Can I Pastor a Church Without Being Ordained?

I pastor a church without being formally ordained best is one of the questions will be answering on today's addition of core Christianity hi this is Bill Meyer along with Pastor Israel Sanchez and this is the radio program where we answer your questions about the Bible and the Christian life every day. You can call us right now with your question. At 833. The core our phone lines will be open for the next 25 minutes or so and we would love to hear from you that number again 1-833-843-2673, as always, you can post your question on one of our social media sites Facebook, Instagram or twitter. You can actually watch us live and see Pastor Israel do his thing in the studio on YouTube and you can email us a question at questions@corechristianity.com first up today let's go to a voicemail that we received yesterday the word everlasting and specially with regard to the Israelites, keeping certain everlasting ordinances are used yet under the forever and everlasting ordinances spoken to them, even though believing I am I can see where this could be confusing and why, especially many in the messianic Jews still choose to keep these forever and everlasting ordinances. Thank you Bill, thank you for that question and I'm not sure which ordinances specifically referring to, but I do know that places different place in the Old Testament. Circumcision is referred to as an everlasting covenant if you will. I believe it's in Genesis chapter 17. Same with the Sabbath in the book of Exodus and so some people could read that and think look this is this is everlasting, were bound to this, the church should continue to observe the Saturday Sabbath. For example, and there have been people who take that position that the word everlasting amid a lot of times in the Old Testament does mean for eternity. That kind of a thing, or it can also just refer to a very long period of time. A long duration of time and it's very clear to me when we get to the New Testament that specially things like like circumcision.

For example, that those were set aside that they were associated with the worship of God for a particular time and method of marking that the covenant people of God under the old covenant, but that for believers in Jesus Christ that we don't have to do those kind of things. It is a religious ritual to make us right with God or a part of the covenant family and that's exactly what you see all over the place in the New Testament in acts chapter 15 for example, you have the Jerusalem Council with the disciples the possible come together and then they say that very clearly the entire book of Galatians makes this point. So the question is what will then in what sense were these everlasting or enduring. I wonder if there there isn't a spiritual reality that they pointed to that. That is real for us today.

So for example in the book of Colossians in Colossians chapter 2 verse 11. The apostle Paul said in Jesus. Also, you were circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God is a lot of these these ordinances. These rituals that you see in the Old Testament, they have these the spiritual realities that they were pointing to that are fulfilled in Jesus Christ and we are in Christ we have the reality that so we don't go back to that the types and shadows. The signs and Paul actually just a little bit later and in Colossians chapter 2 makes this point. Again, he says. Therefore, verse 16. Let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink her with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come with the substance belongs to Christ. And so I got the best way to parse that question. I'd appreciate it. It's a very good question and thanks for giving us a call know there's a bigger issue that we often talk about her on this program regarding Old Testament laws and something that we refer to her. Paul referred to as the Judaizers. Those individuals who want to return to the Old Testament laws and believe that somehow that is part of the be earning their salvation are getting a gold star from God. How would you respond to that. I would say read the book of Galatians because it really a me that's that's the focus in the book of Galatians is there. There were these agitators that were creeping into the church trying to get Christians to Judaize if you will to basically accept and embrace the law of Moses for their justification for their salvation. And Paul says don't do that you're muddying the waters of the gospel. If you you're actually preaching a false gospel gospel which is no gospel at all.

If you're if you're calling people to observe the law of Moses so that they might be justified in your you're really leading them astray answer the Bible speaks so clearly to this and I think in books like the book of Galatians we see that we actually have a wonderful core question on this topic. If you go to our website.

Core, Christianity.com/questions.

It's called the difference between the law and the gospel would encourage you to read that will later. Let's go to a Facebook live question we received from Julie.

She says, is the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth, literal or is this the church age hi Julie didn't into us some deep eschatology hear the word eschatology is sort of fancy word that we sometimes used to talk about the study of the last things the end times and so your you're referring to a passage in the book of Revelation.

Revelation chapter 20 then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding his hand. The key to the bottomless pit and a great chain and he sees the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years and threw them into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while now there are some who are of the opinion of the belief that that thousand year reign with the binding of Satan is something that could happen in the future. There's going to be a little literal reign of Christ on earth for a thousand years. While Satan is bound. There are others who are of the opinion that this is actually that the thousand years is a symbol for the entire church age, and that right now, primarily through the work of Jesus Christ would eat what he accomplished on the cross, Satan has been bound. And of course Jesus uses that kind of language in the Gospels, where he talks about binding the strongman so that now the gospel can go out to the nations is really interesting because there in Revelation chapter 20 there's there's a purpose clause. This binding is so that he may not deceive the nations any longer. That is now the nations are flocking into the church through the gospel and so so that that view understands that the thousand year reign to refer to the church age that I actually am sympathetic to Debbie that's that's my view personally and and I think one of the reasons I hold to that view.

One of the city. We have to remember we were looking at books like the book of Revelation is that oftentimes numbers are used symbolically you think of that the seven spirits of God that are described earlier in the book of Revelation that even the number 666 the number of man in Revelation of Luke chapter 14 right you have oftentimes in apocalyptic literature symbols just rich and in symbolic imagery. I think that's one of the things that we have here on the obvious is not something that that Christians need to divide over it's not at the core of Christianity. If you will, the core of the gospel, but important things.

Nonetheless, let me just plug if if you want RR Revelation Bible study that we recently published a great resource, written by Prof. I had while I was in seminary, Dennis Johnson and I you can get a hold of that resource on our website. Core, Christianity.com. Just go to core Christianity.com/Revelation to get your hands on that great Bible study on this very confusing book. I mean at times. We have a lot of Christians who call us and ask us about some of the symbolism of the metaphors that you see in Revelation, so get your hands on that by going to core Christianity.com/Revelation will our phone lines are open right now. If you have a question for Pastor Israel about the Bible or the Christian life. We would love to hear from you can call us for the next 15 minutes or so, here's the number it's 833 the core that's 1-833-843-2673.

Give us a call right now.

Let's go to a voicemail that we received earlier this week will and the mountain had an error. What biblical backing hi and whether or not and it was returned but is very timeframe on the top. Thank you very much.

I'm really sorry to to hear about this. The situation, it's a very minute, what one it's is heartbreaking that the pain that comes to the church and comes to families through something like this and as I'm sorry I'm sorry to hear about a brother.

First, I would say to me immediately. When would something like this comes out that the pastor needs to be removed from his position in Paul in first Timothy three and Titus chapter 1 gives real clear qualifications for pastors for elders. One of those qualifications, as is being above reproach being the husband of one wife, you know, and so we have a situation like this is very clear that this individual is not qualified to do ministry to lead the church in any official capacity, and so they need to be removed from from office from from the position that therein. Now the question about restoration and and a timeline.

I think frankly so often in the church we care on restoring to quickly, usually in a something like this come out. People say all man we need to be gracious that we need to show mercy that kind of a thing, and there is grace and mercy for repentant sinners, but just because we extend grace and mercy doesn't mean a person should be reinstituted into into that position for that office. Certainly not anytime anytime soon. The apostle Paul in the book of Galatians and he says in Galatians chapter 6 if anyone is caught in any trespass in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore such a one in the spirit of gentleness in their weekly talks about restoring them. I don't think is he saying you know if a pastor falls they should be restored to their office.

You know once they come forward and repent know he's talking specifically about just being restored to to fellowship to that sense of communion. Grace with Jesus. If there is a restoration to office down the line. It should be something that that that happens when there's been enough time for there to be healing for for there to be healing with the family in particular the pastor's family but but also that the other family involved healing for the church. I know that when stuff like this happens the church is just wounded hurt and betrayed feels betrayed and those those feelings last a long time as he imagines appeals for me getting back into a position of leadership with those feelings � is it just not a good situation and so a lot of time would need to go by there needs to be healing and the restoration should happen in the context of the church in the church saying we think that this is a good thing and and I know from X experience of seeing this in in church before the that when that does happen, it does take a long time as I got out of the it's helpful to say I you know it you know it takes five years or take seven years. That kind of a thing it really you can't put a number on it but but definitely we need we need to make sure that were protecting the church and that the people that were putting in front to to lead into preaching to teach our people who are qualified to be there. Good counsel.

You're listening to core Christianity with Pastor Israel Sanchez.

How does God want us to worship him, and how does the Bible define worship we actually have a free core guide for you.

The answers those questions. Yes, Bill, you know, usually I'm the one who gets to answer questions from our audience, but I want to pose a question to our listeners what comes to your mind when you think about worship is it a church's music is it you know the kinds of programs that they have really important questions for us to know what is the essence of the church was the essence of worship. And that's what want to get you this free resource nine things you should know about worship is a resource that helps to clarify what the Bible says about worship what it is what it isn't, and why the world of worship in Scripture is more magnificent. Christians often imagine, and so get older this resource we want to get in your hands free. You can go to core Christianity.com/offers to find it. Once again it's called nine things you should know about worship.

You can also call us for that resource or any one of our resources at 833-843-2673. Can the numbers 833, the court will. Here's a voicemail we received from one of our listeners named Rusty formal ordination required or someone who feels called into the ministry to pastor or plant churches either locally or globally. Thank you Iris a love that that question such an important question. I think ordination is a really important thing. I think it's described in various places of the New Testament, even in the Old Testament you think of the ordination of the priests mean they didn't call themselves to that particular officer called by God and they would go through this process of of ordination and they needed to be ebbed in particular need test with pastors and elders and church planters in a people to go to church planting. They need to be qualified and we get those qualifications in first Timothy three and Titus chapter 1, Paul told Timothy and he talked to Timothy about when that when the elders laid their hands on him the gift of God he received. First Timothy chapter 4 I used sort of a picture of ordination there in acts chapter 6, you have what what I believe is a description of the ordination of of a group of deacons into the Bible.

Values ordination and select one of the reasons I think that we should as well.

Now there are four things that I often point to Wynwood somebody is interested in pursuing ministry is to be there for things that you have to have one, you need to be called okay. First Timothy chapter 3 verse one is as anyone desires the office of an overseer, the desire of a good thing. There's a sort of internal calling. This desired the sense that you have, individually, I want to serve the church in this capacity, but that's not enough. It's not just an internal calling an internal desire to preach and teach. You also have to be called externally by the church. The church should be able to see you the gifts that you have. The way in which the Lord has used you because you're part of the church and the church is also calling you this, we don't. You don't call your self to the ministry.

Nobody calls them self to the ministry.

They have this desire. This internal desire and the church calls them is a calling is important, but you need to have the church that's doing the calling and ultimately God calls people through the church character that's everything calling character. First Timothy three Titus one when he talks about those qualifications at the heart of these qualifications is this person is a person of character their above reproach. They should be up there preaching and teaching because they they lead by example there an example for the flock that's I mean that's keep most of what you have been in the qualifications are matters of character. Number three competency another another thing that you have in that that description of qualifications is are they able to teach. Can they teach God's word and within that, I think, do they know theology do they understand how theology works can they rightly divide the word of truth as their opening up the Scriptures is again what you see in second Timothy chapter 2 verse 15.

You know we want to study to show ourselves approved workmen who can rightly divide the word of truth.

Too often we focus on competency and giftedness within the church and and that's what we value at the expense of these other things character and and maybe even the church coming in and saying you're called to this give an individual who wants to do it.

He's gifted so they just put on a pedestal and and in the end, often times that can be very disastrous and the last thing I'll say is compatibility with the particular church. If you're if you're called to ministry your serving, leading, and in a particular place. Is there compatibility.

I would say that that was not as sort of the same level as the other ones, but I think it's also very important and so we we really need to recover.

I think a robust understanding of what it looks like that to be called into ministry. We don't call ourselves and also to be qualified and so ordination is a part of that process and I think it's important. Thanks for your question from great answer on that one. I'm sure there are lots of people who feel felt called to ministry and wonder about the proper procedure and submit you spell that out. This is core Christianity with pastor Averill Sanchez. Here's the number.

If you have a question it's 833. The core that's 1-833-843-2673 let's go to Jerry in Fort Wayne, Indiana jury what your question for pastor. Israel, I had question the right hand of the father and I was wondering at the end will do all there be to yeah, well, well, Orthodox Christianity, what we believe in and what Christians have believed and preached for 2000 years based on the teaching of the Bible is that God is one in three persons. The father the son and the Holy Spirit and those persons are distinct and Jesus while he was on earth prayed to the father. The father sent the son into the world to accomplish redemption by the grace of the Holy Spirit and through the eternal Spirit Jesus offered himself up and so we don't we don't confound or confuse the persons of the holy Trinity. And so when when Scripture talks about Jesus being seated at the right hand of the father, it's his position of authority. It's his position of power. But Jesus, the eternal son of God, the eternal word of the father is not the father is at the father's right hand. So there's one God, eternally existing in three persons. The father the son and the Holy Spirit.

And that's the orthodox doctrine of the Trinity is so as we would say that there are two gods I would say that there's one God father son and Holy Spirit and and in heaven.

We are going to worship the holy Trinity. Thanks for your question Jerry go to Windy from Wellington, Kansas, Wendy, what's your question for pastor. Israel currently attending a church that observed the Lord shot that each and every Sunday morning open to visitors.

We came from a church where they only get that a couple of times a year on a Sunday. Eat was close to just members.

I would like to know what your thoughts are on those differences. Yeah, this is the question of open versus closed communion and so my position is when when were observing the Lord's supper me think about what the apostle Paul said in the book 1st printing. To me this is this is serious stuff. We should examine ourselves as we come to the table to the Lord's supper should not be administered in a way which is sort of willy-nilly, and it does matter what you believe.

Whether or not you been baptized. If you just kind of feel like you want to come up and participate in this kind of thing. Go ahead. No, that's wrong. I think that minimizes what's taking place. If it's against. I would say what God's word says, but more broadly you know there's a question of what about for Christians were visiting our church and who aren't a member of our particular church and what I say when I administer the Lord's supper every week as I say this the meal for Christians. For those who have been baptized in the name of the father and of the signing of the Holy Spirit.

For those who believe the gospel who confess the truth of the Christian faith, trust in Jesus Christ.

If that's you that this is a meal for you when we come in faith as were called to come in and again the passages to look at or what Paul note says in first Corinthians chapters 10 and 11 so that that's my position. I don't think that you know a person needs to necessarily be a member of my particular church to be able to observe the Lord's supper will participate in the Lord's supper in our congregation but they do need to be a Christian. They need to be a believer.

They need to be baptized and churches adjuster to open it up and it's a sort of fully open communion.

There's no there's no question about that. You know if whatever you want.

Whatever you believe, if you want to do this go-ahead.

I think that's wrong.

That's not biblical things for your question, Wendy, thanks much Wendy for being a regular listener. This is core Christianity with pastor Averill Sanchez is an email we received from listening Mike and Mike's is this I had a pastor say we shouldn't label ourselves as sinners but as saints. What are your thoughts on this matter we fight. Both were were saints and sinners. You know, the apostle Paul, after his conversion could still refer to himself as the chief of sinners, Martin Luther, he had this this wonderful phrase he said you know, at the same time just and sinners because we been justified not on the basis of our righteousness, not on the basis of our good works on the basis of the fact that the righteousness of Jesus Christ is been imputed to us that is credited to us by faith.

And yet we still battle with sin so positionally were were saints, and this is why the apostle Paul. For example, when he's writing to the Corinthians, a church with a lot of struggles, a church with a lot of sin could refer to them as holy ones as saints as sanctified in one sense is because of their position in Jesus Christ were saints through Jesus and yet at the same time, we still struggle with sin day by day were were seeking to put to death the sinful deeds of the body by the grace of the Holy Spirit as Paul talks about in Romans chapter 8 were no longer identified with our sin, even though we sin, which is to say, you know like I I don't think that we should say all you know I'm a I'm a Christian drunkard that kind of the thing will well meet up the new test is very clear. You can't be here just not up you're not a Christian. If you're saying I'm a believer, but I also love and engage in and practice this thing. There's a there's a huge contradiction.

There we are believers justified still struggle with sin and that since were were sinners and so I think it's okay to the talking that way. I think the New Testament talks in that way, but the most important thing about you if if you trust in Jesus Christ as your identity in him. The new life that you have you been Sized into Christ Jesus. Now we present ourselves to God as those who are alive from the dead, and what a wonderful thing that is we are alive thanks for listening to core Christianity request your copy of today's special offer. Visit us at core, Christianity.com and click on offers in the menu or call us at 1-833-843-2673. That's 833 when you contact us.

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