TOPIC: Truths without the Truth—How Christians Should View Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro, Et Al?

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Christian should view Jordan Peterson and Ben superhero and others like them. That is a topical discuss today right here on the Christian worldview radio program for the mission is to sharpen the biblical worldview of Christian and to share the good news that all people can be reconciled to God.

Faith in Jesus Christ, I'm David Wheaton, the host of the program website is the Christian worldview.there is the pushback taking place against the ever-increasing totalitarian impulse of the left which seeks to redefine all that God has established regarding marriage sexuality, gender, individuality, freedom of belief, thought and speech which punishes or quote deep platforms. Those who dare dissent leading this pushback are popular thought leaders such as Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro, Dennis Prager, and others who hold tremendous sway with millions of followers who wash their speeches or videos and read their books.

They resonate with people from all walks of life.

Conservatives and liberals, libertarians, and yes Christians who see the tyranny of political correctness and identity politics. These men espoused degrees of truth, but none believe in the way and the truth and the life. Jesus Christ, in other words, they each have an intelligent and highly developed worldview, but not a biblical one that includes an accurate view of God, man Christ and redemption.

So how should Christian view these men in the front lines of the battle with cultural Marxism, which seeks to topple the oppressor of Christianity or simply make it irrelevant are they helpful allies are actually distractions to the gospel for joining us today is Travis Allen.

He is the senior pastor of Grace Church in Greeley, Colorado.

He was the featured speaker at the Christian review conference in 2016. He was also a former managing director of Grace to you and a former Navy seal now before we get to the interview with Travis. Let me just give some background on who Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro are in case you haven't heard of them are not familiar with them. This from Jordan Peterson's website. Dr. Jordan Peterson was 56 years old, is a professor of psychology at the University of Toronto is a clinical psychologist and the author of the multimillion copy bestseller 12 rules for life.

It was number one for nonfiction in 20 and 2018 in the US, Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Sweden, the Netherlands, Brazil, and Norway, and now slated for translation into 45 languages he lectured to more than 200,000 people across North America, Europe and Australia. In one of the most well attended book tours ever mounted his videos on YouTube featured Dr. Peterson's University in public lectures has 1.5 million subscribers with 70 million views of his videos derived from his online content, but others had been viewed more than 400 million times his podcast with more than 50 episodes has attracted 750,000 listeners per episode with 60 million downloads. His public lecture tour. The 12 rules for life tour has now covered more than 70 cities drawing 200,000 ticketed attendees now to his worldview. He is known for being against political correctness will get more into that today against identity politics from laws forcing the use of preferred pronouns for people who are transgender. He's against the push to emasculate men, the New Yorker, wrote his central message is a thoroughgoing critique of modern liberal culture which he views as suicidal in his eagerness to upend age-old verities and he has learned to distill his wide-ranging theories into pithy sentences, including one that has become is de facto catchphrase sort yourself out.

Paco politically Peterson is describe myself as a classic British liberal in a stated that he is commonly mistaken to be right wing. He is a philosophical pragmatist in the matter of his religious beliefs and whether or not he is Christian Peterson has emphasized that his conceptualization of Christianity is probably not what it is generally understood, stating that the ethical responsibility of a Christian is to imitate Christ for him. Meaning quote something like you need to take responsibility for the evil in the world as if you were responsible for it to understand that you determine the direction of the world weather is toward heaven or hell unquote. When asked if he believes in God. Peterson responded, quote I think the proper response to that is no. But I'm afraid he might exist unquote writing for the spectator. Tim Lott said Peterson draws inspiration from Young's philosophy of religion Carl Young and holds views similar to the Christian existentialism of Soren Kierkegaard and Paul Tillich. Lott also said Peterson has respect for Taoism as it views nature is a struggle between order and chaos and posits that life would be meaningless without this duality. Peterson is married and they have one daughter and a son that that was from probably from Jordan Peterson's website, probably from the New Yorker, probably from Wikipedia. Now let's move on to Ben Shapiro, the second person will be talking about today on our topic of truth without the truth how Christian should view Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro. This is from Wikipedia, Ben Shapiro is an American conservative political commentator, writer and lawyer is 34 years old.

He is written seven books the first in 2004, titled, brainwashed how universities indoctrinate America's youth. Shapiro begin writing this book. At age 17.

Also at age 17.

Shapiro became the youngest nationally syndicated columnist in the United States. Shapiro writes columns for creators syndicate in Newsweek serves as editor-in-chief of the daily wire, which he founded and host the Ben Shapiro show a daily political podcast and radio show skipping two grades third and ninth grades, Shapiro went from Walter Reed middle school to yeshiva University high school of Los Angeles where he graduated in the year 2008 16 he graduated summa cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa from University of California, Los Angeles in 2004 at age 20 and then cum laude from Harvard Law school in 2007 he begin the daily wire in 2015.

He's editor-in-chief, as well as host of the online political pop podcast, the Ben Shapiro show which is broadcast every weekday. As of November 20 17th. The podcast was downloaded 10 million times each month. Now to his views.

Shapiro's views them and describe the New York Times as quote extremely conservative. Shapiro, however, in a 2016 interview with the Rubin reports Dave Rubin describes himself as basically a libertarian. He accuses contemporary liberals of creating an imaginary hierarchy of victimhood and glorifying perceived victims, leading to identity politics has been called the voice of the conservative millennial movement.

He has three sisters. He married more Toledano, an Israeli citizen of Moroccan dissent and she is a doctor to get a David daughter and a young son and they both practice Orthodox Judaism.

So with that at some background on Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro.

Let's get to the first segment with pastor Travis Allen.

As we discussed how Christians should view men like these and others who hold viewpoints that we can sometimes agree with.

In light of the fact that they don't believe in Christ or the all sufficiency bottom-line truth of Scripture, Travis, it's great to have you back on the Christian roof.

Your radio program. Thank you for taking the time today.

I like to start out by reading a couple paragraphs from the most recent edition of the Schwartz report and it starts out by saying the first time you whip him or her. Jordan Peterson speak in a YouTube video. He thought his voice sounded like Kermit the frog's and like Kermit, this 56-year-old University of Toronto psychology professor was a skilled communicator hands gesticulating and browse furloughing as he spoke about personal responsibility and bearing one's suffering. At that time timber a 30-year-old data analyst from the Netherlands was battling suicidal thoughts, desperately clicking through streams of motivational videos for inspiration to live on and he says he found it in Jordan Peterson and that video Peterson was unpacking the meanings behind the biblical story of Noah and the flood be prepared. He warned become storms of tragedies are coming life you declared is quote really complex short finite full of suffering and beyond.

You it doesn't take much to suffer, but if you lie around, merely suffering then accumulates returns and the Dragon of chaos. It waits until you're not at your best, and then eats you timber was transfixed every word from Peterson struck close to heart. He had been doing exactly that long depressed mulling over how he had gotten the job he wanted, but still couldn't find meaning in it.

He was struggling with marriage and financial issues tension with his parents. He felt unhappy and directionless until he heard Peterson's challenge, pick up your cross and walk up the hill and used a profanity before saying cross.

Yes life is painful and unjust. Sorting to do about it accepted voluntarily and try to transform as a consequence, it's a message that falls far short of the gospel view the writer of this column writes but it spoke to Tim or nobody have been able to reach him and his darkness not even psychologist or his baby daughter, but for some reason Peterson did. The way Peterson use biblical stories to illustrate his points made sense to him. Story one more paragraph your Peterson is three hour lecture center on ideas such as one all human beings are capable of unspeakable evil, especially the name of good. Number two change starts with the individual. Number three ancient stories from the Bible to Egyptian mythology hold profound still applicable. Truth about human nature and life of Travis, I just give you a little snippet of who Jordan Peterson is will get into Ben Shapiro in a second and maybe to a somewhat lesser extent Dennis Prager all three of these are intellectual, philosophical thought leaders of our day who are pushing back against this totalitarian impulse of of the leftist cultural Marxism.

So my first question for you today.

Travis is why are Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro so popular and how they different than someone like more conservative political guys like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Mark Levine or Mark Stein when I remove and watch some of the videos and read the articles that are coming out about these guys and from these guys losing similar lectures, you notice a difference or contrasting two groups of socially popular thinkers and pundits, and I think I think the difference between Peterson and Shapiro is that they're actually going to need just the surface political conversation. I think you're going to need the day by day blow-by-blow Twitter verse kind of chatter and I think you're going beneath that to talk about things that are deeper underneath the surface, so I think her scratching where a lot of people are itching and I in a secular age. You know there's a spiritual vacuum that is massive and secularism cannot fulfill or satisfy all the longings and the cravings of the human heart is because God is put eternity into the heart of man, according to Solomon, Ecclesiastes, that's, that's exactly the way were designed. We are not satisfied with simply staying on the surface of a conversation we have to we have to understand issues of meaning and significance my link up with how Christians should view Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro another more conservative thought leaders who are believers in Christ, but with whom we do share some common values, much more coming up in the crystal review after this, I'm David David Wheaton here to tell you about my boys then story of love, loss and grace. Ben was a yellow lab and inseparable companion stage of my life when I was single, competing in the professional tennis to.

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I'm David Wheaton web. As always, is the Christian worldview.org our topic today is truth without the truth how Christians should view Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro and others are believers with whom we share some common values.

Our guest is Travis Allen the senior pastor of Grace Church in Greeley, Colorado. Let's get straight back to the second segment of the interview. Do you think that Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro. They have hundreds of thousands of followers on twitter, Facebook, millions of views of their videos and speeches.

There must be a lot of people who consider themselves to be Christians following them.

II know of some who are younger and really pay attention to what these guys are saying, what have you heard from being a pastor with maybe the younger folks in in your church or that you know you been playing among younger younger people probably found in my experience, effort to be more men than women, young men and young women. I think part of that comes out of the the academic and university environment where men are feeling more and more pushed to the margins and think continually assaulted and insulted just for the fact of being male.

Their terms like inter-sexuality, micro-aggression, toxic masculinity that are put forth in classroom settings and in other places as well. Also, not to mention to the LGBT Q etc. etc. you thought that pervaded the college campuses that is trying to find men from being men. And so men still emasculated in the public square like to Speak up and say anything. I personally witness this not too long ago and was taking part in ethics competition with his university and they were visiting colleges and universities, each with teams of students who were debating this coming a mile debate form ethical issues and especially on some issues.

Women were given the floor put on the pedestal, especially when it comes to issues like one question was asked about limits and the definitions of consent in a romantic relationship and it was the men were falling over themselves to try to put the women in the driver seat on the conversation. One of the one of the judges I thought judges were supposed to be unbiased, unprejudiced, but the judge introduced into the room. The concept of toxic masculinity and pose the question to one of the female's and she waxed eloquent about how much we have to have conversations in this toxic masculinity is assumed. This male patriarchy is an assumed un-debatable fact of human existence, and so the men I think so. Listen to that. I think that many of them don't agree the ones who do give verbal assent I think are doing so because it's it's popular. There's a peer pressure there's a fear of man issue going on there or if you're woman you might say there are many men who just sit back from that conversation.

Watch it happening and feel like they have no place at the table. So when they click on a Jordan Peterson or Ben Shapiro video that tells the challenges this idea of the assumed idea of this continuing male patriarchy that's that's held women down that's destroying women and upholding male power and dominance and violence against women just by men being in positions of authority. I think I find that very attractive, so I think there are young Christian men as well young Christian women were tired of that narrative and their findings at a Peterson Shapiro have a voice to push back against that.

What's really of the feel of an increasing totalitarianism from the left with us today in the Christian Realty radio program.

The senior pastor Grace Church in Greeley, Colorado.

He was also our featured speaker in the Christian review conference in 2016.

I like to play a soundbites of both Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro to solicitors have an idea of who they are, what they speak like what were some of the topics they speak on this particular Psalm but they were actually both being interviewed on a program I think it was by the Dave Rubin program in their sitting side by side there being interviewed about some of the contemporary issues of our day there talking to somebody about individuality versus communitarianism and I will display the soundbite let you comment here Jordan Peterson first but the first minute and 1/2, followed by Ben Shapiro. There really was an attempt on the part of the postmodernists and this is allied I think with their fundamental Marxism to demolish the idea of the autonomous individual.

So, for example, one of the things that's really interesting about the current free-speech debate is that it really isn't a debate because you have to be in the Judeo-Christian/Enlightenment tradition. To believe in free speech because to believe in free speech.

You have to believe that there autonomous individuals who have their own viewpoints who can spontaneously generate creative ideas and then who can engage in an active dialogue in and out in a manner that that is that consists of fundamental goodwill and truth and that you can change each other's opinions and that you can come to a negotiated agreement. You have to believe all of that including the autonomous individual in that concept the logos which is what Dirk Derrida was so so what he criticized so heavily that idea of local local centrism you to believe in the autonomous individual and the postmodernist and the new Marxists they don't. They believe that the individual is a mouthpiece for a power assembly and that there's no such thing as free speech, which is why the platform is not well, it is so the debate about free speech is way deeper than who should be allowed to talk to debate about free speech is whether or not there is such a thing as free speech outside the power game that neocolonial Europeans are plank and so what I'm doing and what you're doing with me and I think what everybody in the IDW was doing to some degree is speaking to people as if they are autonomous individuals who are the bedrock of civilization and sovereignty and that is absolute, and anathema to the radical left and so they they see that is a fundamental challenge which it is okay now will go next to Ben Shapiro so in that soundbite Travis were hearing from Jordan Peterson talking about no were not just a collective like the communist think of us were were individuals and we want free-speech and is based on that neither side doesn't believe in free speech so I think many Christians would hear what he saying there and think, well, I can agree with a lot of that Nellis gone to Ben Shapiro and see what he has to say and I think this goes to the fundamental conceit of folks on the left which that they are more synthetic human beings and people who oppose them politically or unsympathetic human beings in this goes back to the individual versus communitarian distinction (individual. This means that you are inherently unsympathetic to others because your individuality stands against the collective. If you remember the collective then you can show that fire the amount of sympathy that you have for other people and so I think but also for the collective is also very weird form of sympathy because the collective doesn't suffer individuals suffer right you know and that's it. And then the other thing that's interesting about that reflexive identification of sympathy with virtue is that it's actually extraordinarily immature. As far as I'm concerned because most complex problems aren't art solvable by reflexive sympathy, reflexive sympathy is more like it. It's more like an instinct. It's more like anger. It's more like jealousy or rage or love, for that matter. It doesn't have that cognitive component that enables you to take apart complex systems and to analyze them and determine what the problem is and what a solution might look like and then to lay that out in a cold and calculated manner toward some positive and it's this automatic assumption that because you're overwhelmed with pity. Let's say that that somehow makes you morally virtuous, and not only does it not make you morally virtuous. It's often the case that that this is the big Freudian observation that that all-encompassing pity actually has a devouring component and that's that overprotectiveness that while the Jonathan Hite and and Lincoln all have been writing about. For example, when it's very it's it's that interferes with the development of people's autonomy and so the reflexive idea that because you're a sympathetic person your good right is is bad enough. In addition to the fact that while all the sympathy is on the radical left, which it certainly hasn't no doubt these guys are intelligent there talking about the deeper things of life and I think they're diagnosing the left and that the cultural Marxism that seeks to impose its worldview on this country and specifically to try to undermine and topple the oppressor as they see it of Christianity. So neither of them are evangelical Christians, neither born-again Christians.

Ben Shapiro is an Orthodox Jew, Jordan Peterson asked when he does he believe in God is a well might take me a couple hours to answer that question certainly not born-again Christians but could she stay still say their allies of Christians when it comes to values because they're pushing back against the anti-Christian cultural Marxism of our day. That's all.

Some people would see them okay so stay tuned. Travis Allen will answer that question after this next break of the day on the Christian rule of your radio program just to clarify, were not picking on Jordan Peterson or Ben Shapiro were just using them as examples of our day and there are others beyond them who are Christians but are pushing back against the ideologies that are undermining Christianity and Christians in our society today. And remember the big distinction between guys like Peterson and Shapiro and other more political conservatives like Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh and others is that Hannity and Limbaugh and others like them tender despite the left versus right battles. Whereas Peterson and Shapiro are more at the ideological philosophical level, answering some of the big questions of life that really Christians in the church should be boldly answering both in the church and in the public square, rather than those who aren't believers who are really just borrowing from the Christian real for some of the nuggets of truth that they do say but also mixing it with lots of humanistic thought that is contradictory to a biblical worldview. So stay tuned. We have much more coming up with Travis Allen today in the Christian real of you. I'm David Wheaton, be sure to take advantage of two free resources that will keep you informed and sharpen your world. The first is the Christian world weekly email which comes to your inbox each Friday.

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As we talk about how Christian should view non-Christian thought leaders like Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro was get back to the interview. I think they're diagnosing the left and that the cultural Marxism that seeks to impose its worldview on this country and specifically to try to undermine and topple the oppressor as they see it of Christianity. So neither of them are evangelical Christians, neither born-again Christians. Ben Shapiro is an Orthodox Jew, Jordan Peterson asked when he does he believe in God is a well might take me a couple hours to answer that question certainly not born-again Christians but could she stay still say their allies of Christians when it comes to values because they're pushing back against the anti-Christian cultural Marxism of our day. That's all. Some people would see them absolutely here. I agree with you is just about sound bites. If you were to extend those soundbites and their hour-long videos and lectures to hear more the same.

I will read educated very articulate. Obviously, clear thinking, bold and in and in a sense they're simple to understand.

They speak, they speak with the with the humanity, especially live listener Jordan Peterson talked about that issue of sympathy on how it's the individual who suffers up a collective that suffers, and as he's interacting there was Shapiro and sometimes Jordan Peterson can sound so sympathetic some of described them like a philosophical father figure. I get that. He seems that you really gets the plight of the suffering of the modern age. So they sound like they are innocent allies with Christians pushing back against the liberal Marxist social totalitarianism that is really setting the narrative, not just for the left, but it's all through the universities and colleges. And that's really all the way down through primary education Ameritech, and there is vision so that I think why they're such sympathetic thinkers. That said, there are throughout their lectures. Many un-argued assumptions just like their philosophical opponents so went by pretty fast there. We might think we agree with this. Peterson spoke couple times about the autonomous individual. The autonomous individual pieces. That is the product of the Judeo-Christian worldview and is what gives us this concept of free conscience or free speech. That's why he pushes back against this Marxist collective consciousness idea that there needs to be the autonomous individual autonomy means self law at its root, and so the biblical position is not about the autonomous individual.

The biblical position is about the responsible individual or the accountable individual and it's our responsibility before a holy God who is our creator, lawgiver and judge our accountability to him that produces that concept of a free uncoerced conscience before a holy God to speak according to conscience that comes step truly comes from Scripture from old and new Testaments, but the autonomous individual is something that snuck in there is a product of the Enlightenment, not Reformation thing, but enlightenment thinking today in the Christian real you talking about truths without the truth how Christian should view Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro, and others who have had a is strongly pushing back in a more conservative libertarian way against the ever-increasing totalitarian impulse of the left in this country and around the world.

So what is the concern then Travis for Christians who love these guys who follow them, who are being influenced by them.

What's important to understand about their their worldview. What's really important understand that they are not true allies with the Christian worldview. They appear to be at least seem to be at a superficial level, perhaps, but I am really concerned for Welford for young people but for all people who find some some voice in these guys know. Again, I want to express.

I get it I II can sometimes cheer some of the things that they say that you're so clear and such as a bold, unapologetic pushback against the system. You might say that we find ourselves in today but my concern is that to close alliance with these types of thinkers and spokesman is actually an unnecessary and real distraction for Christians because it's only in Christ and Christ alone that Colossians 23 and him are hidden, not just most of the treasures of wisdom and knowledge, but all of them so finding Christ to be our champion Christ to be our spokesman Christ to be our example for all things. That's where I want to point Christians is to him and not to cultural social warriors like these guys even if some of the things they say sounds similar, I think we really need to not just on not just look at the similarities and we find sympathy with.

We need to look at the differences we need to see there are distinctions between the way we brought up the one with the autonomous individual. We do not. The Bible does not teach it. We do not want to teacher and force reinforcing anybody's thinking human autonomy.

We want to understand that we are under the law of God. That is the best, safest, most joyful place that the human conscience can be is underneath the law of God in Christ love God out of Christ, not in Christ.

That is a terrifying place to be as Martin Luther.

That was the part of his own testimony that drove him to Christ. But in Christ to be under the law of God into to live out his commandments, that is, that's a great joy in such ultimate freedom to have accountability and responsibility to him. You're not gonna find that in any system promoted by Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro some concern about that. There is a superficial feel-good experience that many people have as you follow the videos in the teaching of these kind of in-your-face pushback of the social warriors and they feel good for the moment, but the end of the day and I get like Colossians 2 says 223 they have only an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body in a year.

A lot of that in Jordan Peterson's just suck it up buck over whatever he will make your bed.

Life is suffering that used to make some of yourself. That's Colossians 223 right there but none of that has any value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh. That's my real concern the end of the day. Peterson Shapiro, they are just yet another dead end and that they will share an eternal fate with the leftists that they oppose so I want to want to turn Christians not to those thinkers so spokesman when I want to turn to Christ. Salvation in him and him alone with us today in the Christian real senior pastor of Grace Church in Greeley, Colorado is also the former managing director Grace to you and former Navy seal. I like to play another soundbite where Ben Shapiro gets into the idea of presuppositions. I think you can explain this Travis how understanding what presuppositions are in a couple other big words, metaphysics, epistemology and ethics how those three things are the foundation for every worldview, so let's listen to the soundbite by Ben Shapiro and then I'll follow up with a question thereto using enlightenment. One is that in Jonah Goldberg's words.

It was a miracle that he penned his head spring from nowhere. Suddenly, reason dominated of revelation and crushed revelation and in the wake of that crushing came the full flowering of economics and humanity and freedom of liberalism and those things were opposed, reason, revelation, or that these were an anomaly that the intention they were falsely opposed to theirs.

For that reason, revelation, our intention, but is also true. Certain assumptions undergird the assumptions of reason to believe that reason exists and is just a evolutionarily favorable firing of neurons, then you have if you if you'd like Sam's position and objective truth exists in the absence of anything remotely approaching a a a system of assumptions is unsupportable excluding insupportable.

I think that I think because you are billed to create more little copies of you reminisces evolutionarily speaking what you are created to do that has to do with discovering objective truth is utterly beyond me.

My cell at the end and what happens with the existence objective for than any in any case, enlightenment is based on certain fundamental assumptions based on the idea that you can act as an individual freely by making rational decisions in a predictable world of loss right.

I'll follow every one of those assumptions is ungrounded in a world of pure scientific determinism. It just doesn't doesn't exist. So what happens and that's what I'm seeing right in the enlightenment was and I think the easiest and conscious Dienst counties. All the species that this trouble is coming and so he attempts to reinject religion and spirituality and dive back into a moral system without actually saying so is not actually Scott is actually trying to create a rational basis for Christian revelation and Christian reasoning so that he can avoid the trap of having to cite the Bible but he couldn't say that all of this makes sense anyway okay Travis there was a lot in that particular soundbite night. I know you're speaking is such kind of a high intellectual level, hard to follow but some of the things that I heard from that soundbite from the standpoint of the difference between reason is just that comes in the mind of man versus revelation, that which comes from Scripture and then he talked about that you can have these objective truths in life without having some assumptions some presuppositions, like Pierce explained that and finally he talked about Immanuel Kant, the philosopher of way back when, who tried to take revelation of Scripture and input reason to it. So people wouldn't have to say the Bible says there is there is reason to believe in the revelation. What we need to know with regards to presuppositions, metaphysics, epistemology and ethics as related to the Christian really that we should have all right get ready to put your thinking cap on. As Travis Allen answers that question after this next break of the day in the Christian real view. I'm David David Wheaton here to tell you about my boys then story of love, loss and grace. Ben was a yellow lab and inseparable companion stage in my life when I was single, competing in the professional tennis to. I invite you to enter into the story's tapestry of relationships within my aging parents, child, friend. I would finally marry, and ultimately with God caused all things, even the hard things to work together. Order the book for your friend who needs to hear about God's grace in the gospel for the one who is gone through a difficult trial or loss just a dog lover in your life signed and personalized copies are only available@myboysand.com or by calling one triple H646 2233. That's one 88846 2233 or my boys been.com there is an abundance of resources available in Christian bookstores and online that reality is that many of them even some of the most popular do not lead to a sound and strong faith. The aim of the Christian world is to identify and offer resources that are biblically faithful and deep in your walk with God in our online store. We have a wide range of resources for all ages, adult and children's books and DVDs, Bibles and devotionals, unique gifts and more so browse our store@thechristianworld.org and find enriching resources for yourself, family, friends, small group church can also order by calling our office toll-free at 1888 646-2233.

That's one 88846 2233 or visit the Christian worldview.more. Today's program was previously aired, while the content is relevant some of the announcements may be dated for current ministry news and offers the Christian world view of the day here in the Christian worldview radio program sure to visit our website Christian worldview.or delivery meaningful gift at this time of year, or if you missed any of the interview Travis Allen today we have a full segment ahead to look at straight back to the interview Travis Allen the difference between reason is just that comes in the mind of man versus revelation, that which comes from Scripture and then he talked about that you can have these objective truths in life without having some assumptions some presuppositions, like Pierce explained that and finally he talked about Immanuel Kant, the philosopher of way back when, who tried to take revelation of Scripture and input reason to it. So people wouldn't have to say the Bible says there is there is reasons to believe in the revelation.

What we need to know with regards to presuppositions, metaphysics, epistemology and ethics as related to the Christian world view that we should have backed away from that say that everything one of them have a worldview. We have an understanding of how we got here what happened. What went wrong with the world how it gets fixed. Where were going where history is heading.

We all have an understanding of those of those things of the world you it's it's it's what you might call a metanarrative or something like that and at the basis of that worldview. Even if we don't unpack better look carefully examine the foundations of it is a view of metaphysics.

Metaphysics is a fancy word for issues like ontology you know what we understand about being the nature of being what we are is as individual human beings who God is and what he is is a is a divine being angels all the rest. We have an understanding of cosmology how everything the cosmos is ordered how it got started with the nature of it is that's all in metaphysics we have an understanding of epistemology, how we know what we know how we think and reason.

One of the limits of human knowledge. We all have an understanding also then coming out of that of morality and ethics that which is right and wrong with our world. Our standard of moral law is and then how we work. That standard of moral law out in our practical day-to-day decisions. Is it okay to must we always tell the truth. Further exceptions to that.

Can we at times lie like when the Nazis are knocking on our door, looking for hidden Jews. Is it okay to live in that circumstance must we always protect the weak disadvantage or can we take advantage of the weak, those are all ethical questions. Love the questions that you hear in the public discourse today are not examining any of those foundations they are people shouting back and forth at one another, whether it's on twitter, Facebook, whether it's on your media outlets there shouting at the level of ethics what they think and perceive to be right and wrong, good and bad. Most beneficial for society are most damaging and destructive to society.

That's the level that their arguing on but the ethics are built on the understanding of morality.

Morality is understood is based on a on a view of epistemology, how we know what we know and all that is based on metaphysics specially ontology and cosmology in that soundbite you heard Ben Shapiro getting down.

This is I think one of the reasons why he and a guy like Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson are attractive to to people is because they are actually dealing with some of these issues that are there so glossed over in most of the public discourse. That's an angry discourse these days that people are tired of that may want to get down to actual thinking and reasoning and so that's what that's what Shapiro is talking about debates with Sam Harris Sam Harrison atheist in his empirical materialist evolutionist.

He does not he denies the supernatural. He denies the existence of the immaterial spirit he believes all that exists with most of the ancient this goes way back.

All existence atoms always existed matter and matter know that the real logical filter of those I will problem with that is it.

If you believe that all that existed matter. You gotta go back to the point of origin say where did matter, and so you you get into the problem of this law. This this infinite regression of matter that matters, eternal matter itself is eternal and so you're assuming something of matter that it cannot support the other problem with this atheistic materialism. Strict empiricism is that it cannot explain everything else in life like why we have standards of right and wrong why we have a sense of beauty and love words poetry come from one of these expressions come from nothing about the evolutionary worldview can give a rational explanation of any of that. Ben Shapiro's pointing that out. Going back to the Enlightenment and the reason versus revelation. As Christians we do not see reason and revelation as opposed to one another. We believe as Christians in this goes back to our understanding of epistemology and metaphysics we go back to the central truth of the Christian world view is the triune God the father, God the son God the Holy Spirit, infinite, eternal, simple, immutable, impassable God omnipotence and omniscience on the benevolent omnipresent. This God who is by nature pure spirit who is the source of all being, who is the start of the origin of the universe.

He is the creator of the lawgiver and the judge and it's out of him that comes revelation general revelation and creation conscience.

The law of God written on every human heart and then special revelation in the old and new Testaments of the holy Bible revelation. Christians believe our reason must be subject to revelation, we reason from a from a standpoint of very strong standpoint of believing and trusting in the word of God and what he revealed.

So, reason and revelation are not opposed to one another, but revelation supports and is the basis of all rational human thought so these two thinkers don't necessarily think that I think Ben Shapiro is trying to say something like that, but they're really saying that reason, revelation or postponement now in the Enlightenment you know that what I just described about revelation being primary and foundational. That is the Reformation point of view. The Enlightenment project borrowed and stole some of the Reformation ideas that were swirling around the cultural ethos of the time and they want to set God aside and see promote human reason units and this is again Jordan Peterson's comment as the autonomous individual individual who is a law himself and his reason was that we reason is what guided all the visions by feeding and supporting expressing exercising human reason gives us all the wonderful things you have been Shapiro was contrasting that with the Judeo-Christian worldview wasn't the Enlightenment that brought us those benefit talks about the iPhone technology in medicine dollars will all right that's all we have time for today.

Thank you for joining us on the Christian world view part two is next week so hope you can join us for that. In the meantime, remember, think biblically and live accordingly. We hope today's broadcast turned your heart toward God's word and sought to order a CD copy of today's program or sign up for our free weekly email or to find out how you can be reconciled to God through Jesus Christ go to our website the Christian worldview dawdle. Call us toll-free one Tripoli 646-2233. Christian worldview is a weekly one-hour radio program that is furnished by the over comer foundation and is supported by listeners and sponsors request one of our current resources with your donation of any amount go to the Christian worldview dawdle. Call us toll-free one Tripoli 646-2230 3.2 SF Box 401, Excelsior, MN 55331 that's Box 401, Excelsior, MN 55331. Thanks for listening to the Christian world view.

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