Roe v. Wade Overturned: Now What?

Well, welcome to Focus on the Family I'm Jim Daly here in the studio on Friday. Recording this for you here on Monday. We've just learned this morning the news of the historic announcement from the Supreme Court that has overturn Roe V Wade.

That's after 49 years and 63 million children not here today because of abortion. No court has the right to deprive the child of the right to live. I think that's been surfacing over the years, especially with technology that shows that this is an individual human being.

Somehow they wanted to convince you, just a clump of cells up until the ninth month and then boom outcomes. A baby that is a baby from the beginning, and this has been the debate can we take innocent human life because of its inconvenience and the answer is no. And today, the court has agreed with that. This decision is really just push it back to the states. I don't know what you hear from the pro-abortion community, but the radical position that they take that this somehow is to prevent a woman in a blue state. For example, to get an abortion is just not true. It does create the opportunity for the Christian community step up in red states, blue states to help women and that will be the plan going forward and focus is going to be involved in that. Also the support of pregnancy resource centers around the nation. We work closely with them and we are grateful for their hard work as well today. I've invited to good friends scholars to join me and talk about this decision and its impact I have on the phone Prof. Helen Alvaro and Dr. Al Mohler Prof. Alvarez is a law professor at George Mason University, where she teaches family law, law and religion and property law. Dr. Al Mohler is an evangelical leader, serving as the president of the Southern Baptist theological seminary and he's in esteemed authority on these issues and the former Focus on the Family board member Prof. Alvarez Dr. Al Mohler thanks for being with us here. Focus thank you so well we've recorded with both the before on legal and theological issues, and I just so appreciate two leading thinkers giving us time to talk this through hell and let me start with you explain to our listeners what the Supreme Court ruling on the Dobbs case means and how does it affect abortion policy going forward.

Prior to jobs in 1973 in row and then repeated in 1992 in Casey Supreme Court held that the Constitution's 14th amendment. The word liberty contains a right to abortion throughout nine months and for any reason.

When the Constitution protects that right. That means, states cannot inherit the states were essentially banned from protecting unborn human lives. As of today, the court says that Casey and row, and I think I can use this way act nonsensical that they do not even legal reasoning. According to the Dobbs majority opinion. They were a mess, confusing, unworkable, wrong about the text of the Constitution about the history of the law in the United States and about the prior cases they claim to rely on.

So as of today moving forward. Every state is permitted once again to make laws about abortion somewhat protected.

Some will protect unborn human life least some or all times during pregnancy.

Why so appreciate that reference to nonsensical because I think on the pro-life side.

That's been the claim all along.

It's hard to defend women when half the abortions are women that are the abortions being done against Dr. Moeller let's get you in here. I so appreciate you making time for this. You're one of our leading theologians in this country. Prof. Alvarez obviously is bring that legal perspective, how are you feeling today with the news of Roe being overturned Jimmy know we've been working this for very long time so I have to put this within the context of God's mercy and just say this is the day the Lord is made we will rejoice and be glad in it. As a Christian we understand this is the beginning of an even bigger battle, but by God's grace earned the right to enter those battles that the congressional level where it will undoubtedly have to be thought out and all 50 states. But I appreciate so much Prof. Alvarez on this in any doubt that the reality is that Justice Alito got right to the heart of the issue when he wrote that from the day. Roe V Wade was handed down.

It was on a collision course with the Constitution and you know as a Christian theologian and is that a constitutional essential to point out that every wrong method of treating the Scripture is a parallel in a wrong method of dealing with the Constitution and Ito liberal theology has as basically abandoned the Scripture and liberal jurisprudence sought basically to abandon the Constitution. The majority, the court told us right back to the text of the Constitution and that we should be very thankful that is good and it's again to your points of data rejoice. The work is not over. That's one of the concerns I've had this simply puts it back in the hands of all the states so if you think about the spiritual battleground now goes from a federal level to the state level and boy we as the Christian community really have to redouble our efforts to help women to help the men involved in their lives as well as the children so that I would hope eventually even if Congress tries to develop a law that gives a woman the right to an abortion in the future that this event will create the desire not to do that that the immorality of taking a child's life because of finances or whatever that it's never worth it to murder a child for the benefit of that person's future. So let me talk a bit about that to both of you knew both can respond the negative reaction were taping this on Friday were going to be airing it today Monday. Not sure what's gonna take place over the weekend. You have Jane's revenge in these other groups that are threatening you know to do damage and to riot, which seems to be their only means of expression. Unfortunately, let me play clip from Speaker Pelosi and get your reaction to her this morning. Supreme Court is eviscerating a Masson's rights and endangering the health and safety at the Congress will continue to act to overcome this extreme is an impact extremism and protect the American people today the Republican controlled Supreme Court 1530 dark extreme goal for them. When a woman's right to make their own dissent by protected health decisions.

American women today have less freedom than their mothers with row in their attempt to destroy it. Radical Republicans are charging ahead with their crusade to criminalize health freedom. Now let's go to your first your response to that rationale that this is an extreme moment that the judges are extreme. How do you react to that order.

So extreme there in line with the hundred 87 years of American jurisprudence before Roe V Wade. Another words, the progressives in this great cultural divide. I think it just assuming they're honest they honestly believe that human rights are are invented by human beings to be politically negotiated to whatever extreme you can politically get away with and then yielded their understanding is that history is unfolding so that the next thing you know from abortion. LGBT Q rights, especially the tea and all the rest. Don't forget the + at the end of that. This is a court decision that just effectively refutes the entire logic of their case so predictably they're pretty upset right and I think Helen for me that use of the word extreme in its seems odd that for us the pro-life community. Trying to preserve life encourage a mother to get through her pregnancy to make the right decision. A decision shall never regret in my opinion that that somehow where the extremists because we don't support the killing of children.

Maybe you can explain that to me here in Washington you hang out at the dinner parties. How is that that is a political partisan statement that is in it so far removed from the question of the humanity mother that child in an abortion facility.

It is so far removed from the opinion itself, which is a product of 49 years of fabulous scholarship. The pro-life movement didn't stick around and stamp its speed and say you so bad why can't you see the unborn child is valuable to read books and had symposia and wrote amicus briefs and and scholarly articles, and this is the fruit of them in their true to actually say truthful things like if liberty in the Constitution is the American experience in all the laws that were passed in the states and what they show about who we are in a country that banned abortion for 200 years doesn't. Included is a liberty. What reason, reason, and she's a beautiful and that opinion. If you read it with that you is that and I just feel happy because I saw something true. And because someone is actually reading the Constitution as if it was the People's document doesn't just belong to five justices so so good that Dr. Moeller let me turn to you. You recently cited new data from the Guttmacher Institute that indicates abortion has been on the rise in recent years. After a 30 year decline in effect, the New York Times reported in 2020 that one in five pregnancies were ending in abortion. That's a shocking number. How do you think the court's decision will impact those numbers are begin to see fewer abortions obviously or will these blue states that like Colorado, I'm sad to say, our home state. There they want to be an abortion tourist destination to weight what he think the outcome will be fully listed on the grid find ourselves into America's Buddhist them be more like three and as of this is my analysis. I think there are those who would clearly agree with that. There are some deeply blue states, Illinois, Rhode Island, California of Massachusetts that are going to be abortion destinations to meet Gavin Newsom and is talking about paying women to come to California to have abortions paid for by the state to state like Alabama is the opposite state like Mississippi, from which that K or artistic like Louisiana or even a Democratic governor actually voted for a restriction on abortion just to respect those are two different America's, but there's 1/3 American third America includes states of Colorado, a bit there where is still possible to look at potential restrictions on abortion, but we got a long way to go to get to any elimination of abortion. One thing we can do. We can be there to foster children adopt children, do whatever we can to help mothers in crisis ends of the political battles can be very uneven and I do divided into that trio that the deep blue states that I think make it even bluer.

The deep red states to make it even redder. In that sense and then released is somewhere between 10 and 20 states where this is to be an ongoing battle from year to year, but I don't want to take too much time here but the bigger issue. I think the president today and Speaker Pelosi made very clear that they want to push for national legislation and, ultimately, I think both sides.

Note that's where the big debate will head right and Helen from a legal perspective when you look at that. That's kind of what the court is often said, especially the originalists, the court should not get involved in these deep social issues. The legislative branch should determine a law and if possible pass that law then it will be challenged and then the court will look at it to say is that law that Congress passed.

Is it constitutional that's kinda how the government is supposed to work and this is one of the difficulties that we've had where the progressives have use the court often to get laws through, in essence, get laws through through court decisions. Is that fair yesterday. I want to sound negative hope and it is about the feds states have legislative authority. That's called the police power any law for health, safety, welfare based also say morals that can went back to any line that Aryan states can do the federal legislative branch article 1 of the Constitution gives supposedly pretty limited powers to a federal consciousness were reserved to the states. The feds can do things like interstate commerce in a raisin sport and I'm a tax-and-spend take care federal lands so they can't actually pass a law that just says abortion is legal in the 50 states because it doesn't fit any of those article and powers.

But here's what they can do and you've seen they can claim that something they're doing affects interstate commerce.

Abortion affects interstate commerce were to make a law about something on abortion that affects interstate commerce, waiting to get federal money. The states, but not unless you allow unlimited abortion wagon and let federal contractors build planes to supply healthcare. Not if you don't provide free abortion for all your employees where can I make sure that every federal land has an abortion clinic on not with the article and powers they have. They keep straightforwardly legalized abortion in the 50 states, but they can use these article 1 powers and they can slip through various you know. Suppose limits and and can't think of how one is sick agenda. This is instead of all the things this country needs right now were going to be take article 1 powers and slip abortion and whatever we can again when you think about the abortion process itself agenda and it's so dismaying in that regard.

Let me Dr. Mo you mentioned Pres. Biden again to Helen's point, you know this is a moral issue in the public square, plenty people are upset if if you lean toward that direction. We get it. You don't need to write as we understand that you think it's a political issue, we disagree with think it's a moral issue in the public square. That's why we fight it is also why I recorded four RC life event piece with former Democrat Dan Lipinski from Illinois who's a pro-life Catholic and he lost his seat because he wouldn't budge. Being a pro-life Democrat so I did it were in the fight every day. I understand it. I wish it were political I was there more Democrats are pro-life but pointing out the Pres. Biden in a clip that we got from today, his speech I wanted to play this and get both of your your responses.

Make no mistake, this decision is a combination of a deliberate effort over decades set balance of our law to realization of extreme ideology in a tragic error by the Supreme Court, in my view, the corners done. What is never done before expressly take away a constitutional right is so fundamental, so many Americans regarding the recognized the court's decision to do so will have real and immediate consequences. State laws banning abortion are automatically taking effect today jeopardizing the health of millions of women, some without exceptions so the women could be punished for protecting their health so extreme, the women and girls were forced to bear their rapist's child element. Let me go to you on the response.

First, because one of the things that I've seen when I'm engaging the pro-abortion community. They go to this 1% of rape. So 1% roughly abortions occur due to rape and the. The other 9998% of abortions is more of a birth control decision.

They have an unwanted pregnancy.

So if you could just elaborate on that for minute you know trying to prove the normality through the extreme.

You know that it's always rape in their minds.

This is where the argument was made by the feminists in the late 60s. In the early 70s.

Some of those of ours to argue that the like Andrea Dworkin that that you know if any marital act is an act of worship. Basically it. It's an effort to try to deny help abortion actually happens in this country and the vast number of abortions performed simply because a woman no longer must be pregnant and then you know that water present is a hard cases of breaking incest that you know etc. but you know every state. Regardless, frankly, of exactly how laws framed there. There are ways of legal right redress. There there are judges and and others.

You can do with issues of extremity. But you know I am just thankful the American people, at least millions of Americans have seen through that kind of argument absolutely and that that's really the point to use that extreme to explain the other 98, 99%. Dr. Moeller, let me ask you you he use the word child is kind of breaking from the ranks.

Democrats always refer to the pre-born child is a fetus a blob of tissue, etc. he seems to be consistently referring to the baby in the womb as a child. I'm not sure that he understands he is not speaking from the talking points, but in that regard. If you notice that yet. The dissembling reflexes that mean this is that that this is creation order natural law adjusted that the model date showing up in the fact that we eventually just have to acknowledge that is not just a moral truth held by pro-lifers. It's a moral truth. That the inhabitant of the womb is an unborn child a human being made in the image of God in the store child pops out. Remember they been trying to get away from talking about pregnant women. He is going to do about pregnant people because of the transgender revolution in the White House. Actually, you know has a style guide decisions about pregnant people you know when you're going after voters go after pregnant people he got to boating women, so I just found it very interesting that we just need to keep a script and then the memory on the staff.

Helen's right at the end here so I just wanted to ask.

I'm kind of an open question to you as you're a law professor what you think the future is what would you encourage both the Catholic Church and the Protestant church. What do we do, how do we move forward. How do we get into discussions with people and make one broad point. Obviously, I think all of the abstract to welcome women being able to bring children into the world and to make them feel that they they can do justice to the child justice to their financial necessity, etc. Krisha, but I think that the right of abortion has been sold on the right of autonomy, the right, just to make my own decisions, but I think that reinstating the idea that we are in relationship. First, we are first, God's children and then we are brothers and sisters to one another and that we owe one another.

I do think that all of those things are going to have to be theologically and morally and philosophically and culturally affirmed. Autonomy is going is gonna be help that we can provide.

If we don't see that Dr. Moeller let me pitch this to you get your response in same open question how do we move forward but I was at a pro-life event not long ago a woman was on the podium and she said the Judeo Christian ethos is that Christ showed us that we were to love the Lord our God with all of our heart, soul and mind, and the love our neighbor and that the greatest sacrifice a person could make is to lay their life down for another, and she turned that on the abortion issue and said now we are asking the baby to lay its life down for the mother and it's a real twist on the Christian ethic of how you given sacrifice to where it becomes somewhat selfish and I know these women are difficult circumstances, and Helen's right we get to do all we can to help them, but that idea that you terminate the life of the baby because of financial difficulty or something like that. My mom was in that spot. She thought about aborting me and I'm so thankful I was born to a poor white family in Compton, California nine is able to climb out and who has the right to say to somebody, you can't live because you don't have enough in your bank account.

How more absurd to the country become, you know, Jim. The gift of life. I think it's just deeply theological. It's intuitive because God made us in his image.

So actually people who wouldn't even claim any religious identity. I think that he clearly the vestige of that moral knowledge is there but in a society that is increasingly secularizing and and I think Prof. Albert is exactly right into worshiping autonomy. Abortion becomes almost sacramental gift of life is consistent throughout any civilization that survives the understanding that every single human life is precious and is to be defended, and abortion is not just about the numbers of babies aborted every year. It's about the moral corruption of the American heart and mind in such a way that makes all life diminished and expendable and contingent and that so I just look at this today. I say look I I believe the final word has to be praise and honor to God who vindicated his own truth, his own glory in his own gift of life it in. In this decision today and for that I'm just very grateful. We would gotta turn to a bigger battle tomorrow and that battle is joined, but I really think God for the wonderful gift of this decision today and in that spirit out. Can I ask you to just in this time together. I'm so grateful Helen for your time out of Washington and for you traveling on the road in Chicago. I ask you to pray for this country. Pray for those that don't see it our way and pray for us to do the job that needs to be done be my great honor Jim, thank you dear heavenly father come in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ to recognize he is the author and giver of life and all good things but that we think is the gift of life. We thank you for this Supreme Court decision today, we thank you you care about the ways that human beings and human societies organize themselves and thankfully you're not distant from history, but father we claim this for your glory. Today is a vindication of the sanctity of human life and father. We recognize the limits of the society that denies you, and recognizing anything is ultimately precious and infinitely worthy and indeed sacred but father we pray for those women who right now many struggle with abortion. We pray for those who may be outraged at this decision. Father I pray that somehow the truth may break through to some of them that they been holding onto an argument that simply is not credible and does not honor you father I pray that your church will be shown to be faithful in ministering to women and others in need. Father I pray that we will show the world what it means to welcome every single life every single life, regardless of age, condition, status of life in such a way that we honor you by honoring life and father. I just pray that your people will show up faithful and we pray for your providence and grace to this nation, even in coming days with threats of violence and all the rest.

Father, we commit all this to you thanking you for the honor of having this conversation today and just looking forward to the battle ahead and father, may we as Christians recognize that if it's worth fighting is because the battle was the Lords is in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

We pray on them. Then Dr. Moeller. I thank you for that prayer and I hope that the Lord answers every bit of it, especially opening the eyes of those who don't see abortion. The way we see it and we are here at focus going to continue to fight for their pre-born child. You know the way we've done that, the past 18 years is through option ultrasound. We've equipped pregnancy resource centers with 3D 40 ultrasound machines and by doing so, we know that it costs $60 to save the baby's life. We've hit almost 1/2 a million babies saved through the program and I want to invite you at this moment in our culture to be a part of the solution. As we move forward were going to continue to save children and help women and one of the ways you can do that today is your statement that I'm in a stand for life is to provide $60 gift for focus so that we can together save a baby's life, a gene and I do it every month and that's something we've committed to. Maybe you would consider that as well.

The bottom line is working have to do so much more. As we move forward. It's not just the ultrasound solution. But we are going to get engage with pregnancy resource centers to help them be the hero in their community. Hopefully through job training and job placement for these women and maybe their boyfriends or husbands so we can help them not only make the right decision for life but lead them into relationship with Jesus Christ. Wouldn't that be great and were looking forward to the Lord. Using this opportunity to not only lift up the great value of life, but to kind of bring shalom God's peace to these families that are in chaos, and to do so.

You can contact us here Focus on the Family call 1-800-232-6459 that's one 800 the letter a in the word family or see the links in the episode notes and from everyone here Focus on the Family let's praise the Lord together for the answer to this 49 year struggle with Roe versus Wade – do you ever wonder when it was like to meet face-to-face teaching on the leading Messiah/novelty Focus on the Family, I have called you by name. Based on the hit streaming theories immerse yourself in first century Galilee of his followers want to dive deeper into Scripture with everything Stern learn more about the chosen novel focusonthefamily.com chosen focusonthefamily.com lashed out that