Christmas Book Citations Doctrines of Salvation Part 1

Answering Mormons questions by Bill McKeever and Erin Johnson deals with 36 commonly asked questions by your LDS friends and neighbors. It's a great resource for Christians want to share their faith with friends and loved ones. Be sure to pick up your copy today at your favorite Christian bookstore viewpoint on Mormonism program that examines the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from a biblical perspective viewpoint when Mormonism is sponsored by Mormonism research ministry since 1979 Mormonism research ministry has been dedicated to equipping the body of Christ with answers regarding the Christian faith in a manner that expresses gentleness and respect.

And now, your host for today's viewpoint on Mormonism welcome to this edition of viewpoint on Mormonism.

I'm your host, Bill McKeever, founder and director Mormonism research ministry and with me today is Eric Johnson. My colleague at M are M selections from doctrines of salvation, a book that was given away as a Christmas gift in 2001.

If you been with us through this series, you know that we are looking at many of the books that were given away as Christmas gifts by the first presidency during the years 1981 to 2017 now one thing I find about this book in particular.

Eric is because the citations in this book were compiled from the three volume set of doctrines of salvation that was put together by Bruce McConkie Joseph Fielding Smith, son-in-law. This really carries much more weight than I would say even the three volume set of doctrines of salvation. Why am I saying that somebody had to go through the three volume set and choose which citations to put in this special book that was going to be given away as a Christmas gift by the first presidency to employees of the church as well as other general authorities. What that means folks is that if we were to cite from selections from the doctrines of salvation and because this book is published by the church itself. It carries much more weight. It's almost like it's been correlated, you might say. And of course as we talked about on this show.

To cite a manual that's been correlated. It means that it's been vetted.

Somebody has gone through, making sure that this book reflects doctrine approved by the first presidency of the church in 2001 I think you're making a good point Bill that there is authenticity and authority with this book.

It was my favorite wine of all the volumes in every show that we talked about the different books I've read each of them, but this book includes many of the unique quotes that are found already in doctrines of salvation, and so for the church to have its theologians or historians or whoever it was to put these quotes together gives us some kind of an impact in authority.

The only other book would be the sermons and writings of Ezra Benson and we'll talk about that soon as from 2003. So with these two books at you can't get them anywhere else except through eBay or some use bookstore and that these are the ones in leather so is gonna cost a little bit more money but if you're in a buy one of the books that we've been talking about in this series. This might be the book for somebody down and I would agree with that now are going to look at the topic that Joseph Fielding Smith likes to talk a lot about. But what's amazing is the things that he says about Adam and Eve and that is the topic. He seems to just make it up or he gets it from some source and he doesn't credit the source, but a Mormon reading this, no doubt because it's coming from a president of the church is supposed to believe what he's telling them even though there is no evidence at all to support some of the well let me just say that some of the outlandish statements that he makes. We have to remember he is the son of Joseph F. Smith, the sixth president of the church who goes back to Hiram Smith, the brother of Joseph Smith.

So there is some I think worth in quoting these kinds of leaders who apparently are getting the same kind of revelation that Joseph Smith had that Joseph Smith was able to say a lot of things that he doesn't have any backing. If you go to the Bible to help support him and I'm in a say in the courts were in a gift today. It's like where did he get that that's a great question. Let's look at the first quotation that we have here today and this is taken from selections from doctrines of salvation page 60 a book that was given as a Christmas gift in 2001. Adam and others help in creation. It is true that Adam helped to form this earth. He labored with our Savior, Jesus Christ. I have a strong viewer conviction that there were others also who assisted them.

Perhaps Noah and Enoch and why not Joseph Smith and those who were appointed to be rulers before the earth was formed.

We know that Jesus, our Savior was a spirit when this great work was done.

He did all of these mighty works before he tabernacle in the flesh. Okay Adam and others helped in creation. Where do we find that in the Bible you don't, it's an argument from silence, but as we can see as long as Joseph Fielding Smith claims that he has a strong view or conviction that there were others who also assisted them. Then I guess you could say it must be true that we know that his son-in-law Bruce McConkie believe this because this is what he says about Adam helping form this earth. He adds number of other characters into the mix.

This is what Bruce McConkie seven page 169 of Mormon doctrine, this one is the 1966 edition. He says that he was aided in the creation of this earth by many of the noble and great spirit children of the father is evident from Abraham's writings. Now he's referring to the book of Abraham which basically in the mind of a lot of people who have studied the book of Abraham know it to be a fraud.

This is why the Mormon church had to come up with this idea that Joseph Smith engaged in what they call like a spiritual translation rather than a literal translation from some Egyptian papyrus that came into his possession. In the mid-1830s, but unto these superior spirits.

McConkie says Christ said we will go down for their space. There and we will take of these materials and we will make an earth where on these may dwell getting this from Abraham. 322 through 24 and then McConkie goes on with his little list here. He says Michael or Adam was one of these Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Peter, James, John, we have apostles and here Joseph Smith and many other noble and great ones played a part in the great creative enterprise that we have the reference here doctrines of salvation, volume 1, pages 74 and 75, which is where selections from the doctrines of salvation gets it as well. So he's more definitive then Joseph Fielding Smith was because Joseph Ely Smith doesn't say for sure. He just as perhaps Noah and Enoch and why not Joseph Smith but if you read Mormon doctrine, it sure sounds like he is saying definitively. These people were involved with the bill I would ask the question okay what about Thomas S. Monson Russell M. Nelson and others who all was involved in the creation. If you're going to put these folks and how about Judas Iscariot. We can throw anybody in the mix. If we want. I mean, it sounds like they are doing the same thing. But, of course, in the eyes of a latter-day St. These men have some kind of authority over them as members in the church so they are more apt to be believed in our speculations, that's for sure.

In Manti, Utah.

There used to be a church there called the true and living church and one time we were invited to go in and look at their genealogical charts and on the charts on the wall.

They had everything from Adam and Eve to all the different apostles, and they had people's names that were living today. Who were those peoples in previous probations. It sounds to me very similar. You can just come up with any name, and you have no support. Yes, especially no support from the Bible. This is why being ignorant of what the Bible teaches can be very dangerous folks and as I've said many times on this show.

You don't find a lot of highly knowledgeable people when it comes to the Bible joining the LDS church. Usually the people join do not join because of doctrinal reasons a joint for some other reason, little realizing what they are getting themselves involved in on page 62 of selections from doctrines of salvation Joseph Ely Smith writes now when Adam was in the garden of mean he was not subject to death. There was no blood in his body and he could have remained there forever.

This is true of all the other creation. See second Nephi 222. This statement may not be very pleasing to our evolutionist, but it is true and what's funny about that last part is evolution is taught at Brigham Young University and yet he's taken a stab at people who believe in evolution here, but the part I want to focus in on where does he get the idea that there was no blood in Adam's body.

Certainly not in the Bible. You're right, there's no mention of this in the Bible but yet he comes up with that and I don't know where he got it he may have gotten it from somewhere else, but certainly. Again we have what is called an argument from silence, but now were going to look at pages 84 and 85 in selections from the doctrines of salvation because this is the doctrine that I think causes a lot of us evangelicals to really cringe because again there is no way that he can support what he's about to say in this book.

On page 84 near the bottom.

He writes transgression, not sin of Adam.

I never speak of the part Eve took in this file is a sin, nor do I accuse Adam of a sin, and this is what Joseph Fielding Smith.

Does he kinda plays fast and loose with the two words, transgression and sin. Now Joseph Fielding Smith says he would not say that Adam was engaged in the sin, but it seemed like the apostle Paul certainly thought so when you look at Romans chapter 5 verse 12 therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and best death spread to all men because all sinned. It sounds like Paul has no problem equating what Joseph Fielding Smith thinks is a mere transgression but yet we find that the apostle Paul certainly says that it was through one man, obviously the one man speaking of Adam through this one man sin entered the world. So here we have a conflict between the apostle Paul, and Joseph Fielding Smith the 10th present the church.

The question is, is who do you think is the one you should trust most.

I would buy Fargo with the apostle Paul over Joseph Fielding Smith any day and and I would say on that. I think he's trying to protect the doctrine of Mormonism when he's trying to say. There's a different spin transgression and sin, because in second Nephi 225 it says very clearly that Adam fell that men might be, and in Mormonism. You have to have the fall in order to allow the spirit children who are waiting to take on bodies to be able to come onto the earth for their mono probation because you cannot receive exultation in the celestial kingdom unless you are able to take on a body and through agency be able to choose the right so that you can hopefully can become God in your own right in your own world yourselves and that brings up another issue.

Where do we find in the Bible that Adam and Eve were prohibited from procreating until after they sinned. We don't see anywhere in the Bible that says that this again is something that seems to be at least somewhat unique to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints again. We do not find any justification for this conclusion based on the Bible.

So when you were talking to a latter-day Satan, and they may bring up some of these things and I don't find that this is a topic that's often brought up in a witnessing situation merely challenge them and ask them where are you getting this. This is something that I find myself asking many times whenever I am having a conversation with a latter-day St. where did you read this. Have them give you the reference and if they do give it to you just say, would you mind if I just take some time and I go home and I looked this up and then maybe we can continue this conversation later on when I've done that I have found that most latter-day Saints don't have a problem with it but I will warn you. Most of the time they don't know where they got it.

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