative or a perceived conservative at that point off all email lists off all phone blasts.

I never got invited again until Bishop Harry Jackson, who I knew personally called me on the phone during the 2016 presidential election. There was a gathering at with University Marco Rubio old songs over dispute came to Mark's number two in the room, Ben Carson, so I was in the room.

I was at the dinner but that was only because Bishop Jackson knew me personally and we had many personal conversations in the markets you need to be back in the room if it unfortunate. He's on a longer live comes into making a point dumped typical believer who is black and aware of his or her blackness and understanding that position America as a Christian our attention at the polls is not the same as a conservative white and I am unapologetic about that and so frost is not as black-and-white, pun intended. Right as saying okay abortion know one thing about abortion and I'm thinking about my black son: my wife and I have have a conversation with about how he needs the responsible police officer to make sure he comes home alive. So then we can then do legally if something needed to be needed to happen. Legally we have to have that conversation.

The typical white conservative doesn't deal with it. A couple typical black person we have to do not let me clear back will get some calls as well stay right here is the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown. I want to go to the phones and then dive back into some key questions I have.

My guess, Marcus, Benjamin, Jacqueline, in Greenville, South Carolina. Thanks for calling the line of fire. Thanks for holding on the air doing very well. Thanks. Thank you for your time and I really enjoy and on driving really on me that anyone lie on. I currently understand that you have no quality is about racist men and the African Americans in America a lot really that I wonder when are we going to look towards the future when oregano stopped working the path and I am truly sorry for everything that your grandfather father laboring your family whenever they felt sorry for that and I apologize or ask forgiveness for something that I did not do and I truly think all of all constantly about racism is taking at the far instead of pulling the cancer and I am great anyone at my brother and drink by I'll let everyone I don't see color that I think you one more thing on the dieting. I believe your credit, you would not that Democrat because I would not migrate with the light at the word just just jump in all only so I can make sure that Marcus can respond.

Could you set a whole bunch there.

I'm sure he speak for a lot of other listeners as well check and so thank you: for he referred for cutting off I just want make sure that I will Marcus to responsible good.

Thank you, thank you for your call so respond from your heart to that. I appreciate your perspective and I believe her perspective is consistent with a lot of well-meaning Christians. White, etc. in America several stores.

I could tell her to contextualize that I can tell the story of a former banker who did know that his stepfather was a member of the KKK who I sat down in his office and he apologized to me because he didn't find out that the hood in his stepfather's closet was actually a hood that was of the Ku Klux Klan. He found that we went to college and he was ignorant because his parents told him a different story is is that his stepfather was a volunteer, serving and helping the police force. That's the story he was told until he went to college I found out about the Ku Klux Klan and he said now I said I is off the apologize to me, Marcus. You can apologize. You can correct what you did and what you didn't know I say but there are many well-meaning whites who have been told a wrong narrative about things that factually happened that affected people like me take that apology and articulate that to your fellow brothers and sisters, that would be a start at an individual level, we can go to Wells Fargo CEO a few years ago who said on a corporate call with thousands of employees across the country, we can find qualified black candidates for executive positions. Wow on the phone. Thousands of black men and women with MBAs, executive MBAs, high-level education or stock and lower-level positions be better belief, their level of qualification while the CEO of one the largest banks in the country is saying we can't find quality of qualified black candidates for executive level and or upper management roles.

We can go to Kelly King at BB&T now truest who sat down with the Journal back in 2020 and saying we did our own independent internal investigation and found out that not only is the history of our bank tied to slavery, but we've had disparate practices within our culture that hindered black people from advancing and excelling a mind you I was an employee of the company bringing some of those things out back in 2004. My point is simply this, an individual can be against racism and low of every body image up and say this, we need to see color because color one is God's creation to has ethnic distinctions and benefits and blessings that we should celebrate and acknowledge and even though every culture is all issues we need to realize that God wants us to see color because the trade-off that went so we see it in diversity when our sister met with you this and see it in a prejudicial way she sees everyone is equal in the Lord. But there is the diversity and just like a man's different than a woman right we should see that right right right so let me say this in and check in.

Thank you for calling. Thank you. It's it's important to her that perspective it really is so to me it's never struck me to apologize, especially with with my parents and my mother coming from England this an orphan.

My my dad's parents coming over from Russia turned the last century so it's not you know an Indian Jewish-American it everything feels different but to me the issue is how has the past affected the present set up on that and I like yeah that's you think the fact that your kids who did not grow up in a home or race was talked about a lot had that feeling. See Barack Obama inaugurated right.

The fact that you have to have the conversation with your son here.

You're a successful man.

I'm sure you don't live in a rundown neighborhood.

They know right and still you feel that you have to have the conversation with your son just because racial profiling is the amount of what whatever the issues are my personal experience with police officer will have some great expanse of police officers that has some horrible ones as well.

Thinking about in the last year and 1/2. I'm here flying out of I fly before coated.

I was on a plane once a week flying across the country doing consulting so I'm always at TSA I'm always there. I'm flying first class. I'm that morning. I got on my Jordan hoodie I got my Jordan sweatpants when I got my Georgie was on.

I'm walking to TSA putting us in a few hundred dollars in my pocket able elderly elderly. Maybe close to 60 white gentlemen stop that guy. He stole my money stop that black guy right there. He stole my money TSA decisions on serious this is a year and 1/2 ago at Charlotte Douglas Airport okay I I was flying, sitting next to a super well-dressed black bishop about two years ago from a short flight from Phoenix to California were both on the critic as a fly so much. He's in first class. As we get to talking research about race issues and write blind spots. Things like that. He said you know I dress like this. He said because if I don't dress like this. I don't get treated properly in first class.

I sent today wonder what you doing first class this a joke, there's a good friend of mine we we flew from first class to flout the Arizona meta-business meeting and he I was a little bit more.

I was race more business casual. He was in his hoodie. He is a Raiders fan that is Raiders hoodie only got his Raiders had on so and so forth, and he and he's about 63.

You know, maybe 245 to 52 is a bigger got an acid brown listen is my brother he's reminiscing right now is a broad listen :-) man is beautiful :-) do you not notice how people are staring at us in mind. We were walking through the airport in well in a particular city walk to the airport and we are literally being about 630 in morning stared at like who are these people. This is in a major airport in America in 2019.

The plummeted remake is an individual experience and an individual commitment to low I've got some amazing white but I mean I'm amazing we love them babe in our house. We stayed with them. They stay with us amazing so this is not me not liking white people. None of those relationships cause me to devoid myself of my personal experience my love for God and my experience as a black man in America. The reason why those relationships are strong as they are is because those white friends of mine acknowledge that Marcus man we never had to deal with it. We we don't have to have those conversations. I'm sitting so will what this was his conversation. Number one, and then will goblet with your conversation with you to unpack the text you sent to me about how the white church can help the black church have a solid apologetic about abortion. God's heart for that the black church of the white church have a better understanding apologetic about righteousness and racism we can work together on flying first class when they sit next to a black man whose a big guy and he looks kind of muscular he's got big hands some thinking must be a football for this what I'm thinking to myself is big army just like I that's I would've thought that but especially kissing first class right we get to chatting. He's University Chancellor and he says to me says this is the funny thing is if you see me in first class you think of your first full player or else it can be a rapper that is like. I was wondering if you so so anyway all is to say the issue is the present right how the past affects the present Margie with anti-Semitism, church history essay.

Here's what you need to address it. If the seed is still there right or if the effects of the past are still felt in the present. Correct with the exact same thing here is not about all we need to apologize to get up there. I'm not a player hasn't dawned on me in our talk I need to apologize to you for anything correct right but the fact that here you are a successful black man entrepreneur leadership speaker you have a whole list of people you stared the state was always in that year's history or life experience you're going through this, or the inequality in the job market.

Various things like okay so we still have work to do. Let's be sensitive to and you're not advocating voting Democrat either. No, not on I'm advocating for believers. If I stay this way. The simplest way I can say it your faith. If a true believer doesn't contradict their party at some point in time there is a problem because the Republican Party has great pieces to it. The Democrat party does have some solid pieces to it, but I never disagree and if not if my personal convictions are always lockstep with the Republican plank or a Democrat plank so we were we saying about the authority of God's word that that God's word has now been completely distilled within a Republican or Democrat context.

I've got significant problems with it or leave it here waiting on the comment section on YouTube, Facebook, gobbling you apart, to hopefully model some ways to have a healthy candidate conversation.

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