How Could A Loving God Send an Evil Spirit to Torment Saul?

This is core Christianity, where answering your questions about the Christian life Monday through Friday. Your hosts are author and seminary professor Dr. Michael Horton and Pastor atrial Sanchez call right now with your question. At 1833.

The core that's 1-833-843-2673 and now here's atrial Sanchez hello and welcome to another episode of Christianity were we open the Scriptures together and answer your questions about the faith with Prof. Michael Horton I am Pastor atrial Sanchez last year. Pugh did a study on what Roman Catholics believe about communion, check this out transubstantiation. The idea that during the mass, the bread and wine used for communion become the body and blood of Jesus Christ is central to the Catholic faith.

Indeed, the Catholic Church teaches that the Eucharist is the source and summit of the Christian life, but a new pew research Center survey finds that most self-described Catholics don't believe this core teaching.

In fact, nearly 7 in 10 Catholics, 69% say they personally believe that during Catholic mass, the bread and wine used in communion are quote symbols of the body and blood of Jesus Christ just one third of US Catholics 31% said that they believe that during Catholic mass, bread and wine actually become the body and blood of Jesus. Pretty interesting and one of the things it debated throughout the history of the church.

The presence of Jesus in the Lord's supper and segue into our first question for the day and Instagram message that we received from Javier.

What does it mean that we should examine ourselves before communion. If I have unconfessed sin in my life. Should I not participate thinking about you know, this idea of what's happening in communion. The presence of the Lord with us there in this ordinance that Jesus instituted what how do we examine ourselves right will the place to go. There is first Corinthians 11 versus 17 to 34 and we all know this passage.

If we have been in church for a while were Paul calls us to examine ourselves before we eat of the bread and drink of the cup. That passage can be terrifying to us. We are weak kind of scrape around in our conscience and say, is there anything I'm forgetting to confess. Otherwise I'm eating and drinking judgment to myself.

So some people even don't dissipate because there they're afraid of that first thing we have to realize is that Paul is addressing a specific context. A particular problem in Corinth that many churches today would unfortunately have troubles with sometimes and that is unruly behavior in the church citizens and kind of sectarianism pulling the body apart and the apostle Paul is saying look, you have the body and blood of Christ shed for us, Christ is in heaven. His body is in heaven physically in heaven, so you don't have transubstantiation you don't have his body and blood on earth. He is at the right hand of the father and yet at the same time, the apostle says in the previous chapter, chapter 10 beginning at verse 15. He says the cop a blessing that we bless is it not a participation in the body of Christ.

So we are sharing in the body and blood of Christ, but that doesn't mean the body and blood of Christ are the bread and the wine.

It means that through the bread and the wine we participate in the body and blood of Christ. How can that happen. The Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is the one unites us to Christ right in the first place through faith, so when we come through that faith the Holy Spirit who gave us that faith uniting us to Christ uses the bread and the wine in the Lord's supper uses the the sacrament as a whole. Communion to signify and seal this union so that we grow more and more into this fellowship with Christ. I think sometimes we don't think of that were not just remembering and symbolizing here. This is an opportunity when ever we gather is the church as Paul says there for us to be made more and more one with Christ in the unity of fellowship and also more and more in unity and fellowship with our brothers and sisters sold because of the vertical aspect unity with the sun we have that horizontal aspect because I'm united to Christ as the head.

I'm also united simultaneously to the other members of his body what's happening in communion there in Corinth is that people are tearing the body apart every time they come to communion. They have one communion service for the you know the high people and one for the lower and it just becomes a mess. So Paul says actually suspend communion for a while until you get this really understand what the church is and what the unity of the church is because we share in one loaf. We are one body.

Answer if you don't understand that you don't understand what's going on in communion at all and instead you have divisions and rivalries that you need to understand what this sacrament is all about first so examine yourselves before you come to communion, then you may partake worthily. Paul isn't saying here not go in your closet, you know, looked under the bed, see if there any socks. Of course we confess our sins, but we know that there are sins that we aren't even aware of that, we've committed that's not what Paul is talking about here just about sinful behavior of the Corinthian church is so scandalous they need to to stop and reflect before they come to the Lord's supper, and that would be true in any church that is just filled with chaos and but remember, communion was not given to the strong but to the week it's given to us, not because we are perfect in our faith or repentance but because were not because we need to be strengthened by Christ by feeding on his body and blood. That's what Paul says there were doing by feeding on his body and blood, which is the promise the seal that we actually have the forgiveness of sins and are related to our head as well as to the rest of his body at such an important point Mike in a hobby or if you're coming to the Lord's table, and your senses I'm just totally unworthy and I failed this week I failed. Even this morning prior to coming the church. I thinned in some way. I just don't deserve this. When we realize that, you know, we come to the Lord repentant Lee we come.

Knowing that we need God's grace because we are weak. I think of the people that Paul has in mind. First Corinthians 1011 if you talking about these things or people who are just oblivious to theirs. They're not judging themselves. That's what he says there you know, if we judge ourselves would need to be judged by God. They don't realize that they're being sacrilegious, the other being sacrilegious and so we come to the Lord's table as broken sinners who do fail, every day, and thought, word, and indeed that's why we needed. That's exactly why we needed. So thank you for that question to our first call now.

Gary from Highland on are you wondering what she would tell someone that is homosexual in relationship to their Christianity experience or he's not the only one listening who has that question yeah okay well this is really a mean there there a lot of discussions going on right now Gary about this very question. Especially as serve our culture continues to shift and mean the whole LGBT movement is that has grown and is it's become more than the public spotlight. It's an issue that the church more and more is addressing what is not new to us. When you think about the fact that the Bible describes homosexuality both in the Old Testament and the New Testament in places like Romans and in first Corinthians, you know, this was something that the apostles were aware of and that they had to deal with that. In fact Paul himself when he is writing the Corinthians is some of you were prior to your faith in Christ, homosexuals, the me were living in open sin, men with men as he says in Romans chapter 1 minute when a normal relationship in the Greco-Roman world.

That's right.

So I think one thing to begin with. This is, we consider this subject and particulars is to realize this isn't new. This is something that the churches had to deal with before and that the apostles themselves were confronted with. I would one approach to couple with a I think it depends on who I'm talking to him talking to someone who saying I am a homosexual. I am out I'm gay. That's just who I am out and I'm also a Christian, I would want to challenge them there because of that I would want to say will actually know. I think that the Bible teaches that you can't be gay and Christian right is using homosexual that is right I'm in the same way that you couldn't be a a murderous Christian why McCready Christian that's my identity, no unfallen enforcement. This is no such were some of you used to be this way, but you were washed, you were sanctified, you were you were rescued by the Lord Jesus Christ know that doesn't mean that there aren't people who really wrestle with things like same-sex attraction for greed or greed.

That's right, and who are true believers who wrestle with is that they realize that this is an issue of sin that the Scriptures very clear on this and that is something other than a battle with probably for their whole life. But they haven't given into it and I think that's where we have to stand as believers with the clear teaching of Scripture and let me tell you a story where I met in San Diego and in Southern California there are many churches that have basically any compromise on this issue in your pastors who who themselves. They openly gay and I'm a pastor or a pastor churches the bills they are LGBT Q affirming an inclusive and I had a discussion one day with one of these pastors in my neighborhood and I asked him a question very specifically said if you as a pastor came across someone in your church you felt like they were they were sinning, how would you confront them because I said do you think, and I asked him to think that me as as a Christian who believes that homosexuality is a sin to think that I can love gay and lesbian people and his response wasn't no, I don't think you can, because I don't think if you if you say that they're knocking to feel loved and so I don't think it's possible for you to love them and disagree with them on that and if so how do you as a pastor with people in your church.

If somebody is doing something that you think okay that's you should be doing that is harming other people that's wrong or that's some sort of sexual practice that I would disagree with. How do you challenge them lovingly how you confront them and he shut the conversation down. He said were for what he said. Your question offends me in this conversation is over and I thought well you know, no answer there, but the reality is we confused, loving people with affirming them in everything they do. You can love someone well without agreeing with everything that they're doing. I think that's part of what God calls us to do as believers is not just with this issue. With so many issues and that's the word of God does for us as well write God's word comes to us from the outside and it challenges us in the law of God.

It puts to death that shows us our sin and it drives us to the gospel to Jesus and we can hold onto our sins that we say Lord. This is a sin, I need your grace. I need your forgiveness and for people who struggle with same-sex attraction and they confess that a man the doors are open and we as the church need to be able to say come as a sinner and receive the grace of Christ because it's for you just like it's for me, this is Bobby for an issue that the church is discussing more and more these days and it's important for us to be rude in the Scriptures to I think boldly affirm what the Bible teaches, while lovingly pursuing and caring for those who do struggle with same-sex attraction and are saying I want the grace of Jesus. Absolutely we have a resource at court, Christianity.com titled 10 things you need to know about the Bible and homosexuality and Gary would love to give you that. Just go to the website and pull it down for free. Thank you for your question.

Your cynical Christianity were answering your questions about the faith. Give us a call if you have a question at 1-833-843-2673. That's 1833.

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Again, that number is 1-833-843-2673. Give us a call to get a hold of that resource sin yes and emailed out for Samuel 1810, which says the next day an evil spirit sent from God came powerfully on Saul and he began to rave inside the palace, David was playing the lyre. As usual, but Saul was holding a spear. What does it mean that an evil spirit from God was sent and why.

While Cindy, this is really tough. One is that I've wrestled with it. How can God send an evil spirit to Saul and if he did, how can Saul be blamed for his hatred and violence toward David.

Well here are the verses was put in context, and the women saying to one another as they celebrated Saul is struck down his thousands, and David his 10,000s. And Saul was very angry and assaying displeased him. He said they've ascribed to David 10,000s and to me they've ascribed thousands and what more can he have, but the kingdom and Saul I David from that day on next day a harmful spirit from God, rushed upon Saul and he rave within his house while David was playing the lyre and so forth that I will pin David to the wall, but David evaded him and so forth. Now first the Hebrew of verse 10 reads the spirit of God came upon Saul distressing date so we even say the Holy Spirit is intended here rule could mean spirit or the Holy Spirit. The ESV translates a harmful spirit from God, rushed upon Saul. I don't think you have to say it's a harmful spirit again based on the Hebrew us spirit came from God or the spirit came from God distressing Saul. In any case, it's a spirit from God. Whether it's the Holy Spirit, or an angel came from God. Now, it can't be a demon because although God is sovereign over all, including demons. He doesn't send demons on missions but the father does send his Holy Spirit on missions to bring judgment, but remember the Tower of Babel.

When the spirit of God descended in judgment and scattered the nations and divided the languages. This is the important point. Whether it's the Holy Spirit, or a spirit from God.

Saul had already set his face against David when he heard the women singing Saul has struck down his thousands, but David is 10,000s from that moment on, were told. Saul became David's jealous enemy. So were not talking about Saul is a good guy, who then suddenly has an evil demon sent to them from God to turn them against David rather it is a spirit or as I'm inclined to take it. The Holy Spirit sent from God in judgment to torment Saul and that's why verse 10 would you quote Cindy says, but David was playing the lyre.

As usual, but Saul was holding a spear. David was soothing the king with his lyre playing his music while Saul was holding a spear. Saul was already violent and so the Holy Spirit or a spirit from God was sent to torment them to judge him, cause him to go mad. Thank you for that question, Cindy.

Let's go call now that we received about Colossians chapter 1 in a drill balance will my question is 121 through 23. It really what you are alienating God any linear mind because of your evil behavior, but now he has reconciled you back right body holy. Without accusation 2388 are established, and do not hold held out. I will make sense of the Lord is saying that all of us here are a that abandonment. Thank you thank you yeah really good question and I remember years ago hearing a pastor say you can never lose your salvation but you can walk away from it and mean. He appealed the text like this and you look at that little word if in verse 23 you think okay boy, will that test place a lot on TV individually I'm reconciled. But maybe I'm not.

Maybe you know God save me and in the end, to be in big trouble and so is important that we understand this this passage, one I say in a part of the key is verse 22 he has now reconciled us how by the body of Jesus Christ. That word reconciles passive. This is something God has done. He has accomplished. You are reconciled because of what God has done for you in Jesus Christ. That's what Paul says will then you verse 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast that the word if here is a conditional marker. It could suggest a hypothetical note. Maybe, maybe not. Or something.

That's a reality actually in the Greek New Testament, there are different kinds of conditional markers to be possible.

Some have said to translate verse 23 us since or because this was called in the Greek Lane which a first class condition. Usually what that means is that the writer is assuming that this is true for the sake of the argument, I think translating it is as since would be a little too much but but the idea here is that Paul is assuming that this is true for the sake of the argument that actually because they have been reconciled. They are getting continue steadfast in the faith, and so there's this connection here between.

I think what God has done in the perseverance of the believer that those who are truly reconciled. Those who belong to Jesus Christ by faith organ to continue in the faith. Steadfast are going to cling to the gospel is what I don't think that Paul here means to suggest hey, maybe not.

I'm doubtful about you guys, I think actually what he's doing the tying together this the relationship between our our reconciliation effect were justified saved by God, and the fact that that does produce a life of faith and a life of walking with the Lord.

And so a little bit technical. There, but it's important for us to understand. Otherwise, I think we come to the conclusion that don't know maybe maybe Paul is mean to suggest something else here. Sure. And, you know, of course, if people don't continue in the faith they do walk away from Christ. Then they were never regenerated in the first place. They were there were never born again. Then they are reconciled to God.

But you have no reason Allen to think that you aren't reconciled to God. If you trust in his saving work.

Amen.

Cynical Christianity and were in the Scriptures together with Prof. Michael Horton nine pastor atrial Sanchez. If you have a question about the Bible. It's been troubling you are something you want to go little bit deeper and give us a call. The number is 1-833-843-2673.

That's 1833 the core or email us your question at questions at core, Christianity.com Brad asked us on Facebook where does the Bible teach church membership such an important question, especially today.

First, we have clear and explicit evidence in the New Testament Brad that there were membership rolls there even lists within lists like the list of widows that Paul talks about in first Timothy chapter 5 verse nine or E. Think of Hebrews 1317 obey your leaders, for they will give an account for your soul. How do you give an account unless you know who your members are qualifications for elders who look after the spiritual needs of the congregation are also given in the Pauline letters, so we have all kinds of evidence that the apostles and pastors new who their members were.

Second, if we have inferential evidence for many other passages like first Corinthians the whole epistle is a disciplinary letter it sent to the church of Corinth and they're expected to single out particular people he has in mind in the church for discipline. If you don't have membership in the church.

You really don't have built people haven't stood up before the congregation and made promises to subject themselves to the teaching and preaching and doctrine and discipline of the church, then really you don't have any basis for admonishing or rebuking, or even barring somebody from the Lord's supper.

How do you know who's taking the Lord's supper when they shouldn't be, or not taking it when they should, so we can't have Christ as our head without being also united simultaneously to his body. Each local church is a particular expression of that body. We we confess Christ publicly not just privately.

This is not just me and my personal relationship with Jesus. This is a shared life together with Christ and his body and we have to subject ourselves to each other, especially to those who have official oversight. I I am in submission to my elders at my church. They asked me sometimes tough difficult questions because they want to know that I'm growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. They want to know that I'm shepherding my family just as they asked my wife and in the kids so it's a it's a shepherding that's going on and if you're not accountable to Christ body then you're not accountable to Christ. Our relationship with Christ is always personal but never private. Thanks for listening to court Christianity to request your copy of today's special offer. Visit us at court, Christianity.com and click on offers in the menu for or call us at 1-833-843-2673 that's a 33, the court when you contact us. Please let us know how you been encouraged by this podcast and be sure to join us next time. As we explore the truth of God's word together