Dr. Brown Takes Up Your Challenges

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network like to sit down with me face-to-face and tell me where you have some differences but will do it today for the line of fire with your host activist all the international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown was the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of Ministry get into the line of fire valves by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

That's 866-34-TRUTH your again is Dr. Michael Brown plucking friends to the line of fire broadcast. This is Michael Brown okay so were not fully face-to-face and I'm not sitting in the same room with you and your say hey Mike I differ with you on this real Dr. Brown I will see it on either or not quite there by through social media miracles on a miracle.

But the amazing world we live in with Internet radio and all this we can almost be face-to-face. So if you're driving your car and sit there chatting with you if you're sitting home watching you computer on your cell phone where risk was face-to-face as we can be these days. And hey, we don't need to wear masks right so this works what I'm doing today. I'm not taking live calls I'm not catching up on live news that means something earth shattering could be happening all around us, not can address it. Instead dealing with questions that were posted on Facebook, twitter, was simply estate. Tell me where you differ with me not know just asked me a question tell me what you differ with me biblically and theologically, culturally, and what I want to do is is dig into some of these questions and and see why you feel the way you do what you lay that out. I'll explain Michael the way I do it and hopefully this could be a good learning experience for muscle tone caressing the Facebook and Twitter. Now Ira ready solicited the questions and and then answered them before. This is airing live so let's see were start with Margaret over on Facebook, and Margaret S. This what is your opinion of a large church that refuses to let anyone take on a leadership role unless they speak in tongues. My feeling is that is 100% their prerogative. There may be other churches that say you cannot be in leadership if you do speak in tongues. Of course I differ with that position on every level, but any church can set whatever policy it sees right and fit for leaders.

For example, if you are going to a Baptist Church small or large and you do not believe in believer baptism only believe that infants should be baptized and you want to be in a leadership role that your casino we have a fundamental difference here. Conversely, if you were going to Presbyterian Church and you did not believe in infant baptism and wanted to be raised up in leadership they can say sorry when I'm in harmony. There so any church can have that position this about what's the reason for this reason would be the belief that in order to be in leadership. You must be empowered with the Holy Spirit.

You must have received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and that they would believe that the evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The first initial evidence will be speaking in tongues. Therefore, if you don't speak in tongues you have not been supernaturally empowered by the spirit your say the Holy Spirit dwells in you, but you have not been empowered, immersed, baptized in the spirit and therefore you cannot effectively serve in leadership and leisure were baptized in the spirit because all leadership requires the Spirit's anointing in that way. So I've no problem whatsoever for leadership, holding that standard, I would question if speaking in tongues is the only way to know that someone has been baptized in the spirit I would say that there could be evidence in someone's life that they have been supernaturally empowered by the spirit baptized in the spirit gifted by the spirit even though they don't speak in tongues.

I believe they could speak in tongues, but even if they haven't that I would see things a little differently. There, but I fully understand where they're coming from and I respect them and having that viewpoint. For the reasons just given, but here, let's remember there's a difference between attending a church and being a deeper covenantal member. As you can show up on a Sunday and then not show up for a month then shop for three straight weeks natural for six months and never give a dime to the church and you drink a lot more you can do that. Nobody stopping you the respondent requirement on if you say not really want to come into covenantal fellowship with the body. Here I want to be you color members that were declared to be a member surely needs.

We generally born-again and in the church considered to be a member were asking for a higher level of commitment and and and were asking Peter to support the ministry financially and we are pledging to pour ourselves into you. In this way in this when this when this when be a community for you. There was a church can set what levels of membership requires and then leadership is a whole other level. So I've been a problem with it whatsoever. For those reasons, although I would simply say I would rather look for evidence that someone has been filled with the spirit, baptized in spirit and powerless. Even if they don't speak in tongues rather than excluded just on that level okay Mick witnesses say in Scripture and in context that God poured his wrath out on Jesus on the cross. Witnesses say in Scripture that God poured his wrath out on Jesus on the cross. Number one, my emphasis is that Jesus took our place that he died instead of us that we were guilty. He died we broke God's commandments. He suffered the penalty. That's why he dies a criminal's death because he is paying for our sins right. He is a ransom for since this language uses in Mark 10 was he ransoming us from Satan. No use paying the penalty for our sin. So let's take a look in Isaiah.

The 53rd chapter Isaiah chapter 53 and hang on that we get the right chapter of here… Read this through. It says beginning in verse three he was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering and familiar with pain like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised. We held him in low esteem. Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted. Those we saw that God was punishing him because he was guilty but he was pierced for our transgressions are because of our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities. The punishment that brought us peace was on him and by his wounds we are healed but so notice that source lamented that the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, so he suffering in our place.

He suffering divine punishment in our place. We all, like sheep have gone astray, each of us is turned to her own way and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. So God lays on him all of our iniquity. All of our sin that's explicit in the punishment that brought us peace is on him now, let's let's get down to verse nine he was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence there was any deceit in his mouth.

It was the Lord's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin, he will see offspring and prolong his days in the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand after he has suffered.

He will see the light pursue light if I can be satisfied by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities. Therefore, God says, I give him a portion among the great divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life, death, and was numbered with the transgressors. We bore the sin of many, made intercession for the transgressors.

So you see we had a different translation for those who are watching. I was reading from the NIV. We had the new JPS version on the screen with the Hebrew to see some variance along the way. But what's clear it is that God was pleased to crush him that's there in the language God was pleased to cause him to suffer because they literally make him sick or just understand as often in Hebrew sicknesses is a metaphor of suffering and pain. So God brought that on them. God put our sin on him and then put our punishment on them the punishment that brought us peace is his. So it doesn't explicitly say wrath. There, but it speaks of punishment. It speaks of the Lord crushing him.

It speaks of him taking our place so that single passage. Isaiah 53 would be the strongest of all, what what's what's interesting is that when I debated Pastor Brian's on this some years ago in 2014 in Kansas City effect September 2014. In most call the monster daughter monster man debate, PE is Isaiah 53 is difficult was not difficult as explicit. It's only difficult if you don't hold to that theology and you can take any theology beyond what Scripture says and paint all kinds of pictures beyond the Scripture says, but this response to fundamentally remember the whole sacrificial system. The, the innocent victim took the judgment that should've come on the on that the person who sense of the sacrifices offered up with repentance and that sacrifice dies, the way you should have died in that dying is a judgment. Hence, a divine judgment.

So did Jesus take our place on the cross.

Yes, Jesus died for sins. Yes, the carrier sins and a shoulder just did he pay the penalty was the penalty for our sin put on him. Yes, absolutely.

That would be the essence of substitutionary atonement and while it doesn't explicitly say wrath. There are other passages you can argue that this most explicit very plain that he pay for sins and took our punishment on the cross is explicit. It's the only straight wait really true to read the text.

Let's see here are a few thanking me and not enough to differ on all right.

Let's look at this from Rick as it's acquits a question. All right say what's because I started I'll answer it, but I'm really only looking for differences here should abortion be abolished and criminalize state-by-state defiance of 48 years of evil Supreme Court opinions. Did you know the 10 states had righteous bills revolution this year. But, of course, every state should be working to abolish abortion. Of course, and in every city.

We should be working hard to win the lost, to make disciples to raise consciousness of righteousness of the change hearts and not just laws to reach out to two women struggling that think the only alternative is to have abortion to give them alternatives and to really be there in a loving and compassionate way or read the article that I wrote some inconvenient truths about abortion. Some inconvenient truths about abortion. According to the latest Planned Parenthood report Westerner Donald Trump seven 2019 before the 2020 year that they they set records for numbers of abortions performed an amounts of federal funding sucrose girl Joe Biden is a baby killer well the city in the White House doesn't kill babies. It's it's abortion clinics that kill babies and with consent of parents of the mothers so that's where we need to be reaching out more than anywhere into the local clinics the local cities and I give a recommendation to go to love life.org love life.org you can see what you're doing city by city, and whatever you can do statewide to pass bills short now building a challenge federal court and the goal is to get them to the Supreme Court with Supreme Court could then back them and ultimately have a recent overturn Roe V Wade Woodson pushes back to the states anyway. So yes, of course, whatever can be done. The heartbeat bill different things.

Whatever can be done state-by-state do it even more importantly, life by life by heart is bring about change all right we will be right back there some really fascinating questions have been asked Jacqueline file light a fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the reminder flyer now by calling 866-34-TRUTH again is Dr. Michael Brown, welcome back friends to light a fire broadcast Michael Brown was on into challenges questions that I am asked on social media and elsewhere, is not taking calls today, but we got some really neat challenges were to dig and some from traditional Jews, some from people who hold to different views claim to be Christian, but I would say are not. So what will look at some of these challenges, some having to do with different views on Israel and where you start start on Facebook with Jonathan and Jonathan says is Jesus, the one true God.

If he is God. If you say he is God.

They must be.

I say the father is the only true God. John 17 three now you think you're right about Jesus being God.

Jonathan I guess you didn't see my debate with Dr. Dale Tuckey where we got into this passage at great length, so I have a question for you is the father also Lord is the only God or is he also Lord's are of course he's Lord why on June 1 chapter of the one chapter in Jude. It says that Jesus is the only true Lord and prescriptions. Eight. It's as we have one Lord Jesus, does that mean that the father is not Lord designing all the times is called Lord of the Old Testament is a really Lord.

Is it really mean that seriously. Honestly, not so when it says in Jude 1 that Jesus is the only true Lord.

It means as opposed to other false lords and and and other false Masters that claim spiritual authority for the claim divine status known no of course not. They're not really lords at all prescriptions.

Eight.

There is only one true Lord Jesus, assessing the father is not Lord or second Corinthians 3.

The spirit is Lord is not denying that the spirit is Lord he same computer as opposing does not know only Jesus is the same thing with John 17. Your logic is what undermines your whole argument and again this this is really self-evident that Jesus praying to his father sent the father is the only true God is true. All the other Excel call God's are false every idle, every ancient deity. There are false gods.

Ball became Walsh be a start date. Be sure beat Zeus be it a positive whoever they're all false gods is only one true God and he sprang to his father who is going to.but Jesus is ready told us is ready told us in John 10 I and the father are one is ready told us in John 14 John 14 he's ready told us that the father's and him and he's in the father so he's included in that one true God. He sprang to his father's only true God is on site by the way, that excludes me because he's one of his father and what you do with the fact that in the very same prayer couple verses later, he talks about the glory that he and the father enjoyed before the world began with that is not the preexistent son of God.

There and hang on.

We know explicitly that the word that becomes flesh in John 11 is God is the office using their multiple gods that the father is the true God and what Jesus is like an extra got a false God, no, no that that text absolutely does not prove or John are you absolutely categorically false. Very very fun. I appreciate you asking it, but being that that one does not does not do it. Let's go down to the school oyster Malloy-ish assumedly a false name and answer Jewish objections, volume 5, you provide over 30 pages trying to show how we can determine what work means on the Sabbath.

Nonpaged 131 you do not provide the answers and only Hebrew Scriptures. How can we know what work is to know to avoid it on the Sabbath, yet really it's a very simple question. So first we know it's not with the rabbis later taught.

We know that for fact why because God says twice in Deuteronomy.

Do not add to the commandments, do not answer commandments and there is no evidence of any kind, shape, size or form that for ancient Israelite that the idea of of brushing her hair with a hard brush is work but a soft brush is not work or or putting a tissue in your pocket on the way, said Dr. Jim Cole is carrying and that's work these things urban, utterly unheard of and there's not there's zero evidence whatsoever zero evidence for any of these things being practiced in the days of the Tanakh zero. I can guarantee you if if Moses was shown all the laws on the Sabbath's question. We where in the world did you get this from you have the time of the account where Moses is this transported here's Rabbi Akiva getting insights from the tour that Moses never learns like really getting this from usually given the Torah and got some encouraging to Moses, but that's a tacit admission of the fact that all the stuff is new and added on the 39 subdivisions of labor and so on. This just all later traditions and weaving over the Dead Sea Scrolls specially for two MMT. We know there the debate about Sabbath in different toxic things and and arguments from some of the other documents Sabbath documents and things like that. There is dispute about what was practiced was in practice because these were developing traditions, so it's really simple.

There are basic aspects of work that are part of our vocation member ancient Israel particular permitting agrarian society. There are certain things that were understood to be work in the normal day just like I say you go to war with what you've work right things that are self-evident.

It wasn't a question of if I pick up a pen.

Is that what you know was thinking that if I write two letters is that work okay I can do 100 push-ups, that's not work but if I carry this outside it is right those thoughts run, but his mind, how do we know it because when their cases that came up like a man, gathering sticks on the Sabbath right out.

He shouldn't do. That's is at work. Will they want to Moses, and Moses went to Gawain Eagle guy because he didn't have all the information then that was reinforced so you had the basic understanding and simplicity, not asking the million and one halachic rabbinic questions. The basic simplicity of what work was just like don't work on the Sabbath. This latest work okay where the slave normally during up to do that on the seven were you doing Norman you worked okay. You don't do that on the Sabbath the priest in the temple would continue to work because of their there is service on to God, but otherwise the things you normally do that are part of work.

Notice is for the most part, not complex.

As you start thinking in the light of later rabbinic tradition in which case of a thousand questions that when that existed in ancient world.

If something came up that wasn't clear.

There is the leaders of the leaders were clear that has Moses and his Moses didn't have every detail there is no oral tradition given to him. He went to God and got your but it wasn't submitted came up all that much because of having a negative carrying Jeremiah 17 is not a matter once again of if I pick up a pen in my carry was I was told when I was with Bob which to see them and in in the fall of October 1975 spring Yom Kippur with them and in those days is to suffer from hayfever and I took some tissues with meter to walk across to the synagogue and he said oh no you can't. You can carry. That's carrying that's carrying it. You can carry when you get over to the synagogue will be pre-repetitious in the bathroom seat you can tear know that has zero view of Scripture.

People may be very sincere in their devotion and this may be very meaningful to them in their own lives. I'm not denying that it has value and beauty in life. A traditional juleps of the same. These are added traditions that rapidly never God's heart or mind or intent. That's why Jesus reduces things to simplicity when it comes to the Sabbath when he teaches on so there is elegant or lengthy explanations. This is not supposed to be a lengthy explanation for the most part it's self-evidently look at Jeremiah 17 the provision of carrying was that there was work you carrying loads in on the Sabbath. No, don't do this work. Don't do that was a pretty tissue in your pocket that's carrying no art but appreciate the question. Let's just see here.

There are quite these are questions, but these are not differences yet okay Michelle it's a question but all answered briefly how you align the nature of God specifically to morality goodness and justice with Exodus 21 solos of slavery. X, Leviticus 24 50 slavery when talking to unbelievers yet. So here's the right approach on the laws of slavery within Israel will have the main that for the most part, this was being an indentured servant and their laws to protect the person slavery was ubiquitous in the ancient world and the Israelites had just come out of being slaves in Egypt so Gossett hate you are not to put others under the same system.

In other words, it was a massive improvement from what was a massive improvement. Slaves rested on the Sabbath.

Slaves would go free after six years method massive debt. They were over there they go free after six years get angry and punch the guy in the face not to do that go free. Over the so so these are things that were wonderful compared to the system they came out of Leviticus 25 does allow for Israel to purchase slaves from foreign nations. That is true that you could argue that once they were in Israelite possession.

They were still Israel was still required to treat them in humanitarian white but we telemedicine. Jesus said that there were things under the law that were given because of human weakness like divorce. They were not God's ideal that they were not God's ultimate best plan so she comes in, bring us, it brings us into a new and better covenant and then you can say so. There were things under the Sinai covenant and their there were things that existed with human nature being what it was but God was always calling us to something higher, and then I say, by the way, what's your view on abortion. For example, Bob. Maybe they think it's possible you'll actually I can make a case that you support mass murder of of unborn children. You're planning for your biblical morality in which your view about sleep. You get out of wedlock. Which of you about this or that way I could show how modern morality fall short in 100 different ways compared to biblical morality. So there's some things that were there that were temporary and that we've now moved on and and and move to a higher morality by God's grace and plenty of things under the law that are million times better than our contemporary morality by farm rather Lisa kid nation Israel terms of safety and morality that in modern America in terms of error on the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown your voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution of your again is Dr. Michael Brown and friends to the line of fire broadcast Michael Brown delighted taken some challenges from you, where you have differences with me on different theological issues, moral, cultural, political issues, I've asked you to post them on Facebook, twitter, this is a ready done. This is before the broadcast to don't post anything now taking calls but were digging in some of these differences I think if I was really really interesting to go over to twitter, where John raises this issue challenging my view about Israel, the church, he says Israel was always the church three times in Genesis 3 crucial junctures of the book Israel is defined as a company, Hall of peoples, nations 2335 1144, the true Israel was always the church, not ethnicity are very, very wrong statement when you say the church you are now importing something else completely different.

Really having no no scriptural basis even trims the word that's being used and something filled with Christian connotation if you wanted to say Israel was the Eckley seal which I'm assuming is your point. That's a whole other argument that you would say Israel is always the Eckley Sia the congregation. The assembly which gets mistranslated as church ultimately okay but let's say that your argument that Israel is the Eckley Sia and is not ethnic all know that that is also inaccurate. First thing is when those verses speak about Israel being a company of peoples, nations, some of the tribes of Israel is that some of our nations there some other tribes of Israel. How I know God tells Abram under make a great goy will go is getting is Gentile.

I is is is is he now all Gentiles on the earth to disintegrate. Right now I'm obviously not. We understand so when it talks about that accompany this.

It's because of the expansion going from a handful of people to millions and millions and millions and millions of people. That's what it means. So it's what going when God makes a distinction he makes very clear, for example, in Isaiah 42 Isaiah 49, the Messiah is told not only will you be a covenant for the people of Israel but a light to the nations who are the nations of Israel is the nation's are you getting the point in Romans the 11th chapter 11. Paul's writing about Israel to make sure their own believers understand what it was he say plainly. There is, I'm writing to you Gentiles you people of the nations. What because I want you to provoke Israel to jealousy.

Who is Israel, then it in in Romans 15" in Deuteronomy and elsewhere were the Gentile nations are called to worship God together with Israel. So you can say that saved Israel and the save nations make up the Eckley Sia though, the, the, the body of Messiah. That's true so saved Israel and saved Gentiles make up the body of Messiah, the body of Christ.

We called quote the church but to say Israel is the church no misnomer and again gives no meaning outed to Gentile in the New Testament or the Old Testament against simple questions are, if the Messiah is to be a covenant for Israel and a light to the nations, then who are the nations, and when the nations come screaming into Israel's light present.

Isaiah 62 whose Israel.

Why the distinction there was the meaning of Jeremiah 31 verses 35 to 37 were after God makes a new covenant with the house of Israel in the house of Judah on these are ethnicities why Israel and Judah. You can be joined to them. You can be a final agreed to be joined to the but otherwise these are physical descendents of a man, Isaac, and Jacob. What's news of God promising.

I will preserve you always no matter what penis which the people in the bringing it would theoretically bring all Gentiles and have no physical descendents), Isaac and Jacob, and he kept his promise. The promise that becomes utterly and completely meaningless. That's why Jesus is coming back to a physical Jerusalem. That's why they're always been physical Jews persecuted and hated who was it that God drove out of the land of disobedience is the people of Israel. The Jewish people was a brought back that same people. So yes Gentile could be joined to them and then come under the Mosaic law, but that was a tiny minority. And yes, there were others that join Daniel from came out of Egypt and that you know that the mixed multitude they became part but then became part of the physical descendents, and even it's about seed of David seed of Abraham. A physical sense was that mean it is nothing ethnic about was Paul mean Romans 1125 that that after the fullness of the Gentiles or on the heels of the fullness of the Gentiles coming at all Israel shall be saved, which he then defines in terms of that specific people quoting from Isaiah 50 Isaiah 59 and mincing explicitly explicitly that the gifts and calling of God are revocable and that's why God is includable. Jews and Gentiles under the belief that he may have personal what's the distinction between a Jew and Gentile in power of God to salvation Beverly's first of June, then the Gentile so you take these passages. I'm sure necessary and now put a totally Christian interpretation on them, which are the been utterly foreign to to Moses and to the patriarchs into the prophets, and to Jesus and the apostles. So we are one family in God. When Eckley Sia one body Jew and Gentile together and Messiah equal heirs, but Israel remains Israel and the Gentile nations men Gentile nations that's simple truth part. Let's see, there is there is a we try to get to this one different with me about in purgatory. Prayers prayers of cursing Salome to see if I can find that on twitter then go back over to Facebook. Let's just see here we go in. Is it coming out there we go all the other Paul.

I disagree with your take against imprecatory Psalms. I believe the widespread opposition to such relies more modern cultural feeling than any command from Scripture. The first Timothy commands most commonly raised in response to this, but first we need to understand that it is a positive command to pray for kings that a positive command against implications or did you mean implications, while the former may imply contradiction to the latter, I think to do so ignores the massive prevalence of gnomic statements in the Scriptures that three not necessarily apply in every single situation. For example, in Paul gives us his reasoning.

Romans 13 that authorities are terribly evil. This may be true, generally or ideally but that absolutely and thus there may be times refuse submission for likewise with respect to prayerful leaders. We need to consider that our rulers are among the most destructive in history and Paul may not have opposed imprecations against such oppressors praying for the destruction spring for mercy for those under their boot. Five. So the key point proposers. The Paul's statement is gnomic, general command, not necessarily applicable in every situation in the same maintained its first Timothy 212 is binding, but gnomic. For example, compared to Ruth Deborah's truck okay so God and I can go through every detail to explain it to those in fault. Thank you for laying it out so clearly. So here's why I categorically reject that position 1, you are telling me that God wants you to pray prayers like Psalm 109 praying down curses on the children and grandchildren of Joe Biden and, Harris.

That's what you're telling like I say categorically that is contrary to the spirit of what we are taught in the New Testament, categorically these are just being sentimental.

Now I understand the issue before this on an Old Testament scholar that this minor scholarship and Jewish understand these issues understand Jewish people pray as well. I thoroughly understand looked at the imprecatory Psalms for decades in terms of where they fit or what we are praying for the return of Jesus, which ultimately means becomes an flaming fire taking vengeance on those who don't know God is in a calm and destroy the ungodly, we say.

Even so, Lord Jesus, Maranatha, Marana thought your kingdom come.

We are praying for God to come in fire and bring judgment, but we are praying for mercy on until then we are praying for mercy be extended until then they go further with this we know that according to Proverbs 6 God hates a Lying Tongue Ct. in Scripture, it is detestable to him and he hates hands that shed innocent blood at any hates haughty eyes while you might say the Democrats are shedding innocent blood, but Donald Trump was called lie after lie after lie, and certainly walking great pride, so should be pre-be praying down judgment on him and print and curses on his grandkids just got to be consistent man got to be consistent. That's 12. Jesus explicitly tells us you've heard hate your enemy that that was about like Psalm 139 jaw. I hate those who hate you board I hit her with a perfect hatred it income on Dead Sea Scrolls. There was teaching to that effect. So Jesus is saying you heard hate really. I'm telling you don't do that. Love your enemy. So there is a difference in attitude and then Paul, not just in first Timothy two tells us how to pray. But in Romans 12 he tells us what our attitude should be and and the blessing those super slick what went when Jesus says pray for those who persecute you. You think humans pray. The imprecatory Psalms more for those per Lord, I pray you smite them and judge them and crush them and destroy them and destroy their children destroy the grandchildren and there will be beggars and homeless is and how the church prayed know how they pray. The book of acts. It lets let's take a look and ask the fourth chapter Jesus said to pray for those who persecute you, that can be Boca hurrah him trapping people's heads off in Nigeria that that can be Kim Jong-Il in in in in North Korea torturing Christians in the most horrific, unimaginable ways I can be Isis, burning people alive. Jesus is pray for those who persecute you.

What is Stephen say Stephen say to to God is he's dying after being stone or delay this sin is at the church, forgive them and and how did the apostles pray. What were they pray, ask for 24 when they heard this, the persecution they raise their voices the believers together in prayer to God's sovereign Lord you made the heavens and the earth and the sea, and everything in them you spoke by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of your servant, our father, one of the nations rage and the peoples plot in vain. The kings of the earth rise up in the rulers band together against the Lord and against the his anointed one, so they speak about Psalm two. Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel and the city to conspire against your your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed.

They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen now, Lord, consider their threats and enable your servants to speak your word with great boldness that also consider their threats and smite them and destroy them and wipe them out. Now consider their threats and enable us to speak your word with great boldness, stretch out your hand to heal and perform signs and wonders to the name of your holy servant Jesus thinks all of Tarsus came to faith. Early church must've prayed for him and pray for God to destroy him and wipe them out and curse him.

Kids or grandkids to wipe them out. They pray that God would bring them to repentance. I have no problem saying God intervened.

God stop evil. You know how to do it, but otherwise I have explicit instruction in terms what my attitude is to be an explicit instructions into how I am to pray and remember when Paul's writing. First Timothy Nero is the Emperor and that so he says to pray casebooks will never be exposed to light a fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown of your voice and more cultural and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Looking back to the line of fire. I cannot believe how quickly time has flown didn't fly float flown time flies. You have a good time as they say.

So what will just dig back and were going through issues that you've raised questions that you we differ with me and I asked for this so that every so often you show restraint dig into these last riposte to call the differ was manic as many calls message posted to do much more free postage enough to worry about. Be ready to respond to an argument you just raise your issue and let me responsible so that hate nice to this thanks to all you who pray for us, support us, listen to what we have read articles and and you you have different disagreements but you stand with me on the big thing say that that's that's family that's been the body are James on Facebook posted this here's mine you are theologically sound man in many areas and as an ISA cessation us have no problem with a fellow believer believing the gifts continue. That being said, you believe in small I apostles a small P prophecy was scrupulous and create two classes of these and I believe this partially discredits your position also tend to associate with ministers who blatantly twist Scripture through their theological presuppositions like a Abdul Johnson Jennifer LeClair and company to lead others from sound doctrine teach things. Contrary to Scripture what understands why you are strong on social issues. But what I would call semisoft was false teachers, prophets and apostles. Let your thoughts regarding teacher I benefited from tremendously in your stage for Christ in the midst of a hostile culture. God bless Dr. Brown a James, thank you for being so gracious in the midst of differences and obviously this perplexes you from your viewpoint, so let me go through in order. I believe that apostles and prophets exist today, because the New Testament speaks of them as continuing that's what so how we sort that out. A small eight which I explained what I mean it and what you mean by that. The minute how we sort that a secondary first thing is, Scripture says it, for example, Ephesians 4, beginning in verse eight tells us that when Jesus ascended to heaven he gave gifts to men in an and that he gifts those as apostles, prophets, evangelist pastors, teachers and tilt when we come into the fullness of the knowledge of the son of God no longer tossed to and fro with every wind not current apostles, prophets, evangelist pastors, teachers will continue until Jesus returns immediately list adjustments is read. Let's read Ephesians chapter 4 together and lets let's answer that simple question. Have we reached that point yet some of try to argue about nuances in the Greek I'd I simply don't see it anything that would diminish this to Messiah himself gave the apostles, the prophets evangelist the pastors and teachers, to equip his people for works of service that the body of Christ may be built up until right so he gave these gifts on until we all reach unity in the faith and the knowledge of the son of God and become mature, attending to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ them will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves blown here and there by every wind of teaching etc. so we have gone there yet. We have gone there. These are put in the body on till this first thing second thing we see people called apostles outside of the 12 is some of come up with lists that would argue is as many as 20 or 25 different people called apostles in the New Testament merits is just greed of the apostles is just an emissary. Okay, but we make it into the speak thing it's it's an emissary is partially off and ended it's is not that big of a term but but look at this acts chapter 14 verse 14 but when the apostles Barnabas and Saul heard this of Barnabas is called an apostle to write data more than 12 okay and the dependent we put call but just Barnabas. These extra and then there are others that went when Paul's writing from the apostles and is included Timothy are others that are others that that are spoken of as apostles.

So the New Testament makes the distinction between once Colby 11 right. First, the 12 in the office of the New Testament makes the distinction so there are none of the 12 alive today or none of the 11. Bill lets let's go to the Matthew chapter 28 okay Matthew chapter 28 and we go down and it says in verse 16 then the 11 disciples went to Galilee right so dear just being known as the 11 here. Acts 126 they cast Launcelot fell to Matthias so he was added to the 11 apostles asked to then Peter stood up with the 11 so the Bible I I can come up with this idea of we just distinguish big a small way to make it. It's a human way of saying, but there's the 12 and then the other apostles.

What do you do with the fact that not only does New Testament speak of apostolic ministry being here to reach the fullness in Christ which is obviously the end of this age when he returns so well is the Bible speak of that speaks of others outside of the 12. So to make sure that people understand much about the 12 just talk about others that are called apostles emissaries have this planting fathering founding pioneering role.

We talk about began literally that's argument distinction.

So instead let's say you have the 12 and all the apostles. After that, I believe there been apostles in every generation. The seven call back ill from Hudson Taylor John Wesley to my friend this apartment in India planting 7000 churches in tribal regions and results completely and reached out totally reached every village completely on reached to totally rearming dangerous travelers review he killed for preaching with her man eating tigers our first trip there. We have stated and I because of a man eating tiger can go on certain roads and then splendidly works in other nations. It so where God's will recall them. Let's recognize their existence. So one the New Testament speaks of them functioning in an ongoing way to their others outside of the 12 in the New Testament call apostles and I could also hear. Lets let's also look at the end of first Corinthians chapter 12 as Paul is discussing aspects of order in the church and we can't establish things he says in verse 28 and God is placed in the church.

First of all prop apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles that if if you are let's leave this text up for a moment, those watching.

If you will be cessation is to get rid of apostles and prophets that exist anymore. Third, teachers good, your teachers, but now miracles next biggest of healing, then it helps guidance and different kinds of tongues so so hang on, you've got woman in together here, teachers, miracles, healing help administration tongues so it is all interwoven together because it was never God's intent that the thing stopped by. We can take the text down acts.

The second chapter be in verse 17 the spirit will be put on all flesh. What in the last days of this will exist from that time until Jesus returns. And what will happen will happen. Your sons and daughters will prophesy will be ubiquitous outpouring of prophecy your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. Even my service both minimum promo spread in those days no prophesy what is in the last days. So prophecy is to continue, and Paul tells us eagerly desire prophecy even as our government tongues, but even desire prophecy in these houses as we don't despise it so, word man, I'm actually in a firm prophecy gifts for today and I'm absolutely a firm apostolic and prophetic ministry for today with the New Testament makes clear his prophetic ministry as a very different function of very different emphasis and it is a function stiffly, and that the profit is not the only one can hear God. The prophets words are tested by the people and and the prophets greatest goal is the testimony of Jesus.

So it's okay what what about Bill Johnson Shea on Jennifer clear. First, I can make an argument that cessation is terribly twist the Scripture.

And if you think that this is something important that God said by his spirit is crucial and important. You would have a book of acts without the moving of the Holy Spirit in that and wouldn't have Paul's ministry with the moving of the Holy Spirit and all these things if Gossett is essential and foundational and really important then to deny the receipts ceased. With that, make that person a false teacher of some uses the bizarre argument virtually unknown in church history type hundreds of years ago that the first 2013 that that when that which is perfect comes means the completion of Scripture, and that when the canon of Scripture is complete, the guest would stop and just of notion would be completely unknown to the early church, and even Augustine in the fourth century and revises views on miracles because of all the miracles they saw as the changes he's writing is a document 70 miracles a couple years which I bring all those people false teachers.

Bottom line is, find out what Bill Johnson actually believes and teaches same with crayons and with Jennifer clear I would have differences with them on different points.

Just like have differences with my friend Dr. James White is a Calvinist and a cessation honor him as a brother and fellow worker and fellow soldier and and a true friend.

A true friend. So I have differences on the sensation cessation aside, I've differences with friends who believe in the pretrip rapture, but Bill Johnson and Shea on Jennifer Eitel on the reteaching as well in terms of of major teacher doctrine, but I'm sure I have differences with each of them on different points but I know I I know Bill and Shea. Better probably chaise best Bill second and Jennifer third but to the best of my knowledge, they are true believers.

They affirm the fundamentals of the faith, and you might civil about this wacky thing that like you think by someone about the wacky thing of denying the gifts of the spirit for today was easy. Differences we have is a differences we have and I will work with a wide range of people. If we agree on the fundamentals sister just like you can honor and respect me with differences I cannot respect them with differences. I do not see them as false teachers, heretics, hell bound unsaved if so, if I saw Mike that I would not work with them. I see the differences we have differences within the faith, and I encourage you just find out what they believe in more depth. And if you're if if you're differences are even deeper than then fine.

Then, ask a follow-up question with specifics. That's why hold to what I hope to my fellowship and work with these folks.

God bless thank you questions. Another program powered by the Truth Network