Turning Toward Others

Jesus said if anyone would be my follower, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. Jen Oshman thinks we're not talking about death to self enough we can die in a million ways. It can be going across the street and letting her enteral neighbor to be going across the city to be going across the ocean to be going across the bedroom to extend forgiveness to a spouse or to a child can be returning a blessing for a cursing in the workplace in the church, wherever that death to solve is required for disciples of Jesus. This is family life today hosts are Damon and Wilson on Bob Lapine can find us online@familylifetoday.com.

How would your marriage or family. All of your relationships, for that matter, how would they look different if you were committed to the idea of dying to self will explore that today with Jen Oshman will stay with us and welcome to family life to the thanks for joining us this was many years ago. John Piper was a guest on family life to and he was telling us about how around their house. He would from time to time become whiny. There would be things. It was a man I just throw me under.

This is because they aren't you glad you're not married to Weiner but I guess that the work they would be would grumble or complain about things that he said my family will break out in song when I do that is that there's this worship chorus was in our church that it's all about you, Jesus, but they would change it to. It's all about you Johnny that I thought you could just pop out Johnny and putting Bobby or Davey or any of any of us, for that matter, because there are times in life where we get so fixated so focused on self that we become unbearable to the people around us. In some ways the cultures celebrated. You are supposed to do that right.

We all have a voice. Now we need to let our voice be heard. That's what we're hearing, learn well until you come across a book like enough about me, and then you go. Maybe there's some correction needs to have been here Jen Oshman is joining us again on family life today. Welcome back.

John is the author of that book. Enough about she is a mom of four daughters living in the Parker Colorado with her husband who is a pastor at a local church there. Jen and her husband spent 15 years on the mission field. Tell us about how you guys got to the mission field what you were doing their else but that whole chapter of your life.

Sure well when Mark and I got married. We both had a vision and a passion for the nations we wanted to go overseas. It was something that we are unified in from day one. So we went with Kate international which is a ministry to American military members overseas and I'm he pastored in Okinawa, Japan, and that everybody that we minister to his American military members living in Japan so is really sweet to be part of a local American church but on the other side of the world and it was a community that was obviously because they were military members. They were living for a bigger purpose and a bigger passion and sort of the average American dream or the average American life. They were a people who were excited about the gospel excited about the mission and vision of the church and so and people who needed to know were outside of the normal American life such that they were asking bigger questions. They are asking more about the meaning of life and what's afterlife.

And so it was a fruitful ministry was a blast. I mean they are the sort of like the best years of our life. We loved it, but we also had a burden and a desire and just save a passion to see the name of Christ, exalted in the Czech Republic. It's one of the most atheist nations on the planet less than one half of 1% of check people know Jesus as their Lord and Savior so very spiritually dark context and that was something that just sort of hung over us all of our years there in Japan and so we finally made the move and partnered with a local check church in went about church planting and burn no Czech Republic, not dream was cut short in God's providence and kindness and sovereignty.

Even still, it feels all but painful to talk about it. We envision ourselves there forever never but my father was languishing with Alzheimer's and dementia so we came back to take care of him and that's what brought us back to Colorado where were from that light can coming back. Was it a culture shock.

Yeah man really was a real literacy is a long time. We had taken a newborn with us and then everybody else was born in Asia so it was disorienting for our kids, you know, America was another foreign country for them and it was disorienting for us because and I will.

I just to confess this like a lot of our identity was wrapped up in being overseas missionaries. So if were not on the mission field, and who are we know what value we bring to the table in terms of the church in the kingdom and just being human beings. You know, so it was hard there was some just normal in no growth sent the how to take place. Culture shock had to take place but also some refining and pruning of the Lord just revealing to us that we are his.

We belong to him. And it's not about what we can conjure up and produce on our own. It's about the story that he's writing that he's invited us to be a part of the heart of your book. Enough about me is that we have to understand that our identity exists apart from our activity in order for our activity to make sense and part of the challenge. All of us run into is. Who are we, apart from our activity, write the things that define us in everyday life are the things we do things were known for.

And yet, if we don't have a solid understanding of who we are. Apart from those things as children of God beloved of God, accepted by God, then all of the stuff we do if that's what defines us. God can start to prove that take away take you out of the Czech Republic put you somewhere else and say now who are you, yes that's a good word.

I think were experiencing at the middle of his current affairs pandemic here in 2020, all of us do identify so strongly with the office that we go to in the morning. The teams that were on the clubs that were part of the activities that we do, that's who we are and those have been stripped away in 2020, and that has been painful, but a blessing.

Also a gift of God and a gift of grace as we are reminded no I am not my activities. I am not what I produce. I am a child of God and I'm his vessel to do with as he pleases. What you think about this and really what everybody thinks about this because as I've been pondering your book and thinking about the subject am wondering, do men and women do we do our sense of self differently so if a woman is fixating on her identity of a man is fixating on his identity and thinking about it wrongly, our sin patterns going to be different nor talking is what my son likes to say generalities.

These are gender-based generalities, but is our self focus, a different kind of self focus.

Maybe I'm thinking to the garden where Adams passivity is matched with eves is controlling her and her susceptibility to temptation her. Was this an achievement. I mean, was she reaching out thinking who I would like to be like God and was out of one okay whatever you I'm I'm just trying to I don't know that I will answer.

Maybe your listers will write us and tell us what the right answer, and I think we all know the heart or the center. The foundation of it is sin or selfishness enough of me is a selfless I can focus on me anymore.

I remember just in my mind I got to play in this little golf charity outing years ago a former Detroit Lions player sent me a text. It's classic for me. That said, hey, would you like play my golf outing such and such a date would love to have you, and in my first response in the text that he should've known this was coming. Well yeah I'm free that day. But how much is it because I'm always about how much money is going to cost me even those going to a charity rate and drew text back right away because all you be a celebrity. Celebrities are free and I text back. You and I both know I'm not a celebrity, what you thought about. He goes will.

Here's how it works. A foursome pays $1000 to play with a celebrity and that's how we raise the money and he said on making you a celebrity because you won't come unless we do so, long story short, I'm in right I get to the golf course in I'm looking around and there's real celebrities there. He played at Michigan State.

So there's Magic Johnson there's a head coach in their time as all these people are and you can see the foursomes like there looking like who's going to be my celebrity so I'm like oh boy this is not good when my torso realizes me so they give you you know you go to this group as I walk up and it was two couples. They were married there, their spouses actually were working the tournament but they were paired together and I walk up Grande Wilson they would your name and they said their name and then they all look a minute ago what you introduce yourself, like all I didn't tell you, I'm your celebrity and ago you know I'm a friend I'm a friend of Drew's. I didn't want to tell him the lion's chaplain enema pastor because I thought it freaked him out so you said. I'm a friend of Drew's and I go, that's nice, but you must be important that your celebrity year are celebrity as Magic Johnson walk and I got all well on the chaplain Detroit Lions and this dude looks amigos rate so that means we can't cause and we can drink. That's what he said when I go it gets better. Not a good golfer either.

Here's what dies during we go out golf and their great people right and were unlike the temple and all of a sudden this wife that was in the other card walks up to me were on the putting green and she goes hey John here says your marriage expert to what he says your writing a book on marriage and you and your wife speak, run a country marriage so your marriage expert. I got him no marriage expert. She goes like this. Why got a marriage question.

What's it. She was I'm in my second marriage. What's the problem with marriage.

Oh here we are on a putting green. She's looking at me like I have this answer, and I've got a minute I got 20 seconds and I'm looking at her like oh boy, and she minute and so on.

There forget it just came to my mind ago. Oh that's easy I can answer that with one word. She goes really what set. This is classic.

There forget this. I go that word would be selfishness. She goes you are so right. My first husband was so selfish. His eyes look at I go I'm not done by her first husband and I would like to say something but you and me and she said to me all and then later she said I've never heard a pastor say was selfish. You said you were selfish. I go that's the problem is so me and even the answer is a woman or a man different yeah were different. I think in the way it plays out. But at the heart of it. We think about me because were selfish were sinners of course were to focus on that of and then if we look into me to find the answer for me. Whenever you find and that is why your book, so treat us like we have to go vertical and say what does he say this is why you and your book say. Ultimately, the solution to this me fixation that we have is a gospel realignment and understanding of the gospel to goes deeper than most of the superficial understandings of the gospel that we are experiencing in contemporary American Christianity right right what I'm seeing across the church in the United States and let me be clear, I love the church. I have been a missionary for two decades in women's ministry. I'm a pastor's wife.

We planted a church.

I love the bride of Christ, and I don't mean to knock her but I do mean to critique her and that is that we have been very self focus in our churches as well and we sort of come up with this consumer centric faith. How can we fill the pews. How can we build a bigger building. We pay the pastor's salary and so were being noteworthy. Hearing sermons were hearing lessons were in Bible studies or in groups or in fellowships that are driving this consumer train there building this sort of institution of the church rather than the fellowship in the body and the family that I think Jesus intended in the first century and so my desire is that we as a church and we as individuals, we take our eyes off ourselves.

Stop seeking to build our institution. Stop seeking to build our own little kingdom, and we would do what Jesus said, which is take up your cross and follow me.

Whoever would follow Jesus would then come and die. That is all over the word of God and we don't talk about it very often. But that is the subtitle to my book is find lasting joy in the age of self and that counterintuitively counter to our flash counter to our culture. That is where joy is found us and we die to ourselves. So is that look like as you say very specifically in the book, lasting joy is found in picking up your cross and explain that what's at mass and and you know what it's like. It's so counter flash like when even hearing you say that I mean up and soaking in this message. For years, even hearing you say that a little bit of my heart is likely to start really true that I'm on national radio and in those early drill because it doesn't feel good and it's not the narrative that were hearing in pop culture in movies and TV on Instagram and newspapers. I mean narrative that were hearing his eating is all about you. You make it happen. This you are unique individual, and you can curate the best life for you. Now you know that's really counter to ourselves that even hearing that makes me cringe a little bit but it's true.

The Scriptures are all of commands and admonishments and invitations and encouragements to die to ourselves and spectra you know we can't be putting pastors and missionaries on some sort of pedestal and saying what they're really dying to themselves.

You know that's not true. In acts 17.

The Lord is clear that he has put us in the times and places that we are for a reason and it is so that we would seek him and find him.

So I'm in America right now for a reason.

And so are you and everybody listening wherever they are all over the world. It's not a mistake that the Lord would have each of the listeners where they are in 2020. In this moment and said that we would seek out and find him and we can die in a million ways. It can be going across the street and loving our literal neighbor to be going across the city can be going across the ocean. It can be going across the bedroom to extend forgiveness to a spouse or to a child. It can be returning at learn this at we can to remember two decades ago. It can be returning a blessing for a cursing in the workplace in the church, wherever, but death to self is required for disciples of Jesus. And it's not popular at something we drift away from all day every day but it's in there that's where we find lasting joy when I wrote my book.

Love, like you mean one of the discoveries for me. One of the things I had to really wrap my head around is that sacrificial self giving love is the key to the kind of fulfilling joy filled relationship that God designed for us and that's the counterintuitive paradoxical nature of the gospel that the first or last.

The last or first that everything is upside down. If you want to be great. Be a servant.

If you sacrifice yourself and die to self, you will find life and joy and fulfillment.

We just don't think no sacrifice to self is where you find despair is where you find its drudgery. Who wants to sacrifice and God says do this and watch joy explode in your life and even as I'm saying that I'm thinking is up for real right do I want to do that today because the flesh wants what it wants.

And yet the gospel says this is a whole different economy that God has created his ways are not our ways and to follow his ways are gonna be the source of the kind of fulfilling joy were looking for. Seven years ago I met a young woman and I heard that she had tried to take her life several times. She's 19 years old and I said to her, if you ever want to talk I'd be so happy to sit down and just talk to you, and I was shocked that the next day she called me and asked if she could come over so she came over and she was telling me about how she had tried to take her life. Several times she really has struggled with depression and the silicide has been on her mind constantly.

She was a D1 soccer player who was injured and her career was now on hold and that had been her life and so I asked her to tell me who you are and she said I only know who I used to be. I used to be a soccer player in my life used to have meaning and I said that's what you do.

Who are you and she said I have no idea so I explained the gospel to her and I said what Jesus wants is your life.

All of you everything to lay it down because he's the one that created you and he's the one that knows you and she said I can't give all of that I can't surrender that I can't die to myself because it sounds so wrong and yet she was trying to die herself the next day she called me again and said can I talk again and I said yeah and so she kind of went through the things she was struggling with about God and then she goes okay.

I can't write to myself to God. Sounds like the scariest thing in the world they said it is because you really don't know what he has in store. But he's the one that needs you and so did discover who he is is discover who you are.

The next day she calls me because I did it.

I just want you to know I did it.

It's so interesting because in your book you talk about how suicide is on the rise more than ever right.

Right. It is, and even amongst young girls ages 10 to 14 and also among scrum women as well and I think it's because we are looking with and we don't know who we are because we don't know who made us, and how he made us, and for what purpose and were living for this temporary life that is fragile and broken, and we know that the things we live.

Our careers are for the soccer player. Her body gave out on her careers will give out retirement accounts will give out. We cannot be dependent. We cannot identify with the things that we do. We must lose ourselves and identify with Christ right. We are dead and raised to life with Christ and that's where joy is found. It's one of the scariest thing so and it means we are having dinner last week with Copeland and this husband was saying he has a big decision to make and he was getting some counsel from friend is always going through the pros and cons of that so I say here's how to do this and his friend said you know you signed up for when you gave her life to Christ and Craig's eye think so goes here's what you signed up for any slips a piece of paper over that's blank and he said you signed on the bottom to a blank sheet that's all you need to know God's in control of what's on a paper you don't know what you know who is and that's losing your life to an unknown future.

Are you willing to sacrifice and Craig's eye I'm in and that's what we did but it's scary. It's initially scary, but it's sustaining right you know that moment read okay I surrender.

I belong to you.

Blank sheet of paper, whatever you want to do that is scary, but it's sustaining because we know who he is and he's the God who raised from the dead.

He conquered sin and death and he's coming again preaching, we will reign with him forever know when it's a new heaven and the new earth. So our future is certain, and this is the sustainable way to live in a culture and a place in a time where things are broken and fallen and disappoint and hurt and betray our God reigns and he will help us talk about your daughter's okay how do you talk to them what he saying to them, tell us about them of what you would say is your teaching. This is who you are.

While I have four daughters, so the ones that are Homer, 13, 15 and 17, said three girls at home are teenagers and one who is 23. We adopted her from Thailand when she was 12, so now she lives in North Carolina with her husband is in the Army and they actually have a granddaughter so I am actually a grandmother so lots of girls in our life and my husband loves to say the joke that he is in full-time women's ministry, which she is so joy raising these daughters has been a joy but also scary.

He noticed such a thrilling and terrifying responsibility before the Lord, we tell them all the time. I mean, we actually voted out the Oshman family manifesto has been routed out years ago we go back to it all the time and basically our mission statement or vision statement as parents as we would just love for our children. If God would allow our children would know him and love him more than anything else or anyone else in the whole world and whatever he's called them to her gifted them to her asked them to do it. It doesn't matter so much. You know they can go work at the neighborhood restaurant. They can be stay-at-home moms. They can be the CEO of a bank they can be missionaries. They can be doctors. We that's not really for us.

What is it for us is that they would know their maker and they would cherish their Savior. And I think whatever life brings them that whatever sickness, whatever you know failure whenever seen that they actually might fall into or commit themselves whatever shame comes upon them. All of those things are small compared to their great God who loves them infinitely without condition beyond comprehension.

So my desires that they would know him and love him and walk with him and somewhere always try to put before them and just have a culture and ethos of grace in our home as you coach. Other parents is that what you would say yes. I praise the Lord neither has or ever raising Christian homes that my husband had an amazing mentor is Pastor Kita when he was a young adult who really understood grace and he just showered, my husband, and grace all the time and so my husband had this tremendous foundation of grace is understanding the gospel that I am not the sum total of my work and not the sum of my sins, and not the sum of what I can produce I am in Christ and what is that look like practically at home when you talk to your daughters when you say your home is full of grace. Give us an example of what that could look like yeah I mean it look like her like his loosey-goosey family that has no boundaries by any means. My kids would definitely tell you what, you know, for example, now I'm not a parenting expert so you might want to edit this out later Bob is just correct all of it Bob if needed with three teenage girls. Of course, what's a major question in our home all the time is like dating 90 and we have not ever had dating rules. We have not said, you gotta be this age.

You gotta be that you know we've never made a rule we just always said let's see who you are and let's see who he is and will talk about it and that has been distorted rather than being maybe legalistic or having like certain things to live by. It's been more like let's discuss it with what is God doing in your life. What's God doing in this boy's life. What God can do through both of you and let's talk it through. So rather than really rules heavy. We try to be really just discussion heavy all relationship. What is God doing your relationship with the Lord your relationship with us.

Now there are consequences. When people do dumb things that happens. But we do.

Just try keeping it activate your identity is not in this and your identity is not in this boyfriend or this grade or what college you get into your identity is the resurrected say and I think what you're hidden is so critical because wealth isn't just about me and I got a go vertical to find out who I am and it won't be about me anymore. It's about him. I really got to know so it sort of motivates you to say man.

If the word of God is the way I know what am I doing with my time. Say I've got to get in the day I came to Christ and because my mentor said a man of God is a man of this book and I just looked at my I have no idea what's in a book I've laughed at that book my whole life I've got to know that book and I want to say to the husband's and dad's listening right now you gotta become a man of this book the women out there you gotta become a woman of this book you will discover in a beautiful way who he is and then who you are and it will be about you anymore and you will discover he is truly enough and you'll know him well enough to be oldest. Be confident in that. What if there were book clubs of women guys mother's daughters, fathers and sons who were absorbing this message. Enough about me.

Let's talk about God.

Let's talk about his agenda. Let's talk about his purposes let's leave focus.

What's at the center of our lives. We've all seen that classic illustration that says who's on the throne right you on the throne got on the throne.

And that's something that were dealing with every day of our lives.

Who's on the throne at this moment was on the throne in this event.

In this circumstance whose priorities do I care most about your book. Enough about me is pointing us away from that self fixated orientation were so glad you came and talked with us about this at the car listers have gotten the needed wheel alignment from this conversation. Thank you. Some praise God, and I would encourage listeners to get a copy of your book. Enough about me finding lasting joy in the age of self go through this with a friend.

If you're able to do some kind of small group or book club right now have everybody go through this book together may be read through parts of it together as a family. This issue is critical to our spiritual growth in the title of the book is enough about me finding lasting joy in the age of self by John Oshman.

You can order the book from us online@familylifetoa.com or call to order at one 800 FL today again the website is family life to the.com or you can call one 803 586-329-1800 F as in family L as in life, and then the word today to get a copy of Jan's book that we have recently updated and upgraded the family life to day app which is available in your app store, David Robbins, who's the person family life is here to talk about were pretty excited about this tape yeah Bob, I got something I've been wanting to talk about for a while because things we've always been committed to a family life is connecting with families knowing their needs be able to pray for people in their hearts and in their joys and in July, my inbox was flooded with over 2300 prayer request after an email I sent out asking how can we pray for you and it was a privilege for Meg and myself and our team to pray for you and your families and it motivated me motivated our teams and family life to continue to trust God doing more to help families will be available 24 seven.

And that's why we have launched this new app we got to work and we are very excited to bring you new content. Great content like family life to a and so many other resources that are available to you at the click of a button at the Lucerne and Greg recently emailed me and said we been starting to tune into the app to catch up on the shows we missed on the radio. It helped give us hope. It's like drinking a cup of cool water on a warm day so refreshing your app store search for the family life app and download it from there. We look forward to continuing the journey with you and the ways are growing. Thank you, David. Tomorrow we want to talk about the challenges black parents are facing. Trying to raise children in our current cultural moment Jasmine Holmes was going to join us to talk about a book she's written called mother to son.

She's grappling with some of these issues and will talk with her about it tomorrow. Hope you can tune in for that engineer today. Keith Lynch along with our entire broadcast production team on behalf of our hosts Dave and Ann Wilson and Bob Lapine will see you back next time for another edition of family life, family life, to a is a production of family life of Little Rock, Arkansas.

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