Important Conversations to Have With Your Son

Hey this is John Fuller and Focus on the Family is looking for talented writers and editors to help reduce our audio programs and podcasts go to focusonthefamily.com/about/careers. To learn more about these and other job opportunities. Focus. He literally grabbed me and he hugged me it was probably one of the greatest meals on one of the best 60 seconds of my 65-year-old wife left Steve Graves sharing about the important role of a dad in his child's life and Steve is with us today on Focus on the Family your hostess books presidents and Dr. Jim Daly on John Fuller here some great advice from Steve about how to intentionally invest in your son and really equip him for adulthood. Jon I haven't met anyone who really regrets spending that intentional time with their children. That's a healthy parent right you want to spend that kind time with the kids. I know many parents who wish they had been more intentional about spending that time I think of that with my boys. One things I didn't do well.

Now, in retrospect, an entrance out of the home. Troy just graduated enough so but spending individual time with them. I guess I had two boys.

We just did everything together as guys write whatever we did and I think that was the shortcoming I should've spent a little more time with each one of them individually and today were talk about how to do that balance how to work as a good father to develop that relationship and deposit into their souls. The things particularly your sons, but this will apply to daughters as well. But what your sons need from a dad gather some great principles for every dad is so lenient and hear from Steve that he and his wife Karen have three adult children and he works in the corporate world advising business owners and entrepreneurs and Steve speaks and writes about faith and work and has a book called 41 deposits, crucial conversations for fathers and sons and will encourage you to get your copy to stop by the episode notes for the link or call 800 the letter a in the word family Steve, welcome to Focus on the Family hey thanks Jim, John, good to be here, it's good to have you. I love this topic being a father of two boys and men.

Whenever talking about being a dad of sons excites me and like I said, I think these applications will work for daughters as well. There some differences, but generally what rent talk about today is how to be a good dad right yes absolutely. And they do upon women as well. You have three children.

You have two daughters and a son.

And I think they're grown now right yet they are there all there. Actually we went is really fun and we went from having no Mary children to all married children two years leading you know anybody I'm married and then we just had our first grandchild. Not too long to so we've we've moved fully into the parenting of adult children quickly warp speed.

That is what it is we need help that you've experienced it all rather quickly ask so you know, being that kind of dad that intentional dad what was raising your kids like how would you describe yourself in that regard. Well, you know, generally interesting nonintentional person by nature. My jobs working the CEOs. I advise CEOs is what I do every day and so have to be a little proactive in and out thinking ahead and around the corners and so by nature. My wiring is intentional but you know when you know when you parenting kids. You just cannot get in that zone. We are just doing everything you can do to keep things move in and keep it going and you get to Sunday and then you start again on Monday. You wake up and all of a sudden people in Junior and in the graduating and just say while what really happened and and so it was really interesting my girls.

I was clearly intentional with them but my son somehow really triggered some things in me that made me want to make the at least even a greater series of intentional deposits into his life, from a dad to a son kind of thing and and I try to apply to my family when I can. Let me AE you know and make sure dad's a hearing this clearly and and the wives that love them. I thought I wrote a book called good dad because one of my concerns is that we as as men tend to want to do a good job and if were not doing a good job kind of recoil we go and hide. And I think fathering has so many challenges that were not equipped for you may be a person that came from a household like me that you didn't have a dad right now was lost and a blueprint. Nobody taught me how to be a dad and you can have a father live in a home and intact home and have that same outcome. We didn't really have modeling on how to be a father because your dad was emotionally distant, or what have you. So I want I wanted to ask you that question in terms of that perfection drive that many men have and the fact that no one's perfect it's okay you not. You don't need to be working with CEOs sending a lot of men. The just heard you went well okay the skies qualified well did you hope I at least have something to say to Phil after 35 years point the perfect versus the good you know that I couldn't agree more.

I mean if I would've had to have been the perfect dad email me Mike, I'm not. And that was to be honest, Jim.

That was really my biggest challenge in really putting this into a book.

I did it because I wanted impact. My son and it was a great journey for the two of us. When it was an awesome experience for the two of us to bond as as him becoming an adult and I had the outlines I done it but I did not see my outlines to anybody who wanted to but I just wasn't really sure I wanted to put it into a book because I'm not the perfect dad.

He's not the perfect son were not the perfect family. We didn't do the perfect job in this notion that that I'm putting out some prescription that if you just take these 41 pills everything to be perfect. To be frank with guide 50-50 deposits. When we got 40.

Once on Lebanon, not a positive failure to do an A- exact solid B+ or A- yes I'm not you know it was not the perfect dad, what is the dad he says you know what during the season when my children are with me.

I'm to make sure that I at least devote the kind of stewardship to them that needs to be there and here's the thing, I don't know. Most parents that I that I know and have met and I'm 65, and so on that a lot of parents, and in a lot of places.

Most parents aspire great things for their children. They really do. And that's believing parents faith-based parents don't matter what political party.

Most parents aspire great things for their kids is just knowing, what to do and how to get that done.

That's where we sometimes go a little fun.

Let's get into the title is catchy, 41 deposits so how do you define the deposit. What is that will retain what it meant for me and I would not at all try to tell everybody that this is what it's gotta mean to you but for me I knew this I knew that I grew up without a dad in my home. I had a godly mom and that I had. I had at least nine very specific men that played a father figure in my role as I was growing up into becoming an adult and those men deposited certain things into my thinking. My psyche my mindset. My belief system whatever and so I just sent him one time in made a long list of things on new at the end of the day if I could share with my son what I thought about these things, how I was approaching them how I was breaching the challenge of each of these things and then help him think about them over kind of the really transparent, honest, vulnerable relationship that was for me the deposit. The deposit wasn't that I'm going to force-feed into him to believe a certain way to think a certain way and oh by the way, you need to believe exactly how I do about these 49 things are 50 things, 41, view it in and they could make it because he's a different person and I got is a different calling for him now it comes to the core values of life and the belief systems and some of that. I hope that as he migrates into adulthood and he finds his adult faith and on and on that.

I hope we are more aligned them were nonaligned sure, but the deposit was an honest can. I'm skinny, like a mold option to stamp these into you and you have no you don't really have any varying to really trust and believe them, accept them or not you added in there, which I think is important, the tying on not analogy is not just the deposit but you're actually strengthening the fiber of your son's heart by tying this not what were you getting out.

Well, not to my two big goals as I wanted to make some wisdom deposits into his mind the way he thought about things and I wanted to try to make some relational deposits into his heart so that he and I would would really have a a life connection, you know.

And so what happened is that Mimi think about. I have to contextually get inside my kids lives as they go through inflection moments yeah in their lives, whether it's puberty, whether it's learning to have in a day whether it's being a star in a basketball team whatever so fast forward that you know with Kyle. I remember I really wanted to somehow make sure that I had tied a good tight knot between the way he was thinking the way I was thinking and what he was feeling in his heart and when I was feeling and I really believe Scarlett lived that last verse to Malachi.

It's interesting it said in a prosthetic context is not initially said in a family building contact with the context is, is that when parents tie their hearts to their kids and their kids are also tied to the hearts of the parents. There's just too way tied to school and own good things happen yeah and and that was for me. This realization only back to when my kids were younger, I realize that the notion that I'm just gonna wrap a really nice tight knot with my children when they're young and that's gonna ride for 50 years is crazy. And if I don't need to feel guilty about that and I don't need to be shamed. It's the not been afraid it's going to come undone.

It's my job to go tied again and tied again and tied again and make sure that because if I've got that I got a pretty good sound framework to work through all kinds of issues whether their belief issues their behavior issues. Figure out how to align adult families whatever so that the test with in the good I I'm thinking you know we use different terminology. But what you're saying from another angle is just be intentional about developing relationship with your kids. That's the point yet and then cement those values in various ways. In a lot of men were about process and structure. So when you look at it were gonna tell you would do see what the next step step 123 so when you look at the structure of what you decided to do with Kyle. After you identify the 50 things. Even though he only got 41 that we won't talk about that that what was the structure for you and Kyle what age did you start and you and I think in there.

I would ask you to include this idea. The differential between lecturing and communicating relationship building because I think a lot of his dad's 10 don't want want want we lecture looked. This meant I get paid really good money to be a coach to tell.

Give my point of view on something that should be happening to me.

That's what I tell him why that's my skill set that's my God-given calling and so often I have to count a shift in into a different mode where I'm not lecturing or I'm not coaching I'm not telling them a point of view. I'm creating a conversation with him.

The context was this made my list and then Kyle and I agreed that we were going to grab breakfast at a new donut a new a new bagel store and don't shoot yet it was a radio megastore and so weak he wanted to go so we just we joined up in them. We decided that we would we would go there and you know it wasn't the deal because it wasn't the thing we said every Friday were to get together or every but we decided we were to get together every week we could.

He was going into his high school season of basketball.

He played basketball he was really active and we loved it and that we met every week or every other week all the way through his high school season and we worked our way through these topics and some of those topics are what I would call a one bagel one bagel topic. Other topics would be what I would call may be a 12 bagel topic. It just took us a while and what we didn't do was my intention wasn't to simply come in late. Now Mike my lecture notes and I wasn't some professor where I'm gonna let him here's everything you need to know that this was the next question.

Okay, here's everything you know about that what your next question and but in your quicker we get to the syllabus, we quickly go to something meaningful that was not our plan. Our plan was to create some honest transparent dialogue around the topics that I feel like were the most important topics that were in my heart that I wanted to somehow transfer input in his heart in his mind so we just wrestled. We talked about them in what we usually do is we started with, top of mind items and then from that we would try to slide into the topic of the day. I would always try to have a story or whatever, and a Bible verse that we really anchored everything around. We just stayed with it all the way till he graduated in there when he graduated. I gave him the notes Steve there's a particular time that that you shared about in the book were you and Kyle had discussion, it may have been around sexual issues are lost or whatever that was that. I want you to fill the blank in their it really affected him in IE.

I think I want to make sure we cover this because it's the proof of the power of conversation what happened. Well yeah you know it was really fun because I was fun and also painful. I came in and I shared with him some of the ways that I struggle in some of the ways that I have failed around this big topic.

And so he just listened and it just so happened that that particular day he had to leave early and we both forgotten about it but he had to leave early so literally at the like. Almost at the very middle of our conversation here. The bolt will when he bolted. We'd Artie paid.

As we walked outside and when we walked out.

He literally grabbed me and he hugged me it was probably one of the greatest W was on one of the best 60 seconds of my 65-year-old life I'm telling it was we hugged each other. He started crying. I started crying and not a word was said and what was happening and I confirm later Bill is happening was he was just thinking about areas that he has failed in areas that he's really human in areas that he struggles in, but more importantly or equally important, is he was looking at me, his dad, and he was saying.

The owners my dad who also struggles who also fails, who also was a human.

And so we were just, hugging each other.

Now, 10 inches, holding each other in processing the fact that we as men are going to struggle with that.

By the way our whole life of me that's not like one of those that you gonna grow out of. When you're 31 rhino or when you said you get married, have kids, no problem with with any sort of sexual issues or temptations or struggles that doesn't go away that go and it doesn't matter how godly you might be or how how many verses you memorize all those things are crucial but the temptation itself is going to be with us as long as we humans and so that was the moment for us. That was was a really strong when I think the power that is that the level of intimacy and authenticity and that when you can have that kind of discussion with your son and you can respond with that understanding is connected in such a deep way that not you refer to earlier's is a double not really tied tight and my guess would be that he is comfortable coming to you talking to about these things and that's one of the bigger is a lot of a lot of dads will mess because we tell our sons.

You know this is what you do. This is what you don't do. We don't tell on our own failures, our own weaknesses, etc. where they can then attach to that and then you have intimacy. Yeah, we certainly are able to talk about all kinds of things that we do we do today when we talk about all kind of things in and I would say that was probably established in those early relationships with one another thing that you point out the book, which I totally resonated with in my boys really responded to do was activity-based things were that was camping you did canoe trips I think was your thing and I love that, and I would encourage every dad listening now care what age are your sons are now and I include your daughter's unit at different times but to do activities with them.

Boys really responded that you know so the not just looking at you, hearing your lips flapped out, they need to be doing something and they remember those things for a long time. Well the thing is, and we all know this and we all could write a book on it but we all know that when you engage with an activities with somebody else what you're doing now is your putting something else in the middle of the relational dynamic where the canoe together canoeing where playing pickup basketball.

We are playing chess or whatever it is, and so all of a sudden now I've got a whole different toolbox to talk to you about important things or ask questions, or maybe even you know, God forbid, I don't even try to talk about anything.

We just get in the canoe.

We just have a great day, without me feeling like I've got accomplish 17 things with my parenting that day. That's where that's were overly you know, over intentional dads. We always struggle. Let me I have. It's amazing how many CEOs that I'll work with and and often we end up talking about, you know, parenting their kids or whatever and and and I'll just say look, you know you just so wired and I'm so wired to get stuff done every day were not wired to get up and just lay around and do nothing. And so when you intersect your canoe trip or your outing to height go hiking somewhere, or gusto stain in the river and fly fish. I find myself want to say would you come over closer so I can tell you some more things verses like that is my shootings. I climbed over would gotta be going to get a double stack is don't get 16 things done while were doing anything versus wishes go stand in the river about 12 feet from each other and just not talk for an hour.

How can that be good that's awesome especially to the child. The child loves that in and by the way, all I've done is earn the right on the way home to maybe ask a better question into maybe even talk about something in a more transparent way that Steve again you EE obviously wrote 50 deposits that you want to do in the book is 41 because that's what you got done. I appreciate your honesty but in that regard to some dads listening and some wives who love their husbands and know the kind of wiring they have it. It is overwhelming. I'm not going to create a list of 41 things speak hope into that father and their future relationship with their kids what we struggle as men getting out of the gate because we don't we don't know the process we don't trust the process were not sure it's gonna work. So we pulled back right away. So what encouragement you have for that dance, and I love what you talking about, but I know what to do. You know Jim, that's probably the single biggest reason that I decided to go ahead and write the book, besides getting a green light for my family. I to friends of mine that live in Utah and they basically said you don't just come home and you can provide some train tracks you can provide a framework for somebody that might not be wired to be a pioneer they might not be wired to come up with the list themselves but but their executors they can follow a roadmap and I and I just… I mean every city I go to if I don't know how to get to somewhere will I do I get on my map and I find a map and somebody that's taken the time to provide the framework makes it easy for me to follow the map and so all I tried to do this I came up with 41 things that were right for me and my son and basically most people can take those and use those as kind of a train track to run down and then contextualize it as you go. My son has some perfectionism tendencies you know and so we had to talk about that.

If your son or daughter doesn't dingy bad what it might be there a nail in it so that's my whole goal was to try to provide a little bit of a framework that people could jump on the road travel with it and then the contextualize I was talking to a business partner mine this morning earlier and he asked me what I'm doing today nested when I'm out here doing this, the only cement I love that black and I still am glad you do any set of values and all the time and he said I'll use it when I'm in the car with my younger kids. I'll just grab a nugget and I'll grab one topic and I'll use it as a point of discussion or if I know I want to do a devotional with one of my kids all grab one of those Bystolic is just following the book page by page by page because you have to contextualize it, but you have to start from a blinking of this you have to look at the blank board and say well I don't even know where to start.

Just go to the table contents and picked up Circle the ones that you think best apply to you and your child start there and with my story doesn't fit, you stick your story in and they just stay with the principles and go.

I do want to end with maybe the toughest of the questions that dad that I'm envisioning a night.

I have friends that are in the spot where their relationship with their teens is so afraid and you know there's lots of reasons for there's no blame, but a rules oriented father who is really driving black-and-white can cause that relationship to fray in your experience, I mean working with the CEOs and then you know working with the father-son combos that you have one of those things that dad should be aware of in their own behavior. Forget the teenager we know what they behave like like their brains are formed yet. But as the adult as the dad how in my stepping on their oxygen hose and I need to be careful yeah you know I think it's important that I can dial back a little bit and I can show to my children that I really have some intentional work that I'm doing on myself when people can see that you also that you're not perfect and that you're working on some stuff I began to put barriers down when I think that when you somehow made me feel that you're in a different place your above me you don't have the problems I have, that's what disconnect often times happens and so you know the transparency and vulnerability of a parent you have to do it by coming in is saying I am struggle with these 19 things you just have to say, you know, I'm really working on some stuff that I know I haven't done as well let you know when I need to work on that and whatever and then the other thing is this icing usually kids love to spend time with parents who also enjoy spending time with them. If you somehow just if you can't get past the kid. The fact that your kids are irritating you, and they're driving you nuts and that's to come out and so find a good spot in your mind and your soul in your heart so that you're actually coming across that you're having a good time with them as well when you're able to do that you're able to, somehow began to really come a toddler, not a little bit.

One more time.

That's good.

It's not easy Jim because we do fail, especially intentional debt, intentional week we mess up all the time. The other key thing for that dad of a 20 something a 30 something maybe older, where the relationship is frayed. What can they do to begin to repair that now you know what I could tell you something that my wife and I are doing with our adult children is were helping them understand that we don't know how to parent, adult children, we cannot apparent younger children when others you know we've said to them a listen, we're trying to figure out how to be good effective responsible parents of adult children, but you have to help us you have to help us learn what that looks like and you got to be patient with us. You have to give us some grace you can have to give us some time to fail. It will be some blood on the table.

Sometimes I can't help that. But like were not to do it right. But the question is are you willing to help us kinda get involved in being good adult parents will try what you going to help us a little bit so could be that apparent a dad of a son that's kind of a stranger or not they are somehow maybe over time communicate that you know he's trying to learn how to be a good parent of an adult child start there without having to go back and rehearse all the water under the bridge for 25 years.

Just start there because the 25-year-old son was so yeah, I guarantee you need some help on my can even help you. The question is do I really want help or is that just a ploy. If I really want help I might get some help from a 25 only I sure where I'll probably that's good, Steve. This is been so great and I hope every dad listening in and again. The wives of these dads listening can help take the first step and move in a direction where we can do a better job as a father, and I certainly want to recommend your book 41 deposits, crucial conversations for fathers and sons to get your copy here Focus on the Family you know it works so well for us folks rather than buying it online by some efficient bookseller that get your Focus on the Family because all of that money goes right back in the ministry doesn't pay a profit or shareholder so you get the book through Focus on the Family.

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