Shame

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Glad to have you with us today. I'm actually just glad back in the studio. It seemed like forever since I've been here and know you guys didn't see Mike in that long for me. It seems like it's been a long time since have been here, it's nice to be in studio not just be on the phone getting five seconds to talk when Robby throws me a question and he's not here to the second shows a theory does not want to buy my psych exam exactly it's a Robby this is your topic not getting an inside job. We are continuing from your topic from last week and one that you kinda brought to the group about the topic. A guilt and any kind of float from guilt to shame.

From shame to guilt. Many other adverbs and adjectives. We can all throw in there to say how we feel about certain things in the kinda takes it to some ugly places but also helps us reveal some things ourselves that maybe were we need some healing and some work done and I think dammit in that part of the problem that we treat those words like it's sending them.

Yet, the guilt and shame are the shame yeah and and they're not obviously got a couple clips, talking about that one of Mrs. Bernet Brown will talk about that in a minute. But honestly, shame is typically brought on when a person begins to say I am this because of what I did door because of what happened to me versus I did this switch would be guilt.

I I send therefore I'm guilty so guilt is usually an action that that we've taken and shame is a huge bigger word in my opinion than that because it takes on so many different facets. Sometimes it's things that are done to me that I had no control over causes shame some things you know that that may have happened in my life something that my parents were or that my brother or sister were or my friends were or whatever that brought shame upon me, and even that doesn't sound right to me anymore brought shame upon me well know it made me feel shame it didn't necessarily bring shame upon me and Serena talk about that a lot tonight. Yeah, I think it is. Shame is one that what we hope to talk about is we go through this is just a lot of the different aspects of it what you know what happens with it now. Shame is something as you said that we can kind take on ourselves but then there's also a time that other people try to put it on us and so as we do it to her first clipper and listen to the movie Despicable Me and if someone tries to put shame on someone else and was we pick up the story it said three little girls that live in an orphanage that later get adopted by grew, if you haven't seen it you need to go watch it's a great movie. It's a kids movie. But it's got so many powerful messages in it. Along the way. But in this scene what you pick up as the girls when outselling equivalent of Girl Scout cookies. That's kind of whether they're talking about for the orphanage to raise money and so they go back to the lady that runs the orphanage since and say how did we do and so let's listen to how she handles their hearts and how she handles their response is a say how we do today on selling cookies counting our swelling. We can see the ducklings of my that's a case where someone is trying to cast shame upon you write these little girls really haven't done anything wrong there out just trying to do the best they can do be little girls the right life is happened to them. Their orphans number one and so there's the Satan figure here who's literally trying to use shame to motivate them for her own good and so that's a lot of the time. What shame is, you know, a parent will use shame you ought to be ashamed of yourself.

You'll hear those terms or a parent might shame you thinking that's going to motivate you to try harder or do something and that is never the case.

It's it's never worked that way coming from moment one number one God never uses shame. He uses guilt. Guilt is a gift from God and he will use guilt to bring forth conviction and repentance which leads to righteousness. But shame just leads to more compulsive bad behavior typically and so, and we got a clip about that coming from John Lynch and Dan Allender from heart of man yeah series called the heart of man, which I guess you could set up. I want to talk a bit more first about this whole guilt and shame nine and watch from God and what's not from God.

And when word of the camp.

We talk about you know when they go out for quiet time, you knowingly given the warning of the difference between conviction and condemnation right God will convict you of things.

Yes you he reminds you and say hey this is something that you did any it in the hopes that you'll deal with it. Repent.

Find out what was causing that. Go to deal with the wound below it. Whatever the case may be in on that's on a conviction right in.

That's what Jesus actually says the Holy Spirit that he's going to leave with us, among other things, that he is, he's a counselor he's a comforter, but he's also one who convicts us of sin, righteousness, and judgment, and three different things, but in so conviction is real. Guilt is real. There's nothing wrong with saying I am guilty of something. In fact, there's something very therapeutic, of saying I am guilty of something, and then trying to repent of that thing in seeking God and that repentance and and asking him what's the best way to do that, but the condemnation. Romans eight there is therefore no more condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, condemnation is from the enemy and condemnation usually comes sounding a lot like shame. Yeah, and there is so a lot of good people out there helping people deal with this whole shame issue right that that kind of becomes an identity issue for people to go and get to that. The clip we got time to get it in from of the lady and I dearly need you to say who it is because I can't pronounce her name. It sounds like Bernet Brown is a sought out. Yeah, that's the Bernet Brown sauce is for the next clip comes from Bernet Brown is not a psychologist she's a she's a researcher she's she's a data analyst and she's done years and years and years of research with thousands upon thousands of people and began to come up with this from a she is a Christian, but she's looked at as pretty much the secular's world's foremost expert on guilt and shame. And so this comes from an interview that she does on 60 Minutes a few years ago so hard to talk about is we had a visceral response to the word. And shame is not a let's study this and talk about those people who have it like you have that I have no one wants to talk about it, the deeply painful feeling, or experience as believing that we are flawed and somehow unworthy of connection, love and belonging. It's a universal emotion is different from guilt very different from guilt, so shame is really a focus on self while guilt seems to be a focus on behavior. So shame. I am bad guilt. I did something back so just an example.

I'm your teacher and I give you your test back and you get a 47/100, shame, self talk, would be got into stupid I'm an idiot, guilt, self talk with the guy was really stupid not to study for that and not a good idea to go out last night when we can focus on behavior. We are much more likely to respond with empathy and actually change we call ourselves or other people liars are losers are in out stupid becomes a something prophecy gradient go from there you becomes this identity issue right for people and in it she said so much easier in two minutes. We try to hide it exactly that initiative started with Renée Brown and and then Despicable Me and we could've just started the the ultra music. It means she she do such a great job of explaining not just that sin that shame and guilt are two different things, but that the result of them. You know that guilt will actually motivate you to change something. Shame will motivate you to isolate and to continue to believe that you are not worthy of love that you're not worthy of acceptance that you're not worthy of living in a community that if people really knew the truth about you they would run from the room screaming and that's what shame does and guilt is the other is is the exact opposite of that. And so, but you can't hardly talk about guilt without people thinking about shame or vice versa sheet. She also talked and in that interview, we didn't play at all about parents that come to her and go will my kid, I found out that my child was lying to me the other day and I and I told him you know you're a liar and what should I say there and she's explaining know your your child's not a liar, your your child practiced a behavior that happens to be lying, but to shame them by identifying them with their sin as their sin is not productive at all, but to say, look, you are us child of Sam Maine. We don't lie.

This is not acceptable behavior and then show them how to correct that. Show them how to repent and then to admit the guilt and have the conviction and move on it as I was listening to her talk. This time she was talking about, you know, the extremely painful thing that shame brings. And that's because there's hopelessness in the midst of shame when you believe shame to be true about you. There is no hope right in with guiltily. Second, the hope of change right and that's what were to come back and talk levels. Learn more about the shame and how to identify many different ways and what to do with it and how to have God help you break through that and get to the other side to find that hope and find that healing pilot restoration go to masculine journey.org to register for the upcoming boot camp July 16-19. Register now. Would love to see their friends at my pillow and change overproduction to make mass for hospitals, but they still have plenty of products are right now. Truth listeners can buy one get one free on most products, pillows, Giza bedsheets towels even that kilos if you get two of those you'll be neck and neck go to the radio listeners page then use the promo code card. I call 800-943-7096 four Mike Lindell's book and get free shipping plus a $25 gift card for your next purchase.

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He.org and find the masculine to the.org email something else to PO Box 550, Kernersville, NC 27280 you know your opinions and is the lies that I died of J and no a mass concerning a Rodney Ike about the song. This was your song for the I got the part rights hotels why the song with this topic well. We keep talking about everything else around us right.

Other people are parents or friends are whoever they are enemies and we give them power. We allow them to control us we loan to shame us to guilt as to whatever word you want to use us and really the only place we can go with all this is Christ and it's gotta be that power of Christ in us that really breaks through this and that's one thing as a parent when you have a child and you're going to feel shameful because you're going to react wrongly you're going to project guilt on them and you feel shameful for this and as a husband, are a spouse at all. You going to do the same things and all I can do in my life is just stop to the best I can to repent and really turn away from that behavior and then turn towards Christ and the song just you know I hear it every once in a while and I ask it is my favorite song/just go find and play a lot and was listen to it this week as I know guilt in life no fear of death a wrong guilt mashup had that song then entered into the shame part, but I'm still was like a it's still very very relevant and to me just some of those lyrics that you put in your head and you just want to go back to so many songs just help us with those things that I can always remember words of Scripture as well as I can. Sometimes verbiage of songs that is gonna stay with you so that that's why what that song sounds good. You know you can download that song right you have to look for it each time you listen to. I took your bike as I can say this legacy.

Jim you know I love to throw a question that you without asking about a marriage that I know you've done a lot of counseling with people over the years and you probably seen this whole topic of guilt transitioning into shame you have you dealt with that when your your counseling with a couple one of the most powerful things both in my life and in shared with others has been recognizing who we are in Christ we have we should have no shame it's throughout the Bible. Yet as she said it. We all have and that's part of the fall, but if you can point somebody to the fact that because of Jesus Christ, you are a good person. You're not the despicable you that we have that wonderful movie about its but that's how most of us view ourselves when we were first starting to talk about this topic I'll psyche will you know I really have avoided shame mostly and not tell we were sitting down in here did it really hit me as I had wonderful parents and grandparents that I'd stay with about every week because parents like to get rid of myself and my cousin Vincent about that. We had a blast. But my grandmother was huge on family and she drilled into us. You don't do anything to mess up the Graham name to bring shame on the family and that hit me hard just while sitting here as I had a of that where my cousin and I got in trouble a lot together were at another cousin's house and we we stole some of his mineral collection now in our minds we had traded him for some job for something nice because we left something in its place, but the real and one of the only my father was part of the great generation and he bottled up his emotions but he was wonderful that but one of the few times I saw him cry and it would know something but it was a tear he was. It was addressing this issue and say saying Jimmy am so disappointed in you mad, I would've rather been beat with a rod for hours in here that for my father and that really was the source of my saying so I learned opposing I was a great liar. That's my name James.

I had that was sort of the kickoff and I can't bring shame on the Graham day so I met fool everybody and I'm a pretty smart guy. A lot of folks get you can't fool God and he knows who we are and he loves us. That way, and that gets back to your answer to your question if you will realize how much you are loved by the creator of the universe.

Shame really becomes a slap in his face as your San I am unlovable and God is saying I love you know you're not, you know, I when this topic came up one things, it came to mind for me was how unintentionally I think I brought shame to my kids especially my daughter's when they were little. I was with a company that was really into an Rodney can probably identify with some of this but it was getting to root cause 99 so I was paid you know quite well to get to root cause right knee. Keep asking why to get to root cause well you know what you learn and you do well work sometimes you think you take it home and apply it therein and Harold and unfortunately I tried to apply some of that to situations it would come up with the house again so something happened why did happen. Why did happen might happen. It always get back to somebody's fault right and in there's truth in that, but I don't think I know I didn't handle it in a way that was dealing with guilt more than applying shame.

I remember years ago, James Dobson talked about this topic and he was talking about parenting and EE basically said don't ever put your children in a situation where you are in essence forcing them to lie, and what he was saying was when you know your child stole the cookie there's no point in saying did you steal the cookie because you just set them up to lie because it's natural, so don't do that. Just say look Sam I know you stole the cookie and Solis talk about the consequences of stealing the cookie list talk about why you stole the cookie we can do all sorts of things and still get to the root of evil there.

The horrible cookie thief and deal with it without adding on the shame to your child of now not only be in a cookie thief, but now I'm allying cookie thief and and he talked about that more eloquently than I just did. But I loved it and so later on I began to use that I'll never forget when my son was probably I would guess maybe in fifth or sixth grade and I knew that he had gotten some bad grades in school that he had neglected bring in his report card home that he was trying to hide it but he was delaying delaying delaying and my wife kept asking name you know will sweetie when you when your teacher going to give your report card and I just said I am done with this, Derek. Look, I know you got a bad grade. I know you know the consequences of getting a bad grade so let's just get over that and move into well.

My wife looked at me and said are you crazy, you just accused him of not you know, and in basically said your ear accusing him of things that you can't prove. And I said no I don't need to prove it. I know it number one and I don't want to set him up for these other things and so two or three hours came by and he eventually came to me and said so dad what if what you said was true, and I did have my report card and I didn't have the grade and a symbol we can talk about that but the first thing you need to do is come clean and it set him free because I practiced what somebody smarter than me. James Dobson taught me to practice in Kaduna wanted to get this last clip answer and ask you to come up to the microphone and amulets watched the whole series of the heart of man and Sophie could tell us a little bit about what were getting right here, because it would come out that when you have a lot of time to debrief on cursor and so on. This it's just it's really out. I just documentary kind of four-part scene of this.

Basically the heart of the man I go into a lot of stuff. Really, what men struggle with lust and anger and stuff like that but it's some Christian counselors and authors talking just about shame and it really is a good definition of the sense that something is uniquely wrong so I'm never telling anyone what it feels like everybody knows it feels like some something on my face that everybody can see you get close enough to me it makes me awkward in crowds.

It makes me insecure. It makes me perform become a great performer my soul much one to love me and I think if I'm funny enough or talented enough, cool enough, witty enough to funny things in a crowd. You'll think I'm worth knowing and loving but I don't always assume God was mildly disgusted.

Hearing that he loves me resonate because it's like when it's all said and done, he still in its judgment in it when he saw Cindy 90s still not been where I am who I am so I don't feel close and I don't feel intimate with him. I don't even feel the freedom to speak to him because he's over there, but here I think she is that judgment that there is something ugly distorted and broken about us that is seen they could not their relationship with us. He could not bear being in relationship. Shame is drives my compulsive whatever manner and not so I have permission, I haven't to do wrong and I never really thought about it for this a few times and finish it. How much of what we talk about a boot camp deals with this whole shame issue that the poser comes right out of shame.

You know, in the incident and you know that's a lot of what we try to deal with is going back into some of the things we don't use the word shame at the capital a lot of that behavior is driven out of that. Yeah, in order to talk a lot about it in the after show in the after our show. I'm going to share with you my most shameful moments about Sam and, if necessary. If you stick around get the download podcast the after hours by guessing that a masculine journey.Ford. Also good at iTunes. Modify all different podcast outlets to get nasty and dirty after hours routine you talk about shame for first go to the website and register for boot camp coming up July 16-19, and please, please download the podcast on after-hours will learn more about shame