Trusting God to Redeem Your Broken Marriage (Part 1 of 2)

I was convinced that nothing can change what was going on in our marriage and I want to try anymore but my commitment to God, help me try one more time. We went to a hope restored marriage intensive and it was life-changing. The counselors created the safest environment we could imagine so that let us really talk one a much different course now I believe we received a miracle that week received your free consultation. Hope restored.com today and Focus on the Family were to hear from husband and wife appear to have perfect marriage raised a loving Christian family directive in their church involved in ministry, but there were hidden sentences below the surface that will really threaten to tear the family apart your hostess focus Pres. and Dr. Jim Daly on John Fuller, and our topics today are probably not going to be appropriate for young children. John appreciate that subtle warning in you know at times we need to get into some nitty-gritty discussions. I think as the Christian church.

We often don't do that and therefore we suffer because you know I always believe things up on the table are far better than under the table and the Lord can deal with that with us when were open and honest in today's topic is associated to not review Bernard predictions and enough some of the research that I've read 60 to 70% of men in the church struggle with this issue.

So this is of paramount importance for us to address. Let me give you a quote from someone we know well theologian Russell Moore. He said this the most dangerous sends to our Christian life are the ones we think are anonymous and that is not only profound but deeply accurate. I know that you might be thinking of some hidden sins that you're struggling with. Here's the reality. God knows that and it's always better. As I said to get it up on the table and talk about it today, and next time you're going to hear story from a couple who did just that which took a lot of courage and a lot of grit. Yet this is really a remarkable story.

Dave and Kristin Sandler with us in the studio and Dave is a former colleague who worked here for 20 some years and today provides audio services and equipment and training to a number of corporate and ministry clients and on the side. He also makes these great wooden handmade patents.

Amazing. I like that every good and Kirsten is an author and blogger. She does some spiritual coaching for wives who have been wounded by pornography and has written a book that's can be really the basis for conversation today is called choosing a way out when the bottom isn't the bottom and we of course have copies of that. Just check the episode notes for details and let me add Kirsten you also work your focus in the legal department and that were grateful for the time you were here as well.

Let me say welcome to both of you guys try to be good to be here right working to dive right into the story because of so much to this and the content is going to be powerful. I know it didn't get that feeling right John, it begins with that image of a perfect marriage should I put that in air quotes. That was really shattered by the revelation of the hidden addiction to pornography. Dave that you're struggling with at first. Describe your relationship up to that point. What was your marriage like what was going on and that you know I'm assuming you're happily married for like 25 years, three grown children. Where were you had at that .25 years and you didn't really know each other now that's the crazy part. We were we were just launching into being empty empty-nesters because our youngest was had just gone to school overseas and I thought we had an Apsley fabulous marriage and we get to to some degree we did because we never thought we always got along yeah and it was one of those things where we did have love for each other and we we did love each other. We are committed to each other but the sin that was niggling at me. That was underneath the skin had been for years. You know, just kept raising its ugly head during during these times, but the introduction to the real struggle was when the Internet came around, and how easy it was to gain access to information and stuff that she shouldn't be yeah and and getting into work and it delve into that and I think before that, though, really, to grab, I think a lot of wives and you know what this is not gender specific any longer. A growing number of women are trapped in that addiction to pornography. We hear more more that her focus, but you had that news Kirsten, I mean I want to take you back to that day, so you're married 25 years.

Your kids are all about to be out on their own menu thinking okay this is cruise time that cruise control is around the corner and then boom you get this call her this Dave comes home what happened when this hits you while I got home from work and I was making dinner and my oldest son was home getting ready to head back to college and like I said we had our youngest son was already at college and I was making dinner and Dave came in and he just he was really quiet, not normally quiet and we had dinner and he hardly ate anything which was really odd because he's got big gaps in your notice yet is not enough and so I thought well maybe he ate his lunch late because I knew you had a busy day at work and you know there were several things going on and and then after dinner human human entire room and didn't come out and it was like so I cleaned up when in the room and I looked at him. He is laying on the bentonite.

I said I still remember head to Stella my hands. Why remember that, but I do any sublets with the manner in the next thing I heard come out of his mouth was.

Well, it's very likely I won't have a job tomorrow and I just I was just shocked and and I said why the only question I could push with why and he said because of the moral failure in my knees gave way and I know I hit the bed and then he proceeded to tell me what it had happened just a few hours earlier Dave, let's get you in here.

I mean, maybe you can describe as you start to a moment ago. Just describe what you're dealing with why it caught you and carried you away and then to connect with the guys, particularly that are listening that double life. I mean it were all susceptible to that. So it's not you know you made it.

I'm proud of both of you forget, and therefore choosing the right path of reconciliation and rehabilitation and were going to get all that but in this moment, this is the moment that the offender fears the most that you found out your discovered the ugly side of this just help us understand that that emotion of that and what you felt like, and even telling Kirsten what that felt like give us an idea. All I can say is just there was a range of emotions from panic to humiliation to shame.

It was, you know that that flood of oh know I have been found out and you for years I had tried to do it myself.

You know to take care of things myself and TO BE GOOD IN IT UNDER GET UNDER CONTROL OR LIMIT OR ELIMINATE, AND YOU KNOW TO THREE MONTHS AGO BY BE FINE AND THEN SOMETHING WOULD TRIGGER AN AND IT WOULD COME BACK SO THERE'D BEEN AT CYCLE OF WANTING TO GET RID OF THIS FOR YEARS AND SO I CONFESSED TO FAIR AND THAT STARTED THE SNOWBALL LET ME LET ME MAKE SURE AGAIN. I'M TRYING TO SIT IN THAT PLACE OF SOMEONE LISTENING THAT MAY BE IN THAT SPOT. AND THEY'RE SAYING TO THEMSELVES I CAN MANAGES THERE WERE.

YOU WERE BACK BEFORE YOU WERE FOUND OUT, AND THEY'RE SAYING OKAY EPISODICALLY IN OTHERS TIMES WHEN I YOU KNOW I SLIPPED IN A BUT I SHAKE IT OFF AND YOU KNOW I'M READY TO GO SPEAK TO THE ADJECTIVES OF THE DICTION HAT. HOW WOULD A PERSON KNOW THEIR ADDICTED WELDERS THAT CYCLE OF IT WILL BE CALLED THE CYCLE. SHAME WHERE YOUR GREAT EVERYTHING IS EVERYTHING IS GOING WELL, AND THEN SOMETHING TRIGGERS AND YOU FALL INTO SIN AND THEN YOU FEEL THE SHAME AND THE GUILT OF THAT AND THEN YOU SAY I CAN I CAN DO IT ANYMORE AND THEN YOU START FEELING BETTER AND THEN YOU'RE AT THE TOP OF THE CYCLE WERE YOU FEELING GREAT AND THEN SOMETHING ELSE TRIGGERS IT JUST IS WHAT KEEPS GOING ON AROUND YOU RIGHT RIGHT AND YOU CANNOT DO IT BY YOURSELF BECAUSE IT'S JUST THERE IS IT'S TOO DIFFICULT TO DO THAT YOU NEED OTHERS YOU KNOW IS A REASON WHY JAMES TALKS ABOUT CONFESSING YOUR SINS TO ONE ANOTHER AND PRAYING FOR EACH OTHER THAT YOU MAY BE HEALED. THERE IS HEALING AND THERE IS STRENGTH IN NUMBERS. YOU LOOK IN THE ANIMAL KINGDOM AND ITS THOSE THE WOLVES THAT GET THE ONE ANIMAL OFF AWAY FROM THE HERD THAT THEY PICKED IT OUT RIGHT AND AND THAT'S THE LIE THAT MANY THAT ARE IN ADDICTION.

WHATEVER IT IS, YEAH IT IS. THAT'S THE PRICE WE HAVE THIS TENSION WERE FEELING IT LISTENING TO YOUR STORY ON THE NEW YEAR COMING HOME TO THE MARRIED 25 YEARS, YOU'RE ALMOST EMPTY-NESTERS, AND DAVE COMES HOME WITH THIS NEWS THAT HE MAY GET FIRED BECAUSE HE'S ADDICTED TO PORNOGRAPHY IN THE WORKPLACE FOUND OUT WHAT WERE YOUR FIRST STEPS IN DEALING WITH THIS. BESIDES THAT EMOTION THAT WE JUST HEARD FROM BOTH OF YOU.

I MEAN YOU'RE WEAK NEED COLLAPSE WHICH EVERY SPOUSE WOULD HAVE. I THINK THAT'S REASONABLE. IT'S A BROKEN HEART.

ALL OF A SUDDEN I AND I WOULD SAY KIRSTEN WANT TO HEAR YOUR YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT SENSE OF BETRAYAL. I KNEW WHAT WENT THROUGH YOUR MIND, AND THOSE NEXT FEW HOURS ABOUT MANY OF THE MARRIED TO FOR 25 YEARS THAT YOU REALLY DIDN'T KNOW. I WENT YOU KNOW I DESCRIBE IT AS WHEN I THINK BACK, IT WAS A NANOSECOND WHERE I WENT THROUGH THIS HUGE RANGE OF EMOTIONS. FIRST OF ALL, HIS DISBELIEF SECOND RELATES HOW DARE YOU, FOLLOWED BY ANGER, THEN FOLLOWED BY YET YOU COULDN'T HAVE STUCK A KNIFE IN MY HEART ANY HARDER THAN THAT TO KNOW THAT HE EXCHANGE ME FOR PORNOGRAPHY AND AND THEN LIKE I SAID, THEN ANGER AND YOU KNOW I LOOK BACK ON IT AND I THINK YOU KNOW THE HOLY SPIRIT WAS WAS VERY PRESENT WITH ME AT THAT POINT BECAUSE THE FIRST THING I SAID WAS WE NEED HELP NOW AND I SAID AND YOU HAVE TO TELL THE KIDS I SAID I'M NOT TELLING THEM YOU HAVE TO TELL THEM THIS IS YOUR MASS. THIS IS THE MOMENT OF TRUTH IN EVERYTHING RIGHT. HAVING THIS YEAR. IT'S PALPABLE. I CAN FEEL IT. I MEAN THAT TENSION YOU HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THIS.

HOW DID THAT GO TELLING YOUR YOUNG ADULTS. IT WAS ROUGH. I MEAN, I HAVE LOVED BEING A DAD AND SO TO BRING THEM IN AND TO SAY GUYS I HAVE FAILED BIG TIME WAS REALLY HUMBLING AND NOT I REALLY DIDN'T KNOW HOW THEY'RE GOING TO REACT AND AND THAT WAS THE BIG THING OF OKAY ARE THEY GOING TO DISOWN ME AND AND GO INTO ANGER CYCLE OR OR WHAT MIGHT KIRSTEN SAID ARE OUR YOUNGEST SON WAS WAS AT COLLEGE, SO HE WAS ACTUALLY OUT OF THE COUNTRY SO WE WERE UNABLE TO TALK TO HIM RIGHT AWAY, BUT WE DID CALL HER DAUGHTER AND SON-IN-LAW AND AND TOUR SON AND IT WAS TOTALLY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT I EXPECTED. THEY THEY SHOWED GRACE THEY SHOWED LOVE. THEY SHOWED FORGIVENESS AND THAT WAS HUGE AS I THOUGHT FOR SURE WE ARE GOING TO LOSE THE KIDS AND I JUST DIDN'T WANT THAT. THE THE MOMENT. AGAIN, KIRSTEN, WERE YOU FEELING THAT FORGIVENESS ARE YOU HEARING THAT ANGRY ABOUT ALL I WAS THAT I WAS TOTALLY I WAS I WAS IN SHOCK AND THEN I WAS ANGRY AND ONLY BETWEEN SHOCK AND ANGER AND IN THE YOU KNOW IN FEELING LIKE I DON'T WHO IS THE SKY.

THIS IS NOT WHO I THOUGHT I MARRIED RIGHT AND I THINK I JUST WANT TO EXPLORE THAT A LITTLE BECAUSE OF THE SPOUSE THAT THIS MAY HAVE HAPPENED TO HER. WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO ITS COMPLETELY NATURAL. IT'S NORMAL TO FEEL THOSE THINGS AND THEY SHOULDN'T FEEL GUILTY FOR FEELING THAT THE QUESTION IS WHERE DO WE GO RIGHT AND WHAT WE DO AND HOW DO WE HONOR GOD IN ALL OF THIS MESS THAT YOU HAVE CREATED. I CAN HEAR YOU NOW.

I COULD FEEL IT IN AND SO THOSE ARE BIG MOUNTAINS TO CLIMB FOR THE OFFENDED ONE SPEAK TO THAT HAT DID YOU HAVE THAT RESENTMENT. WHAT WAS WORDED THAT ROLE OVER THE NEXT FEW DAYS FEW WEEKS FEW MONTHS THAT THE FIRST THING THAT I DID WAS AND AGAIN YOU KNOW GOD TELLS US IN HIS WORD THAT BEFORE HE WAS ASKED. I HAVE ANSWERED IN DANIEL. HE SAYS THAT AND AS I'M SITTING HERE PROCESSING THIS AND HE WENT DOWN TO TALK TO OUR SON. I SAID WE NEED HELP AND AND IMMEDIATELY A COUPLE CAME TO MIND, AND IT WAS A COWORKER OF MINE AND HER HUSBAND WHO ARE COUNSELORS AND I THOUGHT THAT WE NEED HELP WEIGHT WE NEED HELP NOW AND I DON'T KNOW WHERE TO TURN. BUT I'M GONNA START THERE AND SO I MENTIONED IT. NOTE I MENTIONED TODAY THEY SAID WE NEED HELP AND I CALLED KATHY AND I JUST SAID WE NEED HELP. SHE HEARD ME, AND SHE HEARD THE TEARS AND AND BY THIS POINT IN CRYING, SURE, AND SHE HEARD THE TEARS MY VOICE AND SHE SAID WILL MEET YOU IN 20 MINUTES. AND SO WHEN HE GOT DONE TALKING TO OUR SON AND THEN THE PHONE RANG AND I GRABBED IT AND IT WAS OUR OUR SON-IN-LAW.

WE HAD CALLED TO TALK TO OUR DAUGHTER AND SON-IN-LAW AND NEWLY MARRIED. THEY HAD BEEN MARRIED LESS THAN TWO MONTHS AND AND SAID WELL THEY SAID WAS GOING ON AND ISOLATING EACH TALK TO DAD AND I TOOK THE PHONE DOWN AND I SAID UNITES THE KIDS AND I HAD ADJUSTED TO MY TOXICS. I REALLY WAS NOT VERY NICE. AT THIS POINT I REALLY WAS GOING SWINGING BETWEEN THAT ANGER AND SHOCK AND DISBELIEF AND RESENTMENT AND HOW DARE YOU, YOU KNOW THIS THIS WHOLE THING OF I DON'T WANT TO BE AROUND YOU. I DON'T KNOW YOU, AND WHEN HE GOT OFF THE PHONE AND I SAID YOU KNOW THAT RICK AND KATHY WERE WOULD MEET US AND WE NEED TO LEAVE IN ABOUT FIVE MINUTES AS THE LONGEST CAR RIGHT OPINION IN A LONG TIME AND I CAN IMAGINE BECAUSE I COULDN'T SAY A WORD CAN SAY WHERE IT WILL IN PART, THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS YOU FORMULATED IT SEEMS AND AGREED TO RIGOROUS RECOVERY PLAN WHICH INCLUDED REGULAR MEETINGS WITH WHAT YOU CALLED A RESTORATION TEAM IN THE BOOK ABOUT 18 MONTHS SO II LOVE THE DEFINITIVE NATURE OF THAT SO THAT OTHER COUPLES ARE STRUGGLING GET AN IDEA OF HOW TO GET THROUGH THE WOODS ON THIS. YOU KNOW IT, THEN IT'S DIFFERENT FOR EVERYBODY BUT IT'S NOT SHORT IT'S NOT LIKE NEXT WEEK. IT'S ALL BETTER NOW. YOU HAVE TO REALLY DIG AND WORK IN DAVE AT ONE OF THE COMMON FALLACIES ABOUT PORNOGRAPHY IS THAT IT'S A VICTIMLESS CRIME. YOU OBVIOUSLY IF I HAVE LEARNED THAT IT'S NOT THAT EFFECT. CERTAINLY, YOUR SPOUSE AND THE REST OF YOUR FAMILY AND OTHERS TO YOUR EMPLOYER AND ALL THOSE THINGS. WHAT WAS YOUR PERSPECTIVE BEFORE THAN AFTER THAT WHEN YOU DID THE COUNSELING.

THE QUESTION WAS POSED TO ME THAT REALLY STUCK ME BECAUSE SKIN LIKE YOU SAID, IT IS A LENGTHY PROCESS, AND AS MEN WE JUST WANT TO OKAY WERE GOING TO GET IN WERE GOING TO TAKE CARE OF THIS AND WERE GOING TO BE DONE WITH AND WHERE MY COUNSELOR SAYING TO ME WHAT IS IT WORTH TO YOU FOR YOUR WIFE TO BE HEALED AND THAT REALLY HIT QUESTION.

YEAH, IT HIT ME, MADE ME THINK OKAY I HAVE PERPETRATED THIS SIN AGAINST MY WIFE AND ALSO AGAINST MYSELF. BUT, AND OTHERS.

THE RELATIONSHIPS WERE SEVERED AND WAS ALWAYS THAT TAINTED NESTS, BUT WHAT WAS WHAT WAS I WILLING TO DO TO MAKE TO ALLOW MY WIFE TO HEAL WAS AT AN INSTANT KIND OF HEART RESPONSE THAT YOU HAD ALL DO ANYTHING OR DID IT TAKE YOU MOMENT OR A LITTLE WHILE BUT THINK ABOUT THAT.

WELL, I'VE ALWAYS BEEN A SENSITIVE GUY. OKAY I VOICE I ALWAYS HAD THAT SENSITIVE NATURE, AND THAT'S KIND OF WHAT PLAYED INTO THIS WHOLE THING FROM THE BEGINNING AND BUT SO RIGHT AWAY. I HAD THAT PAYING IN MY HEART OF I HAVE I HAVE REALLY MESSED THIS UP KIRSTEN. LET ME ASK YOU AGAIN, EXPLORING THE FEELINGS THAT A SPOUSE WILL HAVE YOUR IN THIS ANGER TUMULT YOUR HEART IS RAGING IN SO MANY DIRECTIONS.

TRUST HAS BEEN BROKEN. THAT SENSE OF BETRAYAL.

I THINK I'M PAINTING THE PICTURE PRETTY WELL, BUT THEN YOU BEGAN TO DEAL WITH YOUR OWN GUILT AND SHAME EXPLAINED THAT AS A MAN. I'M NOT SURE THAT WOULD BE MY RESPONSE IN A WEEK OR TWO. I WOULD PROBABLY GET HUNG UP ON THE YOU BETRAYED ME FOR A WHILE SO HELP ME UNDERSTAND HOW YOU TURN THAT INWARDLY TO SAY OKAY I'M FEELING GUILT AND SHAME NOW WAS IT ABOUT WHAT JUST DAVE HAD DONE OR WAS IT MORE PERSONAL TO YOU.

IT WAS IT WAS BOTH OF THOSE.

JIM HONESTLY WHAT OPENED UP IN ME WHEN DAVE REVEALED THIS WAS MY SENSE THE LIMBS THAT I HAD THAT I HAD BEEN HIDING FOR MANY MANY YEARS AND THEY WENT BACK TO MY OWN ABUSE SITUATION WHERE I HAD NEVER DEALT WITH WHAT IT HAPPENED TO ME AS A NINE-YEAR-OLD CHILD AND SO WHAT THAT DID WAS IT SAID SEE YOU DON'T HAVE ANY VALUE YOU NOT WORTH ANYTHING NEAR UNSEEN. YOUR UNLOVABLE AND IT SAID OPENED UP ALL OF THIS. THIS CAN OF WORMS. THIS PANDORA'S BOX REALLY WHEN YOU SAID A WHILE AGO.

THE KNIFE COULD NOT HAVE GONE ANY DEEPER INTO YOUR HEART. I THINK WE ALL UNDERSTAND THAT BETTER NOW I'M IN THAT. THAT'S WHY CERTAINLY ONE OF THE BIG REASONS IT WAS CONFIRMING SOMETHING YOU HAVE HELD IN YOUR HEART FOR SO LONG. YES I'M NOT WORTHY. I'M NOT GOOD ENOUGH. I'M NOT YET.

I'M NOT. I'M NOT PRETTY ENOUGH. I'M NOT GOOD ENOUGH I'M NOT SMART ENOUGH. I'M NOT I'M NOT LOVABLE AND I DON'T MATTER IS WHAT IT CAME TO ME AND WHEN WHEN DAVE CAME HOME AND TOLD ME WHAT THE COUNSELOR HAD ASKED HIM AND THEN HE SAID IS THAT HOW YOU FEEL ANY KIDS THAT COUNSELOR HAD ALSO SAID YOU HAVE WOUNDED HER TO THE CORE OF HER BEING AND WHEN HE CAME HOME AND SAID THAT TO ME AND HE SAID IS THIS HOW YOU FEEL WAS THE FIRST TIME HE WAS ABLE TO SAY THAT'S IT THAT'S IT.

YOU HAVE TRADED ME AND THEREFORE I DON'T MATTER.

AND THAT'S WHERE THE KNIFE JUST WENT IN AND IT JUST DUG AROUND YOU AS YOU STARTED THAT RESTORATION PROCESS.

DID YOU BELIEVE THE THERE WAS HOPE FOR YOUR MARRIAGE SHALL ASK BOTH OF YOU DAVE.

LET'S START WITH YOU. I ONE OF MY WANT TO SAY YES.

I WANTED TO BELIEVE AT THE TIME THAT THERE WAS HOPE FOR THE MARRIAGE. I WAS WILLING TO DO WHATEVER I NEEDED TO DO TO KEEP THE MARRIAGE TOGETHER AND TO SHOW KIRSTEN YES I MEAN BUSINESS AND I AM GOING TO REBUILD TRUST, AND I AM GOING TO TO TAKE CARE OF THIS. NOW I CAN'T SAY FOR KIRSTEN. I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE OFFENDER AND SO I GET THAT. AND PEOPLE ARE SCREAMING, THEN RIGHT BACK AT US RIGHT NOW AND I GET THAT TO BUT HOW DID YOU THEN RESPOND IN TERMS OF HOPE FOR YOUR MARRIAGE DID YOU FEEL IT AND YOU WANT OUT THERE WAS A PART OF ME THAT ABSOLUTELY ABHORS THE IDEA OF DIVORCE AND I DID NOT WANT TO BE A STATISTIC, SO THERE WAS THIS PRIDE THING THAT CAME INTO PLACE FOR ME AND I'M I'M STUBBORN ENOUGH THAT THAT CAME INTO PLAY BUT THERE WAS ALSO THIS. I DON'T KNOW WHO YOU ARE.

I'M DISGUSTED BY YOU. I DON'T WANT TO BE AROUND YOU AND YEAH I WAS READY TO RUN. WHAT You SEEN HIS FACE. AFTER HE CAME BACK FROM THE COUNSELOR BECAUSE AT THAT POINT I KNEW HE WAS SERIOUS BECAUSE I COULD READ IT I OKAY WE BEEN MARRIED FOR 25 YEARS I COULD READ HIM PRETTY WELL.

BY THIS POINT.

I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY NOT THAT GREAT BECAUSE I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT PORNOGRAPHY, BUT RIGHT That FROM RIGHT, BUT THAT THERE WAS AT THIS POINT, THERE WAS SOMETHING IN HIS DEMEANOR. THERE WAS SOMETHING IN HIS MANNER THAT SAID HE SERIOUS THIS TIME. THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN AND THAT WAS AN INKLING OF HOPE. THE OTHER ONE WAS WHEN WE THE VERY FIRST DAY THAT WITHIN TWO HOURS AND WHEN HE MADE THIS REVELATION, RICK AND KATHY SAID TO US, THIS DOES NOT HAVE TO BE FATAL AND THAT WAS AN ANCHOR FOR ME TO HOLD ONTO IS NOT SO INTERESTING. YES, THAT COMMENT GAVE YOU ENOUGH OF A LINE OF SIGHT YET FUTURE.

YEAH, THAT'S AMAZING, CHRIS. I DO WANT TO ASK YOU HOW GOD CONFRONTED YOU ABOUT YOUR YOUR WEDDING VOWS TO ME THAT SOUNDS ODD AT THIS POINT. ON WHAT HOW DID GOD USE YOUR WEDDING VOWS TO BRING THAT BACK TO YOU AND SAY WAIT A MINUTE WELL TO THE LITTLE PREFACE TO THAT WAS WE TOLD YOU THAT OUR SON WAS OVERSEAS IN SCHOOL AND WE HAD TO LEAVE A MESSAGE FOR HIM AND HE CALLED HE CALLED AND TALKED WITH US AND DAVE TOLD HIM WHAT HAD HAPPENED AND HE SEMI-FORGIVE YOU, DAD, AND HE WAS AGAIN HE WAS VERY GRACIOUS BUT ABOUT 2 TO 3 WEEKS LATER I GOT A PHONE CALL AND IT WAS OUR SON FROM OVERSEAS, WHICH WAS WHERE IN A WEIRD AND WHAT HE'S TALKING AND AND I AM IN AN OFFICE AND HE SAID MOM DEAL OF MY DAD AND THAT STARTED GUY TAKING ME THROUGH MY VOWS BECAUSE WHEN HE ASKED ME THAT QUESTION WE HAD. WE HAD MET WITH THE RESTORATION TEAM AND GOT IT BEGAN HIS WORK IN ME LONG ENOUGH THAT I COULD SEE THE HELP AND I COULD TELL MY SON HONESTLY, I LOVE YOU DAD, BECAUSE LOVE IS AN ACT OF THE WILL IS NOT AN EMOTION BECAUSE RIGHT NOW I CAN'T STAND HIM.

I DON'T LIKE HIM AT ALL, BUT I LOVE HIM BECAUSE I MADE MY COMMITMENT AND THE GUY TOOK ME TO MY WEDDING VOWS LYING BY LINE AND THESE WERE THE TRADITIONAL BOX AND AS WE WORK THROUGH HIS GOD TOOK ME THROUGH THAT AND I HAD TO SAY. OKAY YES, DAVE HAS KEPT YOU KNOW FORSAKING ALL OTHERS WILL KNOW IT AND KEEP THAT ONE. YOU KNOW AND AND I GOT REALLY UPSET ABOUT THE APRICOTS AND NEITHER HAVE YOU AND I LOVE READING. I'M A READER, YOU KNOW I LOVE STORY AND GOD REMINDED ME OF SOME BOOKS THAT I HAD READ WHERE THERE WAS JUST ENOUGH TITILLATION IN THEM THAT MY THOUGHTS ARE NOT TOWARD MY HUSBAND IN SCRIPTURE TELLS US IF YOU THINK IT IN YOUR MIND YOU HAVE COMMITTED IT. I WAS GUILTY SO I COULDN'T THROW A DART AT HIM BECAUSE I WAS JUST AS GUILTY AND AS WE WORK THROUGH THOSE VOWS AND AS WE GOT TO THE END OF IT THAT THAT QUESTION THAT CAN'T THAT GOD KEPT SAYING TO ME WAS AM I TAKING TO HEAL YOUR MARRIAGE AND EITHER I BELIEVE GOD WAS BIG ENOUGH AND HE BELIEVED HE WAS WHO HE SAID HE WAS AND SAID HE IS OR HE'S NOT. AND SO THAT'S A SPIRITUAL CRISIS RIGHT THERE AND I THINK WE'VE PAINTED THE PICTURE AND WERE TO COME BACK NEXT TIME AND TALK MORE ABOUT YOUR STORY AND I THINK THE TWIST OF THIS KIRSTEN WERE CERTAINLY NOT IGNORING THE DAY FOR ME. YOU PLAY SIGNIFICANT ROLE HERE, BUT IT'S HOW GOD BEGAN TO WORK ON YOUR HEART SPECIFICALLY AND IT'S A BEAUTIFUL STORY OF REALLY THE OLDER BROTHER IN THE PRODIGAL SON STORY. HIS HEART HEART TOWARD HIS SON OR BROTHER AND I DO WANT TO PICK THAT UP BECAUSE IT'S SO RESTORATIVE AND YOU KNOW THERE WERE TWO PRODIGAL'S IN THAT STORY. THAT'S THE IRONY AND YOU HAVE WALKED THAT OUT DAVE. OBVIOUSLY, THE YOUNGER BROTHER IN THAT CONTEXT, BUT YOU HAD THE OLDER BROTHER TENDENCIES AND WORKING TO COVER THAT NEXT TIME.

MEN, IF YOU'RE IN ANY SPOT WHERE SOMETHING HAS BECOME AN IDOL IN YOUR MARRIAGE. IT MAY BE AN ADDICTION TO PORNOGRAPHY MAY BE SOMETHING ELSE. THE CONCEPTS IN THIS BOOK. CHOOSING A WAY OUT WHEN THE BOTTOM ISN'T THE BOTTOM IS FOR YOU AND LET YOU KNOW IF YOU CAN MAKE A DONATION OF ANY AMOUNT WILL GET THE BOOK TO YOU. IF YOU CAN AFFORD TO DO SO. LET US KNOW WILL SEND IT TO YOU IN FAITH TRUSTING OTHERS TAKE CARE OF THE COST OF THAT WE WANT TO HELP YOU. YOU'RE SAYING LIVING PROOF WITH DAVE AND KIRSTEN THAT WITH HOPE YOUR MARRIAGE CAN BE REDEEMED. GUESS WHAT GOD IS BIG ENOUGH YEAH HE IS AND WE DO HOPE YOU'LL CONTACT US TO GET A COPY OF THAT BOOK. CHOOSING A WAY OUT OR IF YOU NEED TO TO TALK WITH ONE OF OUR COUNSELORS WHILE WE HAVE YOU ON THE PHONE.

LET US TELL YOU ABOUT RESOURCES LIKE HOPE RESTORED, WHICH IS A TERRIFIC MARRIAGE INTENSIVE PROGRAM OF THOUSANDS OF COUPLES HAVE GONE THROUGH THIS AND THEY FOUND HOPE FOR THEIR BROKEN MARRIAGES ON THE BRINK OF DIVORCE.

IT'S AN INCREDIBLE PROGRAM AND HOPE RESTORED MIGHT BE FOR YOU.

WE ALSO HAVE A NO PORN PODCAST SERIES BY DR. GREG SMALLEY GOES MORE IN DEPTH ABOUT THE IMPACT OF PORNOGRAPHY AND HOW COUPLES CAN FIND HEALING. ALL OF THIS AND MORE. WHEN YOU CALL 800 K IN THE WORK-FAMILY OR CLICK THE LINK IN THE EPISODE'S DAVID KIRSTEN THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US TODAY. I AM REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO TOMORROW THINKING THANK YOU AND ON BEHALF OF JIM DALY, AND THE ENTIRE TEAM. THANKS FOR JOINING US TODAY FOR FOCUS ON THE FAMILY I'M JOHN FULLER INVITING YOU BACK.

AS WE CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION AND ONCE AGAIN HELP YOU AND YOUR FAMILY THRIVE.

THE SEASONS OF YOUR LIFE ARE ALWAYS MOVING FORWARD, MARRIAGE, PARENTING, AGING WELL, AND THROUGH IT ALL. FOCUS ON THE FAMILY IS ALONGSIDE YOU. WITH ENCOURAGEMENT FROM A BIBLICAL PERSPECTIVE AND NOW WE HAVE A TOOL THAT GATHERS OUR TRUST AND GUIDANCE AND SUPPORT TOGETHER IN ONE PLACE.

THE ENHANCED FOCUS ON THE FAMILY WITH IT YOU CAN LISTEN TO THE FOCUS ON THE FAMILY WANT TO ENGAGE OUR SOCIAL MEDIA COUNSELOR ALL ON THE FOCUS ON THE FAMILY AT DOWNLOADED TODAY FROM THE APP STORE OR GOOGLE PLAY