Being Real

A good friend is somebody who tells you the truth, who speaks the truth in love, peers, author Kelly Needham had a friend sit down with me and she knew it was a hard season for me and that he says that when she shared with me was I know you're in high season Kelly back. You are so focused on your own problems right now that you don't even have the ability to see anybody else's. I didn't see it because my head was just so down in my own heart and mass. This is family life today. Our hosts are David and Wilson Bob team find us on one family life to the.com. The Bible talks about the wounds of a friend.

To be honest there still wounds but God uses them powerfully in our lives talk more about that today would Kelly need to stay with us. Welcome to family life to. Thanks for joining us. I was driving from my Nashville to Little Rock. This was many years ago I was on a stretcher road between Jackson, Tennessee in Memphis.I can imagine where this is going here so I'm I'm listening as I drive I like to listen to sermons or to a minimum audio learner so I I look forward to long trips to drives because I get to listen to a bunch of stuff I said that you you've never one time. Listen to a day Wilson sermon okay go's move on but I'm just guessing that Imad met to my podcast right now, here we go up but I was listing to a series from Paul David Tripp and he had done a series on the need for community in the local church and he used the phrase in that like I could show you the mile marker in the road as I think I backed it up and dictated it into my phone so that I would remember the phrase in its something we've used our church over and over again. He says I hope the church is made up of people who have your hero has greater grace based on Christ centered intentionally intrusive redemptive relationships and I kind of took that apart and just started chewing grace based which means were always good to give our friends Grace were always going to say okay I know I know you messed up I messed up but were to minister to one another. Grace really Christ centered working to have that same focus were to be intentionally intrusive. That's one where people always go I don't know about intentionally intrusive right. I don't know what I want you get in my business unless I tell you, but intentionally intrusive says no you got free reign, you can ask whatever you want. I'll be honest and and that's risky but that's real and then redemptive were not doing this for any purpose other than so that all of us can grow in grace together to be more like Christ. I bring that up because I thought of it as I was reading through the book friend dish written by Kelly Needham whose joining us as we on family life today Kelly, welcome back, thinking Kelly is an author and a speaker who lives in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. Her husband Jimmy. Is he still a recording artist used when was last time he recorded CD man it's probably been three or four years now is a worship pastor and Jimmy actually came to a day of prayer we were doing with the family life staff to do know this couple years ago and that was just ministered to us in a profound way. Kelly is written this book I mentioned called friend dish and again that definition just jump to mind for me because you're talking about these kinds of relationships and the need for them in the power for them and church ought to be a place that's a natural breeding ground for this right should be. And sadly, we I think most of us have seen us in churches that the superficiality of our friendships is sometimes not any different in the world than it is in the church and while waiting for someone else to descending about that and I think at the end of the day.

If you have a heart to see that change then you go eat at change in your community that you want to see that will both be really hard and scary and will cost you something, but it will actually bring about probably the richest flashing of deep and meaningful friendships that you have otherwise by taking that risk and jumping in there and I know I stared at him in the last program sent about my willingness to do that to you email people and say will you be my friend and and really go that that direction and invite those people in my life. But then you know that intrusive part came back to bite me like oh I forgot I'm welcoming back to you and I know theoretically I want that when it's actually in front of you is it feels very different to remember a time when you froze up on somebody getting intrusive with you. I have more stories to That I could even share right now, but one particular friend of mine sat down with me and we were just giving you difficulty to just catch up to the bathroom. Later, she was nervous about what she had to share with me when to go collectors up, she came back down. It was totally different.

Need to talk to about something and I was like I have no idea what's coming because we are really good friends but I could tell she had something to share that was going to be very hard for you.

Sharon had to do with me and has essentially she shared some hurt. She had felt for me that was totally intentional. My conscience had yet been picked by you know is a blind spot in my life and she had shared a few things at me over the past month and as a verbal processor and a Bible student I had like sermon eyes tear.

In response just processed me think of this and I'm learning and she needs somebody to listen, but instead I probably talked to her for like half an hour about what I was learning and it was really hurtful and I couldn't see it and I think she knew that, and she had stopped wanting to hang out with me and she valued our friendship enough to say something and so she took a big risk to go there with me and share some specific examples when it happened, and as soon as she shared I could see it gave me eyes to see, I totally get that I couldn't see it before. Thank you for sharing. I cried.

She cried.

We prayed together. She prayed for me and was like I'm not mad at you I just value our friendship and I needed to say that and that has produced home I treated my life because it helped me see that blind spot helped me have a category for not everybody needs to hear what you're learning.

Kelly send and they just need someone to listen and some of these need to have fun. If they're in heavy season. They don't need to hear all of the ways that this Hebrew word means this thing about grief and suffering. They just probably need to go see a movie with you and sat you to say I love you and I needed somebody to help me see that that's where the value of a friend is so critical that's right because we all have blind spots limit royalty because I don't. Everybody does a I'll tell you that it's enough to see them because their blind spot exercise years ago with these guys in my life. We're meeting once a month, have a meal together spend the whole night in one of our houses, talking and studying whatever we decide. I think it was my idea.

Let's identify each other's blind spots as a group, which by one my idea that I think about it was like what yes so Wednesdays night and we did this so I leave the room, six or seven guys are in a room talking about me there to decide what three things we said give me three gifts we call them gifts, give me a gift and I remember what I went into the kitchen of this is no way is there a Mike I hope this is over like five minutes. That means there aren't that many in it.

I was up to 25, 30 minutes.

Mike oh my goodness. I go in there. There was things I did in this group as I member I brought to them a pass that I was given as Detroit Lions chaplain for every game they give you an all access pass to the stadium so I can be on the sideline being like room and all the security will look at the past so I gave this to these guys and said I'm not given this pass to more than five or six people my life, but you have all access which was a beautiful pictures like this in the congregation but my wife has this she can ask me anything she can probe anywhere she wants you guys can do so, lessor, the blind spot. The number walk back in there and sit down. So here goes. All access and I go you okay Dave, here's your top three, and I wanted him, but when they set him everything in me was like defensive and yet a look at these guys gone. I can't get defensive because I've told them to do this and they talked about it and they're not doing it because they're mad at me they're doing it because they love me and they want to give me a gift and I don't see this, but everything in me is like that's not true. And yet when you look at one person says that you can maybe dismissive, but we have five or six you you have to go. This is true.

Oh my goodness. Okay, tell me what that looks like tell me how that comes out, and what a gift God gave us inference to do that is such a gift to protection can't like you said we can't see them but like proverb says the wounds of a friend can be trusted. I find that it is a wound that hurts painful and located like name it that it's a wound but it's from your friends and therefore trustworthy, and when you have friends that just flattering you write the kisses of an enemy you know by chapter that we should be aware of the people in my life and never have anything to say to us like that what we did the same thing because a lot of the guys Dave's friends, but I'm friends with their wives and so the guy survived this so we had been friends for probably eight years.

So we were asking are we at the point that we could do that with one another, and so we decided to do it because it's dangerous it could go left.

You know we had been friends long enough. I think that's important and we trusted and we loved each other through a lot of different things we decided as women that we would only offer one. It was really hard and it was difficult and it created some friction in our relationships. There is one woman that came in and we all had to agree together if somebody said I feel like this could be and no one else agreed with that. That wasn't something we'd even bring up so this one girl came in and it was only one person would say I don't know if you're aware of this but when were in a group together dominate the conversation and no one else can say anything and it was so hard she said are you telling me that I'm that person now. Kind of shook our heads, but she had no idea it wasn't true blind spot Medi-Cal so it created some friction and also some insecurity wandering to other people see this because my insecurity has been. I'm not a good friend and so I feel like I'm not graded initiating.

I'm not great at reaching out. I don't have a shepherd's heart that will continually reach out and see how they're doing and so then I'll feel like I don't deserve to be befriended by someone. Have you ever dealt with that he's ever pulled away because you're wondering if you invested enough time into the relationship for me was that it insecurity feeling like I don't know if I deserve to be befriended. I definitely have felt that way.

Some of it was in my early years as college and even being a young married woman. I did a lot of reaching and almost burnt out in my didn't have enough energy even for my husband and so that was kind of a point of contention. So I pulled back the other direction and started to feel insecure that if I didn't go above and beyond all the time that there can be mad at me. Something's going to be half so yeah definitely my habits before marriage.

In those early years made it really hard for me to try to figure out what is the balance there and I learned I really have to trust my friends let me know, and so some of those friendships. I verbalize that said, I struggle with what's appropriate and how you know what I should be giving in and seasons are some seasonally more to give another casino.

Sometimes we need our friends to pick up the slack and tenacity to do that for them and I passed family to just be faithful to let me know you talked about your friend who you were trying to teach or help for counsel and she just needed empathy between the situation in in your life when you were going through seasonal depression and you needed something other than just empathy. You need some people to under point up like we talk about your blind spots. Beast be a little bit interested, tell us about this is what was going on sheriff was it because of the miscarriages that you're dealing with the depression was actually a little bit after that and had a little bit to do with just the exposure that God had done in my life of my pride, he'd expose some spiritual pride in giving me a true godly grief of it that I mean I really grieved that in a beautiful way.

It was really refreshing and that's when I started to get opportunities to teach and speak and I was not interested as I thought.

While at I'm in fail at that some right enough and my husband really felt strongly that that was not right for me to do that. That was self protection for me and he really thought I got is bringing us opportunities and was encouraging me to them and it created a terror of personal moral failure in my own heart that I felt afraid that I was going to dishonor God with my own spiritual pride. So is very introspective, you know, and signing this the probably two-year funk of obsessing about my motives and just becoming really in my head all the time and I became very depressed by just the reality that I was always in a struggle with this and to some degree, and I did had a friend sit down with me and she knew it was a hard season for me and that thesis of what she shared with me was I know you're in high season.

Kelly bet you are so focused on your own problems right now that you don't even have the ability to see anybody else's.

And I know you're struggling but so am I and we had an interaction that again.

It was hurtful to her and I couldn't see it because my head was just so down in my own heart and mass and that was it really, really painful moment. I just I don't know how many other things have felt as uncomfortable as that and I took that night I sat in my closet for probably two hours and cried and talk to God about it and it was what I needed to get my head out of the fog of my own self obsession because what I couldn't see was in God convicting me of spiritual pride. I course corrected way too far into a different form of pride and just was becoming very self piteous and still self obsessed, but in a negative way and she really helped me see that and it was a big risk for her. I've talked to her about it after the fact that she knew how I felt that I wanted to sleep all the time because I felt so just defeated in my life that I really was struggling with some of those presenting symptoms of depression and yet here she was willing to say was on her heart to say, and it was like the lancing of a wound. That's the best that I felt was so painful.

But after that was it different.

I turned a corner.

It was what helped bring me out of that funk. So I'm imagining a listener who is thinking I'm observing something of a friend's life yeah Bob I was talking about this house was shot something that's one of those you to say something in there, you know there's some people were like I'm ready for that yet another to speak the truth was terminated, as I did that and then there are others who are like I could ever say anything like that because that could harm the relationship so Ephesians tells us speak the truth in love. Some people run the truth.

Some people run the love we gotta bring both of them to the table.

If somebody's feeling that I wonder if I need to say something.

What kind of counsel would you give them to play through to know do I say something.

How do I say when do I say it, what's the process you go through rather than just say that I need say so by calling right now probably a timeout to do a little evaluation before you have a conversation right me and I think there is a category in this conversation we have to have for overlooking offenses that the Bible does tell us it's godly to overlook an offense.

Usually when I know I need to say something that was when I don't want to be around them, or I'm tempted to be false that verse in Ephesians has therefore laying aside falsehood, speak the truth in love, and so when a friend comes at me and says here we okay and I were not because I'm actually secretly offended and I say oh it's fine.

I've embraced a level of falsehood and that friendship and maybe I'm doing it under the guise of love and overlooking offenses, but when I noticed that I'm starting to be fake with my friend why don't want to be around them. Then I know I need to say something because that conflict moment that's coming is actually way we fight for unity that because were sinners. Moroccan FN one another. We have to be willing to go to those moments and address them.

So when I know that's coming. I then start praying and I give myself probably depends on the nature of the situation, but I give myself probably week to just pray talk to God about it as the Council of my husband. Sometimes people who don't know that friend to her live somewhere else so you know and share confidentially and then asked her to put the locket of my own I the thing that I feel offended about and then got show me where that's happening in my own life because then I will become like Jesus says, and apparently put a lock out first so that you are able to pull the spec out actually humbles you and tenderizers your own heart that you could come into that conversation with an understanding that you're just as weak and needy as they are.

So then I'll set aside time to meet with that friend and ask for that meeting, which is usually when awkwardness ensues when you say can we meet without our kids or can I talk to about something.

Something's up here. I know some some answers I could we get together of us. You know what's coming here right exactly and it feels horrible and it's super uncomfortable. Nobody likes it. Maybe some people do, but I think most people and I talked to them they don't like it, they'd rather do what most of us do, which is slowly back away from the relationship and go build friendships somewhere else in the church in the community and just kind of that was weird and MoveOn and we then have fractured communities. I think because of that we don't have the depth of unity that we could haplessly be willing to go there you happy, willing to do that he let's have a conversation, let's talk and embrace that awkwardness and then remind them this is I love you because I value this friendship. I want to talk about something.

I don't want us to fall apart. I want us to have unity and peace between us and then to go there. The courage to do that is big because I've seen it so easy to do the opposite wishes go talk to Bob about Kelly right when I need to go talk to Kelly. No, not that I have a thing you know Sam, but in the church. It's almost accepted. It's almost even the put under the prayer request a renewed pray for Kelly. Really why all you donuts like only good. I'm just afraid to speak to a friend in love, truth, and yet when you do it.

That's when maturity happened to Roy and I think the counter that is making sure that we speak life into our friends to this we can see these great qualities in our friends and the people around us without ever saying I was out to lunch one day and on our girlfriends work together is probably a table of six.

We are talking about, you know, just kind of topics that were super lightweight as he went to brisket that jacket and who's doing your hair was so after a while. This is what I'm known for. I love to go a little deeper and son like hey let's go a little deeper and I was younger and my words were actually. Can we not talk about nothingness for a while but so offensive.

My friends are talking about nothing which they were so like why and so I wouldn't have said that the same way now that I think just to go a little deeper into speaking life into one another to know for our birthdays go around the table. Whoever's birthday is and we will just speak life of even victories of what we see our friends going through that year. Thank you country some really hard stuff.

But these are some of the character qualities I see that God is putting you. It's really helping to deal with what you're going through and I think that to countering the speaking the truth in love is so beneficial because it building one another up and I think if you do that actually builds the foundation in trust for when that moment might need to happen with a friend that that's not the only deep conversation you had a negative one that you've been encouraging one another in spring one another on and so that friend cannot trust you that your for them because you been for them verbally. So I agree you have to have that in your relationships, what can churches do to help promote and foster better friendships in the congregation programs are, work, we've got a figure out how we modeled this or how we facilitate this to happen organically in our churches really thought about the yeah I think part of what we can do is normalize these uncomfortable parts of friendship and remind people this is what it feels like to be friends with fellow sinners in real way when we really do like to get it feel like this and when we normalize that then when somebody is facing that they don't feel like something is broken and the friendship I'm broken or I've messed this up and this is wrong. We see this in the Bible we see Paul confronting Peter we see Jesus saying you go to your brother and confronting many sins against you, like there's categories for that.

It's normal and we can give stories when we have a platform to make that known. Our pastor just recently preached on friendship and was very vulnerable about when some of his friends had been faithful wonders in his life, and I think the whole congregation that can gives us. I got home okay like you face okay so I I can face that and expect that for my friendships and not be scared of it when it happens. Did your husband lead the congregation in singing friends are friends forever should do their Innova that I was getting ahead. I think it's so important a model in the church like your pastor did. It's like I don't remember growing up in the church and ever hearing our pastor. Talk about a friend. You know or or the vulnerability of being in week and needed a friend in his life. I remember we had a young high school kids stay at our house for 10 days and read at the close of his time with this. I said to him over dinner, say seven with the Wilson's for you know almost 2 weeks. What you learn.

It was very interesting. What he said he goes that's a lot different than my house. I go you know what way not know if that was good or bad. He said your buddies come over.

You have friends and they come over and they show up unannounced bill you here you go out and shoot baskets goes. I've never seen it with my dad.

He don't have any friends and I thought while it's a beautiful thing and I didn't even realize it was that central to my life that these guys are really soulmates that I will show up at their house so short, my house, and that that was uncommon when it should be common. That's what the church is very well at and maybe if a few more people read front dish that could help right. I mean imagine if our listeners got together with other people in the neighborhood in the church door. The kids go to school get together with the moms or dads there and go through Kelly's book together, there could be people you know who are lonely, who would be desperate for that kind of interaction than this is a great book to help you think through what the Bible has to say about friendships go to family life to the.com to order a copy of the book for dish by Kelly Needham. You can order it from us online@familylifeto.com or call 1-800-358-6329 that's one 800 F as in family L as in life among the word today again. The book is called for in dish by Kelly Needham order online@familylifetothe.com order by calling one 800 FL today.

Speaking of books, there's another book we'd like to give to you. Our friends at desiring God ministries are helping make this available John Piper has just written a brand-new book called coronavirus and Christ. We talked with him about this earlier this week and it was a great conversation. In fact, if you didn't get a chance to hear our conversation with John Piper. It's available online@familylifetodate.com. His new book is available in e-book format or as an audiobook for a free download. You can go to our website. Family life to day.com and download either the e-book or the audiobook for free. The print edition will be available in about a week and if you'd like to preorder that there's a link on our website for that as well. Again, the title of the book is coronavirus and Christ. I would just say this is an important book because we need to be thinking rightly about God and the gospel, the good news in the midst of our current situation we have friends and neighbors who have questions. This book will help equip all of us to be able to address those questions. It may answer questions you have about how a good God could remain good when there are thousands of people dying all around the world every day.

As a result of this pandemic.

So again, get your copy of the audiobook or the e-book coronavirus and Christ by John Piper.

The download is free for either of those resources go to family life to day.com to request your copy and a thanks to those of you who support the ongoing work of family life today you make it possible for us to make resources like this available to you and to hundreds of thousands of other people all around the world.

So we are grateful, especially in these times for those of you who are able to continue your financial support of this ministry. I hope you're being generous with your local church and generous with people who are challenged and if you can make a donation today to support this ministry, we would be great and we hope you can join us again tomorrow to talk more about friendships can talk about those friendships that can be draining people who are our need to handle those kinds of friendships Kelly Needham joins us again tomorrow.

We hope you can join us as well.

Think our engineer today. Keith Lynch along with our entire broadcast team on behalf of our hosts Dave and Wilson on Bob.

See you next time for another family life, family life to date is a production of family life of Little Rock, Arkansas. Accrue ministry help for today hope for tomorrow