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December 22, 2021 5:00 am
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And I just intensively was studying the Bible with direction and understanding and at some point and I don't exactly know when but it became so clear to me that God is a God of life. This character's heart. There should be no question that Dr. Betty Eubank describing how God brought her out of the abortion industry transformed her life. She's our guest on Focus on the Family your hostess focus Pres. and other Jim Daly I John four Joe we had a fascinating discussion with Patty and looking back I see two powerful themes in our conversation. First, God's word changes people. I'm sure it has changed you as you will hear later a friend happened to invite Patty to church and when she heard the Bible taught for the first time. She said the scales fell from her eyes, and it's a good reminder that the Holy Spirit does the work we just have to introduce people to God's word. Patty also reminded us that advocating for life is a spiritual battle. We can expect to win others over with simple logic and science. Unless we reflect the love of Christ. I really agree with you about that Jim and Dr. Eubanks story is remarkable as a listener you can find out more. In her book, unexpected choice and abortion doctors journey to pro-life get in touch with us to learn more about getting a copy our numbers 800 the letter a in the word family, let's go ahead and revisit this best of 2021 episode on today's Focus on the Family that he welcomed Focus on the Family. I'm actually thrilled to talk with you because you have such a unique perspective, given the journey God has put you upon. I mean, it's amazing how are you first exposed to abortion. Let's start there.
That's a good question. I grew up in a very liberal household and I remember talking to my dad when he was an intern he talked about the illegal abortions and women coming to the ER and infected and bleeding so I kinda went down a path of being pro-choice never really thinking I would become an abortion doctor that wasn't really wasn't my plan with all the history payroll.
He weighed women dying are becoming physically injured by illegal abortions even that's what was so prevalent among these women's groups when I was in medical school and I studied Roe V Wade read a lot of books on it. An interesting thing is answer between my my dad and what I was hearing and I didn't know that the numbers were inflated of the number of women dying every year from illegal abortion correctly.
Just put the number well I suppose I had my aha moment when I was reading Bernard Nathanson's book, Dr. Nathanson is a former abortion doctor. He has since died, but he talks about pre-Roe V Wade, how they knew that the only way they were going to get public support was to inflate the numbers of women dying of women bodily abortion is illegal abortions that the deaths and the injury and and so they really inflated the numbers and of course I didn't know that and it just really stopped me in my tracks and and I thought okay the foundation for doing what I was doing was gone because it was predicated on women's lives providing good healthcare saving women's lives, keeping them from some unsafe thing and I remember the women in the pro-choice women's groups had significant history and they would talk about their experiences and ill.
It was awful.
I think we have learned so much since Roe V Wade ultrasound was probably not even available in early Roe V Wade. It was just in its infancy and so there wasn't that option and we didn't know everything we know now so in the mid-90s 1990s when I was working at Planned Parenthood and I sill is just tissue you know it's it's just tissue. Let's go back to 1995. You begin working at Planned Parenthood describe. I think the first two years were part-time in the new third in your third year he became full-time to just describe the decision your own practice. You sold within the new moved into full-time eventually with Planned Parenthood. I had my own practice is very busy in obstetrics delivering babies and the solo of abortion doctor wanted to retire so he made an arrangement with Planned Parenthood and they approached me and asked me if I would do abortions one day a week there abortion day.
They didn't do abortions every day. They did them only as often as they had people so I would be doing delivering babies like the day before and the day after and then I go to the abortion day, which at the time wasn't too bad.
I mean, what, when I think back, and I think that's kind of mentally schizophrenic, you know, working really hard to save my OB patients and their babies in and then the next day going in doing pregnancy terminations that plant the seed of doubt for you a menu describe like that now was at the beginning of your uneasiness or your wrestling with this was that contradiction that you had to live through not really. I think sometimes as it, in order to do abortions. We put pretty thick binders on stay focused. That's that's the big part of the story right here just in essence, a scientist in your performing a scientific routine can't take care of this woman's difficulty in that regard.
While you're at Planned Parenthood you wanted to do more to invest in women's healthcare and Planned Parenthood didn't respond that well to that what what was the contradiction that you saw working at Planned Parenthood when they made me an offer to close my practice and work there full-time.
I don't even remember how I considered it, but I did and I ended up closing my practice and working there full-time and again. Still just doing abortion day and then doing non-abortion things on the other days that I was working that which could be OB, ultrasound, dating, ultrasounds, GYN exams, but in that healthcare the desired UConn were met with a cold shoulder is the way I read it that they weren't as interested in providing healthcare.
There were about queuing up the abortions and much keep it moving forward. Basically, did I read that correctly. Yeah, make no mistake there about money, and abortion is there top moneymaker and I remember that that we had a point where we break even. We had to do at least a him of his eight or 10 procedures to breakeven on abortion day and of course then we had considerably more procedures. So then anything above that would be profit. My passion has always been to help women to provide good healthcare and I didn't when I was working part time.
I didn't know abortion days are really crazy and I didn't really think about is as good healthcare not it was just, you know, busy, but when I worked there full-time. It really became apparent to me that that my hands were tied. As far as providing good healthcare.
That wasn't the objective point.
Yeah, the tying of the hands was used to smoke our number one priority. They have at the at that time it was pages and pages and big thick manual about protocol and what you can do and what you can't do a can say what you can't say what your job is, and it was very clear to me that I was a technician. It wasn't my job really to counsel or do anything that isn't in the manual. It is in fact you had a woman show up at the clinic who was struggling with the decision describe that interaction.
What was the outcome. Like I said in the book I dimly see the patient until she got into the exam room. The procedure room, which was a very small room and she'd already been paid or money and counseled signed all the forms had her labs are ultrasound and then she comes into the room and I have about two minutes to talk with them before I start the procedure and I always kinda get a feeling for if she was really ambivalent. She was clearly undecided and I said you seem to be struggling. She said was she really didn't want to do this, but she Artie paid her money and she traveled to get there and so she might've just go through with it and I so you you can reschedule if if you're unsure, reschedule come back in when you sure take more time you have to do this today. She was so afraid she wasn't in need of money back and I said you will get your money back, but she said no. I just want to go through with this and so I did and I probably said that one too many times where I said you know you you don't seem to have your mind made up in, and maybe she just reschedule that was kinda what I would say if they seem to be kind of uncertain I guess that wasn't the company line. The handlers were happy with yeah that's terrible that you do in the book describe the tumultuous environment of Planned Parenthood to speak to the clinic itself a lot of Lotta people listening have never had that experience. Obviously him that had a friend, but describe what your experience was as a physician working in their the cleanliness of the lack thereof.
The orderliness of the lack thereof with the clinic itself was a small building. It really wasn't all that clean and in the three years that I was involved with Planned Parenthood. There I never saw anybody from health department never and the people that they had counseling were not necessarily professional counselors but all they had to do is read the script and get them to sign. I many years later I went back into the same building and it had been converted first into a branch of the pregnancy resource Center, which is a pro wildlife group and but the first time I went into the building.
I think I lasted about 20 seconds before I had to run back out now is after it had been cleaned up and I know the pregnancy resource Center and the founder is a good friend of mine and she was telling me about when first while they bought the building anonymously and name actually cattle on a thousand hills. They bought the building and she said when they went there it was just filthy and I said yeah I mean I just didn't have that level of cleanliness that private clinic would have will limit just at in their petty, which is so important so many states that support abortion do so little to regulate those clinics that they are there just filthy. So far under the standard, and there have been some courageous people that have had the unit try to document that on video and they are the ones that end up in jail. So bizarre in everybody's claiming to be pro-woman and yet they let these women go into these environments that are discussed. Things are so far below even Third World standards. In some cases that it's terrible. It shows you their support of the ideology over truly the well-being of a woman and that that's plain to see. If you fight in this arena. Spiritually, you see it as clear as day, and again you see both sides of this and it's that's what's so amazing about your story in that context, let's move to your spiritual development. I mean you're working at Planned Parenthood a friend.
I believe invite you to come to a church around the corner from the clinic. If I remember the story correctly just mentioned there was a new pastor this church and I wasn't really looking for a church kind of going down the New Age path, searching you know people who are in New Age and other things are searching and he just cannot offhand said they have a new pastor you might like this church and I had I didn't know anybody in the church, very small, and that they had a new young pastor and I was just captivated and for the first time in my life. I just felt so drawn to this church and to the Bible and I it's like they talk about it in the Bible about the scales coming falling off your eyes and so I started reading the Bible and and starting to understand it and I for about a year and 1/2. I just intensively studied the Bible. I didn't have a real job at the time and I just intensively was studying the Bible with direction and understanding and at some point and I don't exactly know when but it became so clear to me that that God is a God of life at this character that's his heart. There should be no question that's powerful people can't miss that you're coming from being an abortion Dr. going to this church, reading the Scripture deeply, perhaps for the first time in your conclusion is a very smart person is God is a God of life. That's what that is what we proclaimed. That's our only brief with the abortion industry is that it's the exact opposite of God's heart for his creation than what happened. While that's all God and unite. I can't take any credit for any of this journey because I wasn't I wasn't looking as searching for something bigger than you know what at the beginning another piece of the puzzle that so important is that in 2004 I started working with a very solid pro-life Catholic doctor in our small town. She was unapologetically pro-life and I was still kind of in that I wasn't admitting that I had changed and I because basically all my friends and most my family were Pro choice and but just listening to her and her courage and she gave me strength to start thinking more of of that and so by 2006, which was the first vote yes for life campaign where really kind of the first and I really stepped out and said you know I have changed so that some 2001 to 2006. And that's five years of gradual painful realization that that's you know that's the sanctification process of what happens. That's what's so wonderful about the Lord removing the scales for more than that we begin to see what is true, but he is a God of life as you said mess was so beautiful you found out that a pro-life woman I think she was a nun had been praying for you for 10 years. I love this aspect of your story because it shows that the prayers of the righteous avail with much right so this is awesome. The people were praying for you by name. They knew what was taking place, but they still took the time to really a fair definition to love you enough to pray for you to someplace for me it is good. She's 90 to be 91 this month and you'd never met her, I had none of that process know she wrote me a letter in December 2006 and I was stunned and she said this was now 10 years that she had been praying for me based on an article in the local newspaper and she saw my name in and what caught her attention was. I said something that wasn't my goal to do a abortions full-time and she hung on that statement and started praying for me and then wrote me a letter when it through the vote yes for life campaign. I actually ended up doing a TV commercial or basically I said who I was and what I used to do and that I was asking them to vote yes for life on this ballot in the ballot initiative and so she saw that which was confirmation of her 10 years and then she she took the initiative to write me a letter didn't have the right address and went to the wrong clinic, but it found me and I was just flabbergasted. I was just stunned. It is a beautiful story of the things we can do you know also the things we should not be in that regard.
When you look at the battle in a group we see this is a spiritual battle know were all created in God's image, even those that are on the abortion side are created in God's image and we need to respect the certainly as believers in Christ. So what are the things that you've learned Patty about the battle and especially being in both camps as you have been what are the lessons that you can share with us in ways to be effective in communicating God's truth that he loves them. He cares for them, but that he is a God of life. I love the description.
What have you learned from both perspectives. When I was doing abortions and that would be people protesting on the sidewalk is IV driving in.
They never really screamed at me or anything but it never made me reconsider what I was doing and I the more I think about it were not going to make progress if we just stand on opposite sides of the street call each other names right and so really the reason I wrote the book was.
I want both sides to see the other side. I want people to beached. I want to challenge their thinking, because I hear things that aren't quite true on both sides, so I really want one people to to have a little more understanding. In that regard because again I want people to walk away with something in their hands that specificity of what to do. What is that or two or three things that actually do make a difference. Words are important. I think of the women who have been hurt by abortion and NL. They don't come up to you and say not been hurt by abortion. Well now they come up to me because I think they feel like I'm safe but I think of the churches and nobody wants to add pain to women and people who been hurt by abortion but in churches often times the things that the pastor say or the other very well meaning people are very hurtful and I think we need to make our churches a safe place for all sinners. I think of the women have had an abortion.
It could be five years ago 10 years ago. 20 years ago all families. I believe have been affected by abortion. They just don't know it.
It might have been a grandmother who might have an abortion pre-roll the way door post Roe V Wade, I just really believe everybody has been affected. Sure a penny right at the end here unmindful as we always are drawn people listening women particularly, Butman, to where abortion is impacted them directly.
Woman made the choice she may have never shared that with anybody and she's in the church. Now she's given her life to the Lord and that was a decision that may have been made 10 years ago. 20 years ago who knows 40 years ago and she still carries the burden and obviously as a doctor but also as a Christian woman. What would you say to her now tell someone speak out. Confront your pastor nodded for the whole church. You know, pull them aside and say you know and I respect that that your pro-life and everything that I've been hurt by abortion. I'm sure there's other people and we need to find a different language. We need to find compassion, we are all sinners.
If a pastor of the church doesn't hear now and then from somebody is churches been hurt by abortion than that pastor should wonder, why aren't people speaking up.
How can I be a safe place. Maybe you just need to announce that you know that your open to meeting with people have been hurt by abortion you not not judgmental and you want to lead them to a path of healing or provide resources and I remember a friend of mine said something about making our neighborhoods safe, you do you know your neighbor.
Do you have a young woman who might be in a crisis or are we reaching out to them or we just in our own little world where were surrounded by the people that look and act like us.
I quoted Moshe Diane it up conference. I did a couple weeks ago and he was a freedom fighter for Israel and he said if we want to make peace we don't talk to our friends we have to talk to our enemies so we have to reach out in some way, even if it's not about this topic for me. I have to force myself. I have to think okay how can I reach out talk about the weather talk about something and so for for my family. I just try and love them where they are. Love them where they are and and hope that they will see the change in me, and eventually asked, you know, or read the book starting with Betty, this is great. I'm reminded of that wonderful Scripture Romans 24. Don't you know it's God's kindness leads one to repentance and that pulses through me when I'm engaging with people from Planned Parenthood of the abortion industry relay role for that matter, the LGBT Q community as well. That's how they're going to be attracted to the gospel. That's what the Lord does just knowing that he cares for every person again and that nobody's beyond his reach.
That's what I hear you saying loud and clear. We need to pray for those people and I want to congratulate you again, for you know, again, you had to have an open heart. You're in the mire of the battle when you're working for Planned Parenthood.
You could've easily kept the blinders on. But something in your heart You moving in a direction toward God's heart and I'm very intrigued by that because that is the great part of the journey for everyone who sees the truth versus God's love moves forward in that regard. And that's how you concluded this conversation with Dr. Patty Dube, Inc. rightfully is a best of 2021 episode on Focus on the Family and we do recommend you follow up on this very important topic. I get a copy of Dr. D Binks book unexpected choice and abortion doctors journey to pro-life John, let me turn to the listener and I hope Patty story has encouraged you a God is working to change hearts. That's what he does and you can use you to help women who are considering abortion. We often mention the statistic about 60% of abortion minded women will choose life.
Once they see their baby through that ultrasound. So please join us in ministries. We help women in crisis or option ultrasound program equips pregnancy resource clinics around the country and we estimate a gift of $60 can save a baby's life is pretty incredible and we invite you to join the support team for option ultrasound give a gift of $60 and is our way of saying thank you will send a copy of Patty's book, unexpected choice. Call us today to donate and get that book are numbers 800 letter a in the word family 800-232-6459 or you can learn more by clicking the link in the episode melts and I do hope you make plans to join us next time. As we take a look at spiritual warfare in your marriage. The Scriptures began with a marriage is adamant he is an important institution. It reflects the image of God himself, and so wouldn't it make sense if Satan wants to hack God that he would attack it reflects image on behalf of Jim Daly and the entire team.
Thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family I'm John Fuller inviting you back once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. I was shocked when she gave me the divorce papers. I was so done I had reached my breaking point. I was desperate for a shred of hope.
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