DeadSea Scrolls And Mormonism — Part 3

Given your own words collection of Mormon quotations compiled his research ministries Bill McKeever is a valuable resource when wanting to know what Mormon leaders have said on a given topic and pick up your coverage of the Utah lighthouse bookstore or MRM.org .1 as it examines the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from a biblical perspective viewpoint when Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism do the Dead Sea Scrolls teach Mormonism welcome to this additional viewpoint on Mormonism on your host, Bill McKeever, founder and director Mormonism research ministry with me today is Johnson my colleague MRM this week were looking at some of the claims made by various Mormon writers who insist that Mormonism can be verified by some statements that have been found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Dead Sea Scrolls of course were discovered back in the 1940s and if anything, Eric. The Dead Sea Scrolls have certainly vindicated our understanding of the Bible are translations of the Bible as you were mentioning this week we have. For instance, the oldest text that our Bibles came from the Masoretic text in the Dead Sea Scrolls precede the Masoretic text by about a millennium.

Yeah so if anything, they seem to justify what we understand regarding the Bible, but Mormons have taken it and said no we find things in the Dead Sea Scrolls.

It actually supports Mormonism. There's a lot of information that were covering this week but you got our website MRM.org/Dead Sea Scrolls doctrine with hyphens in between each of those words and you can see what were talking about because all the notes for everything were talking about are found there that were going to be referencing a man by the name of Dr. Randall price. He's the author of the book secrets of the Dead Sea Scrolls and when I can go take the time to go back and look over his credentials, but I would easily say that Dr. Price's credentials regarding the Dead Sea Scrolls certainly outweigh some of these authors that we are going to be citing as well and as we mentioned, one of them is a man by the name of Dennis K. Brown, who wrote a book called evidences of the church. It was published by Cedar 14 2008 Randall price is going to take some of the arguments that Dennis Brown uses but is not refuting Dennis K Brown. He's going to be refuting another man by the name of Eugene see it. She wrote a book called Mormonism the Dead Sea Scrolls in the not commodity tax and so yesterday we ended our show by listing one of these doctrines that these writers have said can be found in the Dead Sea Scrolls and that is the doctrine of preexistence, which of course is a major teaching and Mormonism. But what does Dr. Price say about what Eugene see it in his book Mormonism the Dead Sea Scrolls and not commodity tax.

What is he say about this on page 385.

He writes see its first attempts to find Dead Sea parallels to the Mormon doctrine of heavenly preexistence of the soul. He begins with Josephus's statement that the Essenes believed the human soul was quote immortal and endured forever." And that's found in Jewish wars 2.8 page 154.

This of course assumes that those who wrote the scrolls were Essenes yet all Josephus's statement tell us is that the Essenes held to a doctrine of immortality, not preexistence.

What's more, nowhere in the scrolls themselves. Do we find evidence that the sect taught a preexistence for the human soul. If that's the case then why does Eugene see it say that why does Dennis K Brown say that and why does Charles Abbott say that I mean they don't really provide some clear evidence of this. And obviously Dr. Price's saying that just isn't true. So Mormons you gotta quit using the stuff you can't keep using this material, it's already been refuted that neither Brown nor Abbott provide. As I said specific references that would lend support to this theory. What does price gonna know I'm going to say that the references they give are very weak.

In fact, some of them from Brown come from notes that he took from Hugh Nibley. While there is no access that I can get to to see his notes or audio cassette tapes that he has and so the evidence that they're providing is not very strong, and I'm not an expert in Dead Sea Scrolls works or anything like that. And I've not read them in their original languages, but I've done a lot of study and I looked long and hard to find anything that would say anything about the other preexistence. Certainly there is belief in immortality of the soul, but Bill, you and I believe in the immortality of the soul. We believe that we will be glorified not as God's and will have new bodies, etc. and this is to me is the same way that the Mormons have tried to do when they point to the Eastern Orthodox Church and the whole doctrine of the Osa's you can go to our website. You can read a pretty long quote where it even goes further into showing how preexistence was not found in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Point number two do the nonbiblical tax suggests that man can become God's this is what Brown writes. He says the scrolls clearly state that we can progress eternally. Eventually becoming as God. Other churches have called us blasphemous when we teach this but built on the entire right now there's no support for this assertion. He does make a passing reference to notes given by Daniel Ludlow that were recorded in tapes but again I don't have that research blood was a Mormon. There is nothing outside of Mormon leaders or scholars that they are actually able to cite here and when I think about the Dead Sea Scrolls and the idea that the Essenes were a branch of Jews. They were in Judaism. Certainly they disagreed with the Pharisees and the Sadducees, they seems called themselves the Sons of light and they call the other groups the sons of darkness they didn't have a whole Lotta respect for them, but they still were very monotheistic in their belief and in fact if you look at the discovery of the scrolls you find only one book that has more references than Deuteronomy in the Dead Sea Scrolls Psalms 39 times Deuteronomy. There are 33 of the 230 manuscripts more than 10% come from Deuteronomy and we know Deuteronomy 64 is the most important verse in all of Judaism is called the Shema and it says here oh Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one which is the word hot and it's very much a statement of not only in Judaism but Jesus cites this passage in Mark monotheism is the rule and not the exception that there is only one God. There never has been another God, and there never will be another God that you have some scholars that will insist that the ancient Jews at time certainly did believe in more than one God, there's no arguing that we go through when we look at the Old Testament, we do find times when the nation Israel drifted off into believing in idols and full Scott and of course God was a little upset about that and brought punishments upon them for turning their backs on the God who had brought them into the land and promised to preserve them. By the time the Essenes come on the scene. There is no argument that the Jews were a monotheistic people. The Christians were a monotheistic people. In fact James in his epistles is that if you believe there's one God. You do well, which tells me that if you believe that there's more than one God, you're not doing well.

This notion that men could become God's would certainly seem to undermine that because of men could become God's that's the opportunity for potentially millions of God's you would think you would think to Bill that the book of Mormon would teach this and yet if the book of Mormon is supposed to be the most correct book on earth and a man could draw near to God by abiding by its precepts, and by any other book. That's what Joseph Smith said while, then what about all of the passages that seem to very clearly say there's only one God, such as third Nephi 1127 it says I say unto you, that the father the son and the Holy Ghost are one and I am in the father and the father in me and the father and I are one you don't find anything in the book of Mormon that teaches that there are people who could become God's or that God was ever a man and yet Joseph Smith change that Dr. later in his life.

And if you go to teaches of the prophet Joseph Smith, pages 346 347. He said here then is eternal life to know the only wise and true God, and you have got to learn how to be God's yourselves so Joseph Smith takes a doctrine that the Bible doesn't teach, nor does the book of Mormon, teach, and he makes it into men becoming God. So not only does the Dead Sea Scrolls not teach that. But we don't have that anywhere in the LDS Scriptures called the holy Bible or the book of Mormon will. Let's look also at Elmo 1126 through 29. This is the first that I've often brought up to Latter Day Saints because even though Mormons like CH your were Dennis K. Brown want to use this hyperbole believe that clearly it teaches this doctrine. It doesn't clearly teach this. I would say this seems to clearly teach that there's only one God, where it says NZ's room set onto him, speaking Amalek, thou say this, there is a true and living God, and Emulex said yeah there is a true and living God now sees room set is there more than one God and he answered this is Emulex who could not, by the way, if you look in that particular passage could not see anything contrary to the spirit of the Lord. Emulex says to that question. Is there more than one God and he answered no. There is not more than one God.

So you kidding find this as you said in the book of Mormon.

Now if they're going to say there's a parallel in the Dead Sea Scrolls you have to ask why it seems like the people who were writing the Dead Sea Scrolls don't seem to believe like people in the book of Mormon know so I say the Mormon has probably a worse dilemma on his hands. Fill the third point is do the nonbiblical text teach that marriage and family go into eternity. Now this one to me is I think the most bizarre of the five points. This is what Brown writes. He said the scrolls have many references to eternal families and state that we will be sealed with our spouses and families in the hereafter. They state that our families will be our greatest joy in the eternities. No other church besides ours teaches this today and maybe the reason no other church. Besides, there's teach this today is is certainly is not a doctrine found in the Bible.

Jody Magnus is an archaeologist who actually teaches at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill and has participated in more than 20 different excavations in Israel very famous archaeologist. This is what she says, referring to the first century Jewish historian Josephus, who wrote for Rome back in the first century. She said that his testimony indicates that the group or groups are ancient sources describe as the scenes included men who practice celibacy, at least occasionally. If not permanently, as well as married members. The archaeological evidence suggests that the community at Qumran consisted mostly of adult men not only to the celibacy practiced by at least some scenes attract their attention. But it fed into the authors misogynistic biases and was part of the ascetic lifestyle they consider to be virtuous in light of that statement by Jody Magnus if they're emphasizing celibacy that would certainly go against what modern Mormonism is teach.

Yet we think about the community role that was found in cave one very clearly talks about this idea that, in essence, women were evil. You stay away from them. There were other books found the sectarian text nonbiblical text that the of the Essenes wrote that seem to show that marriage was allowed but here on page 166 Magnus rights while Marriage Did Take Pl. in Qumran. There's no doubt about it. Josephus said that the this was only for the propagation of the species, so it wasn't for pleasure. It wasn't anything that was emphasized, women and children were very much a minority issue when it came to what they were doing in Qumran tomorrow were going to continue our look at some of the claims made by Mormon authors regarding the Dead Sea Scrolls do the Dead Sea Scrolls support Mormon doctrine so far were not finding evidence to bolster that claim. Thank you for listening.

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