Alma 7:10 — Part 1

If the LDS church is not true which church is. Didn't the Bible predict the apostasy of the Christian faith. These and 34 other questions often posed by Latter Day Saints are addressed in answering Mormons questions published by Kriegel, written by MRM's Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson answering moments questions includes a glossary of Mormon terms and questions for group discussions, answering Mormons questions can be ordered online@mrm.org or at your favorite Christian bookstore ready to give an answer .1 Mormonism program that examines the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from a biblical perspective viewpoint when Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism was Jesus born in Bethlehem or at Jerusalem.

Welcome to this edition of viewpoint on Mormonism on your host, Bill McKeever, founder and director Mormonism research ministry with me today to discuss this question, is my colleague Eric Johnson. This is been a controversy in the Mormon church. I should say it's a controversy really specifically dealing with the book of Mormon before we get into this, we want to just say we at MRM do not believe the book of Mormon was the result of ancient gold plates. We don't believe it's ancient Scripture. We don't believe it was translated by the gift and power of God. We believe for the most part you could say that the book of Mormon is 1/19 century novel and not even a very good one at that, but still it is a book that Mormons do believe the Scripture.

They believe that it was translated by the gift and power of God and we have to assume that if it's a book that talks about real people, real history that it has to be somewhat accurate when it comes to that history. There's a controversial passage in the book of Mormon that's found in the book of Alma. It's Elma 710 it says, and behold, he shall be born of Mary at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers.

She being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and conceived by the power of the Holy Ghost and bring forth a son, yea, even the son of God. Now why would it say that why would it say that Jesus will be born of Mary at Jerusalem. Now if you were to listen. The Mormon apologist and by all means I would hope you would go to the Neal Maxwell Institute or go to the videos that the farms group, now known as the Maxwell Institute have posted.

They have a video on here showing Dr. Daniel Peterson is arguing against some of the criticisms that were going to raise in this next broadcast yet specifically that videos are unfair. LDS.org and say can go on there and just type in on the seventh, seven, 10, and you can actually go and watch this two minute video we want you to go to it. Please go to it and you notice something, there's Dr. Peterson defending this position and there's another gentleman that's in the video carry shirts which I was surprised to see Kerry shirts there because Kerry shirts is no longer a Mormon. He's not even a believer in anything anymore. Sounds like he's gone and drifted off into agnosticism. But he is still featured in here defending the book of Mormon position. I would be curious to know what his position is on it. Now that he's outside of the LDS church, but we are encouraging you to do that with the height here but working to present some evidence that I think is been overlooked by the people at the Neal Maxwell Institute and which are not going to hear in response on the video regarding Elma 710 working to put an article on our front page of MRM this week. You can actually access it and were going to go ahead and link the fair LDS video. Let's go ahead and link that saw you to do is go on our website go under MRM.org it's Kenny\Jerusalem and will have a link there going straight to that.

So you can watch that to be able to familiarize yourself with their argument that we should also mention that a lot of what were going to be saying comes from those articles. This is not new stuff. This article is these articles have been posted for several years now. In fact, when the people at farms at that time, critique, something that we did a long time ago on this very issue. We were actually being taunted by one of their guys who by the way, is featured in that video saying where's your response. Where's your response and I didn't respond right away either the things to do.

Will we finally did respond we heard nothing we heard nothing at all from any of these apologist and amazing there's still using a lot of these bad arguments to try to defend the Elma seven, seven, 10 position by using phrases that are even founder using a phrase I should say that is not even found in Elma 710 and that's what we want to talk about. First of all, let's explain here when Joseph Smith implies that Jesus will be born of Mary at Jerusalem, I would say I think that's just a slip of the pen that we talked about this many times is that if you were to ask most people about Israel if there's any one city that they know about Israel is probably going to be Junior that's a prominent city. It's not that Joseph Smith probably did not know about Bethlehem.

I'm sure he did, but I look at this as merely being a slip of the pen. I said that for many years and because it's a slip of the pan.

I would say it's not that big of a deal. I wouldn't even make so much of this if it wasn't for the fact that Mormon apologist have made a huge deal out of this.

Why I think they realize that if in fact the book of Mormon is trying to imply that Jesus was born in the city of Jerusalem. They recognize that this is a huge mistake a huge mistake.

We would have to assume first of all, that that's what's implying that it can't be that the word Jerusalem is wrong that it should have said Bethlehem in the first place because remember how Joseph Smith allegedly translated the plates he's looking at a magic rock and a hat and he's reading these characters off of the rock to the scribe and the scribe must read it back and once it's correct. He goes on to the next set of characters so we have to assume that the phrase at Jerusalem was on the rock that Joseph Smith was reading the Mormon apologist look at this as a feather in the cap. All this proves that Joseph Smith was a prophet because using a phrase that was not very well known and they say that the phrase was the land of Jerusalem. The problem folks is Elma 710 doesn't use the phrase the land of Jerusalem. And yet, that seems to be where these guys always want to go argue look at the phrase land of Jerusalem land of Jerusalem. It's not in Elma 710.

That's the problem. So there arguing for something that's not even in the text. It is not even something that were really even raising they are raising this issue. Why, I don't know doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, since that is not a phrase that used in Elma 710. One of the issues that seems to be brought up that I think for most is this idea that it would be silly to think that Joseph Smith made this air. This is what Daniel Peterson BYU professor said. He pointed out the quote unquote absurdity of this argument, but when he says this to suggest that Joseph Smith knew the precise location of Jesus's baptism by John, but hadn't a clue about the famous town of Christ's birth is so in improbable as to be ludicrous to the skeptics seriously mean to suggest that the book of Mormon's Bible drenched author or authors miss one of the most obvious facts about the most popular story in the Bible, something known to every child in Christmas Carol or do they intend to say that a clever fraud who could write a book displaying so wide an array of subtly authentic near Eastern and biblical cultural and literary traits is the book of Mormon does was nonetheless. So stupid as to claim before Bible reading public that Jesus was born in the city of Jerusalem as one anti-Mormon author has pointed out every schoolboy in school girl knows Christ was born in Bethlehem, exactly, it is virtually certain, therefore, that almost 710 was foreign to Joseph Smith's preconceptions the land of Jerusalem is not the sort of thing.

The prophet would likely have invented precisely for the same reason it bothers uninformed critics of the book of Mormon uninformed critics. Well first of all let me just answer Dr. Peterson's questions. No, that's not what were saying we are not saying that Joseph Smith was that stupid. It was a simple mistake. That's my opinion. I'm admitting that that's our opinion, it was a simple mistake is Peterson correct in thinking that no one could make such a mistake like that. There's were we have a pride because when we look at even a manual that was produced by the LDS church or was a committee within the LDS church to put together this manual, co-gospel lessons for the Lamanite people. If you look at that.

It says in the manual gospel lessons for the Lamanite people.

This came out in 1966. If you want to see a copy of it. They have one at the Harold B.

Lee library down in Provo at BYU gospel lesson for the Lamanite people. It reads on page 2 of lesson five.

This is what it says.

Folks Nephi lived in America at the time Jesus was born across the ocean in Jerusalem. Now they could be so as much as Dr. Peterson is stupid and so stupid as to do. That's a common mistake if you go out on the streets of anywhere on a curve at Salt Lake City or Los Angeles and you ask people where was Jesus born, I am going to guarantee at least 20 to 30% are going to say Jerusalem. Bethlehem certainly is in the him. It certainly thought of by many biblically literate people, but for many who are not literate in the things of the Bible there and make that common mistake as a committee from the church did back in the 1960s, but let it be know folks we had MRM will think Joseph Smith was stupid in saying that not saying that at all is a mistake so that argument that is being raised really is irrelevant to what we are trying to bring out here that mistake be made. Of course we just thought in a church manual that was published back in 1966. Let me show you another one in their commentary on the book of Mormon, volume 3, page 133, George Reynolds and John John R JA and NEM Swedish same name as it was so tall I think is how he pronounced it. This is what they say. Elma's prophecy is a grand supplement of Benjamin's prediction. Both prophets testified that the Lord, Israel's Messiah, at no far distant time would come to redeem his people. Their prophecies were fulfilled. Not long after, when Jesus the son of God was born in Jerusalem, the land of our forefathers.

Do you see what happened here folks. They didn't say was born at Jerusalem, the land of our forefathers which would've been much closer to Elma 710 it says in Jerusalem, which is a complete contradiction between Micah 52 and what it says in Matthew where Jesus was born he was not born in Jerusalem. No, it was a simple mistake and we understand that to be a simple mistake. I would not say that these two commentators were so stupid as to make that statement so there is an error. We all make them were not making the big issue out of this Mormon apologist had made the big issue out of this.

They have to because they have to somehow defend Joseph Smith's calling as a prophet and of course the authenticity of the book of Mormon and you made a great point at the beginning of the show that Joseph Smith supposedly received this in a word for word, and so this is I think a bigger issue than we really want to make it, but I think we should make it since they are so adamant on defending this mistake were basically saying that a filthiest polyp apologist want to reject the notion that let's say Reynolds and Soto made a mistake. We would hope that they would at least be honest enough to concede that the phrase land of our forefathers were born at Jerusalem is a direct reference to the city of Jerusalem and were going to make that case in the coming days. Thank you for listening you would like more information regarding this research ministry. We encourage you to visit our website www.mrm.org you can request a free newsletter Mormonism research. We hope you will join us again as we look at another viewpoint is holistic Mormonism research one wish you and yours and Julia's Christmas season. As we remember the miraculous birth of our Lord Jesus Christ came into this world to save his people from their sins viewpoint and Mormonism has been a blessing to you which you considering generous hearing gift to help further the efforts of Mormonism research ministry at your tax-deductible gift. MRM is very much appreciated and we humbly think your kind support