Nirvana Album & Child Pornography and What Is A Special Master?

This week on the outlaw lawyer, Josh and Joe remote and to discuss the law and how it affects everything around us.

And as always here on the lawyer. Our attorneys tackle all the urgent earning legal questions such as what is special master to the band Nirvana create child pornography and it NC State get lucky and football for a change. That's all coming up next on the outlaw, allow your now no longer welcome into the outlaw lawyer posted by Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer managing partners, Whitaker and Hamer law firm office is conveniently located in Raleigh, Garner, Clayton Goldsborough, Fuquay Marina, Gastonia and now Morehead city. They are pricing attorneys here in North Carolina and we talk legalese each and every week I Morgan Patrick consumer advocate if you got a legal situation that you are facing and you have questions. I got a phone number for you 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186 liter contact info briefly what the calls about an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch.

You can always email your questions to the program questions@theoutlawlawyer.com and please check out that website is a good one. The outlaw lawyer.com alright gentlemen, let's get into our conversation. It's a light sparring as we open up the show. What's on your mind right now Morgan you know your Della lawyer would like to talk about the law. That's what we're here for. Talk about legal news legal items answering listener questions about the law were lawyers but we never seem to start out talking about the law shows, either singly or something. We always have to get to an end this week we had college football come so we had college football. We had all the local teams in action. That's the game was a lot of fun for me was a tough state game to watch on if you guys so I got a CLS so I got to see a little bit and and tell me how brave I was right.

I met my son is 22 Carolina fan like like his dad and we went to the brick house. It is on Hillsboro Street right across from Meredith College in the old Wonder Bread factory beautiful's horse bar location. It's owned by believe it or not, some Ohio State alums and the big booster club for the buckeyes meets there, but there also a State Bar so we get there. It's a noon kick for both games. You and see at Appalachian and NC State is down. I am Grable taken on the pirate so we get there in the place is almost full.

Everybody's wearing their gear. I walk in with a Carolina blue golf shirt on. On the only one in there not wear in red, white, or neutral color. I sit at the bar with my son.

We have two TVs and he's like, whatever you do, dad. Don't ask the bartender manager to put the Carolina game on unlikely talking about a gorgeous sports bike. Instead, this is State Bar when all these people are watched data go well believe it or not, I guarantee you everybody in this bar would love to at least have a couple of TVs on the Carolina game so they can watch Carolina lose and the manager looked at me and heard me say that he goes your right which TV would you like and we had we had state on our TV to the left and we had Carolina and Appleton are to be to the right and we had a wonderful time and to be in a bar that is that packed in that focus not only on the state game but also the Carolina game. It was like being at the football game.

I mean they were absolutely raucous. It was a great atmosphere. Anyway, I digress. Dots also I I was at the house at the Lakes is watching it with the boys and I gave up on them and I had to go to go outside this little take my mind off of it so my boys continue to watch the game and they came and tell me what happened was I was just crazy. I just knew that I just knew that it was lost but yeah yeah it said it was a tough one.

Joe you you said you watch the second oh Josh, I did see the state game actually did see the state game and not tell you. I thought it was hilarious. It was a real you know is that it was a competitive game. All the credit in the world to the fans in Greenville. Fantastic atmosphere, fun game to watch, but really down the stretch. A true comedy of errors in it was you know there were great plays but they were offset by terrible place and it was like who wants to, you know it it just seem like state wanted to lose this game and and in it seem like they were well on their way to staking it up and having one of those classic NC state moments man and all I could hear in my head as I'm watching this game and like you I thought I thought state was going to lose it.

Just terrible clock management down the stretch to some real scratch and type decisions and I all I can hear is is your voice in my head hey hey Joe was a Dupree glass by the media and the ACC preseason poll. This was a little bit in my head you I reminded you at that point, like a Josh you need to be careful man to these high expectations for your your beloved NC State Wolfpack.

You know we've seen. They have a way of crushing your hopes and dreams and and that's how I thought things were going. What I think thing. I went on record saying we don't always trust your NC State fans we don't trust ourselves, and I knew that would be exhibit a. This, but I get kudos to TCU man at the team I'm interested with a team does because I definitely played down, but that is a test of your fun team to watch hope they update well.

I feel bad for that kicker you know anytime you see kicker do that. That's always IOP bounces back and has a great year. I did not see that Carolina game I heard about the Carolina game did not know the one hand that's another one with some head scratching decisions you know I watch that game back. I kept an eye on both state game ended with enough time to catch the end of the Carolina game and so you not say I was watching that game. If you didn't see a Josh was nuts. I think there was there was I think at state alone score was like six touchdowns in the fourth quarter, 40 point just insanity but I tell you what have I knew so at state they score I think is like a minute left a score they can kick a field goal to tie it or they can go for two they go for two gas wide literally wide open so is wide open as you can be and quarterback not really under pressure frozen the ball over his head with sonnet misses it heartbreaking moment for app state so they come out there down one less than a minute to go, they kick the onside kick and doesn't go quite 10 yards after Carolina scoops it, and in no timeouts at this point all I really have to do is he takes a knee. He falls down and bounds and out about doesn't matter, it's it's it's new down think they could need to clock out the games over, he instead runs it all the way in start, Showboat celebrates they get an unsportsmanlike penalty and they go up by eight applied to get this penalty. So it is soon as it happens man I knew I was like that's this game it's working like they haven't been able to stop score again and it's funny because the announcers the announcers.

It took them a while you once the extra point was kicked one of the announcers like you.

That's the games to score game and they realize you little weight know it's only eight points. Love your listing if you were listening to the UNC broadcast.

You probably weren't. You could hear the just this means just that the worry in the tone Jones Angel and in the entire booth there like what is going on. I mean it's like the game should be over and there's got to be an opportunity for Appalachian State to to get the victory in Ontario just absolutely it was off instantly just a freak show defensively. There a lot of question marks on both sides of the ball but it was right it was 63 to 61 fellas.

There were there were 62 points between the two teams in the fourth quarter, which I was surprised to find out that's one shy of tying the record, I don't know the record, but the fact that there's there's more points in the fourth quarter in Division I history is amazing to me but we left where we were watching the game probably early third quarter thinking you know what this is going to be. This can be pretty much done Carol Owsley going to win and Appalachian just came all the way back. So kudos not only to abstain, but to the town of Boone. They did an amazing job posting 45,000 football fans on Labor Day weekend.

Congratulations. That's crazy added what I did. Actually, this isn't just as it meant to be a jab artist and see what was the Duke yes I did watch that do game Josh not knowing what to expect, that as a Duke fan.

Lotta disappointment in my in my life, watching to football some recent happy moments but you do new coach coach Elko highly touted a lot of positive buzz around the program of like what I've seen, but again you never really know. And so you see the game and they play Temple who's not like a true power five opponents of again temper the expectations but I think all things considered, went about as well as it could. The defense look fantastic.

They have a shut out for the first time in a long time I get the power five opponent quarterback went back think 15 for 15 to start the game to score 24 points in the first half again they record the shut out. Second half, you know, take your foot off the gas don't don't you have the same success, but very difficult to complain about really anything in the opener other than the crowd. We always complain of the crowd and it's hard to blame. You know the true Duke fans who seen so many disappointing and and and tough moments, but hopefully there will be some sustained success. You know, Duke plays Northwest Northwestern this weekend who had a win over Nebraska hard to say how impressive that went was because it's difficult to say how good Nebraska really is.

But that'll be a much more interesting test in a much more interesting barometer of of where Duke is the outlaw lawyers Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer, Whitaker and Hamer law firm where you can find there. The managing partners. They have offices in Raleigh Garner Clayton Goldsboro Fuquay free to guess Tony and Morehead city. They are pricing attorneys here in the great state of North Carolina guys are working to get into a lot of different topics.

Today we have some fun at the open of almost every single show when it comes to nonlegal topics and were all college sports fans, so we usually start there. But I had a question for you and you both can chime in. Why do you do the outlaw lawyer, you know, that's a good question, Morgan. We started this about it I guess was been about a year ago. Now maybe year and 1/2 that we been doing this but we we got to be a good vehicle for the firm to route to really discuss like legal news of the day in a non-political way right so we know me and Joe, and every bite appears in the show. We have our political leanings, but I think we this day and age it's it's really helpful to have, you know, lawyers, attorneys can take a look at some of the stuff in the legal news and comment on me for lack of a better word, the legality of what's actually happened. You know and that's what we try to do. We also try to answer some basic listener questions to help your people answer. Maybe some common legal questions that that they encounter. But that's the best kind. The purpose of our show.

I was out in the general public's mind talking to me about the show.

I don't think they've made it through the whole show before there like what we as a sports talk is that we were trying to do.

Yeah, he's into the legal you can't. You can't just jump into the leader yet to ease into the tough. You got you guys have personalities outside the office and I think that that lends to just the entire note, the feel of this show your your estate franchise near a Duke fan Jeremy, Nick and I went to Carolina, Carolina fan so there's there's just this know it's a trifecta of you know the players that are on the air every single week. But when it gets down the legalese mean that's why you're here so we talk about movies and television makes it up. That's my promise to her listener. If you hang in there with us. We will eventually talk about the law exactly man well let's eventually get to it and let's take a break will be back on the other side and I believe her to talk about one of the greatest rock bands Nirvana they're not in any kind of hot water, but it's an interesting question that is pose will talk about that coming up on the other side. Yellow lawyers Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer your house. They are the managing partners, Whitaker and Hamer law firm they are pricing attorneys here in the great state of North Carolina. They have offices in Raleigh Garner Clayton Goldsboro Fuquay Marina Gastonia and now in Morehead city. If you have a legal situation you're facing you have questions you can always call the firm 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186 leave your contact information briefly what that calls about an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch. You can always email your questions to the show will answer them on a future program, leave your name out of it, but you can get the answer that way you can email questions@theoutlawlawyer.com will have more legalese discussion coming up on the other side. Clayton Marina, Gastonia and now in Morehead city.

I Morgan Patrick consumer advocate we talk legalese each and every week. We also have some fun. But if know we get into the serious topics as well. In the first one up. We all remember Nirvana.

Their first album that really went big had a picture on the cover and apparently really talk about it, Nirvana and naked babies, gentlemen. Yes, that's what I titled this segment.

So this is come up a time or two before, but the story, the story right now is the baby on it Nirvana's. I remember that 91,000 early high school for me. I remember when I came out as up until then you know what I want to hear metal out there and then Nirvana got to change that, brought the grunge on that was a big album. I think that's all they've sold over 30 million Buddies familiar with the nevermind album from Nirvana, 1991 Jason later that you know about that nerve Nirvana is that a Hindu man in your man well familiar. I don't know how you can be my age are you not only how you could not be familiar with. With that, so you'll you'll recall that album covers kind of an iconic album cover.

Yes, it's gotta baby exit morale. It's a it's a baby right it's underlings on lotteries and use you the genitals of the baby you you can see right I guess that's it's it's a naked baby front and center in anything that baby boy baby boy correct baby boy let's bow here. It is a baby boy and answer Spencer Eldon that's the name of that baby and he is now 31 years old, which is which is hard to process that that that baby could be 31 years old but he as sued Nirvana or the surviving members of Nirvana. Cobain's estate is done this about once or twice is been a couple lawsuits pertaining to this but the most recent effort was under a law that I was not super familiar with. But Marshall's law I can. I might be pronouncing that it's named after victim of child pornography. So it was a federal law that is giving victims of child pornography. A way to sue the folks who created the pornography or traffic that are distributed. It for civil damages and so that's a big new stories he filed against Nirvana saying like a you know I was. This was child pornography.

It was distributed 30 million times and its chain have suffered damages and what have you but JVC mysteries is this is not one that I could build into it yesterday that I wasn't super familiar with this lawless federal law, one to know more about it.

It's kind of crazy story will Josh, you know, I haven't seen the story.

Not ashamed to say my social media algorithm doesn't pick up the hot words child pornography rights not saying that's how I came upon your smear but no habit about this very relatable story, because I have actually was a naked swimming baby boy at one point in my life so you know I can and its ears the thing man at the time. You know that what you said iconic album cover. I don't really recall that giving me Paul's at the time, like seeing it at the time. In the context like you think about today like so you got a random naked baby like the picture on your phone like that's a substantial issue for you right, but I had a CD that you said purchase by millions of people.

So it's an interesting thing man and I think it's a it's it's interesting to look at the changes in societal norms and things like that to just to give you some background again and I said this before but there's a way to miss pronounce your name I'm in a find it so I mispronounce your name know that I've done it to a million people before you but but matches law is a federal law from 2005. It was named after a five-year-old orphan who was adopted as a Russian orphan who was adopted by an American man who got convicted for producing sexually explicit images of her and what it allows the victim to do is to sue the person responsible they don't want there is enough to be a criminal conviction but but they would have to proven in a court of law that this was done in this person was responsible. There's no conviction but has a statute of limitations in its 10 years after the victim turns 18 or 10 years after its discovered the violation of injury.

So whatever happened 10 years after it was should reasonably be discovered and looks like Mr. Eldon's lawsuit was kicked out of federal court because the statute of limitations had passed as he should reasonably knowing about it when he was 18 years 10 years – limitations after you turn 28 you get to the merits anymore right when a lawyer when a lawyer sues under something like this under statute. The statute, lays out what you have to prove yet, if you don't even get to the basic elements of of something special.

Limitations just just kicks you out so they got for now, he's appealing. It is our attorneys are arguing the session limitations is unfair and may be adding their example was enough sunlight created to stop pornography. They can just wait out the statute of limitations and then you know not have any civil liability course or so be criminal liability of civil liability for it so it's again is interesting is interesting statute. I was not very familiar with until this came up, but yes, interesting jokers. What I remember when it came out like I do remember thing and it was kinda but it was odd, but it did not did not shock me like if that if that were to come out today that would be it wouldn't come out.

I guess as you pointed again rated immediately. That's not I can't recommend if you have a band if you're one of our listeners and you got a band you're put not your first album, to go ahead and get an official legal advice. Don't put a naked child on the cover. That's a that's gonna be my advice to you, but like you said they didn't consider the merits because the statute limitations issue and I know you mentioned that the potential criticism of folks saying that you could just wait this out, but but it's important to to remember the statute of limitations here it's it's from it.

If the person has to have not.

You have to know about this thing happen and have to have knowledge of it. So that's I think there would be a protection from someone just like you said film in this taken this and then wait that out.

In this case they didn't get to the merits, but if you look at the merits. You know the. The law requires your personal injury or some type of damage in that sense and I think the loggers for Nirvana. They were trying to argue that the loss it's basically a money grab and that rather than this being something that calls that the individual Spencer Eldon damage they're saying he actually embraced his part in the band's history and you could say will how can they say that you that's that's very speculative. How can you say that this guy really embraced his role is that and I think if you look you look at the fact that he literally has the album title tattooed across his chest and he re-created the image for the band that the 25th anniversary of the album you look at those to two pieces and it's it's tough to say that you know he's really suffered lifelong damage as a result of this now get you don't ever want to speculate as to what someone's gone through, especially in a situation like this, but two very interesting tidbits that speak to the impact this is had on him for like Mr. Eldon's to his parents as parents of the monster signed off on this right. I would imagine that it is the fact that like say it out deliciously theoretically. Josh your your naked baby you as a naked one-year-old run album cover and it comes out in million see it how you make that connection that is even you in the first place and I couldn't pick you as a naked baby out of a lineup of a thousand naked babies Josh, I don't. I don't know you deafly don't want to. We know we going to make light of anybody who's who's obviously this this law exist because there are a lot of victims out there but again I don't know Spencer and with Mr. Eldon. He has, I always say turned into the skid right so whatever you notice this may have caused him some emotional trauma. What have you, buddy deafly did embrace it and the statute of limitation thing is cut derived rights – limitations you know I always use the example Joe you sell me a car and I don't like it. It's a contract issue I see you breached this contract under three years to see you if I don't do it. That's it. I can't there's not there's nothing else to do in session. Limitations exist, you know, just just for that and is, but you have an odd statute. You know trying to help folks who have been victims of crime and a very very serious crime and so it's admirable that existed yeah I don't know the session limitations of serving the purpose of the statute. I don't know what they're trying to to protect they might have a good that he might have a good argument as far as you getting statute limitations changed or ruled on unconstitutional but and yet doing so getting it out merits and I think it's gotta got an uphill battle for sure.

Yeah, I think you can have issues on the merits. Even if you get past this issue in with the in of the statute of limitations you. This is a situation where there was no this wasn't something that he didn't. He didn't know about. He what he didn't have any knowledge of like like he said he knew about this it there. This is maybe what this might be the most famous naked baby image that I can think of in our time like it's not not something that crept up on anyone.

That was unheard of. He knew about it for the satiety.

This entire period and and rather than than making an issue of it at any point. He actually kind of like you said leaned into it and and so it I think on the merits could be a tough sale, even if they they beat the statute limitations issue the outlier's Josh Whitaker and SchellHamer Whitaker and Hamer law firm. You can find them at all of their offices there everywhere. Raleigh Garner Clayton Goldsboro Fuquay Farida Gastonia and Morehead city.

They are the managing partners of the firm and they are practicing attorneys here in North Carolina so one topic down Nirvana and it naked babies again. The Spencer Eldon versus Nirvana case. Next up on the programmer to get into what is special master.

That is what is a special master reminder if you got a legal question of your own and you need an answer you can get in touch with Whitaker and Haber by calling 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186 leave your contact information briefly what that calls about an attorney with Whitaker and him will be in touch and you can always email your questions to the program will answer them on a future show questions at the outlaw, all I are.com check out our website de outlier.com back with more outliers right after this and have offices in Raleigh Garner Clayton Goldsboro Fuquay Farida Gastonia, and now he and Morehead city. I Morgan Patrick consumer advocate. If you are facing a legal situation. If you have a question you can always call Whitaker and Hamer.

It's 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186 leave your contact information briefly what that calls about an attorney will be in touch from Whitaker and Heyman. You can always email your question to the program questions@theoutlawyour.com all right. What is a special master Josh away so Morgan we have it on the Hillel lawyer we as we mentioned earlier and are in our opening segment we don't like to politicize anything we talk about you law the lawmaking process the legal process the court process needs to be unbiased right you know any time. Politics filters are way into the legal system. It's it's not good so we discuss items on this show that we know that they're politically charged. We know that yes your far left Democrat or far right Republican.

You may interpret the results. You know the like. Supreme Court decision. You did the abortion the Dodds case is a good example talk about that. A lot of the show. That's obviously got political implications, but we we took a look at the lawn with the justices were saying what they were relying on it. Prior decisions like that's that's kind of the purpose of this ship and so I really want to talk about this on the show, but I figured we would bring it up this just so heavily featured in the news, but you know former Pres. Donald Trump's is his residence or one of his residences main residence was that the FBI got worn course alleging that he had privileged information that he was holding their and say they I got a warrant, they search for what they were supposed to search for took stuff out of the home and I've been unprecedented in a lot of ways right at the to my knowledge hasn't really done that to a former president and so obviously this became a big story and depending on your political leanings. You probably have a different interpretation of of what's going on so far legally. Besides being unprecedented, like that of the legal part of it makes sense rights that really the feds got a warrant just like they would for me here you are Morgan and they went me carried out their search so that the search itself is not fascinating for an attorney. I don't think it's fascinating that it's never happened to her president before it's it's fascinating on how it's being reported and how it's being received. But I want to spend a lot of time on that on the show what what actually got me to finally want to talk about is because I kept hearing the term special master right it was driving me crazy Joe, have you been following this of you. Have you seen this special master language, yet you know you said a lot of words manner.

They were beautiful words, but I think to some. To sum up your point unit. We we here at the outlaw your we don't. It's not about the politics rest. Men like you said this is an interesting it's very interesting from a political perspective, but we don't care about that now care about the politics on the I'm not on either side and for the people that the people Jesus into the show like that's that's our side were super neutral. You and I can when I can go either way. So like human Alec. I ignore in my personal life just sit to be a better a better embodiment of the ideals of the show.

I ignore all things political. Josh sows ignore the story but like you said we love our interesting phrases and words and terms and, yes, like you, the special master it caught my eye and very very intrigued. I'm very excited. I know you've done extensive research on what a special master actually is, and I greatly look forward to this deep dive on the terminology was to be his short sweet Joseph I: shallow dog dive into a shallow pool it's exposure.

The kids pull dive your like to collect old history books. I like old legal books broilers probably a lot of attorneys a lot of lawyers other do the same thing but I like old books, I have up a Black's legal dictionary that your lawyer, one of the first books you get all scores are your your Black's legal dictionary says different terms defined, the starting point. You know if year term that you're not super familiar with and I went to have a 1951 copy of that dictionary. That's what I like you. It's good dictionaries, but some of its definition, it does it in one sentence is a special master is appointed by a court to carry out some sort of action on its behalf right so that's that's the definition it goes into more detail, but I master a special master's function is essentially investigative compiling evidence or documents to inform some future action by the court, but basically the court can appoint sometimes is called sometimes it will calm an arbitrator special master, but it's it's someone the court is appointing to do something that's not can it be done in an open court right surfer here Trump former prison.

Trump wants a special master appointed to go through all the documents that the feds FDIC's to see which ones are privileged which ones they don't have a right to to review and so forth and course. On the other side that the feds are the epigastric concern because there some national secrets of varying degrees alleged to be in this material and the special master is going to Peru's Aldi's and and so course you got you got things on both sides here that are important, but it as of today, having last thing I saw was at the judge had agreed to appoint a special master to do this to make sure former preserved president Trump's rights are not trampled on her or what have you but the judge that made the decision is one but trouble pointed) and it's all kinds of like conflict on on a grand scale here is that if anything in this order gets appealed goes to a court resting Trump might have. These numbers are all but trouble .6 of 11 judges you know that that would normally maybe be given this case, if it were appealed so just tons a conflict tons of first right is the first time. This is, happened in anyway a special master is just basically some of the court appoints to investigate something review something you know, for the court and report back to the court is obviously none of this can happen in like an open court dress to be some secret to you has be taken very seriously and very secretively but that is what I a special master is man I was riveting how you doing family and that Alan I want to come back in. I want to come back and hit you with some follow-up for some elaboration, but man I thought you covered cover that topic so well what you know I started looking at this I think it was good to be that simple. I just was not familiar with that that term is not something I run into a lot of my day-to-day practice and you know I thought special master. Can you think of a more lasting think of another title in the legal system axis G.I. Joe Geyer unison special military type does. It may sound a lot like a term that that's that's out-of-favor and that I would think like with today society like working to deemphasize to use that term just because of the potential connotation. You know, when you replace it with what what you play something of the magnitude special master man invade an inspector the word got out the word. I'm not the word police man, I can't do that.

That's leave that for the specialists to the special appoint a special master to yeah yeah going to do a special master to figure out what working to call the special master support for Morgan night night.

Now everyone knows what a special master is that I think we've right done our service for that for today.

The question, what is a special master now you know the outlaw alive is Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer, your host of the program is the managing partners and Whitaker and Hamer law firm office is conveniently located in Raleigh, Garner Clayton, Goldsboro, Fuquay Marina and Gastonia and now Morehead city and a reminder both Josh and Joe pricing attorneys here in North Carolina I Morgan Patrick consumer advocate each and every week we get into the legalese.

The topics you have questions.

Maybe you're facing a legal situation of your own and you need some answers. I have a phone number for you to get in touch with Whitaker and Hamer. It's 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186 leave your contact information briefly what your call is about, and a attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch with you can also email your question to the program questions@theallyor.com that's questions asked the lawyer.com will answer those questions on a future program we got more in store for you on the outlier. We have a listener question.

When we come up on the other side.

This is the outlaw Myers Clayton, Goldsboro, Fuquay Marina, Gastonia, and now Ian Morehead city. I Morgan Patrick consumer advocate we get in the legalese each and every week if you got a situation you're facing. You need some help. You got have some questions answered. I got a phone number for you to get in touch with Whitaker and Hamer. It's 800-659-1186.

That's 800-659-1186 leave your contact info. Briefly what that calls about an attorney with Whitaker Hamer will be in touch. You can always email your questions to the program questions@theoutlawalongyour.com that's exactly what we have in front of us now, Josh.

We have a listener question. We do Morgan this is this is my favorite part of the show and we will be take listener questions and we talk about on the show and for folk; or for folks to email us if you come to us with a with a legal issue will certainly do everything we can to help you educate to get you going in the right direction, but sometimes I keep seeing the same thing, so I assume a lot of people have that question. And when that happens I like to take.

I like to take situation the legal situation all create what kind of like a hypothetical. So whenever using buddies names. We never use anything that would identify a person and fry today's question. I've seen this in 10 to 15 times in the past couple years and so this is this hypothetical is kind of just the merger of the same situation coming up over and over again, but this week's listener question is basically my attorney-in-fact or agent is not acting in my best interest.

What should I do I access, general question, and we talked about this a few weeks ago we talked about the legal document. A power of attorney rights in a legal document you can appoint someone to be your back in the day we call it attorney-in-fact under the new statute called an agent you'll hear those terms interchangeably. I like to say attorney-in-fact older and I liked old terms better, but so in our situation or fact pattern we have someone who is at a power of attorney drafted, signed and notarized and witnessed and in all and what have you given somebody up the power think someone there attorney-in-fact to handle their business affairs for the right and so in the situation that we see come up. The attorney-in-fact is not doing that when we talked about how that creates a fiduciary duty which is a special relationship where you owe the attorney-in-fact owes the principal the person who gave the power a special duty to act in their best interest, and so here we have made we have a attorney-in-fact that's paying their personal bills using the account of the principal or selling property to benefit themselves, but we we see this happen you know you you hope we names to my attorney-in-fact it someone you trust in someone that will act in your best interest, but there does happen for that person can get there in a very powerful position and they have access to their assets and so they can take advantage of you if they if they so choose Joe I don't know if you see that is as much as we do down here in the Garner Raleigh offices but that's a thing that happens yeah you you do see it may now I go I want to go back.

You did a great job set that up and bring us in man, but she said this is your favorite favorite part of the show and it really meant more than talk about a special master like that's you, you can if you can give this the Crownover over that rethink discussion man I do I do Joseph. I feel like I think that you know if you have to rate our segments for excitement level. I think special master. I thought we got that we we would have a higher level of excitement, but we really defined special master that was it. Yes, given it was tough man who was tough working to bring it back right here were get in touch with the people had.

But I agree with you may generally speaking, the listener question, getting in tune and in answering questions for our listeners is a is my favorite part as well as the number one thing we do, and it's the thing I enjoy the most. So yes, I can say we deal with a lot of POA's here.

We do a lot of attorney-in-fact situations and unfortunately it is the case now.

I want to say it's the case more often than not, I think it's a fairly rare occurrence but but it is the case where there can be be situations where that attorney-in-fact is kind of abusing the privilege and the responsibility that's given to them and and they can they can overstep their bounds and think what it really comes comes down to what we really need to encourage everybody. Anyone who is considering having a POA or anyone who's Artie appointed their own attorney-in-fact to act on their behalf. It's very important to carefully consider one who you're going to give that authority to, and the person that you're going to appoint because you know this is date did you given them a lot of power in your given them potentially a lot of a lot of ability to do things on your behalf to act on your behalf so carefully consider the individual and then and then to I think it comes down to making sure that you're very careful in how you draft this power of attorney and and make sure that your consulting professional that's fully explaining to you the ramifications of giving this power because there is there certain things that you may want to retain the ability to do at but let's be clear. You give that attorney-in-fact the power to do something there very to be able to do it and third parties that the real the real effect of that is third parties are to be able to rely on that document so you may be able to to sue in and seek some kind of a seek some kind of retribution for these actions being taken.

But third parties are to be relied on the document and that's where you you're gonna get to a situation where it may be difficult to undo something that's been done so it's it's very tough to go back after the fact in and correct something like that.

So again carefully drafted. Make sure you understand the power you're given away and make sure it's somebody that you're comfortable given the power to yeah definitely 1/3 party relies on your power of attorney that you're not really have any liability for a good faith third party who is relying on your power of attorney in dealing with your agent. Your attorney-in-fact so that the liability doesn't really live there.

The liability is is one of the times and every respect, situations, different rights of the week I have to look backs, but usually what you see is your first step of this is happening. Your first step is to revoke your power of attorney right to stop the damage whatever whatever. Sorry, second place, you can meet with an attorney and try to figure out how to how to maybe reverse that or recoup sumps of loss with the first the ideas she got revoke your power of attorney. You do that attorney would draft a revocation for you and not the document you notarizing its equipment much like the process you went through to get the power of attorney drafted and you had to give yet to give notice to anyone that you know of that might have your power of attorney right.

Set your bank. A lot of times we talked people will will record the power of attorney done at the register of deeds office so if that's happened you want to record your revocation so if anyone finds your power of attorney. There also find a revocation if your bank has a copy. You want to deliver a copy to your banker, your investment advisor your CPA or anyone who you know may have a copy of that power of attorney and then you have your your your attorney-in-fact or agent has acted against your best interest is breached their fiduciary duty.

Of course they have some civil liability. You know if if it came to that if you needed to sue them to recover based on things they did against your best interest. That's that's again a conversation you have to have an attorney is very fact-based and in fact specific with what step one. Joe is is revoking the power of attorney. Step one revoke the POA and and you know doing it did not revocation taking care off like if you think start to go south with your power of attorney you feel that you know you say you have some kind of huge falling out your relationship, like you said. Step one revoke it. Get it get it revoked and again that's a tricky, that can be a potentially tricky concept because were talking about third parties who are relying on that document and if someone's got a valid POA and they go out in the doing all these things on your behalf. It's it's it's tough to know who all Dave.

They communicated with.

So it's kind of a tricky situation, but at the same time.

The sooner that you can get that revocation you can show that you gave noticed everyone that that you thought you had notice the better your situations going to be if you have to to go through some kind of litigation on the backend but I think I think the main the main point here is you don't want to be in that position. You really gotta think about you know, making sure you have a lot of trust in adult you don't appoint.

Maybe if your elderly don't appoint just the person is open take care of you the most, or you think. Think about it you know. And if you have enough assets that there's enough there to really be worried about it made you a professional may be a CPA maybe attorney may be your investment advisor. Maybe there someone professional who should be doing this for you get assuming what your asset level you know. But something something to be wary of something that definitely happens. Hopefully doesn't happen to anybody was listening today but Morgan we see that a lot, so hopefully helpful to some of our list again folks. It's all about the legalese just got asked the question, and you can get answers, there's going to be an opportunity again for you to get answers to your questions, you can always call Whitaker and Hamer where you can find our managing partners in host of this program, Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer and their staff of attorneys which include Cassandra Nicholas and also Taylor Scruggs Smith and Ashley Penn are all part of the team at Whitaker and Hamer you can always call this number 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186 leave your contact information briefly what that call is about an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch. And as Josh and Joe have already said today.

You can always email your questions to the program and they will be answered on air will leave names and now you know the certain situations out, but we'll talk about that that issue for your questions at the ally are dot-coms we can send those questions as questions asked, the outline.com are back for a short wrapup segment come up next on the outlaw lawyers welcome back into the outlaw lawyers hosted by Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer. They are the managing partners at Whitaker and Hamer law firm offices conveniently located in Raleigh, Garner, Clayton Goldsborough Fuquay Green to Gastonia and now in Morehead city they are practicing attorneys here in North Carolina and each and every week we get in the legalese topics you may have your own set of questions with the issue that you are facing, you can always call the firm 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186 leave your contact information briefly what that calls about an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch. You can always email your questions to the show questions asked, the outlaw lawn your.com I Morgan Patrick consumer advocate and we are here to wrap up the program for this weekend we are going. How we going back to the movies as I will be doing what you know Joe has been at the Red Hat theater and related yes it was better yet – yes, I challenge I live I live 10 minutes away from the Red Hat amphitheater and had never been there before like two weekends ago it was to show their nice place to watch a show. Yes, it is man in the heat. Josh live I will die will chime in and I think when you drive by your like me and it's not that big you get in there is a nice size facility. They put on a great show yeah and it's got think you need a gigantic venue to enjoy the show and it's a good set up man.

It's not too big it's convenient. I am also a fan of the amphitheater so I can agree with you on that Josh. But it's here the thing that struck me as it's it's which is great right is right in the heart of downtown Raleigh is very accessible parking, you get what you get with parking right downtown, but it's it's a good many but what surprised me was like you really could be anywhere within like a couple blocks of soy the whole show without fighting to get right. Most of the amphitheaters got out of the way right you know if you're there, you're in the parking lot you can hear what's going on but I feel like I could just like set in a chair like a block away and probably really enjoy this proposal to the bootleg concerts at the Red Hat if you just pull up in a chair and just pose the question reef going into the parking and one of the DACs that if you get high enough for me and I think you can see right in to Red Hat and you can certainly mean I don't think the acoustics would be great. But yeah, I mean you could you could probably enjoy it if you just took a cooler and tailgated in the parking deck, but the yeah I think they do a fantastic job there. The thing that always kinda shocks me when I go to concerts, not just Red Hat just anywhere. It's just the cost of the beer on the beer guy let's get you that there's had a great game or a hard Morgan Hartson. You only need your need to maintain wireless spoken like a true pro this Was talking about the know I enjoy it. I can't. I can't believe it's taken me this long to get there's no other shows that a been there, but we've either been in a football game right kids at something so I there's been like 10 to 15 things that we would've gone to and we could and Mike said finally got theirs. I was was pretty impressed by that is nothing.

There's nothing illegal about that whatsoever. As just just an observation one share with Joseph and you Morgan soon so no movies, so were just talking Red Hat just is not Josh is in a movie guy and doesn't see them very often. But when we were free gaming. We were talking about scary movies. I thought well and there may be one maybe we'll get to watch some this week and he can come back to you in a spooky movie watch watch hits watch it. See how you doing read so I read the book. What I've read it. Scott if I watch a movie. It wants in the TV series. Anderson is one of life's if I'm in a watch anything. All right Raleigh will are original member we are wrapping up the program again. If you are facing a legal situation and you need some answers.

I got a phone number 4800 659-1186 at a get you in touch with Whitaker and Hamer again. That's 800-659-1186 leave your contact information and briefly what the calls about an attorney with Whitaker Hamer will be in touch and you can always email your questions to the program questions@theoutlawyour.com will answer them on future shows another outlaw lawyer in the books Josh and Joe have a great week will talk to you next week right here on the radio attorney licensed to practice law in North Carolina because appearing on the show maybe licensed North Carolina attorneys discussion of the chosen to be general in nature and in no way should the discussion be interpreted as legal advice, legal advice can be rendered.

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