Stand on the Rock of Revelation Part 7

.1 Mormonism examined the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from a viewpoint when Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect. And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism.

So glad you could be with us for this edition of viewpoint on Mormonism.

I'm your host, Bill McKeever, founder and director Mormonism research ministry and with me today is Eric Johnson. My colleague at MRM we continue looking at an article that was in the October 2020 & magazine publication put out by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints on a monthly basis. Basically for its adult members. It's an article titled stand on the rock of revelation.

It was originally a devotional message that was given by Elder Lawrence E core bridge emeritus member of the 70, Mr. core bridge is a corporate and business law attorney and this comes from. As I said a devotional address called stand forever that was delivered at Brigham Young University on January 22, 2019 were looking at some of the methods that Mr. core bridge things are important in order to come to what he believes to be truth.

Of course he is a very faithful Latter Day Saints. He already believes that the church is true, he already believes that Joseph Smith is a prophet of God but is encouraging members to be careful when it comes to issues that might cause doubt in their minds regarding those two very important premises that I have just mentioned to you, and so he gives us what he calls the divine method of learning and in yesterday show we went through them. He says there are different methods of learning including the scientific analytical, academic, and divine methods. All four methods are necessary to know the truth. They all begin the same way with the question questions are important, he says, especially the primary questions and again for those who didn't catch yesterday show the four primary questions he lists are is there a God who is our father is Jesus Christ the son of God, the Savior of the world was Joseph Smith the Prophet and is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, the kingdom of God. I think I mentioned this yesterday that he undermines this first paragraph with his second paragraph, because even though he says that all four of these methods are necessary to know the truth. He states ultimately the things of God are made known by the spirit of God, which is usually a still small voice. We would argue know it comes through the written word and as Christians we would say primarily the New Testament would be that source. If we have anything that we think is a still small voice it better concur with what God is already revealed or you would be an error to assume that what you think you're hearing is really coming from the Holy Spirit goes on to say, the apostle Paul taught that we cannot know the things of God except through the spirit of God an exciting first Corinthians chapter 29 through 11, we would have no argument with that.

But isn't it odd that even though Mr. core bridge and we at MRM would agree with what Paul says in first Corinthians 2 our outcome of truth, is very very different.

Why is that and I think that's a fair question. Why do we arrive at different truths when the can really only be one truth in this particular case. He goes on the site Paul by saying that the natural man receive not the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him again, we would have no argument. However, we would say it's foolish for Latter Day Saints to believe something that Joseph Smith or the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints taught them and assume that even though it conflicts with what the New Testament reveals. It can't be true if it conflicts with the New Testament, it cannot be true. Therein lies our problem. We think that there is a belief bias involved here.

Mr. core bridge doesn't think so but he goes on on page 30 to talk about all the problems that we encounter in life. What is he saying that paragraph Eric about all the problems you encounter in life.

One towers above the mall and is the least understood the worst of all human conditions is not poverty, sickness, loneliness, abuse of war as awful as those conditions are the worst of all human conditions is the most common it is to die spiritually. It is to be separated from the presence of God and in this life. His presence is his spirit, or power, though I don't think you and I would have a problem with that statement where he says the worst of all human conditions is the most common it is to die spiritually. It is to be separated from the presence of God. Certainly, we agree with that but again, how do we not die spiritually.

How do we prevent being separated from the presence of God.

Again, Mr. core bridges, truth would be different from our truth that we could both be wrong, but we can't both be right, you got to understand that we cannot both be right, the worst of all human conditions is to die in your sins, which of course would mean to die spiritually. Jesus said if you don't believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.

That sounds like a pretty dire warning. Otherwise, why would Jesus say it so there obviously has to be something you must believe about Jesus in order to keep you from being separated from the presence of God in Mormonism. That list is different than our list as New Testament Christians. This is an issue of epistemology epistemology is how we know what we know and how does Latter Day Saints know that he has a still small voice telling him what the Holy Spirit is really wanting to convey. And I think that's a big issue here because if you're in a go with your feelings eager to go with this quote on quote Intervoice I see Jeremiah 17 90 saying that the heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked who can know it. Here's the difference between what he's trying to say and what we as Christians would hold. We hold that the Bible has the answers that were going to have to do some work such as studying God's word. Second Timothy 215 says two study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman who needed not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth, we would say that yes, a person must have the spirit of God, but the way that you're going to be able to get the spirit is to be able to hear the spirit through what God has revealed in his word. When you use the word work should make this very clear folks were not talking about working for salvation at all. This is a part of sanctification there is effort that is involved in our sanctification. This is sometimes lost on Latter Day Saints because they intermingle, what justifies them as well as what sanctifies them and this is what makes it difficult for Latter Day Saints to know certain truths that we think the Bible is very clear about Paul says in Philippians 212 to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. It's a process being a Christian is not just gonna come magically and you're going to have to do some work and certainly we need the spirit but not in the way that I think that this article is trying to make it look well after talking about the problems that we encounter in life and the worst of all human conditions is being separated from the presence of God which we would agree Mr. core bridge goes on to say. Conversely, the best of all human conditions is not well feign prestige, good health, the honors of men or security the best of all human conditions is to be endowed with heavenly power. It is to be born again to have the gift and companionship of the Holy Ghost which is the source of knowledge Revelation strength, clarity, love, joy, peace, hope, confidence, faith in almost every other good thing where I would disagree with Mr. core bridge on this is that to me personally the best of all human conditions is to know that I have a forgiveness of my sins. That's not really in this list. He doesn't really say that. Which makes me wonder how can you Latter Day Saints. Even a latter-day St. like Mr. core bridge have joy, peace, hope, confidence. If he does not have an assurance of his forgiveness of sins. Therein lies the problem we feel for the latter-day St. because if you ask a Latter Day Saints if they have the assurance that all their sins are forgiven and you heard to say this many times on this show when you ask a latter-day St. You have the confidence that if you were to die right now that all your sins are forgiven and that you would get the best that your religion has for you. Rarely will you ever hear a Latter Day Saints offer a very quick affirmative to that question. It's usually an answer of doubt could be maybe I think so, perhaps, or just a flat out no why the Church of Jesus Christ of their church. The one that they have to ask themselves whether or not it's even true is preventing them from having the answer to that question we have to understand in Mormonism. The goal is that you can become as God that you will be with your family forever, and so perhaps that's a little bit of what he's trying to say here. As far as being endowed with heavenly power, but what you're saying Bill and I agree with completely. Is that forgiveness of sins is what the Bible is all about.

And when you are a believer that you don't have to have any fear because there is a peace that passes all understanding. As Paul says in Philippians and first John 513 in the King James. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the son of God, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the son of God in Mormonism Jesus is certainly a part of the religion he's in the churches name. We don't deny that, but which Jesus if you have the Jesus of the Bible in your Latter Day Saints and you have fear of dying.

First John 513 says that you shouldn't have any fear because there is this promise of eternal life, and Jesus himself said that he would never leave us nor forsake us, and we should mention that that passage you read at a first John five reads the same in the Joseph Smith translation so Mormon cannot argue that that versus Ms. translators not giving us the proper understanding of what John was trying to convey in this article, the Says Jesus said, quote the comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, and there is no ellipses shall teach you all things, citing from John 1426. He goes on to say it is the power by which we may know the truth of all things citing from around like 10 five and and I guess that's what's important. If it in fact is the Holy Spirit that is teaching a Latter Day Saints a certain premise, it would have to confirm what is already been written. It will not contradict what we find in Scripture. No more.

He might argue will. Maybe that verse isn't translated correctly.

Or maybe it hasn't been transmitted correctly okay. I'm willing to take on that challenge.

Let's find out well.

Usually what we find out is it is translated correctly or it has been transmitted correctly so that argument can't be used in a case like this.

The problem I have is that Mr. core bridge is going to assume by something he says he doesn't have and that is belief bias and he's going to assume that the church is true is going to assume that Joseph Smith is a prophet of God but yet did. He tested Joseph Smith by the two tests that we find in the Bible and we talked about that last week if he did I don't think he's came to the right conclusion because I don't think Joseph Smith meets the biblical requirements of a true prophet one by the very fact that he introduces a God completely unknown to both Jews and Christians shows that he violates Deuteronomy chapter 13 the fact that he predicted things that didn't happen shows that he violates Deuteronomy 18, so he would not be a prophet of God, which of course is point number three in one of his primary questions he would fail that test and therefore should not be embraced as a true prophet. Thank you for listening you would like more information regarding his research ministry.

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