The Virgin Birth Part 3

Is there not much of a difference between Mormonism and Christianity will actually despite what many may think the originals and when it comes to the sensitive and even highly charged issue that is eternal ramifications.

The Christian may not know where to turn. Just trying to understand woman's beliefs to be both confusing and frustrating. That's why Mormonism 101 was written a book resourced by Mormonism research ministries Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson contrasts of vital documents such as who is God what is Scripture and how a person is able to go to heaven when the two religions are placed side-by-side differences are. Maybe Mormonism is a tool that will help you better understand the doctrines of your Latter Day Saints friend, family member or coworker even has witnessing tips available to help you in future conversations. Published by Baker books Mormonism 101 is available@mrm.org or ask for it at your favorite Christian bookstore. Always be prepared to give an viewpoint on Mormonism program and examines the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from a biblical perspective viewpoint on Mormonism sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism, the incarnation of Jesus Christ would have Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and its leaders taught on this very issue. Welcome to this edition of viewpoint on Mormonism. I'm your host, Bill McKeever, the founder director Mormonism research ministry and with me today is Aaron shuffle all of my colleague at MRM and we are continuing our discussion Aaron of the incarnation of Jesus and how Mormon leaders of actually describe how this came about as compared to how Christians have historically viewed what is known as the virgin birth and maybe we should explain exactly what we mean by the virgin birth well by virgin birth, and Christianity.

What Rick were really referring to is the birth of Jesus, which did not require a prior physical copulation or sexual intercourse to be for quite explicit, really, that the substance of the virgin birth is the virgin conception and correct where what were really accusing Mormonism as a whole of his having taught among readers that God the father had physical relations, physical sexual relations with Mary and that this idea was taught by many of its leaders. It's recognizes having been taught by at least one modern Mormon apologist, and it's a strain of thought that continues to exist among Mormon. Some Mormon members today and even among Mormon members who don't affirm it. They often will affirm it as acceptable or tolerable as possible say it's a mystery.

Will we don't know if God the father had sexual relations with Matt but anyway, let's get to the breaking" we need to we need to go back to really early years of the Mormon church that I'm not aware. Maybe you are, but I'm not aware of Joseph Smith making any new claims like this. A lot of this seems to go back to Brigham Young and Brigham Young we know is responsible for bringing about some of the more strange doctrines that bother many of us Bible believing Christians.

Even to this day, and what I found. They even bother a lot of Mormons who have never heard of these things these crazy old Brigham Young in the attic yeah yeah he's he's real crazy uncle use bring down whenever you need some kind of authority. Let's look at some of the statements that Brigham Young said. For instance, this is what Brigham Young said in February 8, 1857. He said when the time came that his firstborn, the Savior should come into the world and take a tabernacle. The father came himself and favored that spirit with a tabernacle instead of letting any other man do it. The Savior was begotten by the father of his spirit by the same being who is the father of our spirits and that is all the organic difference between Jesus Christ and you and me another quote. By the way, you can get these@mrm.org/virgin – birth to be read a lot here. The birth of the Savior, bragging rights was as natural as are the births of our children. It was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood and was begotten of the father as we were of our fathers, and that's the key phrase that we would share in the belief that Jesus's birth was natural. Okay Jesus coming through the birth canal and that was natural, but when Brigham Young adds here. He partook of flesh and blood was begotten of his father. As we were of our fathers.

What we have to ask will how are we begotten quote unquote of our fathers, and you got this Mormon doctrine of heavenly father having flesh and bones. Note there is this question probably among Brigham's time how deficient birth happened you know if miracles aren't as we thought they to be what's important is is how were we born.

How were we to come about and we all understand how that happens. Anybody who has had kids knows how that happens and when use use this expression as we were of our fathers, unless he's implying where all the product of a virgin birth which I don't think we are.

What is he saying right.

And keep in mind Mormon apologist say it is older, maybe referring to human artificial insemination and then that's just okay.

Another quote in the father came down and begot him the same as we do now. Same as we do now.

Okay, now let's turn it a little bit because Brigham Young goes off in another direction and some of his his talk, especially in his April 1852 sermon where he introduces for the first time in a general conference. The teaching that Adam is actually God. This is the twist that Brigham Young put on it at that time.

He said what I learned idea Jesus our elder brother was begotten in the flesh, by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our father in heaven now. Let all who may hear these doctrines doctrines Aaron he doesn't say theories have a data by courtesy Adam God-fearing Brigham Young never said let all who hear the speculation yeah the speculations are just my opinions.

He doesn't say that he says now let all who may hear these doctrines pause before they make light of them or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damn nation. Hardly what Stephen Robinson, a BYU professor said that will maybe Brigham was just kidding that that doesn't sound like he's kidding he goes on in another message worked well and that another message is another. In that same message, he goes on to say if the sun was begotten by the Holy Ghost, which of course would be the position of most Bible believing Christians today. It would be very dangerous to baptize and confirm females and give the Holy Ghost to them, lest he should beget children to be palm to pawn the elders out by the people bringing the elders into great difficulty, so let's listen key people missed it. Brigham young taught that Adam of Adam and Eve was heavenly father and one of the extensions of this teaching that really confirms the essence of the Adam God teaching of Brigham is that Brigham teaches that Adam is the one who impregnated Mary really did believe that Adam was heavenly father.

What we find. Brigham Young also saying this in 1866. He says the man, Joseph the husband of Mary did not that we know of have more than one wife.

But Mary the wife of Joseph had another husband on this account. Infidels have called the Savior a basket can I say that on Christian radio. I'm just quoting just according Brigham Young here. This is merely a human opinion upon one of the inscrutable doings of the Almighty that very babe that was cradled in the manger was begotten, not by Joseph the husband of Mary by another being. Do you inquire, by whom he was begotten by God, our heavenly father. The answer may suffice you.

You need never inquire more upon that point.

According to Brigham Young, Heber C.

Kimball another early-morning leader top first presidency under Brigham Young in relation to the way in which I look upon the works of God and his creatures.

I will say that I was naturally begotten, so was my father. And so and also might Savior Jesus Christ, according to the Scriptures. He is the first begotten of his father in the flesh, and there was nothing on natural about it.

Nothing unnatural folks. Now what are you envisioning here nothing unnatural about human artificial insemination. Wouldn't that be a natural right that with the unnatural natural even know about human artificial insemination back then and folks you probably wonder why were laughing about that because we've had so many Mormons try to skirt this issue by implying that that's what it could have been, and really, that is one of the most silliest notion it's not how early-morning leaders that they would not looked at Northway Orson Pratt early-morning leader he taught as God the father beget the fleshly body of Jesus, so he before the world began.

Begotten spirit is the body required an earthly mother so his spirit required a heavenly mother has God associated in the capacity of a husband with an earthly mother.

So also, he associated in the same capacity with a heavenly one. Earthly things be in the likeness of heavenly things and that which is tongue probing the likeness of that which is eternal. In other words, the laws of generation upon the earth or after the order of the lost generation in heaven is just a threat, pointing out that Mary and God the father. According to Orson Pratt are satiating the capacity of husband and wife that Ezra Taft Benson the 13th president of the Mormon church that this the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints proclaims that Jesus Christ is the son of God in the most literal sense the body in which he performed his mission in the flesh was sired by that same holy being.

We worship is God our eternal father. Jesus was not the son of Joseph, nor was he begotten by the Holy Ghost, and he states that quote earlier by saying I am bold to say to you back to the prefaces that wife anyway. Who in their right Christian mind would say that Jesus was sired that the farm term you have something that you would hear someone on a farm saying.

Also interesting is that this quote was requoted in the 2001 December and sign in other words, it's not something that just goes back several decades. It's something that Mormon people today should be listening to because it's in a current publication language that Mormon leaders continue to use her that the quotes of past leaders help perpetuate this traditional belief among Mormons certainly and and as we have been talking about. There are Mormons who certainly are mixed on this Mormons don't agree with these teaching. Some don't seem to have a problem with it but the fact that the Mormon church doesn't come out with an official statement on that I think is very telling. Why don't they. You would think that they would make the matter very clear to their own people. Whether or not it was by a physical impregnation by God the father who has a body of flesh and bones, or it was in fact understood in the traditional way that Christians of oasis, especially upon this Christmas lights. Okay, especially if really have an Italian Square answer them anyway so working to be discussing this again as we go on.

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