Dodd Case Fallout, Conceal Carry, and Listener Questions

This week on the wire Josh in studio Joe working remotely therein to discuss the law and how it affects everything around us and is always joshing to tackle burning legal question such as what is textualism's abortion is illegal to the founding fathers wants you to carry a concealed weapon and what is quitclaim deed. That's all coming up on this week's edition of the outlier welcome into the outlaw lawyers Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer Whitaker him a law firm to the managing partners there practicing attorneys in North Carolina office is conveniently located in Raleigh, Garner, Clayton Goldsborough, Fuquay Marina and Gastonia Morgan Patrick consumer advocate. We talk legalese each and every week and you have questions, possibly about your situation really give you an opportunity to get in touch with Whitaker and Hamer.

You can call 800-659-1186.

That's 800-659-1186 and leave your contact information briefly what your question is about an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch and you can always email your questions to questions@theoutlawlawyer.com and questions@theoutlawlawyer.com will use him on a future edition of the program, gentlemen. We got a lot to talk about today.

Good to see Josh in studio and apparently Joe on assignment, working remotely, but he is on the show today guys are doing Morgan Morgan were doing good it's it's nice to sit now in the Afghan fidelity in a week or two grew a full beard man, the side I don't like to save have got to go T. I keep the goat.

See my kids have ever seen you at a galaxy I will save every week or two but the beard, especially over the holiday weekend and really really comes out fast on so Joseph, how was your holiday weekend. Hey Josh, it was pretty good. Sorry I can't be with you guys.

Right now I am in my office alone it's it's very cold in here and dark and lonely, but I also have a large beard today. It's good it's it's a beauty, weakness, first week of July is typically yet a lot of people who are on vacation this week, as everything slows down nothing just a little bit and across the board and in my life. You know that working at home Wednesday Forester. I did fireworks next door at my sister's house they bought an obnoxious amount of fireworks and they delayed. They drove down to South of the border for that purchase and picked up some some of the good ones man and enjoy way way define good ones is that that's like quarter stick of dynamite because you have to go out of the state to get those yeah just the good ones man the good one is not crappy with the good, decent, honest, and we were up in New York week or two ago, back to Pennsylvania so we balsam in Pennsylvania, but why dive now. I've never resources have never known the answer.

What is and is collectible. We were time is one time when things are illegal, we have to ask questions.

Why is this a legal why is there a statute against is why are we penalizing people for this.

Why can't we have good fireworks, North Carolina, where I went to the history behind. I like every other state has good fireworks that we got the date the other shower of sparks type fireworks and saying they don't delete on the shower of sparks there some good ones. We had a shower of sparks type artwork we we bought our little pack we set those off the kids. The kids will enjoy those but nothing like the real fireworks.

It's like it's like everybody else has top shelf and we have well drinks you like for like and biases like the real deal fireworks me out like snakes and illiterate snakes are pretty sweet. Snakes are a wonder of chemistry and I think you shouldn't hate on snakes in the sparklers and some of those spray spray sparks fireworks. Some of them are really pretty pretty decent man, especially if you get like like 13 inches away from him. It's just like you. What I do some research on the research these things early on, we start some sort of grassroots non-political campaign to get theirs legalized in North Carolina that the type of thing that I can get behind. We all just accepted that we have to go out of state to get them and everybody who can just does it and and thereby surrender that is just part of life now, but maybe we should ask those questions.

Oh speaking of explosions or implosion's you guys been following the latest on the ACC and in everything around the ACC. This is one of those things that I can't stop following. There's no real news, but any kind of social media's role back to just algorithms. I picked up that I'm interested in conference realignment and so keeps float me all the stories about how meeting in six states and now I'm worried about where NC state unit will end up and I don't know Genevieve and follow any of that little bit you know a little bit, not time. This is a this is kind of a did. In sports for me personally, this could a lot a lot of the sports that I follow are not active right now so I cannot this is why kind of a ship down the sports part of my life and build up that hunger for when it comes back. So I haven't I haven't been keeping close track of it, but I but I did see some you know I have seen a lot of speculation as far as that ACC implosion goes in some speculation about what's can happen and I think they'll be fine and I thinks they'll stay to land on their feet.

They got the football thing going foreman for whatever reason that football that football revenue seems to be king and really the driving force behind a lot of collegiate athletics because it's it's big money. We all these conferences are based on contracts right it's all they are. You have a tee time at the ACC grant of rights and I've never read that I want to get my hands on it and and read these grant of rights. These TV right contracts that supposedly the only thing propping the ACC together and and read them to keep reading these different articles where older sister is 50 million buyout know you don't get your TV right still 2036 but I like to actually read this thing in and see what the penalty for for breaches. I assume I find out for too long, is if you believe all the stories any day now will be no ACC that's that's that that's the way all the rumors are flowing but will I guess we'll see that the ACC basketball tournaments been dead for a long time so I don't have all the feelings I used to have but it's obese. I explained that you've explained your apathy for the ACC basketball turned to but I'm gonna make a bold prediction. I must say that if estate starts when an like say 70% to 80% of their games. I think you're going to have a renewed interest in that ACC basketball term maybe set our minds. You really are my joy. Two or three years ago a way of rate, still doing ACC football and so I was excited football season starting in the first ACC game of the week on TV for the season came on as I'm in a watch.

I don't care who it is. I'm just ready to see some ACC football you know. At the very beginning season hi anyway, the ACC game of the week was hit versus Utah because it was like an away game for. I guess that was all he had the rights to elect and ACC pit versus Utah.

I blew my mind tells a powerhouse program I may be better to do I don't I don't know but I was very disappointed. I did not watch the game, but it disgusted me and it's made a mental note that but what illegal stuff to talk about Joseph today Serena about a couple times we haven't talked about a couple weeks.

The Dodd case, ruling that came down on on abortion from the Supreme Court's been talked about a lot I want to actually look at the opinion little bit, look down the road which I've seen some news outlets do. I would just talk about what happened sometimes in these things get reporting on. Always do the job. Sometimes I do but outlets always do a good job reporting what actually is any opinion and what the court was was trying to do is look at what what happened right in what happened is that is a big deal. Very newsworthy, but sometimes we sometimes the actual ruling gets lost order talk a little bit about the Dodd case case that we spent some time on the New York State rifle and pistol Association versus Braun decision that was the concealed carry case at New York and that decision came down. I want to follow up nights only. We talked about that since oral arguments will talk about that a little in the Second Amendment. I got a couple listener questions so we'll talk about some real-life situations that we we get at the law firm in income to give you little bit information on on those give you some knowledge that hopefully will be beneficial to you, but that's what I got lined up for us today Morgan all right. The outliers Josh Whitaker and Joel Hamer. You can find them at Whitaker and Hamer law firm in the managing partners there and practicing attorneys here in the state of North Carolina. Again, Whitaker and Hamer in Raleigh Garner Clayton Goldsboro Fuquay Marina and Gastonia so conveniently located offices. If you have a legal situation that you are facing and you just have questions about a phone number for you 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186 leave your contact information briefly what your call is about an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be on the phone with you shortly and you can always email your questions to the program questions@theoutlawlawyer.com and please go check out the website, the outlaw lawyer.com a lot on the program today. Coming up next.abortion law fallout talk about that next on the and Gastonia invokes a Morgan Patrick consumer advocate we get in the legalese each and every weekend we have a little fun along the way wood is very serious discussion in this next one, guys.

It's all over the news. Yet Morgan is the Dodd case and this is one we we spent the whole show talking about the opinion when it leaked and what it and what it would mean an obsolete final opinion came out it was it was very similar to the delete opinion they added concurring opinion from Justice Thomas and and there were the dissenting opinion was think I think Breyer wrote that that opinion. So we got full opinion with a chance to read it. It's been course widely reported on it so it's a big case is the case, will be talking about for years and years and years and the fallout from it is is is not over. Jay might remember facts on the Dodd case. This is one where we had abortion clinic suing the state wasn't mimicking her feelings Mississippi. I don't have the facts in front of me, but they had a law they passed a state law saying they couldn't get it abortion after 15 weeks, that is, in violation of Roe V Wade in direct violation and so this case went to the Supreme Court. And so that's what was presumed by the Supreme Court in the Supreme Court. I don't know that we we would've predicted this when I thought that the court was going to limit abortion, but here 54 decision they they were first Roe V Wade and Joe. We talked about how how the Roe V Wade in an and the cases after use.

This substantive due process, and in the Constitution and kinda created this right or read into the Constitution. This right of privacy in this logic has been used in a lot of cases Roe V Wade, until recently was the biggest example, but it just got me thinking. I read I read some opinion pieces in different newspapers we start talking about textualism text text set for me. Textualism so readings substantive reading the Constitution verbatim right just looking at the words of not reading anything into it.

Just looking at the Constitution and taking it at at at face level would not you, not try to read anything else into it, but yes right to privacy that that God created and was using in Roe V Wade, the court doesn't like it right that it's it's not a good way.

The court has shown that it's not going to use that same rationale lease this court that that's right, Josh, and you know you go back and you you reference the fact that we we talked about this. I think we talked about this a few times before, before the actual decision came down, we talked about a pre-leak. We talked about a post leak and you referenced the fact that you don't think we really predicted it would go this way, just conveniently ignore that if it never happened right. I can't recall our exact prediction, but I don't think we hit it on the nose if if anything, to be very vague and say we got close so we got close to me. I don't remain official prediction. That's right, you are not right yet. We generally will avoid the official prediction. When we when when we just don't know and I don't think we knew here. I think we knew something was going to occur, but I think it's safe to say we we probably didn't anticipate it, it rising to the level that it that it rose to an and such a drastic change in an and harsh critique and and just complete slapping town of that Roe V Wade ruling in your you mentioned the substantive due process and and how that's been used in in several cases, you know it's been it's been a principal that's been applied numerous times and and and the court here is is almost forcing you to to to look back at every case that's that's use that the way that they're analyzing that concept yeah yeah you know I again we don't we we go out of our way to be nonpolitical. Let's not. That's not the point of of our time here, but I do feel like at times I have to just be be honest and so I'm not I'm not here to say abortions are right or wrong is not up for me to decide what I do agree a lot with the court. You know on the Constitution is the Constitution it's not a very long document. You know it's not, certainly are some things that are up for debate. In it, how to interpret certain clauses in it where certain, comes in and what that means.

So you can do that, stuff all day, but in the end were left with the writing and I've always been one were you something says what it says and and we can interpret it a little, but I'm not. I've never been a big fan of reading rights you know into the Constitution are saying what the founders would've done this or I think we can take this clause and and and it it it means this and so what I think what court did here. The way I read the opinion is, the court said this reasoning is is flawed.

You know when you read the Constitution. There's no constitutional enumerated constitutional right to abortion, and I think with the court did here that reasoning is is not good were not were not going to continue with it. We think it was erroneous at the time within it still erroneous still longer than a corrected now bettered better late than never. And so that's a react to the conversation about stare decisis and pressed the tent and what is that due to the court when they ignore settled Lawton and and here they didn't care like here they are like what we don't like it. We never liked it and and here is what this is important and as I've seen this reported like abortions, not a legal on a federal level is not with the supreme court did they said. Again, there's no constitutional right to abortion were not legislators your duly elected legislators they need. They're the ones who need to take this up and and decide in the course they have it right yet is been no there's been no action legislatively to ease the Congress could easily just say abortions legal is the statute does matter what the states do, but that hasn't happens in our left it out, every states left up to itself and you see now that goes in a got states all across the board yeah and you know you you mentioned that Josh, the fact that this is no it's not an outright prohibition of abortion. I think I think again you get into the the kind of echo chamber of social media and you get into a lot of a lot of the.

The real partisan way that news is presented below in the bet that there's a lot of folks really fired up that that just aren't adequately informed about the issue and probably do assume that you know this ruling out laws abortion completely. I would not be surprised if there's a decent chunk of the population that thinks that when again that's not the case. Like you said it's not not federally illegal and it and it could easily be legislated and and and there could be a law that's passed that says you know this is something that can be done across the board and and that's not something that's being prevented in any manner, but that's not the that's, I haven't seen any any real movement on that front us as far as on a federal level, but like you said you we've seen widely varying approaches to this state-by-state which is to be understood because no states different state. States have different demographics in different ideals and different ideologies and so you're in a C account of a widely varying approach to this SEC in some states, New York is as undertaking amending the Constitution out of the process and I haven't read the story but there was like maybe they got the votes necessary to amend the Constitution of the their state to include abortion as a constitutional right you seen states like Texas and some other southern states, Artie have laws on the books right now for the weight is ever overturned you abortion is is illegal using some states years back story about a girl in Ohio who sounds like maybe a admin rate very young girl trying to get an abortion missed a six week deadline I guess is on the books.

I think it was Ohio. I didn't read all edit and read a lot of it but had to get a different state and you see a lot of states are trying find ways to penalize people who go out of state to to get abortion so it's just it's like the wild West and in abortion law. Right now there's no there's not anything close to uniformity and that you honestly from attorney perspective that's that's the biggest problem is you know how how is it going to be treated in different states and and it really is is just going to be wide-open, you know, until some stone federal level thing is what everybody and everybody is is you know either super happy with the Supreme Court decision on a really angry about it. There's a lot of people who are middle-of-the-road on this issue, but those you know your elected representatives can make you know what side you fall in the can make this right.

Are you know it.

I just don't see where we I don't see where we it's not a very smooth path forward I think is the best way to say right now. It's a very rocky path for Josh I think is this is the best way to describe it in a very very interesting this the way that this set this critique of that substantive due process, you could you could really read that into some other precedents like you like you. You mentioned in your notes here and the fact that you that was basically called demonstrably erroneous and that there is a duty to correct the error, establishing this precedents that's that's that strong wording being used there.

That was from the Thomas dissents and Justice Alito wrote the main opinion and is the one you know you might remember when thrall the history of how abortion is been treated in the United States and and and will and went on to say that unit is. This doesn't necessarily affect other rights that we've read in his you can use same-sex marriage and other reproductive rights that have use the same logic to to say we have a constitutional right that this is protected. Yeah, Alito says the courts not coming after these other things. But this is before them, and they want to correct it. But in Thomas's dissent.

He specifically says that we should look at all this other stuff now and then uses our bizarre chance to fix all the stuff based on flawed constitutional logic. But I don't know Joe, don't you know people in retirement is for a long time and worry were years and years and years were in the sea. The way this decision affects everything around us. That's right. And and it'll be interesting to see how it develops. I have, I'm a go ahead and refrain from making any further bold predictions and but it will be very, very interesting to see how this progresses how this plays out.

And what kind of the ripple effects of it are there you have it folks the outlaw lawyer again a very delicate subject to talk about it is top of the headlines in the news again. The Dodd abortion law fallout. It will be back on the show from time to time and know as it continues to be a hot button issue you are listening to the outlaw lawyers Josh Whitaker and Joe Harry confinement Whitaker and Hamer law firm so we want to thank you for listening.

I tell you, we kinda got our niche on the weekends and talking about the legalese and if you've got a situation that you are facing and you just have questions that you need answers to jot this number down and call it 800-659-1186 at 800-659-1186 just leave your contact information briefly with calls about an attorney will return that call shortly and also you can always email your questions to the program questions@theoutlawlawyer.com will use those questions on a future show will change the names around. But you know what, you'll get an answer to your question that way as well and check out the website and the outlaw lawyer.com. We got more coming up on the program today. Next up New York State rifle and pistol Association versus the written decision is coming up next on the outlaw lawyer arena and Gastonia and we understand. Look, there are legal situations, you may be facing.

You may have questions.

Great resource for you.

Call the firm 800-659-1186.

That's 800-659-1186 leave your contact information briefly what their call is about an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch with you and you can always email your questions to the program questions@theoutlawlawyer.com. We are to get into our next portion of the program gentlemen New York State rifle and pistol Association versus the Bruin decision yet or have offered people pronounced this to a suffered Bruin and Braun so I don't know which way is correct.

That was our one for North Carolina I look at B are you EN and I say Bruin Bay could be brought. I always tell people there's any way I could mispronounce the name I am to do it. I'm the worst person at pronouncing dude, I'm Ron Burgundy put in front of me and I say the Bruin Bruin this or my I don't know why this reminds me of this. This reminds me of the year to the Mandela affect Joshua yeah the Bernstein and Bernstein bears on the why. This triggers that in me, tomato, tomato. Yes, the so so over the past week or two that spring corpsmen drop in just bomb after bomb on every body is releasing all these opinions at the end of their session and so of course the Dodd case that we talked about last segment that's that's been the one garnered the most attention because it was the Supreme Court taking away a previously a constitutional right that they had had originally rating the constitutions are taken that away course, it's always good to be big news. No matter what the subject matter of course, abortion makes that being the subject matter makes it even more controversial but but even of even kind of a bigger decision kind other side of the coin, you know the constitutional right to abortion as a as it existed was kind of written into the Constitution was, not enumerated as we would say this is the other side of the coin. I this is the second amendment. Your right to bear arms which is you know you can argue about exactly what it means, but it's clearly a right that is let you host the Bill of Rights it's it's something that the founding fathers thought was extremely important, so much so that it was in the second right listed there in the Bill of Rights so I saw a lot of people trying to draw. Yes, a lot of people on all social media in the regular media just saying that you know. Okay, we don't have the right to abortion. We have the right to carry concealed weapon. You know and then and just kind of comparing those two things, but these are two different things. From a legal perspective, it's a it's a right that was, read into the Constitution.

And then there's a right it's clearly laid out in the Constitution, and so in this case you may remember, New York has a very strict concealed carry your New York, Chicago, California. They have very strict state gun laws right so you have your federal gun laws within states can obviously be stricter in the ends of the states that are the kind of the strictest gun laws in the in the country. New York concealed carry.

Had to show you had like an exceptional need an exceptional cause to when you applied for your permanent yet it references in an argument here, in this case was that a lot of those applications just get denied and there's no grievance process is no appeals process. The state just says no you didn't demonstrate it is need this factor that we need from you.

I this factors not really defined anywhere in the statute what it is again. If this if this new government official says you can't have one you can have a concealed carry permit and you just don't get it. That was it.

And so that's what this lawsuit came from.

They had all kinds of problems with the statute and Joe and I forgot to if you get to read this opinion, but it was it was cut short as four Supreme Court opinions go, but Clarence Thomas wrote this opinion by Justice Thomas, and he he can. After all, the old Second Amendment case law out the books again. He is, it's not really getting rid of precedent necessarily, but he's a really examine these laws in a new way, and his exact language on this antiphon in my notes the constitutional right to bear arms in public for self-defense is not a second-class right subject to an entirely different body of rules than the other Bill of Rights guarantees and so sorry about freedom of religion, freedom of speech that the right to bear arms has is a common treated differently in case law. Up to this point and and they're saying no. They're saying this is an express right and you know if you can on your states. Obviously there's there's limits that they can put on this right just like any other right, but it needs to be done in a certain way and and so that was kind of a different line of thinking for the right to bear arms, especially in states that really try to restrict that yeah Josh, you know, we had were looking at a 63 decision here and where you have the majority ruling that that New York laws unconstitutional and effectively what the ruling was was that the you know that possession of pistols in public is is a guaranteed constitutional right under the Second Amendment and no state licensing on firearms is not necessarily an infringement on that right as long as is the state stay within the that what we call shall issue systems which which can only condition licenses upon satisfying objective criteria as opposed to the May issue systems which which seem to contain more arbitrary evaluations as opposed to to more objectively verifiable criteria so you know and an example of of objective criteria would be like, you know, a standardized background check, as opposed to some of the more arbitrary evaluations that have been proposed that that are now being being deemed unconstitutional such as Leica you know that I think social media evaluations were were referenced in that but but it's basically just in an attempt to note keep arbitrary infringements of this right from from being made into law. So this when this decision came down. I was actually in New York.

As I was watching the local news.

I was in upstate New York. I was in New York City whereas watching the local news up there in the governor and everybody else in the government just this decision very angry and very defiance. You know, we talked a little bit ago about what happens when stasis don't listen to the federal government yet. We talked about that on the show at a know it was Kelly's disagreement and partisan politics and at what point he states that Wilson of the federal government and the yeah innuendo but but neither here nor there. Yet New York there governor and she was up there and she was not happy with this and then said that she's working with their Atty. Gen. Mary had a new law and had a social media component. You know that your that you're going to be evaluated and include a grievance process.

Savior denied and go to appeals.

They're trying to cater to some of the things the Supreme Court said, but you know I was good here. You know there was a there's a quote here from the decision, it is undisputed that the petitioner so that the two folks who got denied there concealed carry permit and and filed this action is undisputed that the petitioners to ordinary law-abiding adult citizens are part of the people whom the Second Amendment protects adding it's a good thing it's a good way to think about this year the governor of New York when she was talking, she mentioned the buffalo shooting was like six weeks goes.

That was a grocery store shooting was horrible and yet the school shooting and then an instance and we we had 4 July shooting up there and in Chicago area so I definitely troublesome that at the least.

What I always always worry.

You know something like this happens, it's terrible. We want to stop it.

We don't want this to happen for the first thing everybody does is like restrict would allow a law-abiding citizen can can get a firearm in an and that's a slippery slope and in especially nowadays you know people have to cool off right people can just stick to social media immediately with their whatever they have on the top of their hedging about. We had to take negotiations all suggesting that Joseph negotiations I didn't have to take it.

I could've taken I chose not to see how it will take negotiations and and one of the things that I picked up in class, especially you know that you can text and you can email you know a good part negotiation as is letting things sit and write when you get an offer right message try to settle personal injury cases in a car accident going back and forth to the insurance company and users offers made back-and-forth you are sitting on it, you know.let in some sling some time pass and I think our professor at the time back in the days said you maybe just write a letter right maybe don't even email a rightmost email maybe just write a letter and you let that letter get delivered in the mail and you let them sit on the letter written and you slow down negotiations to think about it and your knee-jerk reaction is and always the best idea having that's adding a split here unison like this happens everybody's real quick to know we need age limits. We need to get whatever we need, or will my concealed carry so hard to get. No one can get them. I had another that's the answer, that helps anything limiting the rights of law-abiding citizens no matter what the topic is. It is never the answer in and select like we said earlier, this was in an this is an enumerated right. This is another. This is another quote here that I thought was important is nothing in the Second Amendment's text draws a home public distinction with respect to the right to keep and bear arms in the definition of bearer naturally encompasses public carry a moreover the Second Amendment guarantees an individual right to possess and carry weapons in case of confrontations are here there defending the law. The law-abiding citizen who has the right to defend themselves in their home. There also singing in public and that's kind of a new thought process will be interesting to see how the states you most states have a concealed carry process and and most of you here in North Carolina it's it's deftly not difficult. There's a background check gets a class and I've done all that, you know, I've got I've got the concealed carry. You have your DJ note, no I don't.

I just try to be. I try to be around you as you say here is Alvarez right so you're right to be attacked at any given moment. Yet yeah and you know you mentioned you know, knee-jerk reactions and you know you just just blanket restrictions are on the play but but I think it's also important to know you know this ruling doesn't state that that state licensing of firearms and restrictions are on their face unpermitted.

You know that that it's it's actually the opposite of that ages have to be have to be reasonably can't be arbitrary and not think it's important that we clarify Yossi. I think something we end and and most reasonable folks agree on is is the fact that the there there definitely a place for restrictions and and I don't think that we would advocate for there to be just it just be the wild West. The measure, no restrictions in place, but but it's very important to to be intelligent about how we go about that and you don't want to restrict the ability of you know good decent law-abiding citizens to to protect themselves, and because that's specifically what you know that that provision of the Constitution is designed to guarantee an and I think it comes back to previous discussions we've had a mean clearly clearly, if you look at, you know, our country and you look at that the things that have occurred recently and just the sheer volume of mass shootings and things of that nature. I think it's you would be hard-pressed to argue that there is not an issue with with gun violence and and with with issues in note events of that nature occurring, but I think again we come back to the fact that that that it has to be a multifaceted multi-angle approach to solving that problem. It can't strictly be organized is through these blanket restrictions on gun owners and were going to do all these different things to prevent ownership that could be a piece but it just has to be intelligent but there's also some other elements that need to be looked in and it ended and again. It's just that it's good it's the issue that needs to be solved but has to become that you know you got a come at it from various angles and I do not have the answer to what those angles are want to make that clear. But I just think you can't be shortsighted and how you approach you know solving that issue.

I know are coming up against a break, but I have a lot of I have a lot of family law enforcement least, always tell me the bad guys don't care what the laws are not as I would.

I would say hey the bad guys don't care what laws New York makes enough, the bad guy wants to get a gun about guys going to get a gun and then and make it harder for the regular God suit to protect themselves.

Is is is a difficult one to swallow sometimes but was more talk about. Talk about guns for eight minutes and some else. All right there you go folks outlaw lawyer. We will roll on Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer managing partners at Whitaker and him a law firm and proxy attorneys here in North Carolina today. A touchy subject. A lot of people in on this.

If you have a question about something that you're going through.

From a legal standpoint, here's a phone number 4800 659-1186. That's 800-659-1186 and just leave your contact information briefly what the call is about an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch.

You can always email your questions to the program, questioned@theoutlawlawyer.com and speaking of questions we got listener questions coming up on the other side you're listening to now while life arena and Gastonia.

They are pricing attorneys here in the great state of North Carolina. I Morty Patrick consumer advocate and I can steer the ship a little bit if you got a legal situation you're facing.

You've got questions, you can always call the calls about an attorney will be in touch with you from Whitaker and Hamer and you can always email your questions to the show questions@theoutlawlawyer.com and speaking of that.

Now we get into some listener questions. Always a very popular segment will more than one the reasons we do the show want to get things I like about the show is that we do have folks call in and we usually which I thought everybody calls and would always get back everybody right away, but we have gotten back to everybody who emails us or text us or our calls since I talked to five or six listeners last week just about things they had going on some, the firm could help with us on the just I need some general general direction, but it's always fun to talk to folks and and so this is a this came from a a it wasn't really that the question they were asking me but this is something that we talked about one of our listeners and so I kinda rephrase the question to get it into a format that we can talk about here in the show. Basically, I had a special warranty deed at closing right so this this person is fictional person that we made up they when they bought a house for almost a builder that have to be a builder both make it a builder for our scenario and they they went to closing and they got there deed recorded and then when they got the deed. The deed was called special warranty deed and then it's not something they had maybe talked about a lot before closing so they they were kind of surprised here in our scenario as I thought this was a good idea to talk about your deed deed to your home or your investment property or your your beach condo or whatever may be North Carolina's there's there's three types of of deed and so the question came to be.

What's the difference between a special warranty deed general warranty deed and a quit claim deed and there's other types you know you'll see a trustee's deed or is there types of these.

We can talk about. These are the three you see the most. Joe what's a special warranty deed may not tell you what.

This is the type of conversation that really gets my my blood boiling in and I get very passionate about my deed so I had to get up and turn the fan on Kazaa's get hot thinking about this. This riveting deed discussion but yet you set that up beautifully.

Josh causes a lot of confusion with folks like you said 33. Generally three types of deeds and and we start off with the most I'd say the most common that we see from day to day which is that the general warranty deed and so basically what a general warranty deed is is is you know your seller or you if you are conveying this property to someone your stating that you are you're gonna warrant it just generally against any kind of title issue that there may be out there you're defending the title that you're conveying and you're representing that title is good against all comers, whether it be people from before you in the chain of title. Obviously nothing after the fact that you convey the property out, but you're just basically saying that not only are you gonna warn against you know the time that you had the property, but you're gonna say you know anything prior to this, I'm willing to to warrant an and basically guarantee that there are no kind of outstanding issues and that I'm conveying good title to yes or someone comest comes to me or Josie know guys I got this piece of real property under contract. I had a close in 30 days I needed any title search so we get busy North Carolina statute in play but basically most searches are you're going to go 30 years or more to establish ownership to establish what we call marketable title. Once organa really go back to that that first deed 30 years or so back, and then an income Ford and so your seller enough.

Everything looks good. Your seller give you general wants deed and you're close.

It's a sure house are all done, but what say you come to find out like 180 years ago some guy granted a utility easement that's never been used but now I say the gas company wants to use it so they send you a letter saying they would get an easement closing attorney might not have seen it because it was 180 years ago were hundred 15 or 80.

You know whatever whatever the time period is your general warranty deed you go back against her seller on that something you can save even after closing certain things you can still sue a seller force a general warranty deed. Seller would be liable in that situation because they gave you a warranty that a good as it gets such a general warranty deed and that's what you get most close and most standard closings are you're buying a house. Are you good your warranty deed but have as many instances where usually like a corporate seller may be someone who flips properties and doesn't really hold onto them very long.

There's a lot of folks will say hail say it is property but only give you special warranty deed and so what is that Joseph special warranty deed. So like you said we see this a lot with unit some some of these larger national builders.

Some corporate sellers but but basically the special warranty deed you're still going to be getting a warranty your seller is still warranting something to you but it's gonna be restricted and limited from what you will get from a general warranty deed. So basically what the seller is in a warrant to you is if they're knocking to say any not speaking as to prior to their ownership of the property there saying from the time that they acquired this property they themselves have done nothing to impair the title they have, you know, they've got no liens or judgments or other kind of issues that would affect title to the property and and there an award against anything from the date they they acquired forward but anything prior to that, anything that predated their ownership. You know that's that's something that they're knocking to defend against so that the practical effect of that is if the if you are conveyed by special warranty deed of property and you discover a title defect that you go to sell that property and there's a title defect that that pops up from prior to that, that seller's ownership there have no liability to you for any of those issues as far as the warranty that's provided by that the and and and and with that, I would also say that you're still even if you agree that not something you contract for right at something that when you say I'll pay 250 for this property in all agree that I'll take a special warranty deeds that something you negotiate. And so you you've agreed to take a special warranty per student take that to a closing attorney for Whitaker name or how incidental closing attorney a closing attorney slid into the same search the same title search. They would for any other closing system have an attorney here in North Carolina.

It's an attorney examine title but a special warranty deed is is different it's it's it's less of a little bit less of a commitment from your seller and then if we keep going down the wind. You know we got we got a quit claim deed next and and so I think some people get special warranties and quitclaims confused. Jill was a quit claim. I tell you what people get confused as they get confused over the fact that it's actually called a quit as in QUIT claim deed as opposed to a quick QUICK claim deed. That's one of the from the big issues we see brother that's a pet peeve of mine. I know I thought I saw an attorney at a state attorney drafted and North Carolina deed. I don't think I maybe their license in North Carolina so different discussion, but it came through as a quick with the CKD.

Not that bothered me to assert a week. We can't speak to what the quit claim deed does but the quit claim deed. Basically what you have when you have a quit claim deed. It's you know we talked about the general warranty which is extremely broad defense against all comers. The special warranty which is more limited and just defends against that the time that that that seller owned the property, then you got the quit claim deed which is basically I'm giving you what I got. I don't know what it is I'm making no warranty as to my title in this property may not even have title in this property.

I could have no interest in it whatsoever. I'm giving you what I have, whether that be a fractional interest whether it be encumbered by 16,000 liens. There is there's no representation being made and I'm not warranty against literally anything I am just giving you what I've got. So that could be good. It could be perfectly fine. There could be no issue or it could be horrible when you are taking on a terrible terrible problem but the quit claim deed is just you're getting what I've got deal with it yet.

So quit claim deed. You see that pop up a lot between spouses here maybe getting divorced or separated, so you'll see one spouse quit claim their interest. You know to do to the other spouse or you'll see that if you like a people inherit a piece of property semi out you know there's a start you know if someone is agreeing to buy by mouth ulcer quit claiming their interest to, but that's where usually see is you using Susan like what I would call normal closing. Are you going are you gonna contract about some ability or bureaucracy, a quit claim is that will really winter use. That's kind of the stepladder your general warranty deed underneath that special warranty deed in any way way way down low is the quit claim deed that is a quick I say quick I thought it was a click.

That's a quick primer on the different deeds in North Carolina and an answer to our first listener question today. We have a second one coming up next quit claim that a quit claim. Don't upset Josh Whitaker the lawyers Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer, Whitaker and Hamer law firm where you can find the managing partners there and again pricing attorneys here in North Carolina. If you got your own legal question. You can always contact the firm by calling 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186 leave your contact information briefly what that call is about an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be calling you back, you can always email your questions to the program that's questions@theoutlawlawyer.com another listener question coming up on the other side again. You're listening to the outlaw life Ali Garner, Clayton agreement and Gastonia and a reminder managing partners and pricing attorneys here in North Carolina.

We've got a short segment, but we have a another listener question. So this is come up a timer to a lot of people, you know, when I grew up my family. We did need a lawyer very often something my whole you know childhood to early adulthood you my family prior to closing or two to get her to get some wills, you know, just come in normal lawyer needs and so I think growing up I didn't really understand this and solves a lawyer, but I wanted to wear listener questions is basically how does a lawyer get paid no way I phrased it was. I went to see a lawyer and had to pay consultation fee to meet with that lawyer. I thought the lawyer would only get paid if they recovered money for me and so the question basically is how do lawyers get paid. An answer is it's different right is different depending on the circumstances. So you see, I think most people just in their daily routine. You know you will you if you watch TV you see that the personal injury attorneys run ads in and and Joe McCarthy would attorney charge usually for personal injury so what a shame that that that lawyers are getting paid for the work that they're doing just that.

Just a tragedy man.

You know there's there's there's different types of fees. And then there's really two primary ways that fees are assessed in and one of those methods is the contingent fee and like you said Josh you're gonna see those contingent fees primarily with personal injury cases and and what you see there is a situation where the attorneys not going to be getting paid and less there is a recovery for the client and then that the attorneys generally gonna be getting a percentage of that recovery as their feet that that does happen and and again like we said that is the that's the standard for personal injury cases as opposed to the. The other method of billing which is the hourly rate and again that can be a flat fee but will just call it our hourly because it's it's the opposite of contingent where recovery is is of no consequence. You know there's not always going to be your case may not always be the type where there is get a beer recovery that that's going to be generated from from your representation or a monetary recovery. And there still to be a substantial amount of time, energy, efforts were expended by your attorney in that process. So some things are going to be billed in the contingent manner. Again that's going to generally be that the PI that we see the personal injury and then say the majority of things are actually to be the more traditional hourly or flat fee billing where your attorneys are to be collecting either a fee upfront with her to be billing you hourly based on the amount of time they put in your case because one thing one thing about litigation. And one thing about litigating is it's you know you can have an informed idea of what that's gonna cost the time it's going to gonna take and what can go into it, but but it's unpredictable and it can, it can widely vary so a lot of times the only way to to accurately unit as an attorney account for the amount of work. This can go in the Thompson to go in is is to handle it on the hourly basis where you can know you just can have to collect as you go because you never know what it's gonna be required to just use example just just when I was growing up right so if we needed if my family needed, you know, a ticket attorney to handle a speeding ticket or are or something like that at usually a flat fee so they turns the what are you get a speeding ticket going 20 over in whatever county I charge going to do that if you pay me blank. I will do that. That's kind of a flat fee situation was in a car accident right where there were the other driver had insurance that turned into a personal injury matters. What we say personal injury were time a car accident slip and falls you and things like that someone was negligent and you were hurt as a result and then they like said July times attorneys avoid arguments meaning out-of-pocket working to recover. I think your case is worth. This, and I'll take 1/3 of it when it settles or whatever that attorney takes for contingency and I really feel at times comes up in a kind of business law world you know if you're suing someone for breach of contract or were trying to work out easement issue with your with your neighbor almost attorneys, so might mysteries will do a flat fee will do a contingency fee that would make sense. There will do an hourly essay, I charge blank in our eye thing is think about five hours. This one I think it will cost you and Mrs. this is our fee agreement. You know so really just depending on what you need from the attorney and get every attorneys little bit different yet is that none of this is set in stone. So depending on the attorney are talking to you in the matter.

In the time and their experience. All these things, going to fees and an outer charge, but that anybody talk to should be upfront with you about what they know what the attorney expects you to pay in and why and and and things like that but always a lot of questions about fees and so I thought I would be a good question to get answered today the lawyers Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer another one in the box. You can find Josh and Joe and Whitaker and him her law firm of the managing partners there and are practicing attorneys here in North Carolina officers communally located Raleigh Garner Clayton Goldsboro Fuquay Marina and Gastonia.

If you're facing a legal situation. You got a question here's a number 4800 659-1186 is 800-659-1186 and leave your contact information busy with that calls about an attorney with Whitaker and Hamer will be in touch and you can always email your questions to the program.

The lawyer questions@theoutlawlawyer.com and please check out that website is a good one.

The outlaw lawyer.com. Another great show in the books. You next week right here on the vine attorney licensed to practice law in North Carolina just appearing on the show. Maybe license North Carolina attorneys discussion of the show was meant to be general in nature and in no way should the discussion be interpreted as legal advice. We would like to be rendered. Once an attorney licensed in the state in which you live at the opportunity to discuss the backs of your case with you. The attorneys appearing on the show are speaking in generalities about the law, North Carolina, and how these laws affect aboriginal Carolinian. If you have any questions about the content of the show, contact us directly