God Loves Mormons Videos: The Great Apostasy

Answering Mormons questions by Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson deals with 36 commonly asked questions by your LDS friends and neighbors. It's a great resource for Christians want to share their faith with friends and loved ones. Be sure to pick up your copy today at your favorite Christian bookstore viewpoint on Mormonism program that examines the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from a biblical perspective viewpoint when Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism are the most foundational beliefs of the church great church claims that the keys of the priesthood conferred on the first apostles by Jesus were lost from the earth sometime shortly after the this means that for many centuries.

There was no priesthood authority on earth to exercise and pass along the most important aspects of the Christian Mormons believe that that authority was finally restored upon this by God through a young Joseph Smith early 1800s, the LDS church that is considered to be a restoration of the things lost during that period.

So the great apostasy is an essential belief in Mormonism because there would be no justification or restoration of anything that wasn't lost in the first place.

The simple truth is, there was no rate voice, he gestured was Rich Sanford, one of the producers of a number of videos that can be found in God loves.com the great apostasy that's were going to talk about today. Welcome to this edition of viewpoint on Mormonism.

I'm your host, Bill McKeever, founder director Mormonism research ministry and with me today is Eric Johnson. My colleague at MRM, but we also have Rich Sanford and Bradley Campbell to Matt that have put together a number of excellent videos dealing with the theology and history of the LDS church today with a historical subject and that is this great apostasy because if there was no great apostasy. According to the context of Mormonism. There would be no need for the Mormon church to exist. This, as I mentioned, is one of many videos that you have put together and I wish we could go through all of them is thousands of them out there and we really want to bring attention to what you have put together because they are very very good. Very well done videos but the great apostasy talk about that. This is one of those things that I think is such a bottleneck for Mormonism you to set it right there. There's an assumption oftentimes were talking the people on the street that we must be in agreement that for 1400+ years of Christian history.

Everything was underwater that that authority was gone that there was no true church here.

I'm amazed at how often that a Mormon assumes that I as an evangelical Christian think that and so I often times when I realize in the conversation that a person is introducing release.

Drawing upon that assumption I go you know that the Bible would teach us that there would be no great apostasy.

Often times the. The first response is shocked that they've never heard of somebody introduce that for them and I try to trace it back to that because there be no justification for a restoration of the gospel. But just as you set it there was no great apostasy, and oftentimes introduce the topic bite by saying first you know that we do not believe that there ever was a great apostasy.

In fact, Jesus made it clear that the Christians in the Bible should never expect a great apostasy and usually I'll bring in a Matthew 13 that's the place and I'll go to the kingdom building parables when talking to someone demonstrate the attitude Jesus had towards the church. He was establishing people are often shocked to see you when you just read through some of the parables in Matthew 13 I just walk through Bible open verse by verse, a little Jesus said he he seemed to say that this this small mustard seed going to grow and grow and grow, it's like to grow for you know couple decades and then die and stay dead for hundreds of years and then start over again. Jesus is expecting a consistent growth of this mustard seed and the wheat and the terrace and the will of the leaven that you mixed way through through all of and so yeah I think when you demonstrate that to a person hope so.

This is one of those times right literally do is open the Bible to Matthew 13 and Mike started Matthew 16 and in and read through the establishment of the church and I usually don't even get caught up into what is the rock is the rock Peter is the rock of the gospel or is the rock Revelation. I usually just can't let that one go for that moment.

It's okay, irrespective of what the rock was upon which she's got a build a church who builds the church in every version went about their view, their hold is about that rock is its Jesus says I will build my church, and they will never be any problems.

No reason, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. The point of Jesus introduction here is that as the church comes into being his expectation is there's going to be great controversy. There's going to be a great conflict for the church and yet in the greatest face of conflict.

It's not going to fail it will do what it's supposed to do its will succeed in on that. I usually Matthew 13 I read those verses, so the wheat and the tares and how both the wheat and the weeds of the tears grow together and the master who owns those the fields don't pull out the terrace yet let them both grow together till the end and then we will reap a harvest at that point there will be a distinguishing between those two parts and leaven of the brightest dental utility working even when you don't see it. I think one of the great excuses of this whole great apostasy theory is the Mormon people don't feel like they are obligated to explain to us why there is such a difference between what they believe in their basic doctrines and what early Christians had always believed the point that I'm trying to make here is they will often insist that theirs is a restoration but yet when you look at what they believe. We can't find anywhere in the early Christian church that any of those things were ever taught or believed and how can you have a restoration if you can't find some kind of a pedigree that supports that meeting to be brought back. Do you ever find yourself getting the debt conversation with Latter Day Saints defusing assumption that the expectation affect. We sometimes get in the parts of the history like why you think historically that happened like what historical data points you have for that and again most of our conversations are street-level people talking people who may not thought through all the stuff the whole lot of work. Sometimes even ask who told you where did you learn that all Christianity was a great apostasy when you learn and they and Emily Sable my Mormon family or Bishop or cynical. That's because they're motivated to tell you there is a need for the Mormon church that's not the even Protestants in the great Protestant Reformation did not go. The church is gone no authority left. We must restore was not there there thinking was a correction I Reformation was already present. Think they came out of the Catholic Church and and sought to hold true to doctrine, even up until death that's that's the history of Christianity.

How do you guys feel about church history and the knowledge of that to be able to help support the idea.

There was no great apostasy. And what I mean by that. For instance, is when you asked somebody what he what you say is the mark of the apostasy and oftentimes mention Constantine and the Council of Nicaea which took place in 325 but I would like to ask them what did they know about that and I'll come up with all kinds of things. How you deal with the church history part personally.

Most of the time, street-level conversation, I will encourage them to investigate that. I will say I don't think that you're thinking about that is correct especially the Council of Nicaea that comes up at a time with questions of canonicity in the Bible and preservation of the text not and it's just not just plain not trim you can you can go ahead and read Alma came out of the Council of Nicaea is only Google that really very rarely, if I say I don't think that's correct.

Have you ever looked into that encourage you to just do a simple Google search.

When you get home. Just look it up and take take an hour and read through some of that I very rarely have someone push back and say no that's not true. It's definitely and there are videos of course are like lecture style. What were your delivering information in it were not discoursing. We typically do this just be questioning people and so I'll try to probe almost immediately what they think like why do you think that OT protect from Mormons. Did you ever hear that outside of Mormonism is anyone as any other non-Mormon told you that maybe should consider that what do you think happened at the Council of Nicaea. Can you name one person that was, but was there like all-stars do that just to kind of test in the sheepishly go well no I think you might not understand what happened there something worth worth chasing out for yourself. But as relates to the Bible, the believers.

They are expected and age of unprecedented Christian growth in the face of opposition. Those two things are promised. The church is going to grow and it's going to be bad for you and people will die before they will relent and let go of the gospel. Paul says let me be accursed if I upon apostles are preaching the gospel commends the church to to test things like the, the Parisians against the word of God. All these references in the New Testament to our being careful about false teachers is that we would have a preservation of the text that we have a preservation of what is true of all even rights and in verse 20 and 11 is admonishing the church for for some of its practices with communion and he says I believe there some division here.

I believe it in part, he was but there must be factions amongst you, so that those who are genuine amongst you might be recognized. Paul already anticipated that they're going have to be church splits for the preservation of the gospel sake.

And that's what we do.

Certainly finding church history. This is even hard to find a secular Google can find this out for us and I think that illustrates this might sound a little bit harsh. If we have Latter Day Saints listening today but I find that many times they are lazy and will not take the time to support what they believe, from any type of credible sources other than as you say. Well I heard it from another Latter Day Saints or maybe my bishop said this from the pulpit or or or maybe I heard something like this in general conference. It's too easy now to find the answers to these. It's too easy to know exactly.

For instance, with the Council of Nicaea was all about what the issues were, who the players were you're really without excuse. Nowadays it's just too easy but yet we still hear Latter Day Saints giving us these tired old explanations which are said Bradley are just outright false. So we do need to encourage early as friends to look into these any last thoughts in the segment.

This is an interesting doctrine for us to talk with Latter Day Saints and conversation because many have an impulse right now to not judge, especially Christians, but others outside their fate that a lot younger. Mormons feel very uncomfortable about this and so when we talk about the doctrine of the great apostasy.

It's interesting. One week we point out the fact that the great apostasy is essentially saying that all Christians in the world believe abominable untrue things about God.

So much so that there needed to be restoration of those things is not in inclusion that Mormons are now a part of Christianity may be a holier sect, but that we ought not even be called Christians and when I bring that into the conversation often elicits a pretty sheepish response because they realize I guess it is pretty judgmental of your views for us to think like this sometimes that just kind of helps put the conversation a different plane were there almost feeling apologetic for that. I don't care. But the apology perhaps it might help soften the mind and the heart to consider that may be may be something you guys believe could be valid as well. I think you raise an excellent point because often times when we are talking to Latter Day Saints. The very fact that we are questioning what they believe is sometimes misinterpreted as some kind of persecution we been talking to Bradley Campbell and Rich Sanford. They are the producers of several videos dealing with the subject of Mormonism and they can be found@godlovesmormons.com. Thank you for listening. If you would like more information regarding his research ministry.

We encourage you to visit our website www.mrm.org you can request a free newsletter Mormonism research.

We hope you'll join us again as we look at another viewpoint is pastor. Could your congregation benefit from a presentation that explains the differences between Mormonism and New Testament Christianity MRM's Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson would be honored to come to your church, whether it's a single crash course or we can symposium hundreds of churches have benefited from their fully documented and easy to understand PowerPoint presentations you like to schedule MRM at your church. Simply write us at contact@mrm.org again that's contact MRM.org