The Worship Wars (Part 2)

More of the worship wars to the single biggest controversy in the church today. There's a level of ignorance. Then there's another link so you have to discern dealing with a lot of times I would say the majority of the seminary today. A lot of what is how to grow the church not necessarily taught a lot of theology you have one or two classes here and there, they come back out of the way they've been taught and simply following friendly movement or whatever work so yes I will come to understanding the times radio Jim Martel brought to you by all three ministries media team is taking a much needed Christmas break, we are presenting what became I most appreciated to part radio series a year ago on music in the church worship wars. How did music become the great divider talk about it with our guest has the right and whole house and every market most worship services today in modern evangelicalism. If you are all of a sudden in the middle of the song pulled the plug on all the instrumentation on the microphones and everything you would find that the congregation is hardly singing. We very often become worshipers of ourselves were not worshiping God were simply worshiping the feelings that were having about when it comes the issue of music is one of those areas way the Bible what we have done is we have elevated music to seems to be a place above the teaching of Scripture and welcome to understanding the times radio and this is part two of a two-part series, the worship wars. Last week we considered the issue of what's the big divider in the church heavily requested theology in many places, but it's also music and there is theology within music.

It's the great divide in the church today. The divide is usually age driven, but it doesn't have to be typically one generation wants one style of music, another generation wants a different kind of music, perhaps more subdued. Perhaps a return to the hymns. The church used to saying years ago.

So we looked at that for an hour last week were going to pick up on that this week Kenneth unpacked some more issues because I just get so many emails I read some last week emails from people who are concerned, confused, perplexed, have left the church had been asked to leave the church because they have spoken up and said you know what the music that you're playing. Not only are the words totally repetitious.

Not only do I see some people usually younger people, almost in a trance, but I'm hearing some horrible theology coming from some of the music that's being sung today. Last week we took a close look. Anyway, I don't know that we spent whole lot of time, but we did reference. Many times hills song we reference Jesus culture. My hunch is your church is singing those out you'd like to hear the programming just go to my website.

Want to all of Treeview's.org olive tree view's data work order radio and then complete archives and you can hear the full hour.

We played lots of soundbites. Some of the issues related to music in the church that are very, very troubling. We talked about a particular song we talked about the song. The reckless love, reckless love of God is God's love really reckless and I think we made the point, after some discussion that indeed the love of God is anything but reckless. The love of Jesus, he went to the cross redeeming the world that was not reckless. It was targeted and it was intentional.

Nothing Jesus did was reckless and yet the song reckless love you go to it on YouTube. It's been listen to almost 90 million times just on YouTube that doesn't count your CDs, and other ways of listening to the song.

What I'd like to do is pick up our discussion, I have my two guests back from last week and they include Pastor Brandon Holt house from rock hard in Bakersfield, California. Brandon welcome back to the program. Thanks Jan for having me and Eric, barge or who has the background professionally in the record producing world in the music industry.

Obviously, that is, before he began his current ministry of apologetics. Eric, thank you for coming back.

Always glad to be your job and we were talking a little bit here between programming. I think we were kicking around the center of silence here, let me ask you both. Isn't it possible that church leadership simply does not know what they're doing does not know the offense. Brandon and I agree.

I think there's an element where there's a level of ignorance. Then there's another group that knows what they're doing. So you have to discern who you're dealing with a lot of times I would say the majority time to deal with ignorant honestly the kid go to seminary today. A lot of what he is taught is how to grow big church necessarily taught a lot of theology shall you have one or two classes here and there, they come back out of seminary is the way they've been taught to grow big church and it simply ignorant. They're just following the seeker friendly movement or whatever works. So yes I would say a lot of his ignorant is really what they been taught and if they've only been taught that and they've been taught this formula that the church growth movement has taught in so many different fashions and forms from CP to read Neurontin and in many other books you think about that. If that's what they been taught. It's really not their fault and what were saying here at this point what this is not their fault. We are all have responsibility for those things. But if they have been brought to think about these things and all were trying to do is give people food for thought.

We are not saying that we perfected this and we've got it all together and I don't want to be one. The just shoot music because of the sound of her to the styling. I've had people come to me years ago. This is all I did was talk about music and entertainment. The first years the ministry. After I got saved. People wanted me to to tell their kids that there was something wrong with the music itself and I prefer much more to look at the lyrics of the lifestyle with almost 900 passages in the Bible that deals with music and songs and singers and songwriters and worship and someone we don't have God telling us that in an instrument or sound of music is right or wrong before we got a lot about lifestyles and lyrics.

Let's be doing the test on those things. Well, not all hymns are theologically correct, either very true so you are not saying that going back to the hymnal is going to be all of the answer. Brandon, your thought on that. We will throw in a hand in every service we see offering food to our people know everyone has their favorite and we want to offer a variety two different age groups. You're right. Not all hymnals are biblically correct. Even modern-day music or older music where always screening it say this match up with the biblical record the consistent with that. If it's not. We don't use it better. Hymns are not age issue without it determining factor for us that age does play a factor here because I keep hearing from folks and I'm not gonna say how old they are. I don't even know sometimes our church was hijacked, they would say, and we talked about this last week we played lots of clips last week in talks to programs that all of Treeview's.org or you can also download podcasts@oneplace.com. Our church was hijacked. A lot of people are told if you don't like it you can go somewhere else.

It is heartless comments to those who actually speak up and say you know what what you're playing.

And isn't appropriate a lot of time stranded suggest that it's very hard to see change take place and this is such a volatile emotional issue. In fact, I would suggest that right next to the theology being taught in the church. The style of music or type of music that's being sung or played. If you try to change it you might as well just get your car drive down and don't look back. That's the way it is in some places we have spent some time on the theology we spent time on the fact that words are repetitious, etc. I wrote a reference we get some people looking like you're in a trance from singing choruses hundred times that theology I think is the most troubling thing I think we should continue on that for just a few more minutes anyway. Brandon, you said something to me the other day you reference. Second Corinthians 6 that we should not be unequally yoked, and it does not just apply to marriage it applies to some music groups that are leaning towards being whatever a cult there leaning towards being horrific by way of theology that is being unequally yoked and we start playing those in our worship service.

You are not the reference I made about whether it will song or Bethel or whatnot when we give Approval to that biplane, then I'm accountable for that.

As a pastor I have answer for that. Obviously that Scripture through plaintiff separate from people were worshiping a false manner or who have a pot side or taking false doctrine me to lend my credibility as a pastor to a group that's promoting new apostolic Reformation. Another promoting dominion now or word of faith, nap answer for that, so that's why I see that is a very important issue. As a pastor because no one can answer for in the congregation except for me to use experience directives. I mean think about it we go around seeing lyrics coming melodies. It's a way to see thoughts and hopefully good theology in our hearts and along the same lines as what Brendan was kind of up next to just now was the idea of songs on spiritual warfare. Being that on the been a musician for all my life and I've written books on spiritual warfare and taught on this music's a powerful tool spiritual warfare with people, especially in the new apostolic Reformation have taken it too far and think about the songs being sung about victory, victory in Jesus healed him a chorus that some people might call him; chorus.

How far do we take that yes we had victory in the war but we still living behind enemy lines here in a fallen world. The ideas the women take over and commandeer the world than in doing so, bring Christ back that's kingdom now looking him now. Do people take these ideas that they then saying they take these ideas and think, well, that must be biblical makes me feel good to think that we have overcome what we have overcome but were still fighting in this war and were still living in flesh that's fallen so we have all those issues going on and is always bothered me. And at the songs about spiritual warfare, though they have a lot of victory and I'm they also can lead people down the wrong road you're listening to understanding the times radio Jan Markel here do a couple weeks segment on music in the church because it certainly would be the new worship wars. It all has to do with style of music. Last week we talked about a lot of things we talked about the personal lives of these various artist groups lyrics might be fine, but the source of the artist or the groups could be apostates could be promoting false doctrine could be promoting false worship method, such as it might be promoting yoga and might be talking about contemplative prayer. They might be backing the whole LGBT Q movement leak at some doing that already. These are all things we've got a look at is not just the words, it's the lifestyle that has gone haywire a lot of cases ungodly performances. Last week we talked about he will song having a youth pastor impersonate the naked cowboy.

We talked about Hill song Christmas performance in which they portray Jesus being born in a bar. They've taken that YouTube down but it actually happened.

Lots of things related to this, some that are promoting reconciliation, yoga, progressive Christian mysticism that songs your singing in your worship service in your church represent the things that are very skeptical and questionable like this. The worship attainment and we talked heavily about the seeker friendly movement going back now, some 40 years if not more. Some churches are having smoke and lights. Elvis impersonators Michael Jackson thriller is reenacted, and many of them will misapply Paul's statement in first Corinthians 922, which states, by all means by all possible means I might save some. So in other words, anything goes.

We talk heavily about the church growth movement and how that has promoted all of this is what I wanted to want to talk for a few minutes gentlemen about the Christian industrial complex. And that basically is whatever sells in some bookstores they get books that we know are just filled with theological air, but they are huge sellers and so the Christian industrial complex, says, let's put them out.

Let's even feature them. Let's put a big sale on them because we will make some money. This is why the shack became so popular of the Christian industrial complex. Brandon talk to me about this because it plays so heavily here and music to understand Christian industrial call but you have to go to the level of Christianity at controlling the narrative here in America version of Christianity that controls the narrative are the mega church. They are the ones that sell the books. They're the ones that make the music there. The one that marketers use to make money and there is a lot of money involved in Christianity.

Most people the average person average Christian doesn't realize what's going on but your mega church pastors are making millions of dollars selling millions of dollars worth of books will anyway. They control the narrative right now.

We've talked about a lot of these mega-churches in their music are using the church growth model. Basically what the Christian industrial complex see that.

Well that's selling that's what works.

Let's promote it will have a rising star come out of the mega church because that mega-churches put a stamp of approval so that becomes your new writing stark Christian celebrity entertainment guy or gal and that's what gets promoted, but someone like me or a lot of Robbie 80 to 85% of the churches here in America do not control the narrative, but they do and that narratives were false doctrine is taught whether to open or the music, not the problem or happen and it is a monolithic movement right here regularly into the well just the pastors responsible each pastor has to is going to stand before God as we said last name, given the count before we abdicate somebody and put the stamp of approval on him and we really do in the way if were playing the songs that come out of their example and Brian Houston, the originator of the founder of Hill song endorsing Chris Lahm his son Joel who is the worship leader at Hill song New York endorsing evolution. Just last year mean you have those kind of things and I was much as I like many of the Hill song songs, especially many of the older ones. I thought I was a pastor I be hard-pressed to be able to justify allowing these things in my pulpit and Brandon Azar done a great job of talking about that, but I just wanted to reiterate again to the pastors into the worst leaders we will stand in the count for what we give our approval to buy leading and on the platform when looking at lifestyles that we've referenced that several times. Can we sing Ray boats music, aren't we endorsing his gay lifestyle. Brandon currently we are because what were saying is we can't separate the art from the art of fishing Christianity down the secular world is a different story.

It could care less about the artists lifestyle and the Arctic. But in Christianity we teach the Bible teaches that your lifestyle must become what you believe.

Okay so then you have Ray bolts Jennifer Knapp that come out whether they come out as sexual or lesbian or you have someone like Laura Daigle popular but says she doesn't know whether or not homosexuality is a sin I don't think in Christianity and don't think the Bible teaches that you can separate the art from the artist because if I except the art been on accepting the artist who were interlinked in the Scripture, so that becomes the problem that every pastor has to wait through if I play the song and let's say Ray bolts song is really good. Am I given a tacit approval to Ray bolts what I'm saying is I have said yes I'm going have to answer for that again.

I don't know if a lot of people have thought through that maybe that's tightening the news to tight around what we play but that's my conviction that the answer will listen. Why don't we take my first break of the program again thinks we are playing part two two-part series here on the worship wars and that's music in the church. It's the big divider, probably more than anything sometimes is divided long age doesn't have to be.

But it often is.

Sometimes those who are objecting to whatever music style is there simply told you know what if you don't like it you can go somewhere else.

I know people who have visited 1520 churches, but they run into the same issue every single church. It is the music that there's something and it's not just a minor issue. We have talked again.

We've talked about lifestyles save you could see the naked cowboy on YouTube and this is what he'll songs presenting and I think it was in New York. Maybe it was Australia not sure, but a mate is shocking. It is shocking.

Are we improving that mean you have to see it to believe it word continue our discussion. I'm talking with Pastor Brandon Holt house.

Learn more@rockhybrid.net check his prophecy updates weekly as well and Eric part your learn more@ericbarger.com and back in just a couple of minutes we can continue our discussion on the worship wars pastor does the Bible really have much to say about music. Our Bible is filled with references about singing and about music and if you're struggling with staying awake tonight. Then take a pen in the paper out and don't draw my silhouette will write these references down and check them sometime you know that music and singing is mentioned 550 times in our Bible did all the term music and musical and musician appears 75 times in song and songs appears 98 times in the saying in the singers hundred 96 times God loves music. Psalm 100 verse number two serve the Lord with gladness. Come before his presence with singing. Thank you for your generous support you 2019 we love you can do so by writing all of three views.org that's all of the board.

Please remember us personally when actually in the new year be here to help you understand the times watchmen we are entering our 20th year of broadcasting.

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Thank you for making that possible developing ministries is acquainted with us through our website almost 3 views.org all of three views or there you will find a wealth of information and tools to help you grow your Christian faith help times 10 for the faith and be watchmen on the wall lying to nothing is falling apart. Everything is falling into place insincerity was all that counted in the Mormon missionary my door for not careful will allow that kind of thinking to come in and give so much grace to those who are presenting the music in the church today and let's face it, somebody's a good singer. They write a song comes popular. People like sounds a like a melting they're not thinking too much about the words we better be careful to test the words test everything I can hear watermark saying that put all things to the test. Test everything. If you miss a program you can always access the program electronically on our website. One place.com or on our YouTube channel under John Markel. All three ministries insert images and video. There are those who learn visually or download one place.com mobile app have the program delivered to your devices turn to John Markel, Pastor Brandon Holt house and of the megahit worship song's lyrics have reached millions and is inspired over a dozen emails or wages the past month like this one. Tim regular listener to the podcast over the past couple months of been hearing the song reckless love playing over and over in churches and on the radio.

One of the main lines in the course celebrates the overwhelming never-ending reckless love of God.

My question is is this a biblically and theologically correct way to describe God's love is the term reckless to reckless.

I don't sound too judgmental, but every time I bring this up. I get called for for focusing on just one word rather than the message of the whole song just hoping you featured some light because I truly believe the words matter, especially in songs of worship and praise okay and welcome back to cricket with that little clip there Eric, what about that picket on one word, maybe the rest of the something is pretty good but the one word is pretty bad. You know I come back to this musicians are not always discerning just like the people who sit in the pews are not always discerning. Often times the something rhymes and it fits and it kinda sounds like it came from the Bible or an idea that came from some Christian mind but did it really match what the Scriptures say that's the point. Again, we're not and I hope people understand we are not trying to be so nitpicky that nothing works were pointing out some of the repetition and also some of the words that are being used especially idea reckless homeboy just goes further and were not the first one to say this, there are people who defend this particular song in the use of the word reckless online. I've read to renew the comments, it's obviously a hot button yeah it is a hot button Brandon Holt house and he's one of my guest for the our branding have some words that I think folks need to hear and not necessarily in the song version, but you've got them that you can read and in some cases. Again, we referred to this a little bit last week is Jesus our boyfriend. I mean, that's kind of where at sunrise. Words are leading us to talk to us a little bit about that at some examples of but words mean thing to write a song and to be biblically accurate. I would think somebody starts with take the time to do a little searching the Scriptures and make sure that they're not using terms that are not identified with love. So the idea of the reckless love but Nellis moved to another way that many songs are being used and are using love and what we call real eroticism which is Jesus is my boyfriend type of song romance type of song to God and yet you just interchanged God from your boyfriend or wife or your whatever it would fit your eroticism is old. Let me give you a couple exam, please do wrong that you just kinda upset. She almost to the point of blasphemy, of saying certain things to Jesus or God. For instance, this one from Carrie Joe lay back against you and breathe fill your heart beat. This love is so deep it's more than I can and I melt in your present it's overwhelming that your eroticism give me another example by Matt Redman falling in love but you and you can't get more clear than that death on Valentine's Day card fallen in love with God that how it works, but another one David Harper I want to lavish. I want to lavish my love on you Jesus. I just can't.

The that being Scripture God loves. We love them back with this idea of romanticized love and arrows for God. That's not biblically accurate. Visually another one and you park in the secret he said in the secret in the quiet place in the stillness you are there in the secret in the quiet hour. I weighed only for you but I want to know you more. I want to touch you. I wanted to your faith and want to know you more and it's like Andy, did you not understand your saying that God and not your wife want to touch you in the secret place needed just gets beyond where something in it in a congregation turn my light down absolutely last one and I give you this simplest of all love songs I want to bring to you so I let my words be few.

Jesus, I am so in love with you.

I just can't see men gravitating to that thing. I want to be romantic with Jesus. I just see people, especially men saying that's okay that turns my stomach. But that is what than the example of you are a lot of examples of some of the worship songs being sung in our churches today. What about the kingdom now theology and Brandon again were taught about bad theology. So here's where the artist theology creeps into their song so they have it sprinkled in their an example of the classic one of kingdom now theology visited by Orinda collective and the title of the song is built, your kingdom here at the here's the lyrics. Build your kingdom here heal our streets and land change the atmosphere build your kingdom here. Build your kingdom here heal our streets and land when this nation back to change the atmosphere build your kingdom here. We pray change atmosphere unleash your kingdom power awake the kingdom's feet and that the tipoff build your kingdom here when this nation back to change the atmosphere build your kingdom here just keeps repeating this build your kingdom here. The kingdom is not coming in let Jesus come right let's clarify kingdom now. Theology says that the church will make the world perfect and only then can Christ return and it's heavy in the new apostolic Reformation that I would say most all of those folks believe this it's manifest in their music and it is false false theology, but you may be singing at Sunday morning I have Brandon right I see that at my church. I'm thinking as a layperson. Well, that must be biblical close by with a plate of the nonbiblical go away and maybe I buy the CD or download the song on a podcast so I'm singing this song, but it totally inaccurate about the kingdom and this goes in line to Bennett my actions will follow whatever.

I believe that I believe God build the kingdom now it will come out in my action, which is now why you're seeing a lot of people get into the social justice movement is exactly good point going back to the full spiritual warfare. Once again false idea misconception about you know that last song.

I wouldn't even want that played in the car away from church as just a casual song to listen to think about what it say and don't you hold wish that it was just so easy to every song was blatant if it had theological problems but this means that if you're going to be discerning on this issue, folks. You have to know your Bible and you have to then be willing to apply it to things that your flesh might really like but don't match the word of God.

I want to play clip to again. We played it last week. That's okay. It ties into exactly what were saying and semi-folks didn't even hear last week's program also has produced more than 40 hours sold over 11 million copies will wife the soundness of the theology of many of the song. In fact, redemption is first and foremost for the glorification of the triune God. Again, folks, you may be sitting in in your worship service Sunday morning and that's why we have the worship wars are listening to understanding the times radio Jan Markel here. I have two guests with me for the hour last week and this week. This is part two of the worship wars and pastor Brandon Holt house you can learn more@rockharbor.net and then Eric barge or Eric Barger.com Brandon talk to me a little bit about hyper grace.

How does it fit in here will. A lot of times what people will use again when we do point things out. They'll use a hyper grace which means that while everything done of the blood it all grace and that you can call anyone else for certain things because there's no law, and hyper grace is basically antinomianism. There's no law in their it's all grace, all love and for us to point things out there saying well you're being a legalist. What they don't understand it.

We are under the law of the Messiah were not under the Mosaic law since were under the law Messiah. It doesn't allow you to act lawless for long… Being dissipated in lawless things quickly and music so a lot of times these artists will come back with hyper grace and and say well all Jesus cares about is our sincerity and that's totally wrong you can be purely wrong right after reaction to it and again it antinomianism and were just simply pointing out this is not a consistent methodology that supported by Scripture. Sincerity was all that counted in the Mormon missionary. My door could be counted in right if were not careful will allow that kind of thinking to come in and give so much grace to those who are presenting the music in the church today and let's face it, somebody's a good singer.

They write a song it becomes popular, people like the way it sounds a like the melody and not thinking too much about the words we better be careful to test the words test everything I can hear Walter Martin saying it put all things to the test.

Test everything yeah and let me add something to that hyper grace move ahead towards what churches are doing, he explained that when a reference first Corinthians chapter 9 and saying well. By all means I can reach people and basically anything goes baffled under this hyper grace no law type of movement and not not at all what the apostle Paul was talking about the and do not justify the means. And so that probably seen a lot of churches at the end to justify about anything they want to do so whether it's Michael Jackson's thriller or speckle entertainment, no law basically for them. The hyper grace movement put the stamp of approval on what they're doing and then it baptizes that insane this is for evangelism and reach people and I just don't think that's what the apostle Paul meant to the corn church that I do anything I can to reach people take that going to the bars do well like people and will I understand that some people do that going witness but do we yeah do we go to smoke pot was somebody didn't to say I can be all things all men that by some means I'll save some are some will be brought to Christ. Where do you draw the line there. You never go outside the bounds of what the Scripture teaches you is your responsibility as the way you act now I have Brandon call all of that up.

You know that no principal in Scripture about interpretation and if you just continue to read with the apostle Paul said he actually qualifies what he meant by that and he said everyone who competes for the bride is temperate in all things. Basically self-control were not allowing herself to go out of control talking about the Gentiles region in the goes to those who are without the law as without a lot not being without law for God. Under the law towards Christ.

The Thane reaching Gentiles, but I'm vain under the law of Christ. So he qualified how he reaches people will be apostle Paul. Commenting on these churches would say you're not following the law of Christ. I did not mean that anything goes, and then he continues any conclude any says run the race and don't run in such a way as to be disqualified for the prize if you used the wrong methodology. If you use the wrong doctrine, you will lose rewards so the apostle Paul qualifies these guys under the hyper grace movement that anything goes, that no you must follow the Bible your listening, understanding the times radio Jan Markel finally Brandon whole houses, churches in Bakersfield California. If you're wondering what is looking up online as well like average.net here's the thing gentlemen in and we can pick this up in my closing statement as well. The majority of listeners today the majority of listeners at any time are not worship leaders. They are pew sitters.

They may not approve about what's going on. They just feel helpless.

We heard from Carol in my last program last weekend. Carol approached her church leadership and she said please the words are awful.

The lifestyles of some of the songwriters are abysmal. We can't give our approval.

We can't endorse some of these things, and of course she was blown off, and she ultimately did find a good church and leave played a clip of her new pastor denouncing all of these things in a very appropriate way. I think we have to address is really what can people do when they are faced with an issue situation like this and when to start with you Eric were going to have to wrap it up in our next segment but speak to me about this, but I think the first thing we do is pray and I think everybody can do that people feel helpless the first place I go is God to give me help with my helplessness about an issue.

Whatever might be. So you pray and and it's the kind of thing that you just don't pray one prayer and then stop on you continue if you see issues in your church or issues in your life and family what you do you price so it's just the common nuts and bolts of being a Christian. That's where you start and remember that it it may not change overnight, it may be in baby steps that it makes that that changes are taken place.

Well let me quote an article you wrote you say in this is an article that's about this topic you say changing what you may be doing or not doing concerning music and worship may take time to implement. But remember, it is God we are here to please. It is a sobering thought that someday all of us will stand before God and give an account of what we did, whether good or bad. While in these earthly bodies, but we who are in leadership, particularly those who teach will be held to an even higher standard. That's why this is serious stuff and it is serious stuff.

Again, I just say you know if we understand have the basics of the Scriptures in our heart and Bible with a simple concordance will be able to find references that will help us to walk through these issues about the lyrics and about the lifestyle and that's in my mind that is the place to begin. If you are having issues with some of the things your hearing being sung and then you here also reports his week given here and the others are talking about about the lifestyles of some the musicians that die. We've also talked about why don't we take my second break of the program and when I returned, working to wrap this up and I want to quote you another paragraph or two from the article you've written folks. You can find his article that Eric Barger.com want to come back within a wrap of this two-week series have done folks on the worship wars again. Emails tell me lots of things about some of the church issues the number one issue is where can I find a solid church that will teach sound doctrine and second issue is where can I find a church that will talk about end time issues. The King is coming. Number three is probably what were talking about today and that is I'm going from church to church I visited 1520 churches and I'm not looking for perfection. Okay, I'm willing to accept some things that are not perfect in any church. But one ear plugs are handed out as I walk into the sanctuary smoke and the light machines go off when they start the music and then my heart starts pounding. Not only that but the words are off-base. We've covered that. Now for two weeks how the words can be off base. The theology that is being sung with hit that hard theology can be horrific. Talk about apostasy. It's not just in things that we read in things that are coming from the pulpit.

It absolutely is in the songs that you are singing. That's why I chose to cover this for two weeks with pastor Brandon whole house rock hard and that's in Bakersfield, California, and Brandon you meet in a school of my right yet we do what we struggle with setting up and tearing down, and where are you what school liberty high school in Bakersfield California liberty high school okay were coming back in just a couple minutes were wrap up our two week discussion don't go away to his feet. I ran some deal with store front will I see his phrase should say okay now we've got something to say about far, we've been reminded of truth you've been ransomed you've been healed and restored you've been forgiven you. Looking away from yourself.

Now you're looking right and it is in this that we have something that feels out of pray we get mail by writing all of three ministries Jan Markel Fox 1452 Grove, MN 55311, Box 1452, Maple Grove, MN 5531: some time 763-559-4444 763-559-4444. Would Jan enter just thank you for your faithful financial and prayer support over the years. Understanding the times radio will enter its 20th year in the new year. We could not have made this a successful venture without you. All gifts are tax-deductible as we wind out another year let us hear from you. Email us through our website at all of trees used the Lord. That's follow three views.org.

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There you can hear years of radio programming posted at our radio category we have an online store with products to help you understand at times contend for the faith become watchmen on the wall posting information on understanding the times 2020 of the next week or two. Save the date of Saturday, September 26, 2020 12. The world seems to be spinning out of control, we maintain things are all falling into place.

This has been our ministry's perspective for many years and we share it on air online and at our conferences. God has everything under control and time instability is predicted and so emphasize the words of Isaiah 33 six God is the stability of our times, you have some outstanding programming plan for you in the new year to into understanding the times radio on air or online and pray for our staff to remain strong and focused on issues that will help you understand the times we are all called to be salt and light is to delay the decay and to spread the good news until he comes. Music repairs are part of the worship service should be production from God's word you look at the ancient church that the texture of the church choir in the hearing on the front. They would have that with center stage. The architecture of the focus was to be on the on the word of God wrapping up a two-part series on the worship wars with Jan Markel pastor Brandon whole house. Eric Barger, music has become the most divisive issue in the church had this discussion for two weeks. There's Jan Markel to wrap up music music generated the great hymns of the faith that Christians have song for literally hundreds of years are now rejected out of hand as being irrelevant as being boring and in their place has come.

This highly repetitious I can think of any better word than tacky music where I'm expressing my emotional state rather than confessing what I believe about the living God and what God is revealed about himself, whereas the music in the worship of God must reflect the majesty the dignity of worship service and the words of the hymns must be based on truth and not on my emotional state. But on truth that you look most hymns today and it's a repetition of what I feel.

I feel this way, God makes me feel so good. Whereas the PMs that the people of God in the Psalms, and spiritual songs of people of song for generation after generation have been based upon truth as revealed in Scripture and in the music matches the majesty and the dignity of the words and we've lost that day. Welcome back, concluding our two week series on the worship wars and my goodness. We do have a war going on in the church sanctuary and it's called worship time where we're hearing that singing songs about God being our boyfriend, etc. instead of the glorious words about our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

So things have changed over the last 25 years 30 years in our first program. We went back and explain how this happened as a result of the church growth movement.

The emphasis began to be on filling the pews and the offering plates and reaching the postmodern the younger person and older folks were told if you don't like it you can go somewhere else we actually heard from Carol in last week's program find it@olivetreeviews.org olive trees used out or go to radio and then complete archives again.

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Now we've reset the stage here many times. I don't need to do that again.

We've been talking about the music in the church that is really gone south here in the last number of years and Eric K you wrote an article just tell me a minute about it. I'm in a quote from it here. But why did you do this well. I felt like that. The things we would be discussing today.

Some these main points probably need to be just put in print so people can have a starting point. Because really, many times in life I find if we just have a starting point will do pretty well if we keep our eyes focused on Scripture and what God's will is for our lives.

So I put this together and just got eroded very quickly, but I think there's some good pointed called advice on music in the church today and they'll be on my homepage@ericbarger.com for folks to get in one of the first things I say is fear a pastor or worship leader or a church musician understand that I'm not were not trying to be overly critical, were not bashing you would want to support you and it may take baby steps like reset already in either last week or this week's program. One of the two, I made that statement did start with baby steps.

If you feel like this is too much and it'll it'll be too much of upheaval in the church. Start with baby steps you can always begin to test the lyrics of the songs you sing and then make appropriate decisions. And that's a good place to start in a course you can always commence by praying together as a worship team whether it's two people or 20 people prayed together and the instruction that I think pastors and worship leaders can give to their musicians to get the mindset of worship instead of the mindset that were at a concert. This is not a concert. We are playing we are performing. But it's gotta be a different mindset in church. We are there to lead people into the presence of God open the way in their hearts for God's word so it's a mindset needs to be taught in these are some of the things are in that article and you say this and I'm repeating here leading people and in the presence of God in paving the way for their hearts to be receptive to the presentation of God's word must be our goal to get there. We need direction and instruction so that each person involved understands and complements the mission as a whole I would be remiss if I didn't mention that for most churches today.

This includes those even in the sound booth. Being that I was a musician and also recording engineer and producer.

I can say without doubt that those adjusting the tones and particularly the volume can make or break the mission of bringing worship in a church that's an interesting perspective and again most people listening Eric there not sound booth technicians, but nonetheless I think that's an important point. Maybe the music team doesn't even have control the sound guys have the control, that's true, and sadly and I know this to be a fact they would meet every church, but in some churches the person or persons in the sound booth and if I see a rotating sound booth people. I go away. The second one of them probably has the ears to hear the music better. The understanding of how the meal blending create the music from that viewpoint. Better and sometimes is the person who will volunteer to do it more than anything else and we praise God for volunteers. Don't get me wrong, often times it's not understood that the person in the sound booth has a lot to do with what ends up at the end outcome.the speakers you say. I believe that the tenancy in some churches to approach worship as a concert or entertainment is a grievous error. True, the congregation may be entertained, but if our goal is only to entertain. Have we really accomplished anything. The trappings of strobe lights and fog machines may be considered cool elsewhere. We will play and sing before God have a task and we have to remain on task and eliminate anything they could hamper or distract from that the task is as I already stated to bring people into the presence of God and to prepare their hearts to hear the word and pastor Brandon Holt house.

We've talked about some things today that are so grievous from the naked cowboy on down and how on earth can the naked cowboy help us and bring us into the presence of God and prepare our hearts to hear his word. How will it can obviously we have to understand what's happening or something bigger going on because Eric's absolutely right. Music prepares our hearts to hear God's word so the central focus of the worship service should be instruction from God's word. If you look at the ancient church the ancient church was doing. In fact, the architecture of the ancient church choir in the back your name on the front page. They would have a pulpit that with the center stage. So you can even see in the architecture of ancient churches what the focus was supposed to be on and it was with me on the word of God, why have things changed and I think the average person needs to understand this. There is something bigger going on because it's not just one or two churches here and there. It's the majority of church and we believe in prophecy and what the Bible states about the great apostasy I think and believe apostrophes hitting the music as well. So there a lot people are seen great apostasy in Jesus called it the leaven that permeate the entire go and it's affecting every area of the church you know Brandon when you consider what Lucifer's role was in heaven. Why would he come to earth to try to pervert the music he's done the secular world, but he's not finish there. You really don't know how pastors went belly film choir loft sadly that could be true. You know what I mean because of its association with the music in heaven. Why did this become the open door to' negative emotional when you're emotionally can bypass your theology and just have this mystical look at variance with God, and that's what people are looking for, you know, Brandon.

We were talking just a minute ago about the construction churches other than the music was in the back. I immediately thought of the church inside the city walls are in Jerusalem, where we all sang together last year and that that is a great example to me of how those churches must've sounded absolutely folks, we spent two weeks and when I do a two week series it's because I just feel the issue.

Whatever it is done. Several two week series over the last many years. I just feel that the subject matter can't be compromised by skipping lots of primary bullet points and whatever the presentation might be and so we've tried to cover this extensively here for two weeks.

The worship wars because that's what it's turned into. We have people wandering from church to church for lots of reasons, but one of them is they cannot tolerate a kind of a perverted music sets at one time at that one time there church may have had acquire may have had an orchestra. Now it's got a rock band and it's not a quiet rock band. It's actually you have to put in earplugs just to go in and participate in the worship music Eric. We've got about a minute left rapid up the most important thing is we were here to please God with what we do in worship as really hopefully in every other area of life. If you're a worship pastor. If you're a musician playing in church and I kinda said this a few minutes ago but make that commitment that you're going to pray and you're going to instruct your people about what our purpose is for music in the church and that you're there to please God. This is not a concert. But every song to the test. It just won't be what's popular or what's being sold in the Christian industrial complex or on Christian radio. It will be what God's word gives past two. In other words what God's word would give approval to do so. That's the really the crux of the article. The crux of what we said here let's put God first with the music and make sure that it matches the Scriptures, and that's the bottom line contact information going out of the program. Gentlemen, thank you so much for joining me for two weeks rock cover church.net on the web. That's a rock temperature can Bakersfield, California pastor Brandon Holt house Eric but your.com you can find the article that were voting on his home page the link to the article on this homepage Eric Barger.com let me go out of the program.

It says in Colossians 36 Dean let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing songs and in spiritual song with thankfulness in your heart to God. It has been proven that music lessons, anxiety and stress. It provides comfort, but it shouldn't be about us should be about worshiping God. It shouldn't be about growing a church but about honoring God and thanking him for his goodness want to thank you for listening folks for two weeks on our topic today will talk to you next week. Over the years we have heard from thousands expressing various kinds of troubling church issues.

We are thankful that many pastors are trying to hold the little tree right us through our website almost reduced or all of three views.org.

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