Can Women Counsel Men in the Church?

Should women serve as biblical counselors and counsel men in the church that is one of the questions will be answering on today's addition of core Christianity hi this is Bill Meyer along with Pastor Israel Sanchez and this is the radio program where we answer your questions about the Bible and the Christian life every day. We would love to hear from you. Our phone lines are open right now for the next 25 minutes or so. So if you have a question, pick up your phone and give us a call. Here's the number it's 833. The core that's 1-833-843-2673 also post your question on our Facebook, Instagram or twitter account. You can watch us on YouTube right now and you can email us with your question at questions at core, Christianity.com or yesterday. Gabriel responded to a question about the ordination of women as pastors and today we have a follow-up question from one of our listeners. This is Jacob in North Carolina. We tested where we see a lot of that will work God. The Bible agree that it should be preaching what we wanted to do what we do. Hey Jacob, thank you for giving us a call and for following up on on the question that we receive yesterday and they were talking about here. What is it mean to be a biblically structured church.

And when when I read the New Testament, it seems to me like when the disciples of the apostles established churches they they made sure that they were churches that were governed by a plurality of male elders where there were deacons who were serving in the church as well by helping to meet the faith. The physical needs of the congregation and a lot of churches today just don't have that kind of structure, and I think it's it's a shame. I think this is a structure that we see in the New Testament, and I think there's there's good reason for that. Paul in his letter to Titus, he said, in and out Titus chapter 1 verse five. This is why I left you in Crete so that you might put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you. If anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination. He goes on to list the qualifications for an elder this is a part of what what we sometimes referred to as the pastoral epistles first Timothy second Timothy the book of Titus and throughout these letters, you have a lot of instruction about the household of God, the way in which it's supposed to be structured.

First Timothy three as well. Talks about elders, the ordination of elders and what the qualifications for elders were in second Timothy chapter 2 verse two Paul said what you have learned from me in the presence of many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. But it sounds to me like the problem that you're experiencing is that there are a lot of faithful men in your church or desire to serve in this capacity. At least the Bible says, and in first Timothy that if anyone desires the. The office of an overseer they desire a good thing this is something that should be pursued and and we need churches need good elders, but if there's no one in your church is stepping up well it sounds to me like there's there's a significant problem. There may be a deeper issue related to that, the spiritual health of the men in the church and and so I think that's an issue church structure. Jacob doesn't determine whether or not hundred percent is not the only thing that determines is but it's not defining what it means to be a true church of the big question is the gospel being preached faithfully as the word of God being preached faithfully in my church there can be churches that don't have good biblical structured still preach the gospel and that means that the spirit of God is still a work in and through those churches, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't strive to be more biblically faithful and biblically structured as I would say pray for change. Pray that the Lord really laid on.the hearts of the men in your church to step up and to the you know, take take hold of the responsibility that God has given to them and be the change of a brother. It sounds to me like this is something that you might be passionate about and and maybe that's that's indicative of the fact that the Lord is working in your own heart may be calling you to something like serving as an elder is someone who might teach and preach the word of God that Dino don't don't discount that. And dad if if you're not able to stay and to pray and to pursue change, then consider. I think finding a but more biblically structured church that is faithful to proclaim the gospel and is ordered and the way that we see the churches in the New Testament ordered and so really about. Appreciate your question, I'm sorry to hear you know about that. The situation, your church, in particular, it seems like that the men are not stepping up. I could tell that this is something that that upsets you and and I pray brother that the Lord would be at work in your life and in in your church as well meant, so thank you for giving us a call.

May the Lord bless you and Jacob. If it turns out that you are going to start looking for a different church. We have a great core question on that topic. It's called how do I choose a church you can find that by going to core Christianity.com/questions against: how to why choose a church. Your listing the core Christianity with pastor Israel Sanchez. Here's the phone number to call if you have a question about the Bible or the Christian life. It's 833-843-2673. You might want to make a note of that if you spell it on your phone.

It's 833. The core gives a call right now with your question will be ever phone lines open for the next 20 minutes or so, let's go to Elias in Hempstead, New York alas what your question for pastor. Israel Meyer stressor church according to the Bible is Jesus Christ or Satan the devil hold the bright and morning star short and to the point.

Appreciate your your question Elias, the language of MorningStar wheat we find in different places in the Scriptures we find it in the Old Testament, and I think you know in terms of an is is referring to Satan.

The passage that you might be thinking about is Isaiah chapter 14 verse 12 how you are fallen from heaven, O DayStar son of the Dawn, how you are cut down for cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low you said in your heart, I will ascend to heaven above the stars of God. I will set my throne on high will sit on the mount of assembly in the far reaches of the north.

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will make myself like the most high, you are brought down to shale to the far reaches of the pit and soak in.

In antiquity that the DayStar, the MorningStar referred probably to the planet Venus in of the brightest, the brightest star of the morning is sorta heralded that the coming of the day it was preeminent.

It was prominent in the reason that that word or that title is used here in Isaiah 14, probably in reference to the quote one the hottie king of of Babylon, but also to the evil one to Satan, in particular an end to his fall is because he had this position of prominence and so it's just a figure of speech that can be used. Actually, both of the evil one because he had this prominent position prior to his fall, but also, and in other ways. For example, in second Peter chapter 1 verse 19 it talks about believers having the sure prepack prophetic word that the MorningStar Jesus in the book of Revelation talks about giving the MorningStar to his people to his children who were faithful to him. Revelation chapter 2 verse 27 it says and he will rule them with a rod of iron is when earthen pots are broken in pieces, even as I myself if you have received authority from my father and I will give him the MorningStar you as an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches and again you see this language the very end of the book of Revelation. Revelation chapter 22 verse six and he said to me, these words are trustworthy and true. And the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophet sent his angel to show these things. The things that much exceeding the things that must take place and so you use it you see this language used for the position of prominence and that's that's why it's used in reference to Jesus and also in reference to Satan in the Old Testament. Prior to his fall. Elias is that clear it up for you and Madeleine.

Monday was Mother's Day in Mexico. Oh yes yeah will happy Mother's Day.

Thank you, April 9. It was my birthday was 73 years old a happy birthday thanks are given us a call again brother love thanks much less percent you being one of our regular listeners. Always nice to hear from him. This is core Christianity with pastor Israel Sanchez, we do receive voicemails on a regular basis and you can leave us a voicemail 24 hours a day by calling 833 the core. Here's one that came in from one of our listeners named Dolores for creating our ready for any lien. Actually, I know we had showed my godly gain by guiding pretesting laid the foundation of the world, and it also said that if you believe and confess with your mouth that you Lord Bell 25 radiation to someone who struggles with how they calling side with each other thinking appreciate this question. I don't I don't know that there is a real simple explanation were talking about the sovereignty of God and the responsibility of mankind. You see these two things brought together frequently in in the Scriptures.

First, as you said, it really is important for us to understand that God is absolutely sovereign, that he's completely in control and that, ultimately, none of us would ever believe in or receive Christ were not for the work of the Holy Spirit and that God has from before the foundation of the world chosen people. This is what the apostle Paul says very clearly in Ephesians chapter 1, and yet at the same time. When we look at the at the testimony of Scripture. We know that God calls commands all people everywhere to repent, to believe that the free offer of the gospel is real.

It sincerely goes out to the whole world that were called to preach the gospel to all nations.

You know that were not called to say okay who's the who what we know who are the elect and how can I try to figure out who that is him to preach the gospel to them.

That's that's not all were called to do were called to preach the gospel promiscuously and to trust that God is going to gathering his elect by the work of the Holy Spirit. So you have these two realities hand-in-hand were were responsible for the decisions we make.

We are called to believe, to exercise faith and yet even that faith that we that we have is a gift that's given to us by the Lord night I think of what Paul told the Thessalonians in second Thessalonians chapter 2 he's talking about God's coming judgment on those who reject the gospel on those who don't receive Jesus Christ and it says towards the end of the section were talking about judgment in second. The following chapter 2 verse 11. Therefore, God sends them a strong delusion so that they may believe what is false in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness and that which is what they wanted, they had pleasure in unrighteousness, but that wasn't what Paul goes on to say in verse 13, but we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers, beloved of the Lord, because God shows you as the first fruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth did this he called you through our gospel so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ and so sister and again this is a complex issue.

We know that mankind is responsible and that God is sovereign. There's no contradiction there and we want to be faithful to what we see in the Scriptures are really receipt we see both very clearly the sovereignty of God and the responsibility of mankind that the trick is not watering down either of those not twisting the Scriptures to do away with one or the other. There are some people that want to take away human responsibility and say you know it's a sort of fatalistic existence that we have, God is the author of evil that kind of thing and there other people who want to do away with the sovereignty of God, as he notes really up to me it's my choice. It's my decision.

I'm just pulling myself up by the by the brute bootstraps in order to be saved and both of those are wrong, God is actually sovereign and yet we are totally responsible and those of the that the things that those two truths are held together in script we have to hold fast to them as well because that's what the Bible teaches great explanation there on a very complicated topic.

Thanks for that. Thanks, Phil. This is core Christianity with pastor Israel Sanchez and today we want to offer you a wonderful book that will help you grow in your faith and really get a grasp of God's tender heart towards all of us have built today's offers a new book that I recently read and enjoyed.

We actually ordered a number of copies for members of our of our congregation in the book is called gentle and lowly, the heart of Christ for sinners and suffers sufferers by pastor Dana Portland. If you are simply exhausted in the Christian life weighed down by sin and by life's stresses and anxieties.

If you doubt or question your salvation God's love for you and I would say you need this book get a hold of gentle and lowly. It's a deep study into the very heart of God incarnate, discusses not only what Jesus did for us. But how God feels towards us and we often think God is, is that this sort of domineering judge when Jesus describes his own heart. In Matthew chapter 11. He says it's gentle and lowly, we fail when were discouraged, we don't know how to follow him. Christ's heart towards us is gentle and lowly in so get a hold of this resource and bill you can let him know how to get their hands on it. You can go to our website to give a donation of any amount. We will send you a copy of this wonderful book. Just go to core Christianity.com/offers.

You can also call us for that offering one of our offers at 833-843-2673. Again, that number is 833 the court let's go to voicemail.

We received this one is from Catherine in Miami, Florida. She and her old heel. Actually, apparently at our church.

Here you go After he ate what he had connected me To try to help him and work like that.

What else he will much take out and that's wonderful question and another follow-up on the on the question we received yesterday, so I don't believe that the prohibitions in places like first Timothy chapter 2 and a first contents 14 applied to Venus a woman counselor, a woman teaching a Sunday school class. Even in the church are a woman CO that kind of a thing I think is its focusing on the ordained office of elder and in particular that the first preaching office in the church teaching at the local assembly when they gathered together for worship. So I think that that's what's being prohibited there, that's my that's my perspective on those passages that side of the there's anything wrong with with your friend.

Being a counselor counseling people in the church. I just tell you I am so blessed by number of counselors that our churches worked together with I think this is really important because there are some issues in the life of the church to just require a little bit extra help in their ways in which your friend is a trained therapist and counselor will be able to help and encourage people struggling with any number of things mental illness. For example, in ways that pastors aren't equipped to be able to help. And so I think it's really wonderful when churches can build relationships with godly Christian counselors in the area and begin to be able to encourage people who maybe need a little bit of extra help in their church, whether it's in a marriage and family therapy or or something else to go and sit down with with some of these counselors that they can trust and so I'm excited for your friend. I think it really is a wonderful resource. I know that there are also some cautions and can think you want to watch out for in terms of thinking about counseling in a church context and bill your ear a trained Christian counselor into what will pipe some of those cautions be no the ethics code for psychologists and for family therapists include something we call dual relationships so we have to be aware of. In other words, let's say we are going to a church where counseling within that church and then were seeing the person that we counsel in the congregation at a potluck in a small group setting and that can really wreak havoc in a lot of ways, especially if you got a person.

The counseling session that is divulging some very difficult, painful information to you that you need to keep confidential, so I would say and it sounds like. In this particular case the woman is saying she'd like to partner with the church and maybe she doesn't attend that particular church.

I think where you can really muddy the water is if you go to a smaller church and you have a person from the congregation counseling others in the congregation and then rubbing shoulders with them on a weekly basis. I think then you have to really consider that whole dual relationship issue that that's really helpful, but I would again just say oh I would want to encourage your friend.

I know that there there are members of our church who are serving as counselors are looking to the future to serve in this capacity in the future to serve in this capacity and gets me excited because I think this is an excellent resource. I think that for a long time. The church is not done a very good job talking about mental health and even encouraging people to pursue counselors that can assist them with some of the some of the struggles that they might have worked, where they could really benefit from a counselor and so I think you should encourage your friend in and hopefully she'll be a wonderful resource to the churches she partners with with maybe the church that you're part of almond and various other churches as well. So God bless you Catherine thanks so much for your call and it really got to tell you. I always appreciate the fact that you point people to Christian counselors as a resource because in our culture.

Right now we have a lot of depression.

We have a lot of anxiety. We have people that are suicidal and unfortunately a lot of those people are in the church and so there are folks that really could use that professional help and so thanks for always pointing that out. Let's go to Judy in Springdale, Arkansas Judy, what's your question for pastor Israel family current cell setting things around me. I thought my life when I was a teenager, my family has been exactly dance and second chances like since keep coming down on my family and I don't feel safe in the presence around me that I just I would like advice on how tailor-made that victory over evil that seemed to be around us.

Will Judy I don't I don't know me, know sometimes we get questions about generational curses that kind of thing. Is there some sort of evil spell that's been cast on my family that causes all these terrible things to happen. I don't know that that's that's always the best way of looking at when the Bible talks about curses in places like Deuteronomy Deuteronomy chapter 28 or even the very beginning of the book of Genesis when God cursed the ground. For example, or curse the serpent unit did it something that's related. First and foremost to sand in the entrance of sin into the world. Death itself is a kind of of curse that we experience in the world. As a result of sin is on one since we would say that all of humanity.

Judy and Adam born and Adam is cursed, and experiences. The effects of the cursed death, destruction, sorrow, sadness we live in a fallen world. Now the hope that we have the hope that you have is that Jesus on the cross bore that curse pulses this very clearly in the book of Galatians and so the first thing that I would want you to know sister is that the curse. The curse of death, destruction, the curse that sin brings about. If you believe in Jesus, you're no longer cursed. You are in Christ. You are a child of the living God. He's received you into his family. That doesn't mean that you're not going to experience sickness, physical death, suffering, those kinds of things we do because we live in a fallen world, but Christ is in you and with you, and he has taken your curse and so in terms of the removing the cursed is not something that we do. It's what Jesus did and we receive his work for us and then we rest in it. Now with regard some of the things itself to me like you might be referring just to spiritual warfare, which we all experience as as Christians.

And Paul says very clearly in the book of Ephesians we need to put on the armor of God, we need to pray, we need to resist the evil one by Peter in first Peter talks about how the evil one goes about like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. And so you do have to be aware of that and so we go to the Lord in prayer and we say Lord close me, wash me, fill me with your spirit only with the fruit of your spirit so that I might resist the evil one those temptations that come my way.

That sense of darkness that he wants to put over me that that the good news sister is that if you're in Christ, the evil one can snatch you out of the father's strong hand your secure you're safe, but he can shoot his darts at you and discourage you. And that's what you have to continually fix your eyes on the Lord you need to be devoted to prayer. I hope Judy that you're in a solid Christian community where other brothers and sisters can pray for you and encourage you in your walk with the Lord as well. That's really important unity. Think about that text again in first Peter, it says the evil one goes around seeking to devour someone he's looking for stragglers for people who aren't in community for people who don't have accountability. Those kinds of things and so know that Jesus has one taken your curse. The curse of sin on the cross and that in him you are secure into we are in a very real spiritual fight in the evil one is is trying to discourage us and bring us down. And so we devote ourselves to prayer. We fix our eyes on Jesus, and we trust he's won the battle and he has and because Jesus is one the battle. Judy you have. Hope you can rest in him and know sister that you are secure. Thanks for listening to core Christianity request your copy of today's special offer. Visit us at core, Christianity.com and click on offers in the menu bar or call us at 1-833-843-2673. That's 833 when you contact us. Please let us know how you been encouraged by this program and be sure to join us next time. As we explore the truth of God's word together