Discovering the Truth About My Identity (Part 1 of 2)

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The A in the word family. I am a pianist. I'm a manager I am a life. I'm a good person. I am single dad of two beautiful kids. I am from the south. So how do you define yourself today's Focus on the Family. Our guest is Jackie Hill. She will share how she used to view herself and what her new identity process books president and author Jim Daly and I'm John John it's so true.

One of the great struggles all of the shirt from time to time, and being human is wondering who we really are and that is a fair question. Certainly, as Christians, we know that were made in God's image and saved by Jesus but there still a temptation to find our identity in other things that seem to matter more. Our relationship surpassed our job title that is a particularly male fund and the baby were were from the south of North California that comes with a whole bunch of hype, but today Jackie Hill Perry is with us and she's got a powerful testimony. I love that Scripture talks about overcoming the evil one by the blood of the Lamb Jesus's sacrifice and their testimony.

The story that Jesus gives us news are two powerful things in this life that people can really trust in you may not believe what you read. But when somebody says this is what happened in my life. Pay attention and working to hear so many good things from Jackie Hill Perry today. In fact, her story is not only important for us to hear as we try to lovingly minister to those in the LGBT Q community. It's also an amazing illustration of the promise. We read in second Corinthians.

It says if anyone is in Christ, he or she is a new creation the old has passed away. The new has come.

And that's the story. It really is and let me add that worry me talking about some mature topics today. So parents if you've got younger ones. You might want to use the earbuds for this discussion will Jackie Hill Perry is probably best known as the spoken word artist and her palms have thousands of views on YouTube. She's also an author and has a book called gay girl.

Good God, the story of who I was and who God has always been, and we've got it.

Just look for the link in the episode show notes that Jackie welcome to Focus on the Family, thanks for having let's jump right into your story.

You say you started feeling this attraction toward women before you can even spell your own name, you know, again, people are going to be all over the spectrum of understanding this topic in the listenership and that people that really have not encountered that kind of thing and then those that have in their family. One of the one of the more frequent requests we have ears help for parents in this area with 13 has declared themselves. Same-sex attracted etc. so this is a really important topic. Some people I'm sure is and why you covering this. We need to cover it. Folks, because this is one of the deep cultural issues today, so let's paint a picture for the listener. What was that time in your life like how old were you what was going on. Yeah, I don't remember the exact age but I know it was kindergarten first grade 2nd grade, some minor yeah and I the best way I can frame it is that the same way in which you know little girls like little boys on the playground was the same way in which I liked both now and it wasn't something that I saw because this is early 90s. So is it isn't as if I was exposed to it and therefore sigh and stop oh they're gay on TV that me BAM five shoes. Those kinds of infections or attractions, but it was something that I noticed I didn't have a name for it until I went to church even asked you this the you know that attraction you and I can remember the giddiness of thinking about girls in elementary school but I didn't understand what that was mean, did you have a greater sophistication of that. Did you understand what a physical attraction was nice so I did not like them.

Okay, I wanted to be near them and close to them in a way that seemed wrong and I say wrong just because I do think that the conscience speaks now.

I do think that I was young enough to know that this isn't something that you you expose or allow your teacher to know I tell your parents about and I partially think that Disney movies help me to actually be able to identify the what is happening is and affection is an attraction but is the same way that princesses have princes is the same way I want my own strength says what was going on in your life at that time spiritually.

Were you did your family go to church.

What was your family life nice so my close, intimate family is non-Christian, but I went to church every weekend with my Morrow who is a Christian.

She was one of the most saved still is one the most safe people I've ever met my life never seen her wear one pair pants ever Saturday Friday Wednesday is proper.

Oh she's safe being around her. I think gave me a real good foundation for who Jesus was and what he required and that was a good influence on you timer it didn't create this kind of unwanted conflict for you for sure which is I think a mercy just because I think I had a level of conviction just because even though you know when your Sunday school did not teaching Romans one, but they got teaching.John 316, which is the gospel of the world that he gave his only grandson whoever believes in him shall not perish. We had do with the parish part like there is honestly some reason that Jesus had to die for sinners and I think what I'm doing is the reason that Jesus had to die. But I don't want to die for him so yeah notes through you compare your struggle with homosexuality at some point there.

I guess you're recognizing more formally again. I don't know your age but you compared it to the struggle of Adam and Eve. What was that comparison yeah I'm at Genesis 3. To me, has so many parallels to a lot of our own issues in life, but primarily one of the things that stood out to me is many things is that out to me most is how and Eve looks at the tree. She said it looks good for food, that is delight to the eyes that it desired to make one wise, that desired part was interesting is like oh she had a affection for created thing, and that's literally what Romans one says that we do is that we want the created thing more than we want, the creator and so I think what I was experiencing was the fruit of what Adam brought into this world, which is that we have this desire in this lust and this disaffection for those things that God has told us that we don't we shouldn't eat from. That's everyday.

I mean, that's part of the struggle in this life. That's what it's about is that you you describe something and I think people if you're struggling which should be just about everybody was something I want to lean into this question.

You said the devil made more sense than God. At this time. I think a lot of people that have addictions that have desires that they're not able to get control of can really identify with that statement, fill it in for me because so many of God's commands are not normative for us. I think they're counterintuitive.

I think with the devil offers makes a lot of sense. Hey, go lie on your taxes so you don't have to pay as much like to be honest and to give more than you make in to do all these things that I think God would have us do doesn't make sense to us and that's why think to do what God is told us to do takes faith and so for the person who has same-sex desires to say don't give into those desires crucify them take up your cross daily and follow Jesus that makes absolutely no sense until you actually believe that Jesus is worth following. Until you believe that he's worth it, then you're willing to crucify those things that feel so right now it's so true you know I often use this example because for me it's a good example and I don't mean to bash Peter but before you know the Lord went to the cross and before the Holy Spirit was given he's with the Lord in the garden strapping on his sword to go to battle guy right the Lord and you know what good thing a guy would do. A man look in there looks no bang he was going. I don't think he was going for the dudes ear. Number one is no first wrote in my opinion. And then Jesus rebukes in and says how you live by the sword to die by the sword. This is not the way my kingdom and then you see Stephen, who is filled with the Holy Spirit who is able to pray for those who are killing him for the Lord not to hold this against them.

I think it's not humanly possible. Frankly, to do that. I think it works against our flesh against our nature as human beings for vengeance for retribution almost thanks when you're in Christ you do almost the opposite of what your flesh wants you to do.

Yeah right. That's what you describe is unique.

You need God to obey God.

You now and I think that's the frustration of many that have grown up in church that deal with sexual identity is that they have tried.

Honestly, I think, by virtue of just wrong communication as to how to fight this. They have tried to do it in their flesh, and that is in impossible feet. When you have an affection in an attraction for women or men that will be there possibly for the rest of your life and to have to fight and push against it. You need the resurrected power of Jesus to help you do that, Jackie. Let me also fill in the picture for the folks that are listening about your relationship with your dad your mom at the time, etc. all the stuff that's evolving in your early childhood you had some really difficult experiences with men help paint the picture force when a man before that there's my dad who was very inconsistent, he would be in my life for year dropout for to be there for five months dropout for three years, so I think that that just created a narrative like men are not trustworthy, not consistent that you called him the sometimes dead, that really that's true for all of us is that as we go to be careful not to become the sometimes all the time. He jumped and when it was convenient right which is so contrary to the father.

I think one thing I know, and then the other instances that I was molested. I don't know if I was seven, which, going to therapy out one thing my therapist said that stuck out to me issues. I do you ever remember being hugged or kissed or touched by your father before you were molested as I know I don't. She was like that tells me that your first male affection was through abuse and so what does that do to the mind, or even to share memories and never have experience affection from a man in a healthy way. And you know Jackie something that's in your book, and I felt this to having an alcoholic father.

The resiliency of a child's heart for their parents, they can take a lot.

You still have this unbelievable love for your mom and dad even if they harm you or ignore you or whatever it is is in the truth, and hope you always have hope that you hold that they'll love you back one day.

I think that's exactly what Jesus said you know if your heart's not like a child meant that childlike hope and desire. It's a beautiful way to say it but you describe the day. Your dad said some words that cut she really deeply. What did you say yeah we were at his sister's house he was drinking not drinking a lot but age, drinking, and they were playing cards and all this and he mentioned how he notices that I don't call them dad, you know, I just never called him by a name I would just speak just because I didn't think he deserved to be called dad and he said you know what something is interesting about me, which is that I love you I love you I love the children.

I love my life, but if tomorrow you guys never want to speak to me again.

It would bother me and he was so sincere. He wasn't even try to be cruel. He was being honest and that scared me because it told me. Oh, you won't change the hope that I have stored up for you actually is a waste of my time did it nullify the first statement. The second one when you hear that you're excited one. It did because my dad was interesting person.

One is been said that he might've been bipolar. So that's a factor. He was depressive. He was mildly narcissistic so that to me when I became a Christian actually had empathy because I saw a man that just was incapable of serving someone other than himself. And so when he told me that it was kinda like he wanted me to understand why he can't be as president because he just doesn't have the ability to that's not to say the heat he shouldn't of been held accountable but it is to say that he needed more help that I could give way undermines me to for all of us as parents, especially in a we can tease a lot.

I think dad's have the ability to teach kids and you doing it for fun.

Be careful if it is what you say can really cut their heart even in a way that's unintentional in your to be having that conversation. 1015 years. From that moment in your son or daughters can remember that you're not going to remember that all but there is said that you remember when you said this to me what and I mean that's the kind of thing about your dad.

You know, if you were alive today, he might say that and never knew that I said that. But many fathers will have that lack of recollection and Jackie in light of what you experienced with men, and that conversation with your dad.

Where were you emotionally in the aftermath of all that with my father yeah well just in life generally. Probably not. I think now I'm really learning to feel. I think having a husband having children, but I think my coping mechanism was instead of me allowing people. My father the abuse. All of this to affect me. I'm just going to withdraw emotions and not feel anything which is really super harmful I think. But that's all I knew how to do at the time so to pick up the story then maybe around junior high. I'm not sure. Correct me if I'm wrong, you started to dress more like a man high school and and you obviously were recognizing or accepting the same sex attraction that you had.

Was it exclusive to that. Did you only have that desire for other girls and guys were like not even be there cute and they were cute but I think the thing that women had was they had the ability to have my emotions because again I was afraid to give my motions to someone that would abuse on the take advantage in my entire life. Women had always seemed faithful and sell. For me that's what it was. I think the dressing more masculine. Honestly, I think when you grow up in this culture where you don't want to wear dresses.

The automatic thing that they tell you is you being a Tom boy or you acting like a boy I'm I think they do the same thing to boys that might lean more emotional.

You're acting like a girl as if emotions are a feminine trait. The actually human. And so I think were just reaping the fruits of not teaching what the Bible says about you and will the obvious question is how can that be done and how do we reinforce those binary gender to deconstruct our understanding of gender and look at it through the lens of Scripture for itself absolutely doesn't the Bible say that being a woman means you wear pink does the Bible say being overly emotional makes you feminine. Does the but you know nothing like we make these kinds of things Bible and they don't exist in the Scriptures, that's true. I want to conduct something you said as well, which is that having a girlfriend became her felt like as natural as smiling for you a line that had been billeted in what what are you getting you yeah the first time I interacted with a girl I thought I would be more nervous. I thought it would feel strange I thought it would feel forced, but it felt normal. To me, which again goes against Romans one, Romans one because it unnatural but it felt natural and so I think this is why hearing you know homosexuality is unnatural are wrong. I think that's what we have to have a sense of empathy when we preach it because it is wrong. By faith I know it's wrong, but it doesn't feel wrong didn't feel wrong ever at that time and so that goes back to your statement of the things of the enemy are more natural than the things of God/that's true.

That's where that connects for me.

You have a compelling story about a time when you and your girlfriend encountered a violent man and this is really interesting to me. You know I'm always when I'm talking to some of them looking for the gold nugget.

What was that thing the Lord did that was profound. This strikes me is that moment for you in your life. It was one of them. We were at a hotel that knows a guy was mad about something. I'll know what he is, but he was big, big, and me. He had muscles and he was me and he was I guess they are to attack somebody and I'm playing you know the masculine role of the male role in the relationship and so I'm supposed to be the protector and you're there with your girlfriend yeah but I had this strong sense of I can't protect her and I need somebody to protect me, and I think it was the Holy Spirit. It also just brought it just reminded me of who I actually was like you are a woman and you need to become the woman that God created you to be again.

And so it was a weird yet strange little situation but I think the Holy Spirit used it to bring me back to truth is you're talking Jackie and thinking about the dichotomy between the flesh and the spirit and how natural things are and how were encouraged through a culture follow your desires just be who you want to be. Do what you want to do it's all good. That's not the case.

Though Scripture is pretty clear about that was their conviction going on in that moment well. The interesting thing about me. I think because I kinda was raised in church.

I was convicted the entire time I was never at peace when I was actively a lesbian and I think that is just it's hard to do that when you seen or heard stories about Jesus when you seen him lived out in someone's life when you know that he has more for you when you know that he died and rose for you. I it's a hard thing but it also felt impossible to obey him is like. I know I'm supposed to, but I don't know how to start rather just continue to be disobedient than try to force myself to be something that I can't be there. Here, Jackie. One of the difficult things and you know I've reached out to the LGBT community. I have a couple of really strong friends in the community and we don't give up on each other's convictions, right. I restart almost every conversation. Hey, I believe marriage is between one man and one woman, and no say I totally disagree, but we talked about. It's hard to start a conversation or develop a friendship on the differences start in the place of humanity. What you suffer from what you know what's difficult in your life and I think that's were more in the Christian community. If we had connection with people in the LGBT community. We would have that empathy.

The point of it is Jesus empathized with everyone he connected the woman caught in adultery etc. in the I guess the point I'm driving towards when we look at Scripture. What they failed to sometimes recognizes we didn't write the book I mean it's there for everybody to read. So when you look at Romans one and Romans two, which is convicting to the believer, you know that you do these very things that you accuse other people talk about so be careful when you're a hypocrite. That's what that Scripture is talking about and I think the point is that were all fallen, we all fall short of fulfilling the law and we need the grace that Jesus provides to us, speak to that issue, though, how you can't tap dance the Scripture. I mean it's there in plain sight, especially the New Testament. I mean, you can't look people are trying and sort of succeeding. You have people who because of their own passions they will accumulate for themselves teachers who suit those passions, they have these itching ears. I think the emphasis has to go back to the God of the Scriptures you know I think the Scriptures are repulsive. If God is not explained as he is. Meaning I think it would've been super helpful for me if when people gave me the gospel.

They actually told me about Jesus. They often just said repent. Go to hell. God is holy.

He requires this. All of those are true, but you have not told me about the beauty of God, not telling me about the beauty of Jesus, you have not even told me about the power that he would give me to be able to obey you just told me to obey without power as I think we have to get back to explaining the Bible and explaining the Jesus of the Bible in the same way that the apostles did in the prophets in the psalmist it when you look at the way they talked about God.

We don't use that same kind of language and I think we should know one of the Scriptures. I had the team just pull it up. First Corinthians 69 through 11 we just read it and then you respond to, because again were followers of it were not editors.

I remember encountering a activist of same-sex attracted activists and he said when you Christians going to get out of your hyper medieval sexual thing and come into the 21st century, and I just smiled and I could tell irritated your smile were followers of the book were not editors of the book is very kind of you to want to make me the editor that this is written by the hand of God through people over a long period of time, and I'm sorry if it offends you, but I would suggest it could set you free.

And that, let me just read first written services or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God. Do not be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor violators nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God and such were some of you that's the beautiful part you were there, but implying they came out of inspector goes on to say, but you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the spirit of our God and were all there and that's the only way and that that's hopefully the compelling reason to continue to speak lovingly to people not judge mentally.

Jesus said I'm not here to judge the world. The father will do that in us and I love that verse. I've taught it a lot. One to encourage Christians to when you do first Corinthians 69 through 10 and 11. Don't leave off 11 we land on 10 don't be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral nor dollars less one that was one heck kingdom of God.

But we I get to 11. That's what hope is and such were some of you, but I think another important aspect is that when Paul wrote that letter he wrote it to a church so it is fascinating that he is telling the church you don't be deceived about this. You know, and so I think there's so many things that we can glean from that but I think one is that God is able to save anybody. Jackie, those are great words and again as I started this program you're coming from that experience that you know what it felt like when you work walking with the Lord and what you were battling with and that's one of the reasons I wanted to talk with you and hear your heart. You've done the journey I've not had that you had different journey by my own issues, but I think in this culture. Right now we need clear voices and I think those that have struggled with the come to appreciate the love of God in their life and moving toward that sanctification process. This is what makes you so powerful in the culture. I know your voice for God so powerful right now I want to come back next time and continue the discussion because we just kinda laid the groundwork about where you're at what you're experiencing, but we've got to hear the rest of the story where God really know it exploded in a joyful way in your life and you came back to him or came to him. We do that special man I'm telling you guys, we need to be having these conversations and I know that for some of you you're already having these discussions because this is something you're experiencing within your own family. If that describes you and you need help handling it. Please feel free to reach out to us here focus. We have caring Christian counselors who are well-versed in helping people navigate same-sex attraction issues.

In fact, that these are some of the most common calls we received they would be honored to pray with you and help you find a long-term help in your local area.

Whether that's for you or a family member.

Yeah, absolutely.

You can set up a time for your complementary counseling consultation when you call 800 K and the word family were there's a counseling request form online.

Just click the link in the episode show notes and for those of you who have a heart for reaching people in the LGBT Q community and equipping Christians to address these tough cultural topics. Please consider coming aboard our team here focus our supporters are the fuel that keeps the ministry going allows us to show love and care in the hope of Christ with people who may be far from him at this time I am times are tough.

Why I get it. But if you can give a financial gift to the ministry of focus for any amount you are making ministry happen and will send you a copy of Jackie's powerful book gay girl. Good God, the story of who I was and who God has always been, and it will be our way of saying thank you and let me also mentioned that we have a matching gift opportunity right now some donors and friends of ministry of stepped up and said we will match dollar for dollar. Any donation that comes in right now so it's a win-win.

When you give today.

You'll get a copy of Jackie's book in your donation will be doubled and go twice as far for helping marriages, equipping parents, and even saving babies lives again. Call us 800 K word family or check the notes for the link on behalf of Jim Daly and the entire team.

Thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family I'm John Fuller inviting you back. As we once again from Jackie O. Perry and help you and your family. Thriving Christ. Lately my family has been feeling tired and restless case for you.

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