Engaging with Mormons (Corey Miller) Part 5

Point: is program that examines the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from a biblical perspective viewpoint when Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism hoping you're having a very pleasant Friday. Welcome to this edition of viewpoint on Mormonism on your host, Bill McKeever, founder and director Mormonism research ministry with me today is Eric Johnson.

My colleague at MRM, but we also have with us and had him all week. Dr. Cory Miller Cory is the author of a book engaging with Mormons. He comes from a former Mormon background. We been talking about how he came out of the LDS church and into Christianity and then involved in a Christian apologetics ministry called Roxio Christie and if you want more information on that organization. You can go to Rashi and Kristi.org. It is a campus apologetics ministry, one that is very needed in our culture today. Welcome back to the show. Cory glad to have you again.

Thanks thank you to be back today.

We really want to focus again on your book. I know we've gotten a little bit sidetracked, but you have a fascinating story and one that I think Christian should be familiar with. So folks, if you have not heard earlier broadcast this week. We encourage you to go to our archives go to MRM.org/podcast and you will have a list of all of our past shows there, and I would strongly encourage you if you did not catch the earlier shows this week to catch up with us on this subject, but Cory pretend you have only 30 seconds to tell potential readers why they ought to pick up your book engaging with Mormons I can get for reasons why it's concise less than hundred 20 pages to its readable publisher made me right at 1415-year-old third laser focused on the essentials of doctrine, God man cry salvation and on the essential of dialogue, the testimony and it's practical that helps understand Mormon sociology and psychology, not just theology and offers practical ways of individually and communally related. I think what a lot of Christians are looking for is not a desire to talk with their Mormon friends because I found that many Christians do want to talk with their LDS acquaintances. They just don't know what to say and they don't want to be caught offguard by a question let's say from the Mormon that they never even heard about or don't know how to answer. I think a book like this is very good because it will give the Christian confidence when engaging their LDS friends and that's certainly important and as I say in the beginning of the book it because you gave me the honor of writing a blurb for this book. It doesn't leave you looking down your nose at Latter Day Saints which we should never do that with anybody really, but sometimes some people can be pretty abrasive with the subject of Mormonism and as you discussed earlier in this week. The LDS people are not our enemies are not our enemies, and we should not look at them that way. I find living here in Utah living among the LDS people I love living among them. For the most part they're good people that are trying very hard to be as good as they possibly can be. Because let's face it, the religion requires that if they hope to get the best of which is the celestial exultation that many of them seek Cory a Mormon might be listening to us right now and they're going to assume that your book about engaging Mormons is anti-Mormon quote unquote anti-Mormon because your ultimate goal is to have Mormons leave their faith. How are you going to counter the accusation that this is an anti-Mormon book.

Well, they would have to read it to see that it's not I can assert that I'm certainly not anti-Mormon. I and Mormonism because I love Mormons.

I'm compelled to speak truth and what loved wills the good of the other, and delete any lifestyle any behavior is harmful to a loved one. If you think it's harmful. It compels confronting the heart. You can speak the truth without love, but you cannot love without speaking the truth I love more and out before the morning and gets upset he or she should consider that my presentation in the book is fundamentally no different than tens of thousands of LDS missionaries presenting and people times missionary discussion number one begins by creating the need for living profit on the assumption that all these other Christian groups are affected.

On page 94 car you write something very interesting about the LDS leaders who disagree with each other in his is what you say quote can we really have a testimony that has faith in living prophets who are irrational and dangerous. What is the point of having living profits if they cannot agree on important and essential matters.

Remember, these are not secondary issues equivalent to ones upon which evangelicals might legitimately disagree these are the fundamental questions about who God is." You tell us about an important and essential doctrine that cannot be reconciled between Mormonism and biblical Christianity. Again, these are not expected Mormon leaders to know how to poach an egg or fly rocket married in Milan. I know do they know how to tell me about God and salvation. The terms that I used irrational and dangerous are actual verbatim words used by some Mormon prophets are apostles that they used against their former Mormon prophets are apostles with his views about God were a bit more than disagreeable.

Their words against their prophetic lineage that would they work their words, not mine. But since they can't seem to agree.

And since their novel Revelation is allegedly built on the Bible doctrines between the two religions that can't be reconciled are doctrines of God in salvation. These are essentials that are not nonessential in the morning. God has more in common with the objects directly in front of the eyes of your listeners are the objects of smell, or sound or touch Mormon God is finite in every conceivable way, except perhaps existence in some kind of opaque way is eternal spirit matter, whatever that is more in common with most finite changing objects and with addendum does with the Christian God as well as the Jewish and Muslim concepts of God and I can say the same thing about salvation than I do in the book. The problem I have with the God of Mormonism is Joseph Smith and those who came after him have made their God nothing more than a big one of us that doesn't really appeal to me as a Christian, naturally surprised that it doesn't seem to shock more Latter Day Saints when they come to that conclusion. In fact I find in discussing this with some Latter Day Saints that they actually find that comforting that for instance there God could have been a sinner before he became God and that makes them feel good because they know their sinners to but they seem to miss the boat here.

If there God was in fact a sinner before he became God then who is he to tell us not to be sinners defined to be problematic. Yeah it is a problem is why I think a lot of Mormons just tend to incline themselves to the idea as I repeated as a Mormon child that God try try your best and God will make up the rest. There was no real urgency to repent and to see the grace of God for what it is because I never saw myself as that big of a sinner.

Everybody stands including.not now but that right and if and if he's like us then, but that makes me feel real good. When a Christian presents an all holy God, the one that is described in the Bible. You would think that would shock some of them into seeing the reality that there is in fact a huge difference between there God in the God of the Bible. How many times have I had conversations with Mormons, and they want to insist that our God is the same hour. Jesus is the same but yet it's been Mormon leaders themselves that have said no, that's not true they're not the same.

To be honest with you Cory, I get a little bit irritated when I see Christian scholars writing articles or even books trying to say that the Jesus of Mormonism.

For instance, is really the Jesus of New Testament Christianity, when I've talked to former Mormons who came to the conclusion just the opposite of that.

That wasn't the same. And that's what drew them to Christianity in the first place that they saw the Jesus they had in mind was not the Jesus of the New Testament. What you say to that, the book of Mormon advertises as another Testament of Jesus Christ.

But I think it really is a testament of another Jesus Christ.

Once you start comparing characteristics or descriptions are attributes of the Mormon version of Jesus versus the Christian or the Mormon view of God versus the Christian you quickly find out that they are not identical. One might be true in the other faults.

Maybe both are false because the contraries rather than contradictory, but they are not the same and so the Mormon should be upset simply because Webster's dictionary says that if you believe in Jesus you are a Christian, we can call our doorknob Jesus, but that doesn't give any saving power and really we need to ask what you mean by belief.

Believe in Jesus from what believe he exists and that certainly doesn't make you a Christian.

I think even that word belief has to be explained even more talking with the Latter Day Saints. I find myself doing that quite often when I hear Latter Day Saints tell me will I believe in Jesus and you say as a Christian, you just have to have faith in Christ will I have that I just have works added on. But I still have that faith. But even then Cory would you agree that's not the same faith.

If your faith includes your works along with a belief in Jesus that he has the ability to save you.

But he's not really saving you right now until after you've accomplished everything you're supposed to do that is true repentance.

Keeping all the commandments.

That's not the same faith that Christians have been instructed in in the New Testament.

So how can we as Christians allow them to make that comparison should we not engage them on that matter to jackets and essential doctrine. You're right on every other doctrine, but you're wrong on the essentials you're on enough to lose your soul. The Bible is clear that if you have a testimony that does not correspond to the testimony of God. First John chapter 5 verse 9 to 13. You're making God out to be a liar if your testimony is such that you don't trust Jesus and him alone hundred percent for your eternal destiny. Then your trusting, to some degree and self. And that's a problem. According the last time we had you on the show you have a tactic where you ask a question, do you have a mom for those listeners today who did not hear that last interview. Could you go through that illustration again just to help them see that they're not the same concept I say do you have a more and yeah I say no way, have a mom can you spell that MOM spell it backwards.

MOM spell it brother just because we spell a turn this thing doesn't mean it's the same harassment because I spell JES US. Jesus doesn't mean it's the same Jesus GLD God doesn't manage the same God.

We can talk to Dr. Cory Miller is a form of Mormon grew up as 1/7 generation latter-day St. before coming to Christ as a teenager. He is currently the CEO of Roxio Christie you can find out more about this organization@roxiochristie.org. It is a campus apologetics industry and you are a Christian parent I would strongly recommend that you check out what Roxio has to say Cory any last words before we finish this week when it comes to Mormons. We need to remember not the bash or the – approach but maybe something like think about – weeping and gnashing their teeth. These are people that Christ died for them. We should be willing to go for the map and open our doors take the time it takes to prepare to get to know them to get to know some essentials of Mormonism for dialogue and be able to share the love of Christ with the book is titled engaging with Mormons. You can find out more about it at the good book.calm the good book.com. It's also available. Of course, on Amazon.com, but Cory thank you so much for being with us this week and explaining your passion for the LDS people as well as your passion for the secular universities. Thanks for coming on for you guys. Thank you for listening. If you would like more information and research ministry. We encourage you to visit our website at www.mrm.org you can request a free newsletter Mormonism research.

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