The Importance of Leaving and Cleaving

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That's focusonthefamily.com/SS if you have a tough day at work you get in the car in your first person you call your mom not your wife. That's a problem. Ted Cunningham is with us today on Focus on the Family in your host's focus president and author Jim Daly on John Fuller John here Focus on the Family we love marriage and I hope people feel that in no it's foundational to the family and it's a gift from God and we need to lift marriage up to its proper place and I think in many ways restore what God intended with marriage effect. It's the reason why we talk so much about it here on our program. We like to equip you with those tools to help you live your marriage in such a way that others see something wonderful and beautiful in your marriage. It's witness to the world today were targeting newly married couples. But this also applies to their parents. That's the good news were all going to benefit from the discussion today.

We've got some solid trusted advice about the importance of God's designed to leave behind your childhood, family, and cleave to your spouse or putting this in the family formation category, and we have invited one of the best speakers and authors on the topic of marriage and that's a Pastor Ted Cunningham. He is the founding pastor at Woodland Hills family church in Branson Missouri and had you seen a few weddings I think is one stick out like all I one where I was in the wedding and the guy passed out one of the groomsmen keeled over into the candelabra which almost caught the drapes on five I had him from they been so out-of-control crying. They can't say the words. This is week that that is.

And yet, the pause, you have to wait. I've never had a bridegroom pass out, but I have had groomsmen lies about what we doing wrong, but they have one job here in a talk that's it that your only job you can make that happen. We we picked the wrong guy. It is Jim said Ted's, the founding pastor of Woodland Hills family church in Branson Missouri and he's a popular author and speaker a very funny fellow I might add, and you have fun today.

Ted formally welcomed the Focus on the Family back now.

Ted you are a contributor to compilation a book that we worked on exits a series of things DVD curriculum and other things ready to wed Greg Smalley who kind of orchestrated that resource and the other attached resources saw that if a couple receives 10 hours of counseling or more the risk of divorce is significantly reduced, your pastor, your counseling couples are thinking of getting married. Do you see that play out in your own and your own church all absolutely.

We its requirement for us if if you are wanting to get married at her church work by someone from our church. We we require a minimum of six hours believing 1012 is better, but our goal is that you don't just go through premarital you after you take him where you plug in the biblical community through a small group growing yeah and continue to grow.

I can remember when Jean and I did our premarital counseling in Southern California, a member there probably a dozen couples involvement in was all day Saturday for two or three Saturdays. I can remember, but on the second or third Saturday that we were doing this, I remember three couples got up and said were not ready and we may not be right for each other, which is a mark of success.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think for framing and I we we went through a lot of skills based premarital. What I love about ready to wed in and it's Greg and Aaron Smalley's heart and passion for marriage is more the heart level. We never really got into the heart conversations in the family of origin issues and the messages written on the heart we were dealing with budgeting and dealing with, you know, the first night of intimacy in any way we were going to more the skills and not so much the voices of the messages written on the heart, which is what really crops up in the marriage pretty quickly. You may not see it in that honeymoon. The first there maybe a year or two, but those things will eventually begin to pop their heads up like groundhogs like them. It's that moment you're trying to figure out why your your spouse says org's the things they do.

And then you're over at your in-laws house and your mother-in-law and your father-in-law says or does something in you had that moment where you're like I just sought now I know where it comes from being a guide. The one thing not to say in that moment is honey. You remind me of you is not good advise what would Amy say your wife about good things a woman shouldn't say about her husband. Yeah Amy it when she's seeing more and more my dad coming out in me is a lot like my mom. It comes out in the my mom gets excited. I get excited varies when things happen and and and I love to tell you know my family to calm down. Hey, hey everybody calm down, now is where to get an Amy reminds me, we are called we are all common.

This room Ted right now you but we see we love now seeing you after being married for 20 years. How much the family of origin still plays him have you get the more obvious it gets. In the older you get, the more I appreciate it, probably five, 10 years ago.

Even I'm see my mom and dad come out to family but now I'm as they're getting older. Even I'm saying. Those are the qualities on a morning when there was a section that you contributed in writing to wed, which was the leave and cleave now that almost sounds very Christian knees and it would be good for people that don't even understand talk about what is leave and cleave Genesis 224 says, for this reason a man leave his father and mother united to his wife and the two become one flesh.

Most of the time we look at that verse of the marriage.

Verse but the first half of that verse is parenting. For this reason a man will leave his father and mother. In other words, it's the job of the parents make sure child leaves home as an adult, not on a journey to become one of the most important thing biggest mistake. I think we make his parents today as we treat our children like children right up until the very moment we expect him to be an adult well and so for it for me. It's not academics is not athletics that raise our children into adults as parents, and it doesn't say. For this reason a child leaves his mom and dad and then say for this reason and adolescent leaves of mom and dad says an adult I think about that might I'm supposed to send my children out of the home, not on a journey to become an adult but as an adult, prepared for the responsive healthy of work and relationships and in the context of Genesis 224 cleaning I I'm supposed to be preparing my son 11 years old right now to be a husband and my daughter 13 714 to be a wife that's my responsibility and that's where we get into the whole even cleave. I am preparing my children like you asked my 11-year-old what your dad's definition of Genesis 224 he will look at you and go I will not be with mom and dad forever, so plan accordingly.

That's right. And I tell my kids all the time. We love you. You're welcome. In addition to this home but your mom and I we got big plans after you leave right and in the back where you, first of all, were going to Disney World okay treating ourselves for raising the victory lap yeah so so the responsibility of parents. It's not my job to send Karen and Carson out of the home for 10 years of self discovery and figure out who they are. I'm supposed to send them out prepared with the milestones of adulthood ready to go for working relationship.

What are some of the things you're doing both for your daughter and for your son so if the definition of prolonged adolescence is too much privilege. Not enough responsibility.

It's time as I move them into the teenage years to help them understand privilege is at the end of responsibility you have to start laying on more of the responsibility you have to start allowing them to make more decisions if it's true, we treat our children like children right up until the very day we expect them to be adults is why so many young people crash and burn their freshman year of college. They're just not ready for the responsibility of all that freedom by my mom and dad were on me.

Some of them say they were on me all the way up until he dropped me off at college and then they were there to be on me and so I wasn't prepared for ideas were thrown at me and events were thrown at me and activities were thrown at me and I just said yes to all of them and so I think that starts way back earlier. At that tween stage when individualization and separation kick in and your child. According to the Scriptures actually becoming a little adult that we we have to stop seeing between years as this pushback.

Of time where their rebelling is not automatic rebelling. It's their becoming adults right and how to embrace that and encourage it, but do it in a responsible way. Encourage airport. I even use the word celebrate it right promoted. Yeah, you're an adult, so what that means is I don't tell you to brush your teeth anymore. That's not my job right. That's like responsibility. Number one, I'm not going to be telling a 13-year-old.

It's time to take a shower okay and I do what they're not doing it there and experience someone else is going to tell them I'll say this about them take a shower and I'm just saying the loving thing to do as a parent is letting me help my child understand that in their need for it rather them, them getting picked on in the world saying that what you what's going on. That's your responsibility. You got it you got get yourself that you got a brush teeth, you gotta take a shower. You gotta get dressed. I'm not laying out your close anymore. Tanya and pre-were common taken a shower for not doing those two things are probably not good to be Mary Lee and that should start when there they're 18.

I just think my parents would never be my alarm clock at 16, 17 years old. It just didn't happen to you talk in the book about your favorite moment in the marriage ceremony and that's when dad gives away his little girl and why is that particular moment is a pastor so rewarding for you.

It's rewarding its emotional you know the guy can be a dad can be 682 87 linebacker when can I ask at the rehearsal. Hey tomorrow I want you to turn to base your daughter address.

Ask who gives this woman to be married to this man were not rushing through this. I want this to be a moment and I don't don't work to make this some viral moment on YouTube.

This is you, dad and daughter and I want you to speak a blessing over your daughter.

You will have a clock so take the time you won't have a microphone we don't need to hear it. We don't need to get it all recorded. Let this be your moment where I can't think of anything that's more literal for Genesis 224 life and your daughter.

Yeah, this is I am literally giving you away right now to be another man's wife and dad at the rehearsal usually shrugs me off like in a prompt. I'll do that, pastor, and I have no idea. Let me ask you why you know I think today I don't know if it's technology and entertainment and everything else we kind of shrug through this amazing moment of responsibility and we underplay it in so many ways. When this is an astonishing moment and for me I think big picture with weddings.

I'm super sad that everybody wants a short today. This is what I'm seeing in the church there and I and I will have the bride tell me keep it short and I used to sit down couples and like okay lets my part of me tell you what the elements that I'm over and then you let me know the special music. Many families reading Scripture and there are no special elements. There is no exit is right is right to a let's get this going to get his allotted and I'm going this is a lot of money to invest in 15 minutes you think that is why do you think people are cherishing this moment and how does that play downstream with their commitment. Yeah, that's a great exam and in I know we say invest more in the marriage and you do in the wedding, but I think only say that were not meaning you know don't don't view this is special. Don't view this as an opportunity or just a formality and so you know when I dad on the wedding day after the rehearsal walks his daughter down the aisle and he turns to face his daughter is on a dry eye in the place and you know we don't have a microphone so all we hear is me just as little whimpering coming out that we all have to take a moment to gather herself and then he turns and faces him and I told my daughter this is the story I use in the book the Princess and the Queen you know when she was five.

She was kind of taken over the home.

I sat her down and said there's only one queen in this house and you ain't her. She looked at me with those eyes that said will see 05 and she's five. She told Amy the next day there's room enough in this house for two queens and I sat her down.

I said listen one day little boys in the say the words to you.

I love you and and I want you to know he's of his father the devil in a child of darkness stay with no I did not know that I did not say that to her. I said one down to stand the back of the church with you. Looking down the aisle and I want you to understand something at that moment, I want you to remember what saying you know what to say to you is your grown-up your mom is my Queen. You will never be my queen but you're my princess and so one day Emma walk you down the aisle to become another man's queen and I said between this day and that day, do the best I can to the best of my ability I want to show you every day how a queen should be treated as beautiful. Hope every father's hearing what you're saying right now and to cherish that moment to wherever you're at with your little daughters. 15 now or five pickup that purpose today. Yeah that's it on a first date yeah share that story thing.

This is my princess you taken out right now you have a story in this chapter and ready to wed, which is a great curriculum. By the way, and this is aimed at churches primarily but couples can do it on their own, but we would love for churches to pick this up and and again to help those couples in your congregation have the best chance at having a lifelong commitment to their marriage. This kind of premarital counseling is what it's all about but you had a story in there about a dad who was at the moment and decided he didn't want to give his little girl away. He wouldn't answer me that what happened yet he goes I go who gives this woman to be married to this man. It's what almost every package that is some variation and he was silent and I thought I tapped on the mice is rehearsal this is the wedding day and what's funny is we practice that the day before so I don't know what happened.

I asked the second time and he just stared at me and I thought okay he's the clamp he's he's caught up in the moment. Let's give a moment because I think one of the worst things a pastor can do a step on moments like that just let those moments go and but the third time I asked him he said I go who gives this woman to be married to this man. He responded with I will not give her and I went little Billy he said, but I will share her home and I looked over at the groom and I said I'm sorry but the wedding is over and you'll he's got this look in his eyes like what what is going on how we gonna manage that. I just pause from an and you know me. My big thing is I step on everything with humor, so I tried to make a joke out of it but mean the implication of shot statement for the next 10 to 20 years is what I wanted to address. III had to hear. You know that moment when you sit in the exit row and are you willing and able to perform the duties of the exit row. You can't not ravers. They require that you say out loud and audible.

Yes, right, and I had to hear that from the dad I go when mom comes up to me a wedding so they don't feel like I'm losing a daughter today I feel like I'm gaining a son. I told her the same thing every time. Nope you're losing a daughter it's time for you to back away that that's leaving for work about it, that's completely right and logical. But you also understand the heart of the mom was right again.

I can't leave everybody hanging how did you address that with that.

I did make a joke I made light out of it.

But then I said I got to get the audible. I have got to hear right there right there.

Yeah, he finally said. He said her mother and I mother and I but I wanted to go on to a long follower later. Like after the ceremony and said let me talk you through a little bit what was going on. Well this may shock you, but if found its way into the message of the ceremony. The difference between giving and sharing. Click on it. I had to be. I just like listen, you know, for you to to become one because I am the specific with guys, listen, if you called your mom every day to share the highs and lows of your day for the last two or three years after work. Listen you you can't do that anymore. Part of leaving is this is now the new lady. You come home to and share the highs and lows where days with. I have mom come up to me. Do premarital counseling and through what's in this book and all the examples of lead. The leaving part.

We haven't really talked about cleaning the leading part in a mom came up to me at a wedding and said how dare you tell a son not to love his mother and I went well first of all, would you ever hear that I don't care what Pat would never hear that out of the pastor's mouth. I said I never told your son that here's part of the problem you are in that premarital session I told your son.

Don't call you every day to do that anymore, but she interpreted that as he's disconnected from me. He doesn't love me and then you have to walk through all of that with no this is actually love this doesn't hate, but I need to press you on behalf of those moms that are there not seeing it that way. Tell me why spiritually tell me why I shouldn't expect the same relationship with my son, even if he has married or my daughter if she's married I can. I still have the same relationship.

So here's what I tell couples you need to separate physically so you need to move out if you're living with mom and dad if you if you're still in the basement was Star Wars bedsheets. We need you out of there. Okay, it's time to get married. We need to separate financially. I hear couples all the time. I want my parents to take our relationship seriously and not treat us like children alone. We can do that is don't call him for money get a second job for you. Ask your parents are separate, physically, financially you're separating emotionally the problem if if you have a tough day at work and you get in the car in your first person or to call your mom not your wife. That's a problem that's can prevent you from the second half of Genesis 224. The two becoming one. Yes, the very definition of Genesis 224 the picture we have is the bond between a husband and wife is to be stronger than the bond between a parent and the child. It has to be separate then you're separating emotionally or separating relationally and I tell couples if those don't work if you can't separate physically and financially and emotionally. You been this one really gets me in trouble.

You may need to separate geographically that'll help accomplish the other. It will, and may not be able to live 2 miles from your parents if they're stopping by. All the time. If there wanting to catch up on your life you note daily.

These are the boundaries that need to go in place. If you're going to truly leave because were, leaving were not talking about just moving were talking about leaving that relationship to start a brand-new relationship which is the cleaning part. If you're listening to Focus on the Family today. Our guest is Pastor Ted Cunningham were talking about his contribution to the ready to wed curriculum and book produced by Focus on the Family under Greg and Aaron Smalling. They had up our marriage effort here at focus and they're doing a great job, Ted. Let me ask you this. Some parents and they probably would be called old-fashioned.

They think having the family around them is a good thing and having that high interaction is a good thing. Intergenerational living is something that more and more people are doing you is that healthy or unhealthy.

I mean, in some ways are you describing a cultural norm of today that you leave and cleave and you separate in every way, whereas in the in the old and New Testament families typically live together in the same community and share duties and responsibilities. There was a big difference though between yet what we've experienced historically and biblically and traditionally and were experiencing now. Then you left your mom and dad's home and went right into your new home is built during the pre-wedding time and so mom and dad would carve out an acre on the far end of their property and that's where you started your family will now you're leaving mom and dad and maybe spending 510, and in some cases 15 years on your own right before you enter into a new home, so that part is very different and you now have you built a relationship with your parent as an adult. That didn't happen for most history and and biblically speaking, so now you have a husband and wife who have adult relationships with mom and dad and mom and dad were the go to you know if you need some fixed your apartment when you're 28. You called that.

Well let me tell you will now you got a new guy. Whether he's handy or not. Dad's not the first go to phone call again if you if the goal is oneness and not enmeshment and and having a family that so tied together. That's the common theme that's what you really say that is two becoming one flesh.

You have to cleave to each other. Let's move into that. The leaving portion. The biblical definition of compatibility is specifically two becoming one and it's the last half of the verse because you can't have it without the leaving part. If you don't leave well, you can't cleave well if you aren't in have healthy boundaries with your parents emotionally, relationally, financially. It's going to be very difficult to figure out how were going to do this together just the two of us were set that you other side of that boundary when a parent maybe an elderly parent.

Let's say the couples in their 40s or 50s that sandwich generation that they talk about and you know it it's there can be neglect here on the one edge of that boundary or your all consumed with how to take care of aging parents who may not of planned well, whatever it might be whatever the stresses how you manage that moment in your marriage to make sure you're one and you're not being sucked into this extravagant need for your time with the parents and still honoring them.

That's a really complicated boy, mostly in his words were live in the South were watching Amy's parents take care of you know Amy's 92-year-old grandfather and so just when you get to that place where you hit your 70s and your expect and you know tomorrow I will say this, her parents been married for over 40 years and so oneness is an issue. I mean, they pretty much settled that issue and it's a completely different role reversal now is not mom and dad trying to call the shots and mom and dad looking at decisions that you know Amy's parents maybe make it be like I would make that that that's cannot we talk about leave. We talk about learning how to make your own decisions is yelling what consequences you know and and and I believe first of these five is clear on that. Like I have a responsibility to care for my parents. My parents are not the responsibility of the government or even the church I mean is primarily falls on me first and so it's a completely different issue knowing that I will one day be bringing them back into my home or being responsible to elicit that cycle. It's rather interesting that when your parents are raising you there, hopefully preparing you for that time that you're already an adult when you launch your noggin learned on the job training and utilities that they really done a good job and ironically it's almost like learning the humility of God that is your parents and age in your in your 50s and now moms alone is dad passed away three years ago and she's not doing well and she's got a go somewhere and you bring mom home in moms now living with you and the little apartment basement or whatever it might be. How can you manage that moment in a healthy biblical way. Yeah, I still think the priority of your marriage is what leads to that honor to know. Hey mom, were glad to hear you're welcome addition to our home were still united front. You know, though, and in I know I tell parents and grandparents. Again, this idea of advocating for your child's marriage means you advocate for their marriage, not just your child. I think that's an important piece there. Sometimes we we pick our child or we pick one spouse advocate for both understand the marriage is important. It's the cornerstone in that family and at home support that and I think it's one of the on the topic of leaving and cleaving again going back this idea that every marriage is a duet need of great backup singers.

One of the best ways for a parent to be a backup singer to their adult child's marriage is to advocate for the marriage, not just the child and I know the tendency when a child calls, wanting to go at the husband or call go with the wife and begins making all the statements, the faster you can shut that down the better because you need to say I'm here for both of you, not just want to be those who are absent are protected here on this phone: in this room. Ted Cunningham always has such great wisdom to share with us as he did on today's episode of Focus on the Family, and I do hope it. Many young couples are leaning in right now and listening and taking his words to heart wet so important to get your marriage off on the right start and Focus on the Family is here to help you. It's our privilege to provide you and your spouse with what you need for a lifelong God centered relationship and that's why we have a whole department had dictated to marriage, we want to give you solid biblically-based wisdom and advice to help you in any season of your marriage. Let me share with you what one listener told her she wrote the sheer contrast between your advice and that of the world intrigued me, and before long I started to see that everything I was reading wasn't simply a bunch of people with old-school values, but was actually based on God's word that tell you I love hearing a comment like that, John.

If you're on the path marriage or you know someone who is a great resource for you is the book ready to wed 12 ways to start a marriage you love and when you donate to Focus on the Family gift of any amount today will send you a copy of that book as our way of saying thank you and you can donate and get your copy of ready to wed all the details are in the behalf of Jim Daly and the entire team. Thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family I'm John Fuller inviting you back. As we once more help you and your family thrive. Okay Mike got here soon as I could with going on hey I just want to give an update on my marriage is a good news. Yeah our marriage is going great right now. I can be happier. That's awesome you. It's like a solid 510 having a marriage that's just okay is what couples really want to live. Give yourself and your spouse an all-inclusive weekend you'll slow your pace. Focus on each other get more details@focusonthefamily.com/getaway that's focusonthefamily.com/getaway