Producers' Pick | Josh Rogin: Biden NSC Declined to Give Ukrainians Stinger Missiles

This episode is brought to you by Samsung unfold the all new galaxies. He fold for and expand your world with flex mode it stands on its own, so your hands free to get more done during calls and with multi-window view. You can use up to three apps at the same time plus the edge to edge screen allows you to fully immerse yourself in your favorite games and shows. Visit Samsung.com to learn more about galaxies he fold Josh Rogan. Welcome back to Brian Kelly Joe, great to be back with you Brian hey I just your busy guy you not just focusing on trying to devote to everything. Along with your book about a paperback in her Washington Post column and is as well as other podcast you're on. First off, I loved your column today talk about Cork. Even the mayor they been shelled water for three straight days at least they been a lot of their energies been shut off, but the mayor vows to do what.) Well, I spoke to the mayor khaki from his bunker and he vowed that the city will not give up that the Army will not give up a fight to the last man and he would appreciate it if we could stop futzing around with sanctions and on oligarchs, yachts, and actually give him some weapons and some food and some medicine and some first aid equipment for his first responders and some heavy weaponry so that they might actually survive and save the city from shelling bombing missiles, rockets, cluster bombs and an onslaught of hundreds of heavy vehicles that are squeezing and encircling the city like a boa constrictor he's in a desperate situation. Parties projecting confidence because his people are fighting alongside of him and you know it just shocking when you talk to people on the ground in Ukraine fighting for their lives, how disconnected, that is, from our discussion in Washington about sanctions on oligarchs, both which is nonsense.

When you think about actually doing something that could change the course of this warranty to save this country from aggression so well. It was pretty amazing is that we had the biggest build up the biggest wind up in the history of conflicts for this and we remember in 2000. We famously imprison Obama what side let's provoke. I want to reset their relationship was to provoke the Russians by giving Ukrainians anything besides blankets and MRAs and then Bertram came in and gave them some lethal weapons, but obviously sinister chicanery going on. That resulted in the impeachment, but all tight.

What a mess and then the shipment I understand was coming into Odessa was turned around on the transition of power with Pres. Biden.

I don't understand if you going to telegraph the war in a conflict like we did, and I think that's a good move. Why wouldn't you at least get arms in there how you rationalize not getting arms in there at a great rate.

Right now you're totally) while there'll be plenty of time to look back at all the mistakes we made and the most urgent thing is to help Ukrainians fighting now. I will take a minute look back at the mistakes we made because there that there are egregious and I say that three administrations in a row have failed the give Ukrainian people the respect of Monday and the arms that they need the builder fragile democracy without signaling to the blood report and that he should attack them, it did start with resident Obama 2009. If you remember 2008 when Britain invaded Georgia, George W. Bush, to his credit, Park, US Air Force planes on the ground into fleecy and dared the ring to attack MM and prune back down is the only thing Putin understands is security risk and reward. He understands the use of power, not the threat of sanctions in some future world where he doesn't even care about people getting sanctions so in 2009 Obama came in with the reset it then you got the message he attacked in 2014 took part of Ukraine. No real consequences. He got the message and here we are in 2022 and where wondering why why does he think he can do this without the world responding. I was in the Munich security conference right three weeks ago with all the Europeans they all know he would never do this. We can't give under breaking news on your show right now I reporting that the national security council officials told the Hill in December that they didn't want to give stingers to the Ukrainians because they couldn't handle them. They can absorb them. They were note that there with them. And here we are. What of a couple weeks into this war and all the sudden everyone's found religion on helping Ukrainians and it's almost too late. It's a atrocious, we fail to understand that like all dictators, the appetite grows with the eating we fail to understand that when freedom and democracy retreats in the world in places like Hong Kong and Afghanistan just for two examples. Autocracy fills the void we felt understand that while Americans are rightfully weary of American interventionism abroad, and rightfully skeptical of the US government's ability to do things abroad. As it turns out, the alternative is worse because that's when the dictators come in and blew everything to smithereens and were just enough to come back and clean it up later. So what you mean additional stingers because I thought there were already stingers on the ground at that point that you mean no mind I'm saying is that in the as you pointed out the split buildup took months and months and months and I and many of us in Washington and around the world watch the Biden mistress to get dragged to tooth and nail it out bit by bit into doing the right thing and first they got embarrassed by the Brits who provided weapons before they did. Even the intelligence disclosures they were following a London on that then they were trying to sync up with the Germans and the French you it until the very last minute and want to give the Ukrainians anything really to defend themselves the singers is one example. My reporting again is that there was a reluctance to provide them with stingers as late as December and now the spinning hundreds of their giving them javelins and toes and others, but the singer just for one example and those of the things that I could protect the areas of the things that kill Russian plans but if you put that into the context into the pattern of the Biden ministry. Oh well will sanction this oligarchic not that oligarchs will sanction this bank but not that bank they still want sanction the Russian energy sector which is kind of ridiculous when you think about it because were trying to force Putin to empty his coffers and then were paying them money to refill them by buying his loyal the same time it's crazy Brian and this is because our work. We we don't want to provoke him is that with his.

I think that ship has sailed. Fox News contests network – Fox News contributor transom.com daily newsletter. I'm inviting you to join a conversation every week to bend Dominic's podcast to strive and listen no Fox News podcasts.com I do too and I think you have one thing is pretty clear with trying to judge by Maputo Western values and were trying to pretend as if he's playing a a fair game and I just think the best example of that is would have with those minks. There was supposed to be delivered even though there were older to Poland and be part of the Air Force may be the only part of the Air Force for before the Ukrainians and at the last minute NATO pulled back they thought was going to be too provocative right were going in this crazy cycle where we have to clear everything that we do with 27 other European countries.

For the sake of unity that never really existed in the first place and all that does is result in a policy that the lowest common denominator. We only get to give them things that 30 countries agree on none in a no. We have to give them the things that they say they need and again if you talk to the Ukrainians if you bother to and trust me they want to talk there trying to talk to us there, begging us for so what they say they need is very specific armed drones fighter planes javelins anti-armored tow missiles stingers munitions helmets bandages food, medicine, you know it like that. The list is endless. They also need economic support they need financial support they can't really collect taxes. Right now they can really pay the garbage. This piano removal people right now so they need a lot of things that were just not giving them lower celebrating that some billionaire jerk got his yacht taken in the ionic hours you know it's it's it's it's an alibi. And you know the sanctions are not to do it has to be a mix of all of the use of American power in and just agree with what you said upfront. Yes, Putin is a totalitarian expansion is aggressive dictator.

We fooled ourselves for a long time with the thinking that he could be coerced or convinced or bribed into joining the community of free and open societies in pushing his country towards more freedom with democracy is not is not happening by the wayside happening in China either. So this should have woken up all of those people in our discourse to think that these are not threats that we have to deal with this should've woken up people in our discourse, who believe that we were history was over and that in all we had to do was strike a couple of deals in that Russian China would join us in a Pax Americana or whatever nonsense we been telling us ourselves as the end of the Cold War history didn't and autocracy didn't stop and unfortunately it there's no one else to leave the world to fight it except for us and I wish we would get in the game a little bit. I would do to and must be in Munich. Was there any country that really understood the urgency before Zelinski.

Of course showed up himself which we took risk. It was risky to was there anybody that you said what this country seems to get yes the Estonians the Latvians the Lithuanians to extend the poles number 116 the Russian the ones who used to be invaded and controlled by Russia will understand what prudent is to understand the the revisionist vision that he has for the world to understand that they can. It's very democracy, freedom isn't free, and democracy is fragile and that if you signaled to Pruden that he can bomb a country to smithereens and not pay a price that's exactly what he's gonna do, say, of Eastern Europe, but you know you go to these things in Munich. It's always the Germanies and the Francis that that you think you're so special and they run all the events and they look down on Eastern Europeans. Zelinski got up and said hey guys you guys are whistling past the graveyard and this is gonna be really bad and we wish you would wake up and there are so rude lately. They don't work. They were they were fooling themselves.

Even the US menstruation with bind menstruation in Munich was pulling themselves the thinking everything was gonna be okay and now they're scrambling okay. The only silver lining.

This whole thing is that all the sudden Europeans realize that American world will lead world order is better than the alternative. Okay, it's not that WordPerfect is not that we do everything right and history. It's not that we have unlimited resources but the alternative to the system that we built is this it looks like Siri. It looks like rising at the North Korea in the middle of Europe. That's what were about to see if we don't get our act together a quick Josh.

I think the things are changed is someone Zelinski can communicate his guy really is selling his story and the composure he has under pressure. Some obviously we didn't see her Gandhi. We still haven't found a honey he left so when things got tough.

He got better he shamed world leaders into backing him and one Berlin hosted 500,000 protesters in support of Ukraine. They made their leaders change their policy 40 happen though the first weekend in in America we started in Paris. We sold all around the Western leaders had to be embarrassed to changing policies by their people and by a fearless leader who commanded respect by his actions.

Do you agree, no, absolutely, he showed that freedom is worth fighting for. Even something is worth dying for, and you know that that is what they didn't have in Syria they didn't have a democratic leadership in a courageous leader take to the fight the Russians in a ended up getting killed by the Russians were set for 12 years getting ongoing so yeah that's that's an asset, the greenies have. It's always easier to fight for something that you believe in that the fight for an evil dictator who sends his people into Ukraine to be cannon fodder. That's that's their advantage. But I'm just a little bit more skeptical than you that the world really has woken up because why did we send the 70 fighter planes all because Pruden threatened those countries with economic punishment, and they acted in their own interest, not in the interest not to be enlightened self-interest of the free and democratic world.

So I yeah we moved up the world history is changed where the whole world has changed in the last week but were still not given Ukrainians, the things that they need were still pretending that were putting pressure on Pruden again fight sanctioning oligarchs, yachts, and not the energy sector of Russia, which is how we make all of his money in the first place. I mean, it's not serious.

I'm not saying that we should go to World War III am I saying that we should put American troops in harm's way under Singapore knocking juvenile float Faisal because there's no political appetite formed by nuns want to do it or whatever. Then let's do all the economic stuff and not piecemeal it out. While these people are literally being sheltered that the cluster bombs. It's insane got 90 seconds left. Joshua seven expertise on China.

China has her own Swift system which they're going to offer to give to you know to be a part of. With Russia.

Overall, do you think China is been that big backstop and that big Savior for Russia that many thought they would be absolutely.

There's this crazy notion inside the bind menstruation around Washington that somehow China could be a broker at the diplomatic constructive actor in this Ukraine crisis and it's totally wrong China as a co-conspirator okay babe underwritten the invasion literally, by buying all of the oil and gas that even we want sanction it Western private companies no longer will deal with. They wrote Pruden into endorsing their vision for a Chinese lead world order in Beijing during the Olympics and then they've done everything they can to convince their people that that it's Ukraine's fault, not prudence fault that is actually a fight against the United States and their propaganda is aligned their interests are aligned their best frenemy is not the way its canopy and we just have to deal. Joshua was fascinating talking to ensure you get the sources you you break the story to move the you move the story forward. Thanks so much Josh anytime Fox News contrasts network subscribe and listen to the tradeshow refund just former federal prosecutor and four terms US Congressman from South Carolina brings you a one-of-a-kind puncher subscribe and listen no Fox News largess.com