Why Do Christians “Deconvert”?

So why do people fall away. Why do people seem to be solid Christians end up turning away from God's time for the line of fire with your host activist and author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of Ministry get into the line of fire valves like always 866-34-TRUTH that's 866-34-TRUTH your Jim is Dr. Michael Brown thanks friends for joining us on the line of fire. This is Michael Brown.

I am delighted last to be with you. Here's number to call with your questions with your comments with your concerns with your criticisms, 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH for 87884 if you minutes were gonna dive into today's subject about believers falling away when I can get into a theological debate about whether a true Christian can truly fall away or not this will cause a debate about that. Some would say the person was never really save some would say if they really are, say they can't really fall away, as would say they could fall away and still be really say what when I cannot it into that minutia. We are going to, which is important discussion with had another times we want to be practical in terms of all, regardless of whether the person truly knew the Lord parts of the Lord was elect before the foundation of the world. Whenever we know that there are people that were professing Christians that follow what you might be one of them. What why people lose faith, why do they follow begin to tackle that today and if you're one of them, or if it's a friend or loved one and and here's why this is the reason they fell away by all means give us a call we want to talk these things through in a practical level, and I'll tell you how I got to that subject for today in a little while before we do that though there is major news from the Middle East and its news that affects the Kurds who have been allies in the fight against ISIS in the fight against radical Islam and have been victims of ISIS and radical Islam affects the Kurds. It also affects Israel and what is is happening is that the United States, a single cable pulling out of Syria and working to leave it to Turkey to deal with ISIS Turkey is an officious license. We believe it to Turkey devices will Turkey also has an issue with the Kurds so I was just looking at some headlines today on Jerusalem Post a one of them says this the Lindsay Graham Nikki Haley on Trump Syria plan. It is disaster in the making strong words from Lindsay Graham loyal to the president Nikki Haley loyal to the president or ambassador to the UN. Until recently, this is a disaster in the making it look at what Nikki Haley tweeted out herself.

Okay, she said we must always have the backs of our allies if we expect to have them to have our back. The Kurds were instrumental in our successful fight against ISIS and Syria, leaving them to die is a big mistake with the hashtag Turkey is not our friend and and yet leaving them to die is not just a big mistake.

It's it's a big humanitarian disaster. Now why is the president doing this obviously has more security Intel than any of us have ES access to more information on what basis is he doing it.

I can give you the details of that, but just a few days ago a friend of mine who's right in the thick of this living in the midst of this and and going into countries related to this and working with other believers on the front lines. He set me up a video done by a colleague over 1/2 hour long by 37 minutes long and I didn't have time to watch. I believe I was flying what when I got up and descended to me as it can you give me a summary so this is what he wrote to me right, he said, while the US is distracted by impeachment. Turkey is about to move into northern Syria, pushing out or slaughtering Kurds so the Kurds are largely Muslims, but they have been in caught in the crosshairs first with Saddam Hussein gas thousands of Kurds.

What in the 80s and we got a large team or growing team in in that part of the Middle East and northern Iraq and Kurdistan doing an amazing work among these people and they have been some of the most ferocious fighters fighting against the Kurds in an excuse me, fighting against ISIS and dying at the hands of ISIS so they have been allies.

They have they have been on the front lines fighting against our common enemies and it within Turkey there are Kurds that have been slaughtered.

So this is an ongoing issue and in humanitarian issue okay so at the same time this my friend wrote this to me. Iran is aggressively moving in a rock visibly so right now and attempting to quell protests in Baghdad.

The conflict is an ancient one of the spiritual forces of Persia and the Ottoman area. The Kurds with whom Israel closely identifies are the immediate target at the center of it all is Israel.

So Imani has surrounded and infiltrated Israel with proxies. There is reason to suspect he will make a move against Israel under cover of Turkey's invasion into northern Syria. I listen I'm not there. I don't have Intel that others have, but as I got these warnings a few days ago and then I saw the headlines this morning and I saw the reaction of Sen. Graham as so the reaction of former Gov. Haley and the.

The intensity of what they're saying.

It concerns it look there is another headline on Jerusalem Post and and it asked this question. Can Israel trust the US after Syria withdraw.

I'm in the fact that that's a headline at all is indicating how absolutely important this issue is and how you say but what we can find everybody else's battles. Understand that we are a military force in different parts of the world for larger strategic issues sometimes to protect our allies sometimes because our allies are important for our interest in certain parts of the world. The security of Israel is important for our interest in the Middle East. We understand that and and the stability of Syria a lot of effect by that. Obviously, Iran has been active in Syria and attacking Israel for their funding Hezbollah and Iran helps fund Hamas so helps attack Israel from that the South West and from the north and the Northwest tries to attack them and then obviously threatening from the East. These are ongoing issues that need to be considered in right now. This only thing I've seen is that the president has made at times very wrong moves and wrong decisions and announce them and gotten massive pushback from conservatives which point he's retreated some euros. Okay that was ill-advised or this is upsetting my base or whatever he thought better of it.

So let there be a continued outcry that this is a terrible mistake were talking about human beings who could be slaughtered. They fought against ISIS. They fought outmanned.

They fought with tremendous courage. Men and women fighting on the front lines and given their lives to fight for their freedom then obviously above all, we want to pray that the gospel would get to them so that they could know Jesus have eternal life, and hope within this world.

All right, 86634. Truth is the number to call.

There are a made a number of major things going on here in the United States. What's the latest on the impeachment when there's major, major news that I feel is worthy of our attention will will address it will address it here on the radio, but otherwise, as I said last week were going and void. Trump impeachment fever, meaning what was open this up and we notice what we don't own who's guilty of all the at at not.

I'm not criticizing those who are focused on and I'm not saying that it's wrong for other newsletter outlets to focus on that, but were talking about an ongoing soap opera of massive proportions that's going to get you more drawn in by the date you ever been drawn in by a TV series or some like that circuit right on going whole-wheat court are now people of what's called binge watch we just watch episode after episodes like you know the characters in the really good drawn it where getting drawn into the point that our emotions are get hold of her stressed and were anxious and this is the main thing were thinking about it. Instead of meeting with the Lord and praying with ruthless news what's happening so we are not going to do that right right you be doing that but when there's major news will will bring it to you if you want to see my video my article and how to avoid trump impeachment fever. Having written form in video form to score a website S Dr. Brown as Katie or Brown.org. I will say this about the president.

It's interesting that there are many people who were never trumpeters in 2016. Now say they would vote for him in 2020, including conservative Christians, you say, but he hasn't modify his behavior. He still nasty to people and he lies about things that Evenson smashes people at work with him and so on and how can Christians get behind him and what I explained in my latest article, which is on the website Esther to brother will explain to my latest article is is that Trump is gaining Christian conservative supporters more than he's losing them. That's what my own polling indicates that's what I hear anecdotally and that's what I'm reading and other articles and to me the main reasons are that the left is gone so radically left that that the Democratic Party is gone to such extremes that it's it's shouting is pro-abortion stance and shouting where the party of the religiously nonaffiliated it's shouting. It's how aggressive it is on is things that just most Americans don't want that are too extreme and ultimate social policies of other things like that and then one convinced there is bias on the left-wing media and the right wing media.

I don't doubt that for a moment and and people are going to push their agenda and sometimes mind-boggling to read news and hear the president release the transcripts of his Ukraine call right that the rough transcripts and the right to sing. See nothing here whatsoever not the same sexy smoking gun doing the same thing and and Kevin totally different conclusions. In fact these days. If I read the news item is a major breaking news.

I'll go to a very conservative website. Very liberal website if they all reported the same way that I'll assume it's probably accurate because otherwise is the summit span on everything, but we've seen how obsessed the left-wing media's with attacking the president. We had two years of the Muller investigation and now the Democratic Party wants to launch the impeachment process and the relaunch it before they even see the transcript of Ukraine report and and on and on, that there is a reaction now against that. So you know the old saying the enemy of my enemy is my friend. I'm not saying that's the best way to operate, but that's the way people often work and act and think so. You have a situation where you've got the, the, the enemy in terms of the ideological enemy of so many Christian so many conservatives in America's gotten so extreme in their attacking trump attraction to attacking them will he's the enemy of our enemy.

Therefore friend if you like a lot of the ways he does things so written about that. I think you'll find that article worth reading of there's a case being heard before the Supreme Court today, which could affect religious liberties attack.

There were few that the courts agreed to hear in the succession, which is just beginning. Now that can affect religious liberties can affect abortion and things like that so a lot happening in the world around us is always will keep you posted as major news breaks but we come back were going to switch totally spiritually related subject, namely what Christians fall away. What a people that were in church with you and worshiping the Lord with you and Bible study with you now. Skeptical, cynical, atheistic to another religion. Some of the reasons it happens all her plan by the Expo line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown your voice and more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown give someone close to you and your family, close friend that was once a committed believer were peer to be a committed believer is now turned away from the Lord why they turn away what what happened when the reasons they give what your perspective.

Or maybe your listening right now you're watching online, you're single. I was me.

I'm still listening to you but II doubt things I used to believe why let let us know 866-3487 84 and my purpose that is not to argue with you if you call in, my purpose is to gather information, understanding, and to the extent that she liked interact on. I'm happy to all right. What gets me on the subject today will, as always, we get prayerful reflection in terms of what to talk about on the year this past weekend I spoke in apologetics conference in Kalamazoo, Michigan Friday and Saturday great group of folks came together there this coming weekend. We got the big apologetics conference in Charlotte. If you haven't registered yet, go to SES.edu SES.edu find info there right on the homepage about you can still register.

I'll be doing two important sessions there and will be doing the signing of my Job commentary which is literally hot off the press were getting advance copies for the conference so will be talking about questions people have defense of the faith and things like that and then Saturday night I did a Skype interview with the skeptics and seekers group.

It's one man who's a believer, and he's made it known that came to faith by the year and 1/2 ago on my materials on answering Jewish objections to Jesus were instrumental in his journey, which were blessed to hear and then another gentleman who'd been in church for years and and is now left that and is is very hostile to the idea of God in the Bible as we understand him and understand the Scriptures, so it was great time. A very candid interaction. We had some real good pushback and they were candid with me and especially the skeptic heavily may I with him and I told him I love the pushback, but here he was saying, hey, I was in church for years.

In fact, those in a few different denominations. What was his relationship with God. I don't know I wasn't in his shoes, but along with that I was speaking with one publisher and they were really interested in exploring this question and and helping people who are struggling with questions of faith and how can we minister to them. So this is been on my mind and as I prayed and thought about things I didn't want to go on a totally political direction today so we we caught up on a few issues of interest, but will focus on this question of people losing the faith and last night I remembered reading something from Ravi Zacharias some years ago, so I went back to it and listen to this. This is posted in, in conjunction with his book has Christianity failed you, which came out what 89 years ago so here's here's what this is written about about this in 2006 Ravi Zacharias International ministries are CIM held open form at the Fox theater in Atlanta to address the subject has Christianity failed you tickets were sold for the event and to complete surprise of everyone in the event was sold out, with a capacity crowd of over 5000 people lined up offering to buy tickets for folks in line for higher prices before the event and RZ are CIM Karen walk the streets and asked people if they rejected the faith they held at one time one answer that because of a Christian's rejection of his gay lifestyle. He had done just that. Another answer that you left your faith because you fallen into adultery could never live it down. The church others have their own reason. Some said it was just intellectually untenable. In an age of reason they chose to come to the event to judge if there are adequate answers. It is estimated that for every one person writes letter attends the event their 1000 who agree the Olanta crowd was any indication. The question is real and troubling.

Why is it that many live with silent doubt, many leaving the evangelical fall for something else. This is something wrong with the message that communicated the here is that all three.

It's time to ask the hard questions of what it means to be a follower of Jesus Christ and why it seems as though God has made it so hard to continue believing affect the son of a prominent US senator from me with that very question. Why has God made it so hard to believe in him. Such skepticism is not just representative of the hospital also represents many honest questioners and then he goes on with the purpose of that book, attended to layout the response to those within as well as those outside the Christian faith was to understand what is we believe and why it is so hard to do so. So in thinking about potentially potentially writing this this book to it to help people are losing their faith or of lost their faith. Skeptics and seekers and doubters. I started to to compile my own list of why people fall away, but what if you seen what a view experienced some would simply say hey look, a lot of people have a form of Christianity and never knew the Lord and that's the problem I've no doubt that's true. I've no doubt that many people raise with a form of the gospel think that is Christianity. And because it has no depth to it because it doesn't transform their lives because it has no power to it because it doesn't change those around them that they see in the church that they think something can't be real and they they leave this thing including the Bible, including Jesus, including God, because Emily had it that they thought they did you know it would be like this if if all your life you were told that dog food was steak and everyone said steak is so good and steak is delicious and all of this in every time you eat steak it's dog food like I don't want to ever eat steak again.

The rest of my life.

We really have steak but you thought you did growing up in the Jewish home. I grew up and I thought that was Judaism.

I thought conservative Judaism was Judaism which I knew there were some Orthodox Jews in the next town I lived in a little town on Long Island call on the park over the bridge was Long Beach and I thought yeah my dad told me about them there. I kind of crazy like the capital, the dietary laws and strictly observe Sabbath so skunk fanatical where they lived over Long Beach over the bridge there and you know I will fanatical up. That's when I knew I thought our Judy that's that's Judaism and you show up you know few times a year and maybe show up on on the Sabbath. If you have to you come in late. Of course, and an is no real substance or or or strengths to it. Of course I can ask myself how how was this cute Jewish people for hundreds and hundreds of years how the Jewish people with this kind of religious commitments survive all the atrocities they survived through the years never thought of asking a question, but once I came to faith, then I began to interact with religious Jews and then I'll use it all okay that's that's traditional Judaism and that's that's the devotion that's the commitment that's required all okay I understand. And then when Rabbi was talking to is it okay now I understand that most people claim to be Christians are Christians of all the docket. Most of those in America. Consider Jewish phenomenally Jewish.

Many of those most in America. Consider Christian are nominally Christian.

So for many date as was well a pastor friend said decades ago. Reason people some people backslid is in every front slit was a never got truly converted so they say. I'm declaring that there were never truly converted but what about those who were truly converted who really did know the Lord who it as far as we can tell just like us, which they were mad love read the word love to pray the court sharing the gospel in all this and now they don't believe in all what what happened, why they're a bunch of reasons and and we want to get into some of those reasons may take some calls as well so will start on the phones. Let's go to Michigan.

Joshua walking to the line of fire are doing well thank you.

My what I've noticed are growing up.

Panic beamed hundred people leave the church I think leave dissolution know a lot of charismatic focus on a lot of weird things like angels gold and in one minute beautifully spirit active in our lives and a lot of merger no not very informed her out really poor knowledge of Scripture. And I think that's just been my experience with the charismatic faith unharmed.

So charismatic that you let me just testing this and I have no question that there are people that get into all kinds of flaky stuff and that have no grounding in Scripture. So of course they're gonna be easily picked off either by some cult or just some deceptive voices or get disillusioned.

But when you say you know many are into things like gold dust. I may not I will. I certainly wouldn't agree with that. This is something that is here and there and some meetings that 99.9% charismatic from the world would never experience everything for the think about, you know, so I would want to be that I would one exaggerate that inner critics will point to certain things as if it's mainstream, whereas it's it's snowing in in my 40 almost 40 years in the Lord now, I encountered face-to-face goal duster. Let's go, this one time. You know, and I've had of had a couple people asked me about it, but without question want to reaffirm what you're saying.

Many base things on experience more than the word many are or superficial or just looking for some latest revelation and because of that yet. It's very easy to follow. If were not properly grounded reason for it in in the same way, the flipside of the coin's or is that you have many non-charismatics that get into such an intellectual approach to Scripture and such an intellectual approach to Christianity that when the bottom falls out that they have very little experience with God is as one form or cessation of said for him. It was the father son and the holy Bible of the reality of the Holy Spirit was gone. So the key is the word and that the spirit of the being grounded in the word and being grounded in relationship with God and having a powerful relationship with God through the Spirit. That's essential and I just encourage anyone to answer this broadcast go through the book of acts and just note every time the Holy Spirit is referenced, you'll find that about 60×60 about 60 times and then asked over the book of acts look like if you took the Holy Spirit out and then notice what Paul says about the spirit in passages like Ephesians Warner.

Romans eight and see the importance of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer, but it's not either or both and flaky charismatics can easily be picked off because they're not grounded in the truth of Scripture is just looking for some other kind of experience Joshua, thank you for the call. I'm charismatic because of Scripture both add me like that. The line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown in the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown Chesterton, famously wrote the Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It is been found difficult and left on tried many people leave quote Christianity because they never really knew the Lord never really walk with Jesus. They never really took him at his word when he said to seek and and earnestly go after him that the did not do that they so that a convenience gospel where Jesus could add good things to their life and when good things didn't happen. They walked away. Well, maybe a never saved at all if they did know the Lord was superficial others. It's not the case, 86634 is number call. Why do Christians quote D convert a list that I just jot it down as a been thinking about this, and in recent days includes overly just see here what it includes. One thing is a lot of church settings. You can ask questions and if you doubt newly condemned with your doubts where you go with your questions with with your issues when you go okay I pray that we wish we really believe this person was can be healed. They died.

We really felt that God was can answer this when it didn't happen when you do when prayers are not answered when is it when it what you do in your theology doesn't seem to work you change your theology or do you abandon God to question yourself where to go with those things.

The problem of suffering. Just see so much pain around you people close to the site where was God. I mean this person was our child was in agony and we prayed for an hour and we prayed away and they were healed and in the painted light up and who I would not let that happen to my child. Where was God. Those kinds of things.

The seduction of sin some disk upholding by sin.

They pulled them in and now the either they can be self condemned or they can just believe any of this anymore wrong theology so we just asked think we push a button. Certain things happen. We push the button. That doesn't happen. We question God dealing with disappointment. We don't know how to deal with that.

Sometimes even in interpersonal relationships or bitterness and offense come in that that someone hurts us in a certain way or someone that we would pursue a relationship with pushes us away. And next thing we have a problem with all church sex, and we have a problem with the gospel church breaches actually have a problem with God.

That's another reason you may been hurt by abusive leaders may be people took advantage of in the church. Maybe it was worse. Maybe there was physical abuse may be your money was taken and think that those of the ministers, those of the pastors, those of the priests, the leaders ha so abusive leaders misrepresenting Jesus. That's another reason people following this this is Bronze Age God's bigoted book and you know that the Bible's teaching on on gay and lesbian issues and things like that. I decide I got to choose between my family or my friends in the Bible. It's easy I'll choose my family and friends of the those are those are some of the reasons that people fall away.

I let me say this. There is never a legitimate reason. Although it may be totally legitimate and that person's life in your life. It may feel legitimate, but I'm saying ultimately God has promised to keep us that he will. I have no question of said a few times and surely no doubt whatsoever that if we will throw ourselves wholly on the Lord.

She will keep us, he will keep us. I wholeheartedly believe that and I've seen people follow, even those close to me, but as of seen the come back ultimately they know the reasons they felt fell away that I can point a finger.

God, that much is clear. 866-34-TRUTH let's go to Connor in Spokane Washington. Thanks for calling the line of fire. They might think of me on, you bet a workable notice wanted to thank you for sending me a copy of bar and bargain bigoted duty tonight and it is an amazing read. It super heartbreaking and I wanted to thank you for sending a copy been a blessing on you very welcome sir, thanks for getting into and reading it. Okay, so I thought that you discussed a couple of the reason that I've noticed that that are brothers and sisters have fallen away, and I think a big one is that that the intellectual aspect of it is been pushed away for a long time and so anytime anybody has a doubt or question and all of a sudden you know they get shot down from the leaders you know the nonblood athlete, but all of a sudden they start to think that you know if this thing isn't strong enough to withstand any sort of resistance that it must not be real and you know another reason Connor that set some some people. Young just looking at a comment from a millennial. I know many people my age to drift away because they feel they aren't allowed to ask questions from a young millennial. One reason that some leaders don't allow questions to be asked is because they themselves are insecure medium that if if you asked the question that threatens their faith so that without you. Cannot you don't asked that so one reason that I love to open things up for questions and that when people come with questions as it is a great question.

I want to see it is a great question and I'm I'm confident enough in God having walk within these many years and and being bombarded with objections from day one Jewish objections and when I started college and university was always with people didn't believe what I believe that if any were religious they were religious Jews euro so I never study with anyone who agreed with me. So being costly chance like yeah I'm confident that if I don't have the answer we can find good solid answers together, but shutting people down for messing questions, yet gives the impression that if a man have to turn my brain off to stand his church were to follow God and I can't do that sums wrong with that or they just get discouraged because they need answers and and how little he can be goat going on is a hypocrite praising the Lord in church while struggling in their heart they just walk away, working yeah go ahead and then there were the morning.

It kind of been revealed to me lately and it the really conservative fundament fundamentalist reading of Scripture where all of a sudden you know everything it be taken literally, this that and the other and I think there's some nuance obviously to Scripture, and I think when when it either all literal or none of it literal, and there's a slight discrepancy. I think that can potentially push a new believer away and then honestly I think a lot of that the teaching of once they always think has hurt them people because they don't feed other conscience in Banyon they get born again and they fall right back into it though at the thing that does honestly a lot of damage in the body could not really backed by Scripture.

Yet all all of the above, sir.

I agree with you, and by the way, I remember a local gay activist in Charlotte raised in the church and said, hey, even from wrong us to go to heaven.

Even if I'm wrong, and being relationship with other men.

I pray depressed over the heaven to talk about abusing a doctrine that would be an example of abuse to Connor.

Thank you for calling this. Where the Bible intends to be taken literally, it speaks literally where it tends to be taken poetically or in some other way are metaphorically those of the expressions that uses we need to read it as it was written. Let's see we go to Jeremiah. Also in Washington. Welcome to the line of fire. Hello Dr. you will come in 2 to 5 of believers leaving their faith.

The one side is a group of people who regard to the direction of immediate attics to the Messiah believing but still getting the cube root and they learn about the deep study the deep Hebrew word in the strong passion and dive into this, which I enjoy personally, but then they hear one, two, maybe three or four things that are so far the acting denied the Messiah they don't even question anymore because it's down deep and it sound educational that the Iraqi photo Messiah completely because of their intellectual study without digging deep trying to reprove Messiah yeah let me just comment on on on that first I've seen it happen for decades. What happens is Jewishness becomes more important than Jesus. And I'm I'm 100% on recovering the Jewish roots of the faith of written whole books on it, hundred percent in favor of the messianic Jewish movement St. Hayward were Jews. We continue to worship God as Jews. But Jesus is our Savior and Lord.

She was the one that we following and were trying to point out the juice to him.

But what happens is special. Many Gentiles but happen have us Jews as well that you get into Jewishness that will that's an interesting traditional all. I never heard that her learn that and then so the pendulum but say it swung all the way over to forgetting the Jewish roots and completely replacing Passover with Easter is of Passover, and everything happened and it is Jesus Christ and and there's no concept of Christ means Messiah so it swings one way and then people recover Jewish roots and that's great helpful, but then it keeps swinging in the other direction goes too far. The way the Holy Spirit spoke to me 25 years ago was this the whole Jewish temptation is in the sole realm, so that realm of emotions in the mind the whole Jewish temptation is in the sole realm. It will fascinate stimulate, complicate, suffocate, so be on your guard.

So what we have to do is always keep Jesus issue of central sharing the good news with other central if if that's the case and in life in the spirit central then these other things can enhance to be beautiful, but when we start looking to rabbinic tradition rather than Scripture.

We start to get fascinated by Jewishness and all in and it has this appeal and it feel spiritual.

It's actually not and it can lead to backsliding and complete denial of the Lord yeah you said you saw another extreme the opposite direction or yeah so my life I have not wavered prepayment faith, but I can easily see our people could like it that I've studied the hero and I talked to churches who believe things that are different punch of combat water baptism being required works of salvation… Line of Scripture and I try to ask him about that. Thanks to the pastor or to the elders or deacons or whoever might be in charge of church and by going to church like a five year period. Trying to talk about going out little information sheet and there it will be flattered bond or email the like were not really interested or were too busy" excuse the one person told me what you just so smart.

But the Bible you'll feel intimidated about you.

I'm thinking I'm not that smart which Bible expressed right, but I was very diligent in kicking question answered. Following up and trying to make work is not like so much diligent and willing to spend five years of the life asking repeatedly by one they walk away yet that right. In other words, obviously we can't stop messing we use this ministry and answer every question for every person all the time but within the context of the local congregation. The pastor's large interrogation FF staff something to help people seekers as others did, they won't make the effort. The following at least nowadays the go online. Hopefully, a lot of answers are there right back. It's the line of fire with your host activist, author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown and voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 866. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown transfer money us on the line of 63487884's been talking about why Christians fall away. Let's just segue into related topic topic of messianic prophecy will go to Nathan in Georgia. Thanks for holding welcome to the line of fire. Dr. Brown so I think I knew struggling with this concept of messianic prophecy and I believe in the Bible and in everything but like pretending to like Isaiah 53.

For example, there's been a recent objection brought up that completely different than what most people would feed most people would say would be Jesus in the diet or it would be the nation of Israel, but new objection at the King's Diane I'll let you heard of that line by eight has a lot of different things that seem to back it up. Yeah 00 been many historical interpretations about individuals from from Moses to Jeremiah to specific Israelite kings to the nation of Israel to the righteous remnant of Israel to the size of Joseph to the Messiah, son of David, and combinations thereof. Isaiah 52, 13 to 15 speaking the size of Joseph's 53 one through 12 the righteous remnant did all kinds of variations like that, but no, it can't possibly refer to desire for quite quite a few reasons. Number number one. There's nothing in the text that with time remotely with him, beginning 5213 that speaks of them being highly exalted to the point that the nations will cover their mouths. There's there's nothing present, past, future that could possibly tie in with desire and in that regard. Another thing is your go head to say that the patient what where I got this from the trick is saying that may disclaim was saying that like when it comes to the translation can be opting really well explained away by very bad translations on certain carts like taking from crazing and judgment is just a very bad translation of taking from ruling and also like nonsensical deadline announces the first thing I'm starting at the beginning of the passage, which is 5213, which cannot possibly be applied to desire okay. He's not highly exalted.

There's no place will ever be highly exalted, biblical prophecy, to the point that the nations of the earth shut their mouths are. He was also not terribly beaten what he had a serious skin condition called leprosy labor was something different than Hansen's diseases. Leprosy as we know it.

That's one thing. Second thing is his smiting does not bring healing to anyone.

All right third thing is he was smitten for his sin.

Where's the servant to smitten for the sin of others. 1/4 thing he dies because of this, and then fifth thing he rises to.

There's nothing and his alleged bad translation.

I read in the Hebrew. And what you just claimed in terms of the better translation is is a complete violation of the Hebrew so this is this is very easily dismissed them in every point of it is wrong which is why you won't find rabbinic commentaries you will find scholars you will find serious student subscription agreement entertaining something like that system fringe interpretation.

Some is putting forward that is utterly worthless based on a careful study of the Hebrew I can utterly assure you of that in Zechariah chapter 10. Going back to the whole idea in upping smitten. Basically I and the punishment being on the King is references like like my anger is like against chapter and I will punish the leading male got to like the press is also saying that like you know the king take the punishment for the people in that regard generated by CA was smitten.

He was smitten because of his pride that he entered the temple to burn incense. He was judged by God for his sin.

Okay its exact opposite. I mean this person is is is pulling stuff that it it's complete nonsense of the argument that it's Israel of the righteous remnant, at least, that has some some scriptural basis that we have to address but this is complete myth.

What is it say that we saw him suffering and smitten, and thought he was suffering for his sin. He was set for our as he was suffering for his sin. The Bible is explicit on he was judged and and his and his son had to Coleraine with him.

So Nathan, this is really one that's not even worthy of your time to be honest with you it is so off-base, so twisting of Scripture and just read what the Bible says exactly about you desire and why he was smitten and then read exactly why the servant was smitten the servicemen for the sins of the people. And when God was angry with the shepherds executor attendance because the shepherds were sending where's the one in Isaiah 53 does no violence commits no violence, is no deceit on his lips. And God calls them my righteous servant, and he bears the sins of others. So you need to go ahead and sorry again that there is one my thing, I'd like to address the elegant deck and Chronicles chapter 26 or 22 except now the rest of the active desire first and last throughout my day at Bennett and the traffic sucks.

Okay I mean it. It's saying that Isaiah was writing about dieting highly not know this, that could be attributed to Diane Lee is saying that it can't refer to him. If I'm writing about Martin Luther King and then I in the midst of it. I tell you, but Mickey Mantle the baseball player that's on Martin Luther King, you know Martin Luther King was a baseball player and he was a black man and Mickey Mantle was a baseball player was a white man and they lived at the same time so it's it can't possibly and we know we know that that there references Isaiah 6 so Isaiah has a vision, the year the king is iodized and then some of the sins of Israel recounted if you look at Isaiah 11 that's what interfaces with desire but nothing in the text. I mean, what's so whatsoever he becomes close to. In fact, if there's one candidate you want to say could not possibly be him. It's desire could not possibly be desire if if you are single somewhat out. You know, so that thing is you got a look at with the Texas people come up with these theories and they sound catchy and slick all could be those impossible read Isaiah 52, 13 to 5312.

That's that the full Texas 15 versus read them out loud 10 times over read them in 20 different translations you see Possibly refer you side, he was smitten for his sin of pride and judged by God for an ugly active thinking that she could do what only the priests could do, and he's judged by God publicly for it and rebuked by God for it. And the Scripture was the servant of the Lord is highly exalted after going through terrible suffering which actually leads to the death and is not suffering for his sin for the sin of his people.

He himself is guiltless Texas variation, a sound that all right anything held you by the way. 15 you keep studying man. The key thing is don't be easily moved in other words, there's a reason we believe what we believe it's been through the text over again. But if any question ever comes up you can't get through on the phone just write to us and asked her to Brown.org and were very happy to help answer questions okay okay thank you, sure thing.

All right love to hear from callers like Nathan wonderful 866-34-TRUTH. Let's go to Chris in light of their let's go to Linda in Marietta, Georgia. Welcome to the line of fire. Ask a question about why Christian really asked the question but any like my relationship with Christ had eaten gotten a lot richer in the area. Coming in recovery about 30 years sparked a lot of people in the AA program and somehow walking with Christ and him in this relationship and it meant everything to me and and etc. it is a joy to be able to carry and connect instead of people that I'm not very educated, and I cannot very you know complicated question for that word of God, but I wanted to ask you about this thing.

Sometimes I have thoughts come into my head.

I think it from you and Sheena on it. You're going to die at been diagnosed with Kenya and you're going to dine in the anything there and you can delete and that I think that I wonder if people who maybe don't have richer relationship with deeper relationship with Jesus Christ that can pull them away trying to pull them off young could have little or no time assurance you finish in that way and go ahead and time frames typically unwitting IPL you train to take Scott and I will safeguard and I left it in and out except I know what the Bible you know before I came to the like. My great I'm not great but I can be selfish and the answer is to Linda and I'm just gonna just get a jump in IHV routing touch off but so I can answer you respond before the show was out. There is no question that there is spiritual warfare. There's an enemy there's a devil who wants to destroy us. Sometimes her own mind, just own tendencies on upbringing onslaught like things were exposed to puts negative thoughts in our heads, but there is a real devil who lies to us and we we must be close enough to the Lord and know him well enough to recognize when the enemies lying to us in the enemies trying to destroy us and this idea of being unworthy drives a lot of people away.

They don't understand God's love.

They don't understand that we approach the father through the cross. They don't understand that that we stand forgiven by the blood of Jesus and that through that holy boldness through the cross through it. He's done we come to God and he wants us to come to him, warts and all pain and all questions and all he wants us to come to him as beloved children. If we have that security that were loved because of God's grace because of the cross because he said his favor on us if we start there.

It's all so so many problems that we otherwise experience a Linda may God's grace be with you may experience his healing power may flood your soul with the confidence to enter into his presence at any time is a love daughter of God the friends we got a great interview coming your way tomorrow. Do not want to miss it and jointly Charlotte the big apologetics conference this weekend