Peter's Interview by Bram Floria of Compassion Radio

On today's compassion radio when you have an episodic pain, you're going to react but with the pain lessons you stop reacting and it was emotional pain. A lot of our reactions will be to flail around emotionally or to question the goodness of God. I look, compassion, radio when it comes today's topic were doubling down on the first word in our name is ever been a time in living memory when compassion is more needed I can't think of when you can't be there to cover those you love makes it all the worse for all of us.

Frankly, we all need a generous dose compassion to get us through but if were all in this together, so to speak, was the first to show compassion.

It makes me think about a couple of other alternative phrase that have been worked to death over the years. The first one is God will never give you more than you can handle. Frankly that's untrue, but will say that discussion for another program. The second single something like this when it rains it pours. Today's guest can certainly get testimony to that you survive the trauma of it was 40 years of full-time care for his wife, Gracie, after barely surviving a car crash in her teens. The two of them have embarked on a journey that neither could've imagined more than 80 major surgeries later they thought they knew how life is going to go for them and then covert and then another life-threatening accident.

Thankfully they've both been transparent on this wrenching journey in God's economy.

It somehow becomes a great encouragement to others who are also facing unexpected loss in danger if you wonder how you're going to get through the next year. The next day, maybe even the next minute you can spend more valuable half-hour than this one in the company of godly passionate people like you meet today. Thanks for tuning our way. Compassion rated as they were walking back a special friend to the ministry so is report a lot of comfort and encouragement to us in some pretty hard times.

He speaks from a wealth of experience in this Commonwealth. You probably wish they didn't have but Peter Rosenberger, welcome back to compassion radio is good to be with you and thank you for this, and yet it has been kind of weird to know I set up this conversation a couple weeks ago anticipating us to discuss some hard things and then hard things started happening. It was like where to talk about things we had to go through them you facing some issue with your wife and her health, which was not expected and I want to talk about how that has affected your perspective and your faith in the past few weeks we get a start beginning for most were listeners here.

I want you to in a couple of paragraphs summarize 40 years worth of experience in medical history with you and your wife Gracie.

Gracie had a car wreck back in 1983, 38 years ago, which is a long time. You know how I know that's a long time. The Scripture says, the book of John, Jesus goes to the pool there and sees a guy the been there since birth. 38 years, and that Scripture after 638 years. The next sentences he had been there a long time.

So even Scripture validates the 38 years is a long time and Gracie's been hurt for a long time. She's gone through a lot of love challenge and that was our exchange in our text this past week or so. 81 is in the books of what you said to me anyone is in the books. She caught her prosthetic foot, and she lost her balance.

She twisted but her prosthetic leg did not just to prosthetic legs and she broke her femur and it was very dramatic and she had surgery everything is fixed now. We gotta get a recuperating and then she's facing surgery. Number 82. At the end of October.

That's been on the books while here because she so bent over because when her back was fused 20 years ago when her distorted collapsing. That's why they did it. 20 years ago, but hitching her forward and they'll she's over 40°, there's a surgeon in Denver.

That's going to straighten your back up is the plan we don't know if this is still on for October will find out were going to deal with it as we deal with is hard to imagine facing that kind of recovery for a spiral fracture on your own upper leg bone and then also go into a multi-hour. Probably half a days with the surgery to undo the accordion. That's become of her back for those years yeah it is.

It's not haphazard is very intentional that we have to say we're not there yet. Let me sum up this 40 years were talking about here because it's the platform upon which way to build this conversation today, when you're young man and you're looking for a wife and you see Gracie a spark of life that is overcome incredible burdens and challenges already and you enter into her life and you inherit a pile of medical documents along with the marriage license. You know when you start, it's going to be a challenge but as a young man, your faith is blind enough that you can say bring it God.

Whatever he got for me and you start the journey together and live watch the two of you from a distance for me 20 years in the past. Five or 10 years to build a friendship and that's been a joy for me to see someone like you care for a friend of mine. Someone I care deeply about, but to watch the struggles you both have gone through and you have, to a T owned each other's pain you've owned each other's joys and celebrations and you make opportunity to celebrate and every one of those challenges in their one of those light timer things are not so critical that's what I've admired about the two euros years and that has led you into a ministry that has had profound import. You are ministering to people like you. You have a program called hope for the caregiver. This broadcast on the weekends across the nation and of course everybody's thinking about existential threats now with all face the issue of what happens if we lose our jobs and millions did last year, millions of phase 1 of the loose someone that we love. And if you are anybody who knows more than two or 300 people in the entire world right now you've lost somebody the COBIT in the past year, so we've all face something is, as you know this is not all there is. I hope. But it's all were going through. It seems right now. Well yes that's a lot to address in one paragraph that you can when I married Gracie in my heart I knew that she was everything that I would ever want, and in the part of me that is redeemed it all.

Click part of me that is being redeemed. It took a while to walk through some of these things out of hell theologically correct, that is, but there's a lot of sanctification going on in my life whereas I confident of belonging to Christ. I am equally confident that there's a lot of sanctification going on in my life. Though suffering has a way of illuminating those things.

What kind of suffering does the caregiver go through when your loved one is suffering. That's something watching, suffering and ministering to someone who suffers, is its own journey of self-realization you're going to see what's in your so there's nothing like caring for somebody with a disability for a couple of decades to expose the girl syndrome so it amplifies and and I think in some respects. The difference is this what it's chronic and relentless. You never get a chance to put it back on the shelf and then start all over again.

It's always up in your face you and for me it is anyway and I talked a lot of people do this. They have the same principles I've had a theory about this some time about pain when you have an episodic pain, you're going to react but with the pain lessons you stop react. Gracie fell and broke her leg a week and half ago. She is not still experiencing the acuteness of that moment.

But in that moment she reacted rather intensely. She almost went in shock. It's a very serious break. She's not there now pain has subsided, so she's not having the same kind of reaction depending on what the level of pain is putting our reaction in her case, likes the shelves within the shock when she had her wreck.

She did go with the shock that's her body's extreme way of responding to pain when we deal with emotional pain. A lot of our reactions will be to flail around emotionally or to question the goodness of God why God, are you allowed this why you doing the data that you know it you can see that if you don't believe me, go out and look at any prayer request.

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But as the pain lessons.

The reactions slow down and you put those why God questions back on the shelf and you wait till the next episode to bring them out is that to say that the questions you're talking about is the true kernel of you that this is finally being squeezed out or that it's a challenge to what you want to believe. It's hard to say but I think there's something about the compression of pain that forces to the surface where you really live in your so what your faith is all about what you really think of God. Job experiences. We finally got squeezed enough. What really squeezed them was God showing up and not answering his questions by giving him different ones area and the answer often lies in the question. But the problem that we have when were dealing with episodic pain, is that we asked these questions that are rocking the foundation of our faith. But when the pain lessons when the ink on the divorce documents dry when the grass grows on the grave with when the bones knit and you can resume lifestyle you will you get another job you get released from the hospital you get a clean bill of health from your oncologist was questions go back on the shelf, but it ever go away. They don't ever go away. They just go into dormant mode until the next episode. But when you're dealing with chronic pain and suffering that is relentless and does it in you don't have those questions going into dormant mode. They always stay with you and you have to reconcile yourself with them or you gotta go barking mad and I think sometimes barking mad is almost a precursor to reconciling with at least my case it where caregivers live as it were watching something that doesn't seem to have a solution. Not in this life and we recognize our powerlessness over and that powerlessness awareness is very unsettling to us.

This is what brings you not of this conversation today because this is what's going on in our culture were having people look at a seemingly never-ending issue in all this unsettled us and we realize we are in control of this we give ourselves the illusion of control, but we don't have, and I think one of the things that grace you have had to struggle mightily with this is that we truly cannot do anything but try to just hang on to this raft as we go to class V rapids. The don't send in your case, those wrappers have been mighty swift the past couple weeks we got a major, major surgery coming up after this incident that all the other drama we normally live with in our daily lives, but were not there at that next place were here right now and this is Morgan lit Peter talk to me about what good suffering is you talk about the chronic phase of pain whether something acutely physical, like actual pain of a break or an ongoing medical crisis which causes pain and many things like cancer can cause not just intermittent being the chronic ongoing on the ameliorated pain to keep coming at you, it forces the questions of the topic to address and you have some latitude there to actually address the question.

While the pains there is one way I can see it as being valuable in that we can to choose than to face the questions but what good have you found in your 40 years is pain will you have to back up and look at this from several different viewpoints. I just finished reading the problem of pain.

CS Lewis, one of things that Lewis posits is that pain is a sterile Eve, whereas other evils in this world produce more evil by definition, they cannot help but pain is an evil that does not produce more evil in of itself. In fact, pain, and elicit positive things and good things you can develop a more trusting relationship with God when you're in pain.

It elicits compassion from others is the whole nature of your program compassion and because were seeing the pain of people who warrant compassion pain is a sterile evil in this world really challenge a point for second because when we see examples of those who have a certain kind of psychic or emotional pain which is been earned through moral injury. There was a Marine that went and murdered four people at random in Florida just a couple of days ago because he was going to psychic breaks and thinks God was telling him to go harm somebody because he's been through great evils evils have been done to him.

His heart is broken and so is his mind. At this point he chooses to do evil in response to that pain. So how is that different than the kind of pain that you're talking about what Lewis was saying as it pain in of itself does not demand or ensure that evil will follow at some people will choose with their pain whatever reason to go a different direction, but it does not require sin to follow, whereas other evils in this world you lust will only breed more evil and this is where Lucian pain is unique and that is that there's a sterility to do what we choose to do with it. We could take a sterile instrument and do something horrible with the sterile scalpel. For example, but pain does not necessarily mean it will produce evil God and Jesus went through extreme pain and yet evil did not follow his pain. In that sense I was done I think that's the point Lewis was making this Marine, for example, was in great pain and then the choices were made at some point that great evil followed it, but it was not this that because if he had gone into the proper helps circumstances somebody recognize this is pain could have been dealt with and would not have led to these kinds of things and and I know that's a little bit esoteric about me to get off in the weeds on it. But the point of it is is that if we start looking at everything that is in this life is painful as evil were missing the boat. It is painful when I touch a hot stove, but it is not easy to understand and so as I studied this thing with pain with grace in me, and I've looked at different things. Example Gracie can be out of pain right now. Yes, true. She could be completely out of pain. However, she would be able to function through immigration we could number up with anesthesia drugs and she would be stuck in a bed. She would be able to do anything we can give her some of the opioids that she would be zonked out and she would be a function so getting rid of all pain cannot be the goal for us and I think that as I look at our society and our culture evil is being worked in your life. I really reject the whole thought of.

If I'm going to something painful. I belong to Christ.

I'm a part of this broken world, and there may be consequences assert decisions if I hit my phone with a hammer. There is not great evil being brought by the hammer so I can't look for those kinds of blanket pronouncements that people seem to do with things and say this is evil.

This is good goodbye to Joseph.

Joseph and his brothers what you meant for evil God meant for good. So that throws a hold of the monkeywrench of the conversation. I remember one of the most devastating and informative prayers I ever heard was preparing to go into a refugee camp where all of the people that were in this Were deemed by the US government at that time to be enemies that they had no potential to do anything good in the world and therefore they would never be admitted to United States. They would ever be given in humanitarian relief by anybody in the United States and yet God had opened the door for us to go to these people and be with them and one of the prayers of the pastors with us at the time was someone from the country were in was not one of the American said simply. Father, we are about to step into your brokenness in us a broken world out there, let the breaking begin with me. I never got them in that same vein, pastor friend of mine who's been one of the most important voices in my life prayed one time he was missing. Think of Gracie and me. He just was praying this and he said Lord, may we suffer well and I thought you know this world is broke and all of Jesus disciples suffered, including Jesus sharing in the sufferings of Christ.

What is that even mean nothing. Sometimes you know you're being martyr or you getting beaten for Christ or their self-flagellation emotionally and physically. Sometimes I think sharing the sufferings of Christ, there is a recognition of just the brokenness of this world and we grieve over and I will say this I was talking to John Erickson thought of the other night about this very thing. The further I get into this whatever wisdom I get. It seems to always come with great sadness because I see brokenness more clear and she said well maybe sadness might not be the right word, it may be a soberness about it. Peter and I thought okay I'll take that because I think that's a good word that there's a sobering quality to realize this world is broke and it is filled with devils is Martin Luther's hit the it is a broken world that we are participating with Christ in sparing his sufferings and then one day were going to see it revealed in the redemption thereof and is an important point I want to talk about the redemptive worldview right now because we seem to be losing her grip on that one. Big time. The evangelical church in the West.

The answer for many pastors in many churches simply just get us out of here. I pray in the rapture as quick as possible. I don't buy that. That is the solution to what God put us here for to escape Earth is not an escape room. It is God's creation. So how's a response need to be recalibrated. I think Jerry Seinfeld said it best. Okay, the great Christian philosopher that great theologian Jerry Saville said you go to the best of knowledge are stored. There's no such thing as regular straight. Everything is maximum strength. In other words, whatever will kill the human body back it off just a hair. And that's what I want.

We are so consumed with pain relief that were not seeing God in it were closing our minds in our ears in our hearts to allowing him to minister to us in it. Joseph asked Butler for Pharaoh, remember me when you come to Pharaoh and he did. It took him a couple years for a long time, and Joseph stuck there. He wanted to get out of that. Jesus in Gethsemane said Lord I really don't want this, yet not mine, but then we look at these patterns where it is human for us. If you look to the Psalms you see this all God get me out of this, but I will trust you regardless, the humanness of us wants to get us out of here, but the Holy Spirit working in us says be steadfast.

Be still and know that he is God. All these churches really get into the eschatology thereof listened.

I'd love to step into his kingdom. Right now, but I'd not to get all that worked up about all the prophecies in this and that of the four blood moons of the field, whatever. How does that help me take care of my crippled wife which is what I'm called to do today.

That's just the headspace I we have the luxury of course. Not having to have acute suffering in our tent every day and so I can speak about these things and bring people like you and I can help give us some moderation in our responses and with talk a lot of the program before about defiance, not being a defining trait of faithfulness just is not there is no fruit of the spirit, call defiance the things that God is calling us to be in this world are not defiant but compliant with his will as he make it possible for us to follow him and he says be perfect like I am perfect.

He's trying to perfect us for the reason in the purpose he has for us right now were not to be perfect.

We are called to go follow him perfectly into the mass and not be ashamed or afraid of the fact ready go places where we just don't have a handle on it all that were to be called upon to take risks out of love and the trustee that she going to want to use us and that is proud of us that he's glad were part of his family and doesn't want us just run away and hide because he knows sufferings of their and he wants us to address it and be with it and to be his hands, his feet every stinking day were out there and my heart is crushed beer when I see so many people who claim to follow Christ in open defiance run and hide and claim it's a victory that really really bothers me.

So I would love to see the Christians be the ones that can hold onto those who are freaking out and are not the ones that were doing it when suffering or pain comes. I think that we are reaping a lengthy harvest of self-indulgent that we've done. As believers, when you have money in the bank in prosperity and health and things are going well that God is really blessed and we don't have all of those things in any substantial thing about our definition.

God is not blessed. That is counter to a lot of things that I see in Scripture. There times when a system or dustless increases the harvest of all the stuff but there's not any balance because he also said they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength.

Okay, we focus on the renew understrength amount like wings really vulgar walkabout growth.

We focus on that.

But there's that waiting on the Lord clause if by people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray that I will hear from heaven, I will heal their land. There's an implication that the land is not healed, tells us to be still and wait.

But there's this implication that there's going to be sufferings that he's going to deliver us from it.

It's those parts that we jump ahead to the promise of restoration but not the principle of being still in waiting and trusting in the now and the not yet. I guess is someone once said nobody wants Gracie to stop suffering anymore.

The great she does and me that order.

But what we do. If he doesn't choose to do that. Do we shake our fist at God and rejecting, and we get all mad and whatever a be do we just live like bitter, angry people do we allow ourselves to be beaten down to we open ourselves up to people to come up and say the most horrific theologically inaccurate things to blessed or do we stay steadfast and say you know the steadfast love of the Lord never ceases, his mercies never come to. They are new every morning important answer the questions coming up tomorrow as Peter Rosenberger joins us once again help the student when you pray about where to invest in the kingdom of God around the world. Thank you for including us. We can't do this work without you and we can introduce you to the inspiring stories of the kingdom. If you don't send us simply go to our website, compassion, radio.com, our toll-free number is manned during business hours. Pacific time at 1-800-868-2470.

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God bless your friends on today's compassion radio we could show people a lot of pictures of Jesus. But it doesn't compare to touching and being in the presence understanding the deep relationship that we are called to with God.

He's not interested in us taking pictures of him is interested us and just being in him and him being in us. My friends and welcome back for part two of them in unity with our good friend to Rosenberger from the hope for the caregiver broadcast.

If you miss the powerful part one it's on a website, compassion, radio.com subject that out later today will pick it up right where we left off with Peter's explanation of what waiting on the Lord really means.

Thanks for joining us today. I think that we are reaping a lengthy harvest of self-indulgent that we've done. As believers, when you have money in the bank and prosperity and health. Things are going well that God is really blessed and we don't have all of those things any substantial thing about our definition.

God is not blessed. That is counter to a lot of things that I see in Scripture. There times when a system or dustless increases the harvest of the stuff, but there's not any balance. There's this implication that there's going to be sufferings that he's going to deliver us from it.

It's those parts that we jump ahead to the promise of restoration but not the principle of being still in waiting and trusting in the now and the not yet. I guess is someone once said nobody wants Gracie to stop suffering anymore. The great she does and me that order. But what we do. If he doesn't choose to do that. Do we shake our fist at God and rejecting, and we get all mad and whatever a bead we just live like bitter, angry people do we allow ourselves to be beaten down to we open ourselves up to people to come up and say the most horrific theologically inaccurate things to blessed or do we stay steadfast and say no steadfast love of the Lord never ceases, his mercies never come to an end. They are new every morning and that becomes the challenge for us as we look at these things and that applies to broken bones that applies to imputation that applies to marital difficulties that applies to coven 19 that applies to cerebral palsy that applies to autism that applies across the board.

As we look at this recognize that his father says God get this problem. He thinks he's got it open and were so busy trying to be a consultant to the Almighty he is not Aladdin. He is not the genie from Aladdin.

He is not Santa Claus.

He is not the cosmic concierge is God all by himself and I heard a great thing the other day.

We can't possibly know all that he is.

Some people may feel converse with that but I don't have to know what he knows be called he's asked me to be.

I don't know Bram I would like to think that I own these concepts are just now tiptoeing to know you and I talked about the fact that both of us in different ways because of the kind of experience we had make us as something was, the experts were not experts with specialists we've had experience the things I've experienced I got is now using or is calling me to try to use it as effectively as possible to encourage and to comfort and to challenge others in the platform that I have you got your people to God's put in your hand saying you can't reach these people and your experiences valid in reaching them, but it's not about evangelizing like were trying to convert them to something is simply being God in the flesh in front of them with enough mercy and enough grace to say these things are real and their eternal and they're sustaining me right now and wouldn't it be wonderful if you could know that to mean what better witnesses there to the real living faith is simply to live it. Well, there's no say in the Army that the leaders alter the gathering members where the Jeep was parked.

I think sometimes we get so filled up with all the knowledge in the academia that we forget the basic things went wish the Jeep it what solid ground here.

This was driven home to me and I'm about to get myself into a lot of trouble here so you edit this accordingly.

Laura I come from the old school. When Gracie first got hurt know you dealt with the surgeon you talk with the doctor.

Yada yada yada. Well, the world is changed a lot, and you got a lot of physicians assistant succumb to deal with you and you got nurse practitioners and so forth. There's like the first between you and the physician attend to be drawn little bit more to nurse practitioners and physician assistants. I'm not disparaging the career I'm not disparaging anything all the letters need to go to Bram Florio and Karen Frantz.

I noticed that the nurse practitioners tend to have more clinical experience there actually engaged like that and nurses as well.

Gracie is been treated by hundreds upon hundreds of nurses and I counted up one time.

There's well over 100 doctors who treated her so I think I'm in a unique position to assess this. Some people come in, filled with academic knowledge into the rooms there at hospitals and then some come in, filled with clinical experience, then there's that rare group that comes in with both and I thought what can you learn from this I learned about this with Christian ministry. There are some ministers who come into the pulpit filled with great academic knowledge and then there are some that come with extraordinary amount of pastoral skills of experience and then there's that rare breed that bring both once you realize that you can start seeing that clearly and in the way they approach the sermons in the way they do things I don't some guys who are just amazing pastors, but there sermons are, altering it top. They're not as polished and people dismissed because are not a silly great speaker, but they are wonderful pastors and then there's some that are great speakers but you don't want them near your hospital room. Anything offered then you get that rare breed that I know that because I was raised by one of that's my father and there is no substitute for touching the brokenness of this world.

That's a long way to get to it.

If you really want to minister to the sick and the broken and the weary, the lost of the dying. As Jesus said, the sick naked hungry prisoner thirsty you could have to touch you and spend time with.

Don't try to fix it minister to.

There is a difference when it comes to those who are excellent doctors.

As you mentioned work, nurse practitioners, they take responsibility there. The buck stops with them.

Assistants always have some of the bucket up to, but the one who takes supreme responsibility for the action if they know what they're talking about and they know how to talk well they can lead you into a decision that's a cooperation between those will be the hands of God's healing in your wife's body and those who need to be encouraged and loved by you in their work.

You have roles to play here in God seals.

All of that and can bless all of that. I've seen it happen in our lives to that when God's hand is on this you just sense that he's in there in the room and that Dr. the nurse practitioner. The other professionals with you and you are in cooperation with the spirit pieces in that room, great things can happen. Miracles can happen and it's not just about how well he moves a scalpel. It has to do with God literally guiding hands and hearts at times that are critical and I think about how may people are ready to lose people because a coven they're facing that right now how do we help them and well that's was in happen or how we see the miracle of healing happen and are scared so as we wrap up our time in these programs. Peter want you to come to talk about entering into that again was someone who may be very new to this like what you experience with Gracie. Well what you're saying that it brought to mind a conversation I had with the nurse over there is a left went crashing the hotel room across the street. They're not real keen on staying with patients in hospitals anymore, but this young nurse was going to take care Gracie to the 25 years old. I have children I was taking care, Gracie, 10 years before she was born that they could, but I gave this young nurse a great gift and I think this is in principle what we can do for each other as believers in a literacy Gracie has three kinds of pain she has her normal pain which is substantial and then she has this new insult to her body, which is significant, and then she has her third time, which is the fear of getting in pain that she can't get out and I said all three are valid and when you care for her.

It is important to remember that in the best way you're going to get through this with her.

If she has a tough night is to say to her. Gracie don't you worry, we got this we got this.

I'm on it were going to get through this. We can do this you project that confidence that column is that competency that were going to get through this. I didn't tell her said Bill showed he fears you feel HLF.

But I did say that if you will be confident in your skills, what you can do and be prompted the professionalism that you bring your to get through this and she did and I sit and then pass it on to the next shift and so forth and so on. I think this is what we do as believers with each other is to recognize the reality of the brokenness that there is more than just one kind of pain going on when you see thing. It could be anything amended in our case we deal with it in the in the medical world, but you think about people who are dealing with family member who's an addict and alcoholic. There's lots of layers of paint here. We can never can never as believers underestimate the torment that is fear. Scripture says it best and we can't underestimate what this does to people. And if we don't speak to it with clarity and the assurance of God's provision in your afraid of what you don't know and he's not going to tell us everything that we want to know but what he's going to do is reveal himself to us and then we say okay now that I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I will fear no evil for thou art with me.

This becomes our message. This becomes everything that we do as believers.

So when we go out into a coven filled world. When we go out into a politically charged landscape. There's unsettled is that the whole thing in Afghanistan on the southern border or are $30 trillion in debt or all of the craziness of this world can we as believers walk into that with confidence and competence that deep conviction of knowing that he who began a good work in us is faithful to completed to the day of Christ Jesus, and we don't have to say you, Lord, give me here. We don't have to start praying for the rapture. He's going to come back when he comes back, but what we can do is Lord, give me insight help me see you help me here when you see what you hear. Yeah. And I think that if we are so busy trying to get out of here were going to miss his heart. Yes, we will and he did not come here to get out here. He came here to go to the cross. And once that was complete. Then he left, but he had a specific mission of this wire we somehow thinking that we are not to share in his mission which is to come and heal the brokenhearted bond of the wound. Set the captive free and then when he's ready for that. The in he'll let us know it's our strong desire to be going deeper to go farther to be braver than we've ever been to bring you the stories that you just won't hear anywhere else by simply asking you to keep giving us and we can get back to the world through our strategic ministry partners and you with inspiring programming on this radio station and over the Internet. The first best way to reach us is the website compassion radio.com you can also support us with a call at 1-800-868-2478. You can also text compassion to 53445 to get right through your phone. It also put a stamp on an envelope and mail your gift to PO Box 2770, Orange, CA 92859 and know this. Your gift is deeply appreciated. Thank you for loving us in this way. His mission is to come and heal the brokenhearted bond of the wood set the captive free and then when he's ready for that. The in he'll let us know. Indeed, and that truth seems like a very severe mercy and yet it is real. Real freedom begins and we can find real joy. I think so.

I think so as well and Gracie was listening to a lot of gospel songs she said have you ever noticed how many of these talk about heaven. I'm drawn to songs that talk about sustenance because it's your experience and I am praying for more people to experience the God who shows up and because were not going to really worship a God that we not experienced really mean to talk about them how you really worship something that you don't really believe is there are never experience you got experience something and that's why think people who have suffered Peter have a much deeper understanding of how deep and rich is the love of God because they've seen that expressed and poured out into their cup when they needed it most, and I realize this is a God of mercy and love and sustenance and strength and presence. This is not a God of answering questions and setting all evils right when we want them to be set right is not as you said before, the cosmic concierge.

God knows us and he's so thrilled that were in it, and he's so thrilled to be with us in it as well. We so rarely given permission to really be present right were accounts in the center of our pain answering those questions that we keep asking ourselves otherwise and got response. He always does respond to these things because he loves his children, but we don't always like his answers but he would always know he loves us. We don't know that until actually close you and Sandy and your families been here.

Our Pl. in Montana couple times here the last couple months. That's good hopefully continue on.

Now that your little closer to us. You can take a lot of pictures of where we live, and they are spectacular pictures but it doesn't compare to just being in place just doesn't compare. We can show people a lot of pictures of of Jesus, if you will the metaphor continue but it doesn't compare to touching and being in the presence understanding the deep relationship that we are called to with God. He's not interested in us taking pictures of him is interested us it just being in him and him being in us and in Christ in us the hope of glory for listeners of this program to keep in mind that you don't have to go would fabricate some kind of ministry you don't have to go at increase at the it's going to flow from the Jesus that you're engaged, you know people's about. I don't have the gift of evangelism. Well some people have the gift of singing, but I see them do that every week you don't need some kind of oratorio skills to tell people about your children – me, but my children, I don't need to do a sermon prep on that and tell you about my children as I know the in their part of my life and and I think where we do this, as believers, so let us set the example so that you know we can go out into this world that is so crazy and there's so much rhetoric and vitriol. We don't have to agree on everything don't have to do that. This is not like the disciples of the room at Pentecost were there all in one accord, which would put it, agree on all the things out there that are in this world but what we can agree on is that we don't have to be anxious about anything, the peace of God as is all understanding, will guard our hearts and our minds to the day of Christ Jesus, that we can agree on, because he has promised us so when Gracie is dealing with these things.

It's painful, it's hard and I leave with this Jesus said blessed are those who mourn for they shall be comforted. How do we mourn for so busy demanding that God fix this or were ranging over despairing morning is different than just wailing and crying. There's a morning which is an intentional place of looking at it and seeing it for what it really is, and we mourn over that and then we will be comforted.

Blessed are those who mourn for they shall be comforted and so many of us are confusing.

Morning with raging out of despairing. This is not what I wanted, rage, rage against the dying of the light has far as I get it from Scripture, even David himself, who was a very passionate over-the-top kind of guy and probably bipolar, even he did not rage God, but he understood lament and he had a channel he had a skill he used deport all of himself into the thing he was able to do to express it would happen to be music, and that was his channel to God. But it's not a defiant when I never see when he's faced with truth and with the presence of God, did David ever stand up there and say I'm shaking my fist at you and Daria do some about this.

Something always in his heart, crumbled and softened when God came close.

I hope that like you said, these are things that I don't own but I am owning their more poorly. I think they're owning me and these are things that I learned from watching relentless suffering and when you deal with this for a lifetime migration. I have, you've got to find solid ground and for us. This is what solid ground. Looks like it. It's a very narrow lane but it is a solidly and that I don't have to freak out. I don't have to despair and whale and flail around. I don't have to reach out.

I can be still settle my spirit down as David did exactly.

I would normally ask. He was a musical at the end of our conversation because you have such a great gift of that but I'm simply asking to play out a piece number through talking second layer that underneath what we do here before we have you sit down and play us out with one of your beautiful worship songs I like you to tell me if you're praying for those who are experiencing suffering ways.

I've never expressed before the new beast of this, there's the COBIT or something else, some other kind of strain has come upon them this past couple of years.

It is been out of left field. As far as their concern. How would you pray over them. You know, sometimes I accept myself and I don't know how to pray. Sometimes, and I wrote out a thing called the caregivers prayer. I'll sum it up this I'm not up to this task and I would suggest to you that anyone who thinks that they are will find out eventually that they're not, but he is and he can sustain in this even with the outcomes that seem so horrific. I had a lady called and must show the other day she was struggling and she reached out to me and think every parent with Alzheimer's and she said that they both had sexually molested her as a child while and she struggling with. I'm not going to go in there it to that level of trauma and be glib. I'm not kind to that that is unthinkable to me to go in there somehow think I could even offer this moment advice or anything because I'm going to do it. All I can do is point her to solid ground, which is the Savior who does understand the state who recognizes how brokenness is and has done something so magnificent on the cross that is redeeming.

This that I take great comfort in knowing that that redemption works backwards all the way through to every piece of this brokenness is he wipes away all of our tears. We mourn over all these broken things and so I would just pray for myself and for others that we learn to just be still. Lord, let me just be still settle by heart because I don't know how to do when I am seeing the flailing's around of myself.

I see Gracie in agony.

Sometimes I just hang my head in weariness only know how to pray in the spirit Scriptures teaches that the spirit groans on our behalf. And sometimes that's all we can do is groan and so that's why play the hymns that are playing in the music that a play is because sometimes I don't have the words. One of the things about the Jewish world is when they have the sitting Shiva. They just sit with you know they don't instigate a conversation when you're mourning over the loss of a loved one, and I think sometimes as Christians we are so quick to rush and there's try to say something wise.

Maybe we could just sit there. I don't know that that answers your question very well, but I'm not very good at coming up with the prayer because I don't know what to say. Sometimes I just sit with them.

This rabbi probably is one of things you do is is you hold their hand in your hand, palm up, you hold her hand and then you put your other hand on top of that he and he said that is one of the most intimate meaningful things you can do in times of grief and sorrow and loss you touch each other and we told each other we don't castigate each other for grieving. We grieve with.

That's what I did with that lady who called in.

I grieved with her and I sit with her and she processes that point her to a place where there solid ground, but I would never dream that I would even know what to say how to pray he does for somebody was at 40 years of experience in that. I guess what I'm learning from what you said Peter is that the greatest prayer we have often when we have no words for it and don't know how to get behind the curtain of that kind of grief is simply to be present because Jesus's presence, and in doing that sitting with people holding their hands if we can to be that kind of present is a prayer. It is inviting Jesus to be present. So if we have nothing we can say to at least show up when I was sick making hungry and thirsty in prison. He was pretty clear about that is the essence there is a place of quiet rest near to the heart of God.

A place where sin cannot molest near to the heart of God is the hymns. That's the best I got a Peter we are praying that over you and Gracie and I encourage her to pass regular listeners to do the same as you sit down and kinda play us out here on that worship, base rent, take a moment of silence ourselves just to listen and to worship and ask God when were facing the impossible. We don't know how to respond or someone around us and suffering ways we can't comprehend that what we do next, has eternal power. If were willing to present so think about those thoughts friends as peers play Elizabeth Montana and of course his incredible ministry hope for the caregiver heard nationally on Saturdays across many Christian stations. Thanks for sharing a bit more about your heart because I think every time we peel away the onion here. We get down to something is even more tender and more important every time I appreciate your friendship deeply. Where praying God's cover and his hands holding yours through the neck struggles you and Gracie will face and the challenges inherent march headlong into and trust God to cover you.

So thank you again for sharing your story. Thank you. Quote well, let him filled with the Spirit till all shall see Christ only, always living in me and that only such a great gift. These hymn writers are given to the church and so would we don't know what to pray. Pick up the him back to Fred. Thank you, when you pray about where to invest in the kingdom of God around the world. Thank you for including us. We can't do this work without you and we can introduce you to the inspiring stories of the kingdom. If you don't send us simply go to our website, compassion, radio.com, our toll-free number is manned during business hours. Pacific time at 1-800-868-2470. If you get voicemail. Just leave a phone message and we will call you back as soon as the office is open, you can also write us and send your gift by mail to compassion radio, PO Box 2770, Orange, CA 92859 I bring Florida join us for the next compassion radio or online compassion radio.com.

God bless your friends some of you know the remarkable story of Peter's wife Gracie and recently Peter talk to Gracie about all the wonderful things that emerge from her difficult journey. Take a listen Gracie when you envision doing a prosthetic limb outreach. Did you ever think the inmates would help you do that, not in a million years.

When you go to the facility run by core civic and you see the faces of these inmates that are working on prosthetic limbs that you helped collect from all of the country that you put out the plea for and their disassembly sell these legs like what you have your own prosody and arms and orange everything when you see all this makes me cry because I see this on their faces and I know I know what it is been locked in place where you can't get out without somebody else allowing you to get out the hospital. These men are so glad that they get to be doing is one day and said something good with my did you know before you became an amputated parts of prosthetic limbs could be recycled and had no idea I thought Peg leg. I thought a wooden legs.

I never thought of titanium and carbon legs and flanks the sea legs and all that. I never thought about.

As you watch these inmates participate in something like this, knowing that there there helping other people all providing the means for the supplies to get over there. What does it do to you. Just on the heart level. I wish I could explain to the world. What I see in here and I wish that I can able to come and say the this guy right here in Africa with that. I never not feel that way out every time you know you always make me have to leave. I don't want to leave. I I feel like I'm at home with them and I feel like we have a common bond that would never expected that only God could put together. Now that you've had experience with it what you think of the faith-based programs. The core civic offers. I think there is absolutely awesome and I think every person out there that have faith-based programs ties the return rate at the man that are involved in this particular faith-based program and other ones like it and I know that this one car is an amazingly low rate compared to those who think that that is with me just has something to do with God to help if you want to donate use prosthetic limb, whether from a loved one who passed away or you somebody well-groomed you donated some of your own for the data out of the please go to staining with.com/recycle gain. We