What is a Covenant

This is the Truth Network kingdom pursuits where you hear from ordinary people instilled with an extraordinary passion together we explore the stories of men and women who take what they love and let God turn their passion into the kingdom pursuits now live from the truth. Your host Robbie Gilmore wow do we have a kingdom sleeps in store for you today are totally loaded with lemminglike loaded for bear because were coming fresh off the RB and I always come across. The most amazing folks there.

I mean I'm really really excited about this picture show. If you love theology and I really really do.

I think you're going to see some insights that just connect a whole lot of dots for you today. First off abductor Mark Johnson. He is the author of what is a covenant God's plan for our best lives, our hope for the future. Welcome Mark. I am excited. I mean, I had a chance to talk with Mark actually do an interview at the NRB so I have an idea of what you guys are in store for today but I think as our listeners begin to give a feel for this Scripture that you cannot highlight for us open up our hearts to it. It can vastly not just improve our marriages, but our life and also many ways.

It is because it is the definition of our relationship with God and nature the relationship. It is our marriage and that makes a lot more different.

First thing. Happy to build a talk that absently absolutely wonderful and just a really neat guy.

Mark is in that long with him. We have another one that I all my goodness, how can I get a chance to get both these guys on the same show some very excited about this. I have Kevin coil and Kevin is the author of Jesus descended the hell so you when I have to unlocking the centuries-old Easter mystery of Christ one sacrifice into events blood and fire welcome Kevin derive a great day with you and I have to tell you that I was my my daughter goes to Samford University in and just which is a Christian university down in Alabama in Birmingham and she was doing her biblical perspectives course. This lasted on and we had a chance to discuss your book and it is telling her how was I had you on my show today and she was like oh man that makes perfect sense to me. I would insist like oh my goodness in the fruit of it so II know our listeners are going to be just thrilled that you guys like what you guys have today, but you guys have never done kingdom pursuits alive before but I have these riddles that I like to do so. Speaking in my both my guest today are authors so speaking of occupation. I my first you ready for this, my first (my first job was working in the orange cheese factory ever tried that. I got can concentrate is a lumberjack that I just couldn't hack it gave me the one I think. And after that I tried to be Taylor, but I wasn't suited for you mainly thought about it I really been a tailor is just a so-so job so I tried working in the muffler factory but it was too exhausting. I even tried bank robbery because you know if you've heard this, but it's a safe job and I want to be a barber but I couldn't cut it.

I try to be a chef. I had to add a little spice to my life. I just didn't have the time, so I attempted to be attempted to be a deli worker but anyway I sliced it.

They figured I couldn't cut the mustard rolled really, but my best job was being a musician, but they didn't think I was noteworthy thinking I study long time to become a doctor. Mark but I didn't have any patients so you know my next job was in his shoe factory, but I didn't fit in and I managed to get a good job working for Jiffy Lube but was draining him tell me it's during one of my favorite jobs really was at the zoo feeding giraffes, but they fired me because I said I was not up to it.

It's good stuff, and you get to real eventually and not quite there.

So you got here just a couple more after many years of trying to find steady work. I finally got a job as a historian I realized there was no future in it yet. A little later on my last job actually was working at Starbucks, but I had to quit was the same old grind. It was all that you guys need to have a chance to call and win the day.

So you know many in the Bible. Speaking of occupation, many in the Bible were fishermen and some were fishers of men. And I love you thought about this but the musical instrument of choice for fishermen you thought about this Danny. Now I can have its its castanets babe is playing fast and so is actual riddles you calling win at 866-34-TRUTH 87884.

They had to survive on what kind of income fishermen fishers of men. What kind of income that they have to survive on 866-34-TRUTH 87884 866-34-TRUTH and if they can do that. Danny, the wind, which is really awesome yes it is awesome we have we have Mark Johnson's book called what is a covenant and it's it's a really a great read. We we also have Kevin coil's book Jesus descended into hell. So you wouldn't have to love that title. I really really do and and Kevin, you know, one of the fruit of what you discovered here.

If we don't have but it minute or so before the break, and I know Mark Skinner like this to is you are a missionary in China and what these people you are witnessing to said to you when you try to describe the gospel to write right well you know it work of Christ difficult, but not when tiny feel like Mr. Gavin, if I die, I don't believe in Jesus going to go through the cross would be crucified like he was because a study guide for BMI plate get all my guys forget every read for you so you really get it and I always wanted the ball back Jesus took your health so you wouldn't have to.

The legend goes that Jesus did all that on the cross and there is no need for him to go to hell so that I got my God, why have you forsaken me. Most theologians will tell you that was the wrath of God Christ as an engineer, I'm just looking at the picture and I'm just think that's not really what is the abandonment of the wrath of God.

Theologians say that he suffered the wrath of God on the cross. The just omit a dissent into hell, which made possible great baby. And on as an engineer I just can't wrestling with the bottle.

Think this is not adding up that robot so I stopped in their Kevin that we got so we got Jimmy who thinks he knows my griddle but I really anybody that would like to speak to my guess you have a question about Jesus ascended, how are you have a question about the covenant. I would love love love it feel a theology kingdom pursuits you call us at 866-348-7884 you call us, we come back to and uses it to build the kingdom.

Today we are so blessed really really blessed to have two wonderful authors and in both books just really give me some fresh insights connected some thoughts some really neat things for those messages love God's word and try to figure out how to apply it to our life. Dr. Mark Johnson is the author of what is a covenant God's plan for our best lives, our hope for our future and Kevin coil his book Jesus descended to hell so we wouldn't have to unlocking centuries-old Eastern mystery of Christ. One sacrifice into events blood and fire and I should always mention that the kingdom pursuits.com. If you go there you can listen to podcasts can hear the rest of the show, which is gonna be awesome by the but also both books are there available. All you do is click on undertaking write to Amazon, you can order the books and then please, please, please read him and then write the authors go on Amazon. Tell him how many stars they are and and feedback like that is so awesome for authors and were so appreciate you guys reading the books of these books, I gotta tell you are are both of them just beautiful. All the Scripture there there to back up with their with their describing in there in the in their titles and and what we talked about today so we also want to make sure that you just feel because I know I know a lot of times people calling with a riddle and I want to do.

Tell us what kind income.

These fishermen had the Bible 866-34-TRUTH 784 but I would really love really love if you have a question for one of these guys date date date of obviously done this work to describe this theology on covenants and on Jesus descending the hell so you got a question in LA this is a live show.

We would love we all kinds.

These lines open we can have you call us 866-34-TRUTH 87884. So being a Christian car guy Mark let's cut a deal man that's you know that's what I heard.

I can't tell you how many times in my life that somebody would sit down at my desk and they would say probably cut me a deal. Why do they say that the unit probably good. It is good to us.

And so, from your standpoint. Once a covenant right what covenant is evolved into Christian understanding.

In most the teaching of hurting all accounts it is referred to as a contract but one written by God that the contract is about what we do. We don't do, and if we think of a kind.

If we think of a relationship with God in those terms were only going to go to do and not work soon. Not that's pretty much get to be some of the focus of the relationship instead covenant is actually an exchange of unity that results in a change in the unity of the participants. The fundamental nature there. There there were very unity literally changes by entering his relationship and become uniquely troubling model for this is the Trinity got three separate individuals. Because individuals share in nature.

Each one individually as all of God, and together they are all of God and they are all God and individually go get to in a covenant relationship rather than just being an agreement rather than just being some kind of arrangement that we entered the contract designed to enhance both of our self-interest and a win-win thing that gives us both something we want to speak. Value to our lot, which is the way most to think of a relationship with God and with me instead of that, it's a very specific kind joining and it changes us in the process. So what I've spent the last 37 years working around, and this is what why does that matter and what I found is that that is the path to first best relationship between understanding nature that it changes our fundamental relationship processing marriage that Mark and I know that you look at the beginning is loaded for bear, but I'm sensing, Kevin is over the yes yes yes yes yes and that's all you know that's kind of. I put you guys together.

Consider these cavities go together dumping covenant so as you hear Mark described that.

How would you respond well of course were talking about the blood covenant of the Lord Jesus. There and when we look at the Old Testament when God does is covenant does than blood and fire by Quentin made a covenant with Abraham. For the land and he split the carcasses and then smoking fire pop went through you got admit that I and then when Moses inaugurated the first covenant, but the mountain was shaking mount was all smoke convertible play of God's power already and as Moses comes down from the mountain covenants with people and said blood sprinkled people with blood so that covenant powerful powerful Bible and my point in my book is that how can they covenant with Abraham be with blood and fire the covenant with Moses. The first covenant, the old covenant with blood and fire how can it not happen in the new covenant that there's no fire and the answer of course is that Jesus things to hell after he shared library must be the liar for our God is a consuming fire in his signature of this covenant and without stamped into hell – no fire, but we've been preaching this for 2000 years that the blood of the covenant was enough for the government to be inaugurated on thing, no, that's not God's pattern nor each. You must have higher also.

You must have hell and therefore reaching for 2000 years without including the hell no wonder people believe in health today because even a Christian preaching about help the very thing that I love about this more I thought about it because you know since I originally talked to Kevin and Mark and I and I see the connection in so many different ways is the fruit of bout what both of you are saying right. The fruit for you. Kevin was when you went to these Chinese people now and they came to you with that question of does that mean that I have to dine across when you then explained that Jesus went to hell. So you don't have to go to hell that that was like a new insight for them in some way that they actually came to Christ right like what it so get it. Everything everybody has hell on the mine deepest darkest China when you go to the most anti-God. People never knew nothing about God, tell them you know when you die. Space God and he's gone either but you go to heaven or you know the other place, and they all looked at me and they shake their head. My point downwardly. I mean even the most anti-God. People get heaven is good hell that I don't want to go there and tell them.

And so there to jump in market chances.

I'm thinking you're thinking some stuff and now I'd like you to respond to kind of what what what you hear. Actually, you write what John what has I think maybe Lord leave you stunned me the most about this material years that I'm writing about that one very specific element of the covenant, which is the exchange of unity in nature and winning everything they cheated occurs in that covenant we use words like 1/remarriage in the Scriptures. New birth new creature in the Lord's supper. Because we don't really understand. We can't use them and then we cease wondering about what what happens is it you don't understand the nature the things if you don't understand the fullness of the offer covenant, it would understand the fullness of what happened and what's supposed to happen and say what does happen and that and what how were supposed to respond in return you if you don't understand anything I relationship with God were marriages are not built in the weighted designed to be built. Therefore, they don't become wonderful incredible powerful blended things that are described in Scripture it said outcomes will how do we get there will the first place is an understanding that Jesus in John six started out with the basic fundamental nature of the relationship to get came at him and said okay what giving a short list of things is the contractual version be the short list of things to do to begin with God and Jesus normally just impaired people coming up a question, but by showing them very kindly that they wanted goodies that Dr. worry that what they thought they were doing in their own righteousness, but here in John six he gazed shift the focus to the fundamental nature of the relationship which is first believed me to simply take what I say at face value it I am for telling me. Then believe in me. In other words, seeing who I am to the point that you're willing to entrust your future to meet your cell there cast yourself in my arms and believe in the everything yes yes yeah yeah nodding, smiling baby gift to the third part which eat my flesh and drink my blood or you have no part of me and everybody's steps back and you hear the collective gasp in the crowd. It's pretty much described in Scripture and we think when we read this in the will and when I read it first. I was just really impact to like what in the world and Mark so it's okay identity thing was the picture that I no longer necessarily Robbie on Tammy's husband and again to that as well as Jesus is to send in the hell and how that is fire. In this covenant I'm I'm excited to find out all the stuff we need your call 866 Robbie Gilmore here in the Truth Network podcast of help make my pillow the company it is today, and now Mike Lindell, who by the way, I've met is a great guy, the inventor and CEO. My pillow wants to get back to our listeners.

The first time you can get deep discounts on all my door products you go to my pillow.com right now, and click on the new radio listeners special who never thought that my dream job would be selling my pillows and you're getting tired of these sleeping jobs, but you can get deep discounts on my pillows, mattress toppers, bedsheets, and so much more.

For example, the body pillow is regularly 89, 99, but with a promo code get truth it's only 2999 remember all my pillow products, the 60 day moneyback guarantee and a 10 year warranty. Just go to my pillow.com and click on the new radio listeners specials and get deep discounts on all my pillow products including the body pillow for only 2999 enter promo code get truth or call 800-942-9613 for these great radio specials is really here and a lot of people God gives him a story and so they become authors in the past we have today.

Dr. Mark Johnson, author of what is a covenant God's plan for our best lives or hope for our future, and Kevin Coyle's book Jesus descended to hell.

So you wouldn't have to unlocking the centuries old Easter mystery of Christ one sacrifice and two events.

Blood and fire again@kingpursuits.com you can order these books.

Easy enough, but you got it even easier way to get them all I gotta do is answer my rent which I'm actually shocked any just shocked that nobody is called in yet to tell me what kind of income these fishermen and the Bibles had to do was tell us what kind income and you get. We have both books for you.

866-348-7884 and while there so many meet Scripture as so many meet pictures of what God is doing both in confidence and what Jesus did on the cross. In these two books so I got it was his come and get them to call us 866-34-TRUTH 87884 and Kevin, I am coming up on Passover right on about three or four weeks and the thing I think is I love to do Passover Seder's may have done for years and actually have been the one who I don't know if I told you this, when I met you that I often am the person that slaughters to sheep and I'm often the person that roasts the and to try to do that without breaking any bones is like best ways to do it, but it takes it's long and it's it's a lot different than processing a deer or something like that and so and and and there's beautiful things in my mind and I know that a lot of people say Robbie, that's gross. Well, what they say about a sheep being quiet before us. Slaughter is absolutely true. If you if you go catch a sheep and I've got them there in about.

I mean it's it's this is a bad thing. The fix they have and they understand it's it's really cool when you go to the shepherd is been tending the sheep. They literally do know the sheep by name and they'll call Mike Bobby Kammerer and that she here comes and lately they take him up in their arms. It's a beautiful thing to hand them to you and then believe me the sheep are not a quiet animal okay and so now the way that they do it in the Middle East and the way that we do it in order to not hurt the animal anymore.

We pray over the MOE put their arms around that we hold the animal and and then if you take that knife you got hold animal upside down and we use a rope to do that and interestingly, right before it happens again, you're welcome to join me. Anybody wants to just email me I'll be doing it here in a couple three weeks that sheep will go silent, and it will offer its life to you as if it knows that's a significant thing. I'm just telling I've experienced it and the other thing that you will not forget when you do this is all my gosh Abraham had done this many many many times. I'm sure. And so when he knew when he was taking that knife to his son. He he knew this experience. The way that people in our culture would never know. But then he he he also knew that part of that sacrifice. You never hear talk about much was it the kid carried the word right below is a far Kevin back in two God and that I could be a burnt offering time now you talk about an overkill of trying to get someone's attention. When God meant two things I like the time like the promise of the great commission. Great to have all the nations of the world six times he says your son either be a burnt offering, and now we've got a go to guy what was that all about.

Well, Jesus was the sweet aroma unto God and where that is but it sweet aroma only comes from the bank offering sacrifice, which is a fine of worship to God. Cleansing of then and it sweet and pleasant aroma to God. Worship is just like he is the master of master painters and he's been painting a picture for us in the idea of covenant and change in identity. The idea of of you know what he did on the cross in in's and so many different ways but I'm personally thrilled and excited because I've got to read letters at least on the left. I got Ashley is in Richmond Virginia this morning. Ashley here on Kanga pursuits good morning and and also have Rhonda is in Oregon so we went up. Be sure and Rhonda stay on the line. Even if she guesses the same thing as you did. As we, by all means want to get you some books as well, so Ashley what kind income do you think these fishermen have all the great you know you are exactly right. They do, they did and that's probably a much better answer than the one because God told him you know you know that that that the workman's and Martin's wages in the and and you know, I know so many missionaries and stuff to go out there in faith and and get that that way. That's a beautiful picture Ashley do you have a question for either. My guess up today since they are they have some really cool subject matter and I know I have lots of questions has one and if you have one and only came to my okay you okay okay I understand no problem. I appreciated Ashley God bless thank you. We have Rhonda, who is in Oregon in which I'm really excited about Rhonda year on well we lost Rhonda. We had her eye.

We should call back in 866-34-TRUTH 87884 because Danny, I didn't know where on a radio station in Oregon. Did she say Oregon.

She said Oregon that's cool. I'm really happy to be on a radio station organized asking what radio station Jim Ciccone is back on. The place is always listening Oregon. We love to know so that we can give them a shout out those people there in Oregon so Mark, as is you would discuss this covenant and I know is just a you to know you're getting into this but I just like to throw questions of people sometimes. So as I was processing what Kevin was teaching and also what you are teaching and clearly that first covenant that God made with Abraham had some fire in it. Is there a fire in marriage. I mean, other than obviously a lot of us had a unity candle or some other candles involved, as are some I mean having been married for 32 years.

I know I've gotten scorched a few to you. I think this is coveted a covenant is a particular relationship. For instance, we can be in an unlimited number like covenant effect we are with the body of Christ in covenant with the other members of the body of Christ, but a marriage is a is an exclusive arrangement.

If you have intercourse with someone outside your marriage. You initiate a miracle covenant by exchanging any containing material physically between you which is sexual intercourse, sexual intercourse initiates a marriage covenant with despite the intention or lack of intention of the parties. A covenant is pulling course at that point. In it, probably there is a distinction in the presence of fire that the kids did not really where the historic correspondent looked at schools talking about.

Clearly that is a part of our coming before the Lord say the sacrificial system all the way through it and I got a beautiful things.

It's coming up next and last segment of kingdom pursuits. This is talking about identity both because of what Jesus did by descending into hell get to that. And then because of this covenant. It's absolutely beautiful thing a person's.com books are available.

You don't want to miss out on the and I mean I'm telling you so many dots can be connected in your life is so much that's cracked. Dr. Mark Johnson the covenant and Jesus descended the hill so you wouldn't have to mean just absolutely wonderful. Right before the break and again I should say again, if you're interested in these books which I sure would be the kingdom pursuits.com and click on the boat book and order it from Amazon and again these ratings for authors are so important feedback. No you know what you liked what what. Perhaps your concerned about. So you still got a couple minutes to call if you got a question for Kevin or Mark 866-34-TRUTH 87884 as a member to call in and we would love to hear from you, but you know, one of the key things Kevin that I really got out of Mark's work is this concept of the identity change and Jesus to sent to hell like it's a significant thing that I now Tammy's husband. I mean, it is but it's in its hugely significant but is way more significant that the covenant that I entered into with Christ as a result of his trip and could you speak to that a minute will follow a war going. That's okay.

The point that Mark makes.

And I think it's a wonderful point and in so much of my life I lived in the identity of Robbie Gilmore. Okay and I didn't come to Christ until 219 seasoning 1991. Okay.

And then I died right and then I became Christ and Robbie Gilmore, but I wouldn't have that ability to even do that if I was still facing all these things it sends it. He had to get singed for essentially what I'm talking about right for your something I have yet to put in the book, but it was an afterthought buried with Christ — the league into the waters of baptism with those that were going to identify with Christ you know – today is a lot different than it is way back.

Paul wrote those words, when people died. Back then they knew that they were going to see old I was the pope estimation and when it talks around the Jesus that I was hit. He's just basically. He was. Sleep like the rich man of Abraham and Lazarus. He was in the fire of hell and when we baptized into death. He's talking about being baptized into spiritual that we will be going to those waters were going to hell. I mean, we're coming out of hell that thing held that Jesus rose from the grave, but he rose out of Holy Cross spiritual life so exciting to have eternal life.

We don't have eternal like the rich man in the flame right say is a complete separation from God versus God.

Now you got the good so Mark just a few minutes left to describe this in identity change which is huge in the importance of this is that, as a new creature changed and what I found in trying to obey God tells us to love him with our heart, mind, soul and strength told us to love each other as we love ourselves all about learning to love the way God is inviting us to do is simply to live out the new nature we received as we were reborn into it. If you realize instead of God. All that he tells us to do a lot of things right you guys get greatly listed principles and duties and obligations and laws section. The Scriptures and it feels like because of the life that we built the mindset we have all of the thing we smell like accumulating it feels like God is trying to fit a gang of a square peg into a round hole me that's a list of fine but you reach a point where just like this is not me all the thing is, in the dignity change that occurs as we enter covenant.

In fact, it is me that God is simply inviting us to become the being in reality in relationship in character in the way we walk in the world and in the way we relate to our covenant partner God into other beings with humor and Kevin in the body Christ were other people to love well the love consistently across a course like to learn how to do this or covenant is not simply the kind of bonds to beings together is actually a plan for our development and growth of character to learn how to actually build these relationships to their potential to be key is not.

It is about forgiveness and said it is about not saying that that's dealt certainly a key element, but it's about so much more, which is building these relationships through building down nature and rest. I see there is way more than we can cover ourselves.

We've got these books available@kingdompursuits.com Mark and Kevin. I am Dr. Mark and Dr. Were just thrilled to have you guys on with this very fine. I appreciate you getting back with a I cannot delight you all yeah kingdom pursuits.com order these books. Now you get to stay tune encouraging prayer, followed by masking journey starts here now so much truth in action on the Truth Network. Thank you for this and I really had fun. Great