Life Lessons and Love Languages - Dr. Gary Chapman

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I think the story of all of our lives. Welcome to building-related author of the New York Times. Five love languages today a look at the life memoir titled life lessons and love languages. What I've learned on my unexpected journey is our featured resource today. Five love languages and I am so excited because usually Gary gift ask all questions of our guest today. It's going to be a no holds barred exposé into the life Dr. Gary Gary, I hope you're ready for Chris know for sure. I read through your book and I have to tell you, you know, we spent a few years together here. I've heard some of your stories, but there were things in your that I didn't know about you, again.

The title is life lessons in love languages what I've learned on my unexpected journey was that your idea for the title. No Christmas day. I was how I became me, but the producers decided on the title that you presently have. But I like the title their life lessons because that's what the books about and love languages and I think the reason they want to put love language is in the title is because I thought you know a lot of people her love languages, but they don't know Dr. Gary Chapman's going to have it through together here yes well and I like the life lessons to because it's not just here's what happened to me in my life.

You know, here's what happened here at the age when I was born and what at my family with its what you took away from that, especially as you looked in the rearview mirror of your life right that's right it's not just a chronological biography of my life. There is some chronology in it, obviously, but it's looking at various segments of my life and what I learned. You know what those various segments because we all hopefully learning learning learning. As long as we live and my hope is that some of the lessons I learned both in the hard things in my life, as well as the more pleasant things will help other people. You learn learned some lessons from these as I read it.

What I was really energized by the way that you do. This is very simple guy like me can read it, you know that's just forward in a simple way but simple sometimes can be the most profound thing I wonder is you look back on your life.

Your Sharon's things here that a lot of people never tell about themselves and II wonder why you think. Many hold back and what they're missing from not sharing well. I think there are probably different motivations why people do that.

And one of my hopes is that this book will encourage other older adults to think in terms of recording some of their life story you know you and even if you never get it published. It's going to impact your children and your grandchildren and great-grandchildren and I think that young people have a lot to learn from parents and grandparents, but often the young people don't even know how to ask the questions, but if you write down some of the things you've experienced the good and the bad. Maybe you can help them like and come to emulate some of the positive things and avoid some of your pitfalls so you know that's that's my attitude is share reality. You know on your life and yes there are things that maybe you're ashamed all of us wish we hadn't done that but if we learn from them. Then God uses even our failures. How many times have you heard a eulogy about somebody and you said I never thought about that. You know I never and and understood the bad stuff for the little things that they did that they didn't tell anybody because they were ashamed of the just of the little tidbits of their lives.

I think that that a lot of people how much better would it be not to hear it in a eulogy but you telling your children or your grandchildren so you go to the website. Five love languages.com you'll see our featured resource day by Dr. Gary Chapman life lessons in love languages what I've learned on my unexpected journey.

One of the first places I want to go that was is to your childhood where you grew up, because there was a time when you moved from North Carolina to Syracuse and then you came back. But paint have a picture of us in our minds of that small town that you grew up in what was that like I was nine China Grove, not the one the Doobie Brothers. Think about what a real child's Aldergrove name for the china berry tree okay is very logical and there were groves of them so yeah yeah I grew up there in that small town actually right outside the small town, to be honest with you, but during the second world war if you worked in a defense plant, you would not be conscripted into the military and my dad's brother had moved to Syracuse New York. It was working in a steel mill there and my dad thought me. I'd rather work and still mail them to get shot at the war, he moved our family which was just me and my sister and my mother to Syracuse, New York, and we were there for 18 months.

My own lease vivid memory was the snow was higher than I was, because I was this young euros, five, six years old, but after 18 months into winters. My dad decided he'd rather be in the military than to live in Syracuse and I'm sorry for you folks who live in search that was his conclusion that he moved us back to North Carolina and he joined the Navy. So yeah and so the next three years.

Mom was our caregiver and we got letters from dad's yeah a lot of Lotta good memories that you remember those letters and and he got packs of letters because of the way that the male went as he was on the on the naval ship, but you remember her opening those up and reading them to yeah mom would write him almost every day, and as you said, sometimes I get bundles of letters because there wasn't daily mail delivery on the ship. I need right mom pretty regularly and mom would get my sister nine. This should just read them out loud to us and then at the end of the letter, almost always, he would tell us in her give your mom a big hug for me and be sure that you obey her that he was quoting the Bible suicide. He knows the Bible, but now the interesting thing about him was that he wasn't really a believer when the two of them got married and your mom was right, yeah he mom was a Christian and a regular churchgoer and when they started dating. After a while he started going to church with her. But they were not Christians when they got married and I suggested to mother later because years later when my mother was.

I guess in her 90s, early 90s I sat down with her and for two hours.

Ask her questions and I recorded her answers and one of the things that I ask us in a mom that one very wise you you married dad and he was not a Christian and she said I know but God took care of that and what she meant was two years after they were married. My dad became a Christian and when he became a Christian he was all in. So God did take care of it. I still don't recommend people marrying a non-Christian, but obviously in that case, God did take care of it. There's a story about the China berries that you were using a slingshot and student at other kids in the neighborhood and they were shooting back right now is to have war we called it war with China berries thereby have slingshot and that we would hang behind trees and step out enough to shape the china berry in China berries about the size of a marble and almost as hard as a marble and will shoot each other. If you hit them. They had to doubt.

You had to Depaul down – try to see who could be yes it would be standing at the end of the war and about one day I shot a young guy's name was Mickey and I shot him and hit him in the eye and he just raced home you crying and screaming and his older sister when she found out what happened.

She came out the back door.

MIC declare war on us and she said there will be no more. China berry wars.

You hear that no more guards felt badly and all my friends felt badly. We won't hurt each other.

We know we were just playing and I guess that's probably the first time I realized that if if you are doing something that you think is fun but it hurts other people. It ceases to be fun so that's that's a good lesson to learn. I'm glad I learned early in childhood. What did you learn growing up there though, in that it's a it was a textile mill town that your dad your dad worked the millwright right down.

He worked on the third shift, which means he went to work at 11 o'clock at night and get off at 7 o'clock in the morning and then he would come home and that he would sleep during the daytime and then about 3 o'clock in the afternoon he would get up out of bed and so and he did that he chose it that on purpose so that in the afternoon. He could be with me and my sister and spend time with us with our homework when we needed it, and then in the summer and spring time. We would work in the garden with him. Looking back on it I didn't realize at the time, but looking back on it always appreciated the fact that my father chose that shift because of the textile mills. The first shift which is seven in the morning to three in the afternoon everybody won the first shift that's ideal work hours and so he could get on the first shift. It was an option whether he had to work on the second shift unit which goes to work and 3 o'clock in the afternoon works till 11 o'clock at night he would and we would never have seen him.

And so that's why he shows 1/3 shift and Saab always appreciate that about him. So you grew up, then your your formative years and the things you remember about your dad in the war in the in the 1940s basically right yes absolutely.

I was born in 1938 so I was a child through the 40s and do you remember seeing your first television I do. It was at my neighbors house my uncle and aunt lived next door to us and they got the first television on our street and so I was over there and they were show me this is television thing and we were seeing people in other places around the country and I couldn't believe it when you look in the screen and see these people in New York and China and Charlotte and Africa talk member I was rather blown away with the whole idea.

My family think it did not get a television for a couple years later but yeah television was big in those days. Actually, it did not impact my life very much because of the time. Television was coming along. I was getting older and getting ready to go off to college what you think would've happened to you would be different in your life if you grew up at a time when there were computers and smart phones and everything all the screens that we have today. I've often wondered that Chris how would that have affected my life. How would I have been different and that's a question I'm asking.

Also about two young families today who have children at home and a screen driven world like you and I wrote a book about this with Arley Bell again. You know we going to allow screens to control the lives of our children. Are we not use screens in a positive way, but not let them become addicted to screens. Well, there's no way to predict Chris what model how my life would've been different had been raised in this generation. With all the technology that we have, but I do think that it apparently to be thinking about it. How is technology affecting my children. What lessons are they learning what morals are they learning you know and and if they're playing video games all the time.

Research indicates they will become addicted to video games, and likely still be doing that when there 2425 unit except a lot of things to think about reflect along those lines you write about coming home every day from school having a snack doing your homework doing your chores. You and your sister would listen to the radio because the TV wasn't there, and you mention some of the radio programs that you listen to, but there was a structure to your life. There was there were these things that were put in place that you just did every day and that's one of the reasons why think you say now the children of today even though it's wildly different. They need structure and one of the things I do in this book Chris is along the way, I am challenging parents to learn some things you know from my experience in looking back on it, and we know today. All the research indicates that children thrive on structure and when there's a time to eat and there's a time to read and there's a time to do homework and there's a time to watch a TV program and there's a time to do physical exercise and there's a time to play in the backyard when a child's life is structured much more emotional stability in a child and they will also tend to develop more social skills and also educational skills of concentration that sort of thing so yeah I think the more parents can do to structure the lives of children there doing their child a great service. Were you ever afraid of anything. As a child. The only thing I remember Chris that maybe was a little fearful for me was when the sirens would go off in the second world war. I think they're mostly just kind of warnings are tasked, you know, so that everybody would know if there was a problem you you supposed to find a safe place and I vaguely remember that, but it I don't remember it being super stressful for me or being afraid, but I do have that memory that the possibility of something could happen that would be really really bad and we would all need to hide with her teachers who gave you guidance as you grew up. Yes, one of them gave me guidance will give me a spanking that will be outlawed today. Let me tell the caller I don't even remember why she spank me, but I never forgot the spanking that was Mrs. coffee… Coffee in the fifth grade.

That's right. That's all I can imagine Gary Chapman in the fifth grade that there you were getting a spanking about and the thing is when I got home my mom gave me another spanking, how she found out now looking back on it, but at any rate.

Yeah there were some teachers that had a significant impact on my life and really the one that had the greatest significant impact was my Bible teacher that I was in a public high school and Bible was taught in the public high school while Old Testament survey and New Testament survey, the teacher of that class. In addition, what I was learning how the Scriptures, she was the one who mentioned in classroom one day something about DL Moody and Moody Bible Institute, which I had never heard and it was that mention of that that eventually led to my going to Bible Institute so she had a tremendous impact on my life didn't talk about your your coming to faith that what age did you see did you start to understand the truth about God in you and the gospel Chris. It was at the age of 10, and it was very dramatic. Sometimes people wonder whether children at that age can really you know you have a genuine response to Christ. It was very real for me was sitting in church on Sunday night and the pastor preached we were in church.

Always every Sunday morning. Every Sunday night. I knew the Bible stories and all of that.

That night I keenly became aware that I had never invited Christ into my life.

I was not a Christian and I really since God calling me to turn my life over to him and the pastor gave an invitation at the end of the service and asked people to come forward if they wanted to receive Christ. I wanted to go but I was really ashamed to go because I thought these people think I'm already a Christian. You know that I just wrestled with that and I didn't go forward and I walked out that night really feeling badly because I knew that God had called me to do something you and give my life to him and I didn't do it and in my mind I said I'll do that next Sunday night will next Sunday night I was in church.

I didn't have any sense like I've had the week before. I didn't sense that God was calling me that night and he was just there were no emotions at all. There was no thought all and I went home that night I thought. Did I miss my chance. Did I miss my chance. God call me and I didn't respond and I really felt it through the week and thought about it several times in the next Sunday night I was back in church and that night I felt the same thing.

Inside, I had the same impression of my mind. You need to give your life to Christ and accept him as your Savior and I almost ran to the front of the church that night and gave my life to Christ that you know I did not. Chris obviously understand all the theological things in him. What that really meant totally what it was going to mean in my life, but it was real.

I gave my life to Christ.

I accepted the fact that he paid my penalty on the cross and accepted his forgiveness is the greatest decision ever made because it impacted everything else in my life. So you know, no question in my mind.

Children can genuinely become followers of Christ at an early age. And if they're exposed to the truth, and the Holy Spirit touches their hearts.

It can be a genuine life-changing experience. This is Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman and were talking about the new book the Gary has written life lessons in love languages what I've learned on my unexpected journey we have linked@ 5lovelanguages.com again, go to five love languages.com there is so much in here. There's so many lessons from your life. But right there you so you commit your life to Christ. Your your new person. God has indwelt you. You know you you got the Holy Spirit. Now you go to the bus stop and Bo walks up tell us about you know the bus stop is where all the children from the first grade through the 12th grade would gather to get on the public school bus to go to the public school because the schools are all in one location. So here I was just accepted Christ at 10 years old Boca village walked up to Millie. He was a senior in high school he walked up to me he had on a white T-shirt and he had cigarettes wrapped up in his arm up at the top and he pointed his finger at me and he said somebody told me that you're a Christian. Is that true man-hours I was frightened and and I was silent for a moment and he said well are you and I said no, no, no, not me. Not me know me well good and he walked away and my heart sank because I knew I had denied Christ and I thought about Peter immediately. Peter came to my mind because I knew that story were Peter denied Jesus three times and that night when I finally got home, I got on my knees beside my bed and I confess to God my Savior and asked God to forgive me and to give me the courage never ever to deny that I was a Christian. And so God forgive me now.

I did not go back the next day and look up Boca village and tell him what I had that I've often regretted that I didn't do that. He never came back to me and into my circle you know with with with my age group. He never came back again and and I never, never knew what happened to him as a matter fact, several years ago I went back to China Grove and I asked several people that in the in the town if anybody remembered Boca village and and no one no one remembered him and through the years I've often wondered what ever happened to Boca village. I don't know. I would hope that somewhere along the line he came to know Christ. But I don't know that the only thing missing in that story. Gary is the rooster crowing yeah right yeah it was a Peter experience for sure. And you know again God use that to build into my heart and my mind my life and my lifestyle, a willingness to share my relationship with Christ not hitting people over the head with the gospel, but to be open and honest about Sherry my relationship with God and inviting others to join the family of God.

So even even that failure deeply deeply impressed me that that I didn't ever want to do that again I would do the opposite. I want to be open and loving about Sherry my relationship with God. I as I listened to that story either something that bubbles up and there were a couple of the stories through the book and you tell me if I'm wrong about this, but it sounds like you had to process an awful lot on your own that there was no one that you could go to and say or you chose not to go to anyone and say in a bow said this to me years. What I said I don't know what to do about this. You had to kind of work that out internally. Is it is it true that that is true Chris not yet out, I could've gone to my mom and dad and I don't know why I did not, but I didn't and I don't know if that was her support of my personality that was more was more internal in my thoughts and feelings and processing life. My parents I'm sure would been very open to hear that and maybe even suggested something that I might do, but I didn't wrestle with it in my own heart in my own mind and with God. Right, but I wonder if that's not why you're a writer you are a a person who internally struggles with these things and course you and Carolyn talk about all of this in your family will get will get to that love story here in a minute but internally that the struggle that goes on kinda leaks out onto the page and even the discovery of "The 5 Love Languages" themselves is kind of this internal work that was going on in you and observing the couples in your counseling office. Yeah, I think I think there's some truth to what you're saying Chris my wife is an extrovert and I'm an introvert by nature I'm an introvert now. People see me at our church in the lobby and all they would think I'm an extrovert, because I'm talking to people you know and taking the initiative to reach out and meet people and all that sort of thing because you can learn today that it doesn't come natural from labor to learning.

Now it's very natural and normal for me to do that but yeah I been an introvert and holding things inside and ran processing things in my mind and and listening to people because sometimes an extrovert who tries to be who is a counselor has a hard time not talking and waiting and asking questions and listening and empathizing with people before they talk you know our personalities impact us but were not controlled by her personality. Our program is Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman. You can find us online@ 5lovelanguages.com. There you can take an easy assessment of your life language your language of apology and more + our featured resource today. The new memoir by Dr. Chapman titled life lessons in love languages. What I learned on my unexpected journey you can find out more at 5lovelanguages.com or Gary so your your through high school. You finish high school. What you gonna do with your life all the people that are ask you what you do with your life.

Was there a moment where you made a conscious decision that I need to go into a Christian environment Christian work yes Chris.

I was a senior in high school and I was having those questions what what am I going to do with my life was the first step. What's the next and I had the sense that maybe God wanted me to do some kind of ministry full-time and that so one Sunday afternoon, I simply ask a group of my friends because our youth group was very very active and I was active in that group and I just picked up several friends and say would you guys is meet with me for an hour this afternoon and and and pray with me and then I shared with them.

What I want to pray about that God would give me direction on where I should what my next step in life should be, because I was coming up for graduating in high school and so they did and they prayed.

I prayed and by the time that hour was over I knew in my heart that God wanted me into some kind of full-time ministry.

Chris, I only knew two things that you could do full-time in ministry. One is to be a pastor. The other was to be a missionary and I visualize missionaries as being in the jungle and I didn't like snakes so I reasoned in my I think I will be be a pastor made sense to me know what that was.

That was my mindset, but I knew that God was leading me to enters into some kind of full-time ministry so yeah that was a significant turning point in my life because it really gave direction to the rest of my life. This will maybe it was one of the things you are scared of snakes that you did mention before that you snakes there in China. But I'd say I'd seen snakes. Yeah, I had been bitten by a snake not seen them in undigested. I did like the way they look aggressive. Okay so you told us a little bit about that.

The teacher in Moody Bible Institute folks. It is so fascinating to read about you get not. It was a Trailways bus and one from North Carolina all the way to Chicago absolutely and here's what happened.

She mentioned that in class, Moody Bible Institute, and my friend Jerry Wright. My friend wrote and got a catalog. I remember this was before computers.

Okay he wrote and got a catalog and one day in study hall. I borrowed his catalog and I read the whole thing and if the end of reading the catalog I knew in my heart that's where God wanted me to go somewhat to my pastor. Well first of all, I wrote a got a catalog and application forms and when they came back I noticed that you had to have a pastors you know endorsement somewhat to my pastor and ask him if he was familiar, Moody Bible Institute Lisa well I know it was started by an evangelist. DL Moody said he was kind of the Billy Graham of his day and I know it's in Chicago but I don't know much about it and I knew that I knew more than he did about the school because it fit the catalog and I asked if he would give me an endorsement, he shall be happy to. So he did and I was accepted. So yes, I got on a Trailways bus in Salisbury North Carolina which was a town about 10 miles north of China Grove and looked out the window and my mother and dad were there. My mother was crying and I won quite sure why she was crying but I didn't. I didn't dwell on that because if I did I was afraid I'd start crying.

You see, in those days. Of course I knew nothing about the emotions that a parent feels when their child is going off to college. But anyway I put that aside and that I don't remember much about the bus ride to Chicago but when I got there I got off the bus took my two suitcases and walked out on the sidewalk and I saw a cab and I waved at the cab because I'd seen on television and the Stop and I said that I like to go to Moody Bible Institute. He sincerely so he took me to 820 N. LaSalle Boulevard in Chicago and let me out in front of the arch which is the way into Moody. As you well know, and I walked in and said I'm Gary Chapman, the freshman been accepted and that up and that began my three year journey had Moody Bible Institute in those days it was just an institute that in offer degrees in those days, so spent three life-changing years at Moody Bible Institute in Chicago and then went to Wheaton College and you studied is not affect your dad said something about when you go to get a job every time I got another degree. He would say you going to get a job now son right so well that is what is one more degree but it only an eighth-grade education. He couldn't figure why anybody would go to school as long as I was going to screw it out when you went to Wheaton then you studied anthropology, which was the same thing that Dr. Billy Graham at study right yes and the reason I did is because by the time I finished Moody Bible Institute. I had the sense that God was leading me to be a missionary course by then I realize not all missionaries work in the jungle okay but I had the real sense God was leading me to be a missionary and I was the president of missionary union which was the student led mission group on campus at Moody Bible Institute.

That's how strongly I felt about and so anthropology, cultural anthropology is a great background for missionaries because your studying cultures and how their organizing what their religions are and how the met family works in all those kind of things so yeah that's why a major. I didn't realize at the time the Billy Graham and majored in anthropology, but I learned that out later. It was a good background in preparation for meeting missionary. See all of these dots, though, as as younger people are listening right now and they're asking these questions.

How do I had about become Dr. Gary Chapman. You know how I had "The 5 Love Languages" .

How do I state the same church for 50 years. How do I do all of these things in my life that was not even on your radar. At the time and one of the life lessons that you talk about is making it one decision at a time, taking one step at a time, and being fully they are fully invested in what you're doing right in front of you, rather than having to look down the road to the future. Is that true, huge, huge lesson Chris I I didn't even I'd never heard of Wheaton College when I went to Moody Bible Institute, and I did know what the word anthropology meant when I went to Bible Institute so yes what you take one step at a time. God doesn't give us the whole plan as to where were going. He shows you the next day you take that step, you learn everything you can in that step and by the time there's to be another step he shows the next step and you walk through that door and that that was my educational journey from school to school in my educational but it's true in the whole of life. If God gives the whole picture at the beginning we would probably overwhelmed, but he gives us the next day and we take the next step in the next happens yeah that that's the story of my life. I think the story of all of our lives. Basically, well, let's deal with the love story though because you we talked about this year before on the program that you got a dear Gary letters a dear John letter from the girl that you thought you know was hung the moon and she said nobody here and that was just a deep wound for you when you were at that in Chicago yeah that's right the first verse here. My freshman year we had dated. The last three years of high school and I was deeply in love. Okay man, I had the strong strong feelings for her and she had feelings for me. Lisa thought she did you know but I hadn't been the Moody ice in the first semesters.

I remember and I got this is a dear John letter.

You know, and she said Chicago is a long ways North Carolina and I just think we're at the place where you need to go your way and I need to go my way when I was devastated and I pray to God help this girl did not open her eyes to show her and I love her dinner were meant for each other. Incidentally, it's a prayer I'm glad that God did not answer retrospect, I even wrote a letter to help God you know and not try to explain to her.

You know how much I loved her how much I since this was God's will for us in to no avail.

So yeah I was I was brokenhearted and maybe some of your too old.

Remember, you probably were brokenhearted.

Somewhere along the line to and the young people need to know it.

It's a traumatic experience when you're rejected by somebody that you you know you felt this was the real thing and I was having trouble studying and concentrating. You know, studies in one not Edison to God, can't go on like this. You know how just torn. I came here to learn. I came here to study.

I came here to look grow in my life with you got have helped you got to help me to let this thing go and give me freedom to dig into what I need to be doing now and God answered that prayer and gave me the ability let that be history and to say okay that's past. Now we don't know what's in the future. But let's spend your time doing what you came here to do so yeah it was. It was a huge thing working through the trauma of that you met Caroline and it was wasn't love at first sight.

Would you say it was attraction at first sight for sure. I was was that movie is. This is a couple years later, and I came home one Easter and went to church and I had known Carolyn before we grew up in the same church. In fact, she was the best friend of my girlfriend and once in a while we double dated in high school, but I saw that morning and I thought may how did I miss her.

I was very attracted just looking at her, you know. So after church we had a good long conversation just catching up with each other. I found out she was there working as a telephone operator which modern young people would not know what that is but that's another subject in Greensboro North Carolina and that she was at home she was living in Greensboro when she came home every other weekend or so. So I we had a great conversation and found that she was think about going to college and she want to go to a Christian college in man.

I'm thinking wow this is sounding good. So that night I went back to church. I can hardly wait to get back to church what the preacher said talk to Carol and so after church and engage in conversation and ask if I could take her home and she said well I'm with my mother and I said well I'll take your mother to you. They did not have a car. Her father was deceased and sauce I'll take your mother to and she said well we have arrived. She was very cold and I thought what happened between Sunday morning, Sunday night.

This morning she was so friendly and open, and now she's won't even let me take her home. Well I gave her time to get home and I drove to her house and knocked on the front. It's a day to the door and I said I just came about in the soup. We could talk and she let me in and we talked for three hours and I found out what it happened that afternoon.

She had told her best girlfriend, my former girlfriend that she talk with me that morning and that that we had a good conversation etc. etc. and mow girlfriend told her leave him alone. I am in love with him and she told me that that night and I said I haven't seen her in 2 1/2 years. How could she be in love with me that I didn't say like that I said kindly and then I said to Carolyn.

Listen, you can do what you choose to do, but I'm not going back to her. She broke my heart.

One time I it's not all happen again. There's no chance that we will ever I'll ever go back to her, but you can you can do what you want to do well.

We agreed that when I went back to school.

Wish we we would exchange letters and so we started a long term letter letter writing relationship that lasted really for longer than either one of us ever thought it would last. But we wrote letters for a long long time and which is all a part of the story as well. How many years do you think a because on the program you you are not a big fan of dating for a long time are being engaged for a long time but you and Carolyn were right and back and forth for years right yeah it started that senior year at Moody. They went all the way through the two years at Wheaton and then yell after those two years I was going to seminary decide to go to seminary and so because we were at least in a writing and felt like the relationship might go somewhere. I decide to go to seminary North Carolina even though that was not my preference and she agreed to transfer to a college near our home is so that on the weekends we could spend time together because we realize that we had this letter writing relationship for two to half years and what we had spent any time together very little time together so we did that and every weekend. We spent time together and then it was by the end of that year that we realize they'll get married so that the lotto letters I don't I don't know that either one of us saved all those letters but they were sure meaningful at the time. Yes, this yes and you and we don't know you know that there's no text then there is no fax machines you know and and phone calls were a lot you had to pay a lot for long distance phone call to time. We couldn't we couldn't afford phone calls we can afford phone calls, so it was letters, only letters you say that you would not be you without Carolyn was that mean well in that section. I look at the impact she has had on my life and I sorry to say in spite of all the problems we had in the early days of our marriage, but maybe because of all the problems we had in our marriage. I was greatly impacted by all of that, I probably would all the human side, I probably would never have gone into counseling if we had not had all of our problems, but going through all of our problems gave me great empathy for people who are struggling in their marriage and one of the lessons I learned there is that being a Christian, I mean being a sincere Christian does not exempt you from having marital problems and because we went through that. You know, eventually, God led me into counseling couples. So not only however did she impact me in that way, but she impacted me once we got things together in our marriage. She's greatly impacted me. She's been super supportive of everything I've done through the years because we I went on the school after we got married. In fact, two weeks after we got married. I want to set started in seminary and I was in seminary for two years then and then we pastored a church for two years and went back to seminary for three more years, so she was. She was very supportive through all of that to early educational journey that that time that I made. I got guess Chris about the one thing in my mind that stands out to show you who Carolyn is and how committed she is to me and I deal with this in the book is when cancer came one morning she said honey would you sit down I will share something with you and I sit down and she said I talked to the doctor yesterday and I have uterine cancer and what it was going to surgery next week and on. She explained the whole thing to me and I said I'm shocked for so I'm shocked and she said I didn't tell you last night because I didn't want to interrupt your sleep and him thinking curl what a girl.

And then I said okay Carolyn I'm going to cancel all of my speaking engagements for the next year I will be here with you every step of the journey and she said you listen to me you are not going to cancel anything that God is put on your schedule, you're going to do everything that you schedule to do you be here when I need to. If you happen to be away and I have need some help that I have friends will be here in five minutes and I knew that was true but she has many girlfriends assume a honey of a full and we pray about it so I did pray about it. We talk further about it and finally I great okay Carolyn, it's one of the leading cancel anything the whole year and I was there at crucial moments. You know there for the surgery and all that went with her to chemo treatments and all that was a whole year and course she went through everything and they lost her hair, lost weight, couldn't eat everything. She calls it her loss to hear because it was very, very difficult… So she is. You know that's that indicates her attitude of support for me in my ministry and I know that a lot of pastors don't have that kind of support from their wives, and I feel for them, but I do know I would not be me without her. As such an insightful story to the book of life lessons and love languages. What I've learned on my unexpected journey and we haven't even touched on. You know how "The 5 Love Languages" came about. We talked about that here before.

Could you just tell us you went to hospice recently and you met this couple can you tell us that story as we close today.

Sure, you want to hospice to demand the husband was in the hospital in hospice and his wife was there and I walked in the room and he said Dr. Sam, and you can help us. He said there were sitting here planning my funeral and I he said you can help us such a got my pen and pencil and I met my pen and paper and I just started asking questions about things that would think about for the funeral and made notes and all and and when we finished all of that.

I said well let me let me pray for you so I stood up beside his bed and took his left hand. She went on the other side of the man took his other hand and I reached across the bay and held her hand upright for both of them and I prayed for God's hand upon him and God's will in his life. I just did. I just poured my heart out to God for them and when I finish praying I released his hand and I released her hand when he read. He held onto her hand and he brought it to his face and he kissed her hand and what he did. I whipped tears just flew down my face told him up for because I remembered 35 years ago when that couple said in my office and said to me we have no hope for our marriage too much as happened. It's gone on too long we have no hope.

And the only reason we're here because a friend of ours told us that we should come and talk to you before we separate and I said to them what I've said many couples.

I'm not going to ask you, do you want to work on your marriage because it's pretty obvious to me that you've lost the will to us and I'm going to ask you will you work on your marriage if they want to use an emotional word will is choice we make acid if you will work on your marriage that I'll meet with you and will try some things and will see what can happen and I chose to work on the marriage they want. Excited, they didn't have any hope.

Nine months later they walked out of my office holding hands and said to me, if anyone ever told me that we would have love feelings for each other again and be where we are right now in our marriage we would never believed I hear they are 35 years later at the end of the road and I walked out of the car with tears in my eyes. I said oh God, how I wish every couple in the world could come to the end of the journey like this in. That's the reward that counselors find and spending hours helping people when you can see that kind of reconciliation over the long haul and see lives and marriages.

It doesn't always happen to be sure, but that's what we hope for is pastors and counselors we deal with people in this book is filled with those kinds of stories it will warm your heart. Best thing I've read all year.

Dr. Gary Chapman life lessons in love languages what I've learned on my unexpected journey. Bless you Gary, thanks for sharing your heart.

Well thank you Chris.

I am grateful that God brought to my mind that I could share with others in my hope is that as a reader to find great encouragement for their own because God has a plan for all our thanks to Kenneth Todd and Steve went for their production work on the program and you for listening.

Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman action at meeting radio ministry in the Bible and