with Dr. Wayne Grudem

Best-selling author, speaker and advocate for Christian apologetics Dr. Alex McFarland, best-selling author and apologist Dylan Burroughs together bringing you the truth for a new generation. This is TMG radio.

How important is doctrine. We hear that war doctrine and often times I think people assume it's a divisive and it's something that you know maybe only preachers or professors or theologians need to care about, but on today's edition of the program were going to talk about doctoring biblical truth, why it matters what it is and we're very privileged to have a special guest that you meet in just a moment, but this is Alex McFarland and with me as Dylan Burroughs and we welcome today's edition of truth for a new generation radio Dylan. It's good to be with you my friend. Great to be with you and I'm excited about our guest today we have Dr. Wayne Gruden research Prof. of theology and biblical studies at Phoenix seminary graduate of Harvard Westminster seminary and Cambridge. This is a guy that you may know from your Bible. He was the general editor for the ESV study Bible. He's been involved in numerous works, including his well-known systematic theology used in seminaries and colleges around the country so excited to be with you today.

Dr. Gruden, thank you for being with us. You will Dr. Gruden. I just want to say I really really do appreciate your time because you're a prolific author, you're an educator. Most of all though, your servant of the Lord and in a great emissary for the gospel and what Dylan said and no doubt people everywhere recognize your name before we get into a couple of topics that I want to hone in on just give us a little bit of your background and in your journey how the Lord brought you to all the great things it is that you do not get a better grade. I'm just trying to do the next thing the ground in front of me but I grew up in a Christian home and now in Wisconsin in northern Wisconsin. As a child was interested in student government and eventually in politics and thought than to go to law school after college and become a lawyer and a politician that the Lord at other purposes than the under the preaching of Harold Dokken Gate Park St., Church in Boston when I was in college I sensed more and more the Lord calling me to go to seminary and become a pastor, but after I got halfway through seminary. I enjoyed studies so much studying the Bible in-depth and in with the academic tools of Greek and Hebrew available to me, that I went for a PhD after that in the New Testament studies and thanks for asking Alex that I think that I think that and where the Lord wants me to be in the intuitive research and writing enjoyed teaching in the classroom and teaching seminary student some combination of teaching and writing, and I enjoy trying to search out what the Bible says and make it clear so people can understand what what was your first published work. Probably my doctoral dissertation on the gift of prophecy in first Corinthians that was with an academic publisher and that was popularized by Crossway books called the gift of prophecy in the New Testament and today and then a commentary in first Peter in the Tyndale New Testament commentaries. Right then recovering Biblical manhood and womanhood which John Piper and I co-edited and then systematic theology in 1994 that came out.

Let me ask you this, and I'm glad you mentioned recovering Biblical manhood and womanhood because I will circle back to that in just a moment, but the theological landscape of 2017. There were was a lot in the news in the last on another two weeks about what does evangelical mean and so look, let's talk about that word. The Evangelical theological Society what is an evangelical my own working initiative. Someone who believes that the Bible is the word of God in the sense of theater God's word, not merely human words and believe that a personal decision to trust in Christ as one's Savior and Lord is necessary for for becoming a Christian big coming justified before God and that being born again and doesn't evangelical teary with it. Also the implication is of being involved being salt and light in the culture not just is not just that will go to heaven when we die, but will be a voice for Christ here as long as we live in this world. Well, if we believe dictated our Savior and Lord. And if we believe that the Bible is God's word and we need to live in obedience to all of it, and that includes what Ephesians 210 says walking in and doing good works, which, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. So yes should seek to influence society in ways that reflect the will and purposes of God. And I'm working on another book Alex, which I hope comes out in June now properly called Christian ethics and it will deal with a lot of those questions up involvement society so maybe we can talk about that if you month will I hope so. Before we got into the definition of evangelical you mentioned Biblical manhood and womanhood. I remember when I was a grad student at Liberty University and I first begin to know if your name we were reading the Danvers statement I want to talk about what that is and also complement eeriness and because certainly in our lifetime. There's been a lot of confusion about gender and about biblically the roles of men and women.

So let's talk about that for a little bit. How did you get into really, and you've done it well. Defining and stating what the Bible says about gender and men and women.

I went in seminary and then what I've been doctoral work in the New Testament which would have been here greater than 70 to 73 in seminary and 73, 76, and PhD work. I was increasingly troubled by a number of Christian books and journal articles that were saying there is no unique leadership role for men in marriage or in the church and was feminism in the culture saying no differences between men and women and what that they intended to relate to each other and that was coming to the church in the form of evangelical feminism or egalitarianism to me in a number of others that this is disobeying God's word which John treats men and women equally in terms of equal value and honor and dignity and importance before God, but also clearly teaches that in marriage there is a leadership role for husbands and wives don't have an leadership role for men in the church and some governing teaching roles elder and pastor. For instance, and and so that was being challenged and I and some others down Piper my friend and some other began to write about this and we publish this book called recovering Biblical manhood and womanhood: to affirm the dignity of men and women equal in value before God that also are differences which God has created and which are very good thank you this so well said not to greedily appreciate your discussion is so fascinating when you come back in just a moment and talk more about your new book. He worked on theistic evolution, critique of the biblical evidence regarding this very important area of our Christian faith sick with this would be right. Attention all Christians believe that America needs a spiritual revival, an awakening, a message of the gospel for our times this is Alex McFarlane encouraging you to attend the 2018 addition of truth for a new generation.

The conference on apologetics worldview and evidence for the Christian faith, Greensboro, North Carolina, March 23 and 24th gear an amazing lineup that includes Josh McDowell apologist Jay Warner Wallace, Lorne Greene and Todd Starnes both from Fox News attorney Abe Hamilton, the third of the American family Association music by the band and orchestra from North Greenville University, and much much more sessions for all ages equipping to share your faith confidently in any situation. Visit truth for new generation.com that's truth for a new generation.com TNG 2018.

Save a nation March 23 24 brought by North Greenville University.

Christ makes the difference. First Peter 315 tells us to be ready always to give an answer for the hope we have were instructed to be prepared to defend our faith. This is Alex McFarlane for the life he answers teams students we train at North Greenville University, a leading Christian college in South Carolina. The life he answers teams are made up of students who will inspire and equip your congregation. These apologetics teams train speaking churches to youth groups and train Christians of all ages to address key issues of our times. From a biblical perspective like is there a God is the Bible true. What about gender and moral issues. Call me at 864977 2008 and we will arrange for the life interesting to come to your church and give a presentation that will benefit your people for years to come. 864-977-2000 eight and always be ready for there is no that you back to the program. Alex Burrows in a very special guest ingredients before we resume our conversation with Dr. good and I do want to remind everybody that coming up is our apologetics conference truth for a new generation were coming back to Greensboro, North Carolina home turf for me. Haven't done an event there in a few years, but truth for new generation is going to be March 23 24 and we are going to be in the Greensboro area.

Now folks listen to this Lotta great names I could mention Jay Warner Wallace. He's an apologist, you've probably seen them on television. We've got Abe Hamilton, the third from the American family Association Todd Starnes from Fox News and Lauren Greene, who's the full-time religion correspondent for Fox news. Quite an apologist in her own right.

She wrote a book called lighthouse faith where, among other things, Lauren Greene makes an argument for the existence of God based on music theory. She says in a nontheistic world. We really wouldn't have music as it exists. And that's pretty fascinating. But Josh McDowell.

He's a great friend of this ministry and a great speaker and so I want to encourage you it's for all ages go to the website truth for a new generation.com register, you can learn how your church can be involved and it's a great thing for all ages but especially for young people because academia unless your your child goes to a solidly Christian University after high school there probably going to be faced with some rather chronic challenges to the Christian faith.

So the truth for new generation conference will be the thing to equip and empower and inform and inspire and we hope to see you there and Dr. grandma. I again want to thank you for taking time to be with us.

I want to talk a little bit about the word you mentioned in the first segment. The word egalitarianism we we really seen that on so many levels of society, not only a theological egalitarianism. The denial that there are any differences between men and women but culturally mean there's been almost this economic egalitarianism that that all outcomes have to be the same and and it's almost like were living in a time of enforced egalitarianism that absent or is it anyway it exactly as a scholar and Christian, how concerned are you about this and what can the church do to speak truth into a culture that is really often ignorant object. Well, the question again boils down to what is the Bible teach the word of God.

What are the THS and then are we going to be obedient to it and with regard to men and women. As I mentioned, there are. The Bible clearly emphatic that we are equal in God's sight equal in value, but their different roles in marriage and in the church. I don't think the Bible teaches that the goal of life should be everybody be the same or everyone be equal in professions, stewardship responsibilities, opportunity God made us all different, even in the angelic world there are angels and archangels and in the age to come and Jesus teaches that there will be degrees of responsibility that God assigned thing to one person you will have authority over five cities into another. You will have authority over 10 cities and differing responsibilities that are given to people and what we call differing stewardship and so on.

Even in the economics here today I don't think God's purpose for us is all that we all be equal but that we should do our best work at whatever task God calls us to using an exclusive cystic message in the culture is not always easy as it no, but I think it helps Alex safely understand that if people do not believe that there is any teaching from God. Any words from God is given to guide us, then all we have is a multitude of human opinions and was supposed to say that my opinion is better than yours and yours is better than mine. But Christians are distinctiveness, and we believe it. The Bible is God's word and it's different from every other book in the world and that these are God's very words to us and he's taught us about himself and about the way of salvation.

His thoughts how to live, and those those words in Scripture have authority that far above every other human opinions are human viewpoint.

Dr. Gruden you are one of the contributors to the editors to a book that really excites me. It was on my desk when I got back to North Greenville University after Christmas break, edited by J.P. Moreland. He was at liberty when I was a grad student there, Stephen Meyer, who is a colleague we've done work through the Focus on the Family together Christopher Shaw and Doug Auger and yourself theistic evolutionist, scientific, philosophical and theological critique.now this is a time I commend you 900 wow 1007 pages Crossway books. That's a whopper. Dr. Gruden about what is this book about and what prompted you all to created well. We became increasingly troubled about the fact that there are Christians in the United Kingdom and in the United States saying that you can accept the theory of evolution, Darwinian theory of evolution and modern farm you can believe that all life came about by random mutation and natural selection over long period of time and still believe the Bible and people are saying that but when you actually ask them what they mean by still believing the Bible they have to throw out the first three chapters of Genesis as being historical narrative meditates poetry and allegory and doesn't tell us facts about what really happened about how life came into being, and so they they are basically denying what the Bible says about creation will is is theistic evolution is true what what scriptural dominoes fall.

That's a good way to say it. What dominoes fall. What what we have is people saying evolution is so established as a scientific truth that we have to believe it. And then whatever in the Bible contradicts that will reinterpret and reinterpret until its meaning is totally changed. At that was why I had J.P. Moreland, Stephen Meyer and others, and I decided we had to put together a collection of essays in this this book. Theistic evolution has 33 chapters by 24 authors 18 science chapters 9 philosophy chapter 6 Bible and theology chapters all saying that this is an unacceptable theory.

When people hear the phrase theistic evolution. Alex and Dylan they they might at first wonder what it meant by that, but it's just the idea that I even believe in evolution, and then he put the word the you think in private that is leaving evolution and if they somehow God use this process to create thing as reviews of said this volume offers the most comprehensive scientific and Christian critique of theistic evolution, yet produced, we look forward to hearing more in just a moment. Stay with us if you're Christian parent. You of course want to instill a biblical view of life in the hearts of your children, your pastor, you want to offer ministry that draws young families to your church.

This is Alex McFarland encouraging you to check out my new book and video curriculum.

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You'll find it@afastore.net that AFA store.net attention all Christians would like to become more effective in presenting and doing building there, but this is Alex the farm and not typically 18 edition of truth for a new generation and evidence. PNG is coming to Greensburg Carolina March 2024. Here, an amazing lineup.

Josh McDowell apologist Jay Warner Wallace, Lorne Greene and Todd Starnes both from Fox news and much much more. This is Abraham Hamilton, the third of the American family Association. We battle for the future of our nation and I want to see you.

Actually, for new generation as we pray and get equipped to defend the faith, asking God to save our nation.

Don't miss truth for new generation March 23 24 Greensboro, North Carolina. You may register@3foranewgeneration.com that's the truth of the war truth for a new generation.com book about TMG radio Alex McFarland here with Micah Burroughs. What an honor and friends that this is really really a special edition of the program to be talking with theologian scholar Christian leader Wayne Gruden and Dr. Gruden's website is Wayne rude him.com Wayne Gruden.com.

His last name is spelled GR you DEM I would encourage you to go to your local bookstore or go online. Just Google's name you need his books and I want to say it's a joy Dr. Gruden every now and then. Not only is it is a teacher but speaker sometimes I recommend this book by an author but maybe not that book your name is one that I can heartily recommend everything this man is written go to his website Wayne Gruden him.com and again we want to thank you for taking time to be was on the program were talking about your work Crossway books, along with J.P. Moreland, Stephen Meyer and others theistic evolution. A critique Dr. Gruden. Let me throw this question out there has Darwinian evolution and really the worldview that it has things arose.

Life arose in the creation happened without the need of a supernatural creator has this in 2000 years of Christendom been just about the biggest threat. The gospel is ever faced, but it really is one of the biggest guy because it took religion for many, many people in our society. And sadly, for many children going through ethical systems and their topic evolution is the answer for the question of how do we get here. You don't any longer have to think that God created you and you're accountable to him.

It was just matter randomly bouncing around and by chance and mutation living things came into being and mutated in them, behold, here we are. So people are no longer thinking they have a God to whom they're accountable and that really erodes the moral fabric of a society that people don't have a sense of accountability at the final judgment and also it makes it more difficult for evangelism because people don't have this instinctive sense that living things are so amazing they must be a God who created everything, but then I talked to Christian to say I can believe in evolution and still believe the Bible what you mean by evolution.

Well, they say. Maybe God created matter at the beginning, but after that he didn't make any change in the behavior matter until matter just evolved, by itself, maybe God sustaining it with its properties but it just evolved without any intervention from God until all living things came about and we as humans have descended from earlier apelike creatures because of men random mutation and natural selection. And then Nate and then what what about Adam and Eve. Well, we can't believe that everybody is descended from one man one woman because I'm genetic studies today show us that there must've been at least 10,000 early human being that the human race has descended from oh does the Bible talk about Adam and Eve. Well, they'll say out of 10,000 people. God chose one man called him Adam and chose another woman in the so the woman called her Eve and said now you two are the representatives of the human race.

What happens then is you give up a lot in me that Adam and Eve were the first human being means they had. They had he, Adam and Eve had human parents.

They weren't created without apparent that the Bible says it means that God didn't create an amount of dust from the ground that Adam was born from human parents means that God didn't create Eve from Adam's rib, but Eve had human parents and interestingly it means that Adam and Eve were never sinless human being that they had a sinful nature and human nature from the time they were born means Adam. He didn't commit. The first human sin means that human death, and began with his office as a result of Adam's sin, because human beings were always subject to death, even the human being.

The reliving before Adam and Eve means that we haven't all descended from Adam and Eve, because many people have descended from others. Of those 10,000 people who were on the earth when God shows one atom and one Eve's touches about the importance of the one the Bible calls the second Adam yet. Which is it Jesus Christ in Romans five and first print in 15 Paul takes an extended argument showing that there is a really important parallel between Adam and Christ adamant that first head and representative of the human race, and then Christ as the second Adam or the one who succeeds where Adam failed in beginning a new a new humanity that it is a group of people redeemed by him and if we deny that sin came in the world through Adam and everybody has descended from Adam then we begin to wonder about the argument of Paul about the unity of the human race represented by Adam and then the parallel with the unity of the redeemed who are represented by Christ doesn't really work and so evolution undermines the doctrine of the atonement – and same way. There is a connection between Adam and Christ and the resurrection is by man came death, by man has come.

Also, the resurrection of the dead, so the doctrine of the resurrection is called into question the truthfulness of the Bible, the overwhelming existence and evidence for God's existence and nature and evidence for moral accountability to God.

We one after another. The doctors begin to be impacted.

Once you give up the foundational chapters of Genesis 1 to 3 and just say their poetry and allegory are not historically true Dr. Gruden were just about out of time again subs. The book theistic evolution.

This is a great great resource to help you defend the faith. Give us the verse or what part of God's word especially put that fire in your heart to be a champion for truth is you've been is the reverse that especially is meaningful to you.

Well, one that I've come back to again and again in acts 2026 and 27 or Paul says to the elders of the church in Ephesus. I'm innocent of the blood of all of you because I did not shrink from the clearing to the whole counsel of God affects 2027 and from the time I was in seminary. At least I thought that God had given me a responsibility not to shrink back from anything that his word teaches that to teach everything that his word says faithfully believe that all and say that we are accountable for obeying it all and I want a family farm on the last day and say I proclaim the whole counsel of God and didn't step back and decide that is why popularity.

I want to be faithful to the Lord and what I and what I thought of the faithful to his entire work will certainly future doing that. I want to thank you so much, not only for your time on this program today, but for your life's work, which is an inspiration to us all.

Yes, it is very well said. We want to proclaim the whole counsel of God's word and I believe, like Dr. Greider Bashir. This is a challenge for all of us to stand firm in what we believe stay faithful to God's word that he's given us to live out today truth for a new generation in association with Alex McFarland evangelistic ministries exists to equip Christians with the physical world view through conferences and camps for information about upcoming events. Visit truth for a new generation.com or give us a call at 877 yes God one that's 877 yes, God in the number one TMG radio is made possible by the friends of Alex McFarland evangelistic ministries PO Box 485, Pleasant Garden, NC 27313 that's PO Box 485, Pleasant Garden Carolina 71 will give online@alexmcfarland.com generation.com. Thanks for listening and join us again next time. As we bring you more true for a new generation on TMG radio