Christmas Gifts God Part 2

Point is to examine the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from a viewpoint when Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism. So glad you agree with us for this edition of viewpoint on Mormonism.

I'm your host, Bill McKeever, founder and director Mormonism research ministry and with me today is Eric Johnson. My colleague at MRM we continue our look at some of the various books that were given away as Christmas gifts by the first presidency for number of years. Clear up to the year 2017. The church leadership would give away various books in a leather bound addition many times with gold edging coming beautiful books are coming they did they really are beautiful books and they would give them away as Christmas gifts and the question were asking is this, do you really think that the first presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints would give away books that they felt taught things that were not true will of course they wouldn't and so were going through some of these books to show what these had in them and then asking the question, is this really Christianity is this really what most Mormons really want to believe and I think those are fair questions.

The fact that the first presidency seems to stand behind these books and the contents of those books would seem to tell me Eric that this information is fair game. When we are having conversations with her LDS friends.

We talked about this earlier in the week about the importance of using the actual citations of the leaders because a latter-day St. may come up with his own opinion of what he or she believes and that's fine they can believe whatever they want, but if what they're saying is, Mormonism doesn't go in line with what these leaders are teaching, then it's not the pure form of Mormonism that I think this is the reason why we like to use original quotes from your book in their own words and now were calling these these quotes from the different books 37 different volumes that they have and trying to understand what does Mormonism teach if they did not believe the first pregnancy did not believe that these words found in these books are true, then they wouldn't have handed them to the general authorities and other employees so these are important boxes.

So for us doing this series is helping us to understand what Mormonism teaches and then finding out if what it says is true is really conforming to what the Bible says is true.

Not one of the books that was given to the general authorities as well as employees in the church was a book titled discourses of Wilford Woodruff. This was given as a gift by the first presidency for Christmas of 1997 and I've got to tell you Eric. I'm kinda surprised that they would include this book. Among all the many others because there are some controversial statements found in this book and we want to look at one of them right now as this one is found on page 3 of the discourses of Wilford Woodruff God is increasing in knowledge. If there was a point where man in his progression could not proceed any further. The very idea I would throw a gloom over every intelligent and reflecting mine. God himself is increasing and progressing in knowledge power and dominion, and will do so worlds without end.

It is just so with us.

We are in a probation which is the school of experience. Now notice what he says here folks know you've got to remember Wilford Woodruff was the fourth president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints when he says God is progressing in knowledge that's not really some original idea just with Wilford Woodruff. Brigham Young taught basically the same thing.

Both of these men believe that God himself was going to increase in how much he knew as time would go on. But what I find fascinating though Eric is not only did they give away the discourses of Wilford Woodruff but they also gave away as a gift for Christmas selections from doctrines of salvation now doctrines of salvation first came out as a three volume set by the 10th president of the church. Joseph Fielding Smith and even though this is just selections from the doctrines of salvation and there are three volume set in the original series. So what they have put together in one volume. They were unable to include everything look at what they included you just read the statement by Wilford Woodruff saying that God is increasing in knowledge. I want to read you would Joseph Fielding Smith the 10th president of the church said and its included in another book that was given away as a Christmas gift, selections from doctrines of salvation I'm reading from page 6 how God does not progress is the subheading false notions about God's progression. It seems very strange to me that members of the church will hold onto the doctrine that God increases in knowledge as time goes on, or that they can believe is a recently published article says if absolute perfection were attainable. There would eventually come a time when those who had chosen the better way would reach the ultimate and if the ultimate could be gained progression would cease. This cannot be for as before specified.

Nothing in nature remains at a standstill when progression abdicates the throne.

Retro aggression is the degrading successor. He goes on to say in the This is found on page 7. But how does anyone know where has the Lord ever revealed to us that he is lacking in knowledge that he is still learning new truth discovering new laws that are unknown to him. I think this kind of doctrine is very dangerous.

I don't know where the Lord has ever declared such a thing. It is not contained in any revelation that I have read man's opinion unaided by the revelations of the Lord does not make it so, and it has in brackets that this came from doctrines of salvation volume 1, pages seven and eight. Did you catch what Joseph Fielding Smith said in these two paragraphs. He flat out contradicts what Wilford Woodruff taught in the discourses of Wilford Woodruff on page 3 a book that the first presidency gave as a gift for Christmas. They also gave selections from the doctrines of salvation as a gift for Christmas as well but yet what Wilford Woodruff is teaching in the discourses of Wilford Woodruff certainly does not line up with what Joseph Fielding Smith says on page 6 and seven of the book selections from doctrines of salvation so the question then becomes, what is a Mormon supposed to believe. Do you believe Wilford Woodruff the fourth president of the church or do you believe Joseph Fielding Smith the 10th president of the church before you answer, don't forget Brigham Young agreed with Wilford Woodruff.

So right there you get to profits saying God does increasing knowledge against Joseph Fielding Smith who said God does not increase the knowledge. In fact, he said I don't know where the Lord is ever declared such a thing. It is not declared in any revelation that I have read will wait a minute, Mr. Smith wouldn't this teaching by Wilford Woodruff come across as a type of revelation, did the first presidency's who gave away these books had they even read these books did they even know what was in them. They sound good. I mean, they're using all of the different profits.

The only profit that did not have a book in there is the 17 president of the church, Russell M. Nelson. So if there recommending these books by printing them in leather and then offering them to people to read and if somebody does take the cellophane off of both of these books and if they're paying any attention. Are they going to be able to understand what is truth that is the question we been asking all week and this is an important question either God progresses the knowledge or he does not progress in knowledge. You can't have it both ways, the law of non-contradiction does not allow you to have something that is a and nine a at the same time and yet definitely this is a contradiction I don't know how you can explain this away between what Wilford Woodruff taught and what Joseph Fielding Smith is teaching in this book.

Here, but I am kind of surprised that that was able to slip through. You would think if they're going to do the discourses of Wilford Woodruff or the selections from Joseph Fielding Smith that someone should have seen that and clipped at least one of them or maybe even both of them, but that didn't happen. Somehow it got through the editor and this contradiction is just sitting here glaring at us again. We have to ask the question what you do as a Latter Day Saints with these two statements because they don't agree with each other which profit are we supposed to believe another quote I want to bring up this is from the same book you're reading from Joseph Fielding Smith the selections doctrines of salvation and this is what he says on page 11 how God is from eternity to eternity.

However, the thing that seem so puzzling is a statement that God is the same yesterday today and forever. And that's a quote out of Hebrews that he is from all eternity to all eternity. And that's a citation of Psalm chapter 9 verse two well is not this true and is there any conflict with the thought that he is passed through the same states that we are destined to do from eternity to eternity means from the spirit existence through the probation which we are in, and then back again to the eternal existence which will follow the problem, of course, without explanation given by Joseph Fielding Smith is, you're not going to find any anywhere in the Bible where that kind of an explanation is given when it comes to the phrase from all eternity to all eternity. When it speaks of God's eternal illness. For instance, in Psalm 90 verse two that, from everlasting to everlasting you are God it. Speaking of eternity past, going into eternity future. There's no notion in there to tell us that somehow this is talking about the law of eternal progression in the different stages that a human goes through in order to eventually reach that hopeful exultation that Mormons are often seeking. In other words, he has to take a more modern doctrine of Mormonism and try to insert it in the text when that was never understood to mean what he is saying it might be a clever way to explain away Moron I ate a team because a Moron I eat 18 it teaches exactly the same thing is Psalm 90 verse two that I just cited to you, but they can't stick to that understanding because if you're going to say that God was once a man has Joseph Smith taught how can you also teach that he was eternally God. You can't do that. So they have to find some clever way of getting away from the clear language of the text in order to give it a meaning that we don't find anyone ever using in the Old Testament or the new. If you're Latter Day Saints you to be concerned. I mean just the contradictions we talked about today. The idea of teaching. That's contrary to not only the Bible but the book of Mormon as you pointed out Bill and Moron I ate 18 I would do the same as the first presidency bill and say every Latter Day Saints auto pick up the books that were talking about and they had a read them and they ought to ask themselves is what these men teach true or if it's not true. If it's not true you. You brought up your three questions this past week. What are you willing to do. Are you willing to hold onto something that's not true, or are you willing to get rid of it and I would say the wise move would be to eliminate false teaching and claim the truth. Thank you for listening you would like more information is research ministry. We encourage you to visit our website www.mrm.org you can request a free newsletter Mormonism research.

We hope you will join us again as we look at another viewpoint is in their own words collection of Mormon quotations compiled by women is research ministry. Still McKeever is a valuable resource when wanting to know what Mormon leaders have said on a given topic. Pick up your copy of the Utah lighthouse bookstore MRM.org