The Virgin Birth Part 5

.1 Mormonism examines the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from a viewpoint when Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect.

And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism what the Mormon apostle Bruce McConkie teach regarding the incarnation of Jesus Christ. Welcome to this additional viewpoint on Mormonism on your host, Bill McKeever, founder and director Mormonism research ministry and with me to discuss this topic is Aaron shuffle Wallace.

My colleague at MRM quick recap.

The main issues that Mormon leaders have taught that God the father condescended and had physical sexual relations with Mary in order to conceive Jesus and this issue steak that continues to be an issue. Although you can't stereotype Mormons is believing it. The first quote working to get into is this one made by Bruce McConkie is found in Mormon doctrine, page 155, but I might also mention it was also reprinted in the book of Mormon gospel doctrine teachers manual of 1999.

So this is a correlated manual which is produced under the auspices of the first presidency.

So we have to assume that the first presidency, though they may not know it's in there. They should know it's in there and this is a manual that goes out to members of the LDS church, and it is assumed that they are to believe it to be teaching college students high schools in the condescension of God, meaning the father consists in the fact that he became the personal and literal father of a mortal offspring born of mortal woman in the sky goes along some of the other statements that we have been discussing as well, but in Mormon doctrine, page 547 it says Christ was begotten by an immortal father in the same way that mortal man are begotten by mortal fathers. Any comment on their early bentonite at that's for just general teaching is not just for okay okay were the same way that they were Jesus was begotten the same way that all other children are begotten with the normal natural commonly understood way that children are begotten corrects the copulation. It's the it's the intercourse mean to be blunt. One of the reasons why this is an additional reason why this is important – is that Mormon apologists say will maybe what these Mormon leaders meant was artificial human insemination of intercourse is absurd to think that a person like Brigham Young would be thinking that when he made his, product how much I think reading McConkie here. Yeah, I would agree because McConkie goes on to make it very clear what he's talking about another statement by Bruce McConkie, and Christ was born into the world as the literal son of this holy being. He was born in the same personal real and literal sense that any mortal man is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity. He was begotten conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events, for he is the son of God, and that designation means what it says this is in Mormon doctrine seven that the lightness in the strength of his language is really important.

One thing we should point out is that some Mormons say will maybe what these leaders meant was that it some sort of spiritual equivalent to physical intercourse will McConkie here says no not figurative.

It's very literal is the natural course of events. Good point. In his book doctrinal New Testament commentary, volume 1, page 144 McConkie says Jesus was begotten by his father as literally as he was conceived by his mother, literally. Again, your aegis mention how this is a figurative. This is supposed to be understood to be literal in the doctrinal New Testament commentary, volume 3, page 141 McConkie says begotten means begotten know it needs its artificial insemination.

Let's also want us to believe rightist (Farms wants us to. Yeah it seems that this is was so frustrating with dealing with some of these apologists about this issue because they want to completely ignore the actual words that were used by the people that are doing the speaking here. They want to deconstruct what they've actually said to give the impression that they really weren't saying what we think they said, or know they said that and if you're latter-day St. listening you have to deal with the statements. This is one of your apostles that you're saying that McConkie was out to lunch. Well them out.

What other Mormon apostles are out to lunch.

Why should we take them seriously exactly begotten means begotten, begotten, means begotten that means Christ, mortal body was procreated by an internal sire. It means God is the father of of Christ after the manner of the flesh, and that phrase after the manner of the flesh is a distinguishing phrase that separates Jesus's incarnation from all the rest, God the father actually had a personal investment in this incarnation of Jesus, one that he does not have with the rest of humankind. So that's a common expression that you here with the referring to Jesus's birth and conception we find also in the promised Messiah. Page 466 and we discussed this in the past broadcast how McConkie actually redefines what a virgin birth really is yes.

The next time a Mormon neighbor, Armand spokesman says we believe in the virgin birth. You probably should probe deeper here asking a follow-up questions because what those battery because what he's going to do is very typical. He's going to use an expression that is familiar with most people, especially Christian people dealing with this issue, but he's going to he's going to demonstrate that he is redefining this so he can still use the phrase, but it doesn't necessarily mean he means it the same way that UNI would understand. He says this on page 466, the promised Messiah for our present purposes. Suffice it to say that our Lord was born of a virgin, which is fitting and proper, and also natural since the father of the child was an immortal being right that you know it's interesting is that McConkie feels the need to define virgin as never having had relations with that with a mortal man but yes McConkie by all the statements really did somehow mean that the father exercise assertive human artificial insemination and if he really did believe the father never had relations with Mary that he could have easily extended his definition of virgin to encompass never had relations with an immortal man getting back to something he said there earlier in about this way of a spiritualizing or giving it a whole different kind of connotation. McConkie denies this. He says there is no need to spiritualize away the plain meaning of the Scriptures. There is nothing figurative or hidden or beyond comprehension in our Lord's coming into mortality. He is the son of God in the same sense in a way that we are the sons of mortal fathers. It is just that simple. Christ was born of Mary, he is the son of God the only begotten of the father that's found promised Messiah. Page 468. Another comment by Bruce McConkie and this is found in the moral Messiah. Volume 1, page 314. It's also found in the book of Mormon seminary students study guide 2000, page 22, and it's also found in the doctrinal commentary on the book of Mormon volume 1, page 78 which was co-authored by Bruce McConkie, son Joseph Fielding McConkie and Robert Millet who is a BYU professor Mormon apologists.

This is what it says to condescend is literally to go down among the condescension of God lies in the fact that he and exalted being steps down from his eternal throne to become the father of a mortal son, a son born again using the phrase after the manner of the flesh, so he's not remotely exercise in performing some sort of artificial insemination. This is he's condescending. He's going in the very presence of Mary and GE Jesus is being conceived after the manner of the flashlight McConkie said earlier, if not figurative literal natural course of events that and again if if you have a cutter previous broadcast of this. We keep harping on this artificial insemination thing because we have actually heard Mormons use that as a kind of rebuttal to soften what these guys are actually saying to make it sound like it could not have been an actual sex act that could have been done and another means. And certainly what we're seeing here is that cannot be the case.

That's not a good rebuttal for more than to give going on McConkie in his book the moral Messiah. Volume 1, page 314 to 315 he says this without overstepping the bounds of propriety by saying more than is appropriate, let us say this God the Almighty, who once dwelt on an earth of his own and has now ascended the throne of eternal power to rain and everlasting glory who has a glorified and exalted body, a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's who reigns in equity and justice over the endless billions of his spirit.

Children who inhabit the world without number that role into being at his at his word. God the Almighty, who is infinite and eternal election. His fathomless wisdom to begin a son and only son, the only begotten in the flesh, God, who is infinite and immortal, condescend to step down from his throne to join with who is finite and mortal in bringing forth after the manner of the flesh. The mortal Messiah, and with all due respect for Mormon listeners, but the dots together here connect the dots you believe you, but your God is with body parts and passions and that he condescended what little you leaders of thought anyway and Donna stereotyped the listeners is believing this but leaders have taught that Jesus was conceived essentially with the body parts and passions of the father affect. They mock the concept of a God who does not have body parts and they mocked the idea that Jesus was conceived by the Holy Ghost, overshadowing Mary and that somehow it is marked as a as though that would be a somehow sufficient explanation of what actually happened that you probably heard Aaron as I have.

Let's Bruce McConkie, you know, I mean in McConkie. I think after he died in Iraq. I remembered I've use this expression. It seemed like that after McConkie died, his body was barely room temperature before there were some Mormons that were starting to distance themselves from his teaching. They didn't do it while he was a lot, but once he's dead as all the sudden that's just Bruce McConkie's opinion. When you claim to be an apostle, you held to a higher degree of accountability.

And Jesus said watch out for false prophets will know them by their fruits. If you're refusing to consider McConkie's fruits in Europe disobeying Jesus. Also, II would suspect suggest that you might not be exhibiting her love for your fellow members in the LDS church. Do you care about what they believed he could, but the honor of Jesus Christ reflected in the beliefs of your fellow members of the LDS church, which have been influenced by people like McConkie who claim to be apostles exactly and I think if you are a Latter Day Saints listening to this, you need to do some serious reflection because this guy really represents you and I'm sure he was sustained by the membership. While he was alive and maybe by you if you were alive during that time. Thank you for listening.

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