Rittenhouse Trial discussion, Aaron Rodgers Covid issues & the WWE Steroid Scandal back for discussion

On this week's out wall wall you talk the Kyle Rittenhouse trial on all mod Barbary talk about Aaron Rodgers in his recent covert issues in the morning to discuss the WWE sterile extent of this had a special come out coming up next now welcome into the outlaw lawyers your house or Josh Whitaker and Joe Haber managing partners at Whitaker and Hamer law firm combined years experience between these two and they have offices. Well, almost everywhere, Raleigh Garner, Clayton Goldsborough, Fuquay Marina and Gastonia begin practicing attorneys right here in the great state of North Carolina. We talk legal topics each and every week and fell as welcome in the know we got a busy show, but I hope you had a great week. What's first Morgan glad to be here with you. We have had a good week so far. I know college basketball season just started, so I will sleep because I went I went to the state game it it took off until eight separates me get home at like 1030 Which Is Way past my bed sounding like an old man sounding like an old man.

I didn't even as I went to bed right when I got home state. They did well wait to see how long we lost many baits for but state looked all right, but I came home and went straight to bed and came straight to work this morning so I don't know how Caroline and winner winner. Duke looked very good against Kentucky. It's early. They're very young. Same thing for North Carolina. Lotta transfers. The opponent was probably not at the level of the Kentucky but both UNC and Duke with midweek wins, which are your your resident good family look pretty good yet. Josh, you know you're you're complaining about 1030 bedtime that do game and start to very close to 10 and as the resident Duke fan. I did stay up for that game is very pleasing very very pleasing game and I can confirm Duke does a lot of optimism for this year. Lotta young guys but young guys that don't seem very young unit 18-year-old kids that look like very grown healthy men and they played very mature and I was actually impressed with Kentucky as well. You know, Kentucky and Duke both had very very down years by their standards. Last year, but I think both teams much improved this year and I don't think Duke handily beating Kentucky in the way they did is necessarily an indictment of the Kentucky team so much as it is a reason for a lot of optimism for Duke fans. They were made tired of real quick Joe's like everything the last time she says he can do some this was his last season opener and I'm entirely storage will be the rocking chair tour. You know they're all going given gifts. I think we likely lied to, you know, I don't think he's necessary lucky.

It had a segment last night and you and you can kinda tell I don't think he's all about that, you know, I don't think you necessarily wants there to be something like that with her. If that's how it's going to be every event it's going to be nonstop and and you guys are out to watch every single do game so I get a lot more tired of it that you guys will have as big of a Duke fan as there is so you can be you can be the correspondent the Duke correspondent for the outlaw wires every time they play will get an update. I was born for this, and I will absolutely I will absolutely do that and I'll do it. Had it should be a good year to do it because yes is very very good team. Palo Bank Bancaire a very good player but then Trevor keels for Duke. Another freshman I don't think his expectation level was quite as high but absolutely phenomenal Joe I was kidding I was kidding about breaking it down. But nice job assignment on the game court and will do banquet, though I would think is way back when I was a kid, I remember when Kareem retired and he did this every day, every time he played was last time he be in like Phoenix of the last time. I like all these other sieges given gifts yet like 29 Harley-Davidson CLA would just give them something before the game is lassies and that's what this reminds you know that you've made it in your profession or your sport when you you retire and the people you're literally competing against give you things like that you should not to not to get away from Duke and I'm so sorry Monday, but I was going say this week and I did the most country thing that I've ever done in my life I flew I flew to Atlanta to see George Strait concert which in and of itself is is a pretty I think country thing today but we got down there on Friday. We had entered time for the Braves World Series parade and at that that city is very excited about the Braves that's RSO. I'm a report that back to you guys here only outlaw water that Atlanta is very happy about the Braves world championship.

Well, for the record for the record, if that's the most country thing you've ever done that. The fact that you flew to Atlanta.

Now if you if you got into like a king cab 4 x 4 four wheelers, you know, it is taken to Atlanta do a road trip with the family, then maybe you fit into that category of flying and maybe if we were somehow able to jet ski down there that would probably be more. I think walking barefoot through the woods with the tail back and that would be country would've been would've been the approach, then there's nothing wrong there is no there's nothing there's nothing wrong about it all. I was I was down there but never been in the Mercedes-Benz on what they call it were the Falcons, point out places gigantic. Yeah, places, it's nice. All right, it's a converted lid opens on his yet awesome place to go see a game or anything really fantastic place to go.

The well Joe, we always talk about sports.

It seems that's what we were not talking what the law we we watch a little bit of sports and so we always catch up but we do have a lot of legal things to talk about today. We have several several legal things.

That is the purpose of the show Josh to thank you for that. Thank you for that redirection. I'm happy to make this just to sports radio show. Maybe we look into that in the future, but yet Josh, a lot of things to cover were to go back to working to discuss that the Rittenhouse trial.

We started talking about that a little bit in our last episode organa follow-up.

It's something we said that we would follow will probably follow it through to its conclusion and talk about it you know until it's done. But I we are going to discuss some updates and some things that have been going on with that case and after that, you know, we it's been fun to follow.

You know, again we we talk about this week we don't mean to be callous because people have died in these cases, you know their victims. There's there's things that have happened in people's lives are forever changed what we as attorneys we we like you know Monday Monday morning quarterback these things like see what the defense is doing right see with prosecution is doing right see what comes in the play evidentiary matters. These are all fascinating to us because this is what we live and breathe every day and so when we just a reminder we talk about these things we we don't mean to be callous or you know, we know that there are real world effects of these things, but in this show we we like to look at the law behind stuff and so Rittenhouse has been, is been covered very well.

I think I was reading a lot of coverage but that's that's that's an interesting one for attorneys were also to look at the Barbary murder case out of Brunswick Georgia so that's kinda in my mind have to look at that is kind of the opposite fact pattern of Rittenhouse.

It's not perfect but it's it's there's a lot going on about when to Joe yet is that there's a whole lot going on and there's a real contrast between the two.

This year there some similarities and then there's some stark contrast in indifferences and I think there's kind of an interesting dichotomy. If you look at the two of those cases because you got. You basically have that you are two sets of of individuals in these the separate instances both using your self-defense to an extent as their defense to committing murder. But very, very similarities, but also some differences and like you said it's it's got to be interesting to look at the two of those and see how those cases develop and kinda compare the way the developed one another as they as they play out. So we will start getting it out and start digging in to the facts of that case note it's it's interesting that these two account playing out of the St. Thomas well then will jump over to, what's going on what Aaron Rogers with his coded being immunized not being immunized in Canada, the world is telling the world freak out over it got covered more than the other two things that we were even talking about but there's some legal implications their souls, and sometimes I can look at that yeah I think it's accurate to say that I was a huge, huge story that that is really captivated, especially folks that have any interest in sports and it's kinda permeated outside of that arena as well because as we all know anytime you get into this this cobra discussion, especially when you're talking about vaccines or any kind of vaccine hesitancy and you involve a public figure you know you're gonna get a ton of discussion in a ton of really both sides of the aisles having such widely differing opinions on it so we we will get into that as well and we also want to touch on like mean Joe both watched series dark side of the ring which is you know, kind of interesting stories from professional wrestling world, and in some more interesting than others but they just did a special couple weeks back on the WB steroid scandal and from I guess I would've been the late 80s early 90s maybe like 89 through 92, but I was a young man then I know what was going on with the legal status dolphins. I cannot open my eyes and it's new to me, even though it happened many many many many years ago but I thought I'd be fun for us to talk about all that. Yeah, and it's relevant because like you said that you know that there's been a recent documentary episode of the dark side of the ring series that's come out and Brought that back and ended in the public attention and so I think that's it. It's topical think it's something that's that's topical to discuss today and we always have our our big stack of listener questions. So if we have time left over will will attack one of those listener questions and whenever a listers will have an answer to a question that has been burning in their mind. Watch the show is absolutely packed.

So let's get to it.

The outlaw lawyers Josh Whitaker and Joe Haber Whitaker neighbor law firm to the managing partners there 46 combined years experience again offices in Raleigh, Garner, Clayton Goldsborough, Fuquay Marina and Gastonia and they are practicing attorneys here in the great state of North Carolina. I Morgan Patrick consumer advocate big voice and also referee between these two and again we talk about legal topics.

Each and every week if you got questions pertaining to maybe a legal situation that you're involved in, or you just got questions, here's the number 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186 or you can email questions to the show questions@theoutlawlawyer.com and these questions can be used on an upcoming episode again, go to the website de à la lawyer.com and all of the shows are available in podcast form will be back right after this next à la lawyer Joe and I talk about Rittenhouse prosecutions rested and Gastonia and they are practicing attorneys here in the great state of North Carolina. I Morgan Patrick your consumer advocate and again we have a lot of fun talking about legal situations that are out there and there are so many stories that hit the headlines in your were talking about appear on the outlaw lawyers. The guys I know Rittenhouse is to be front and center. This portion of the program. We spent a lot of time last week talking about Rittenhouse Kyle Rittenhouse's case and had that jumped off last week and got started in the prosecution just rested so were in the studio on Wednesday morning but to the prosecution just rested yesterday. Yeah, you know, and we did talk about it. A good bit last week Josh will you know just to give a rehash to anybody who missed that her somehow isn't following this case, which again it's very difficult to to not see these things with with the way that with our 24 hour news cycle, but essentially Kyle Rittenhouse.

He he comes from out of town attends a protest BLM protest is armed with a weapon, and at some point in the night.

Tensions arise, he ends up shooting multiple individuals killing a few of them and again is charged and like you said Dave that the prosecution just rested their case yesterday and a lot of very interesting things. In my opinion, as far as as how the prosecution's case played out, and how some of the witnesses that they called actually and in my opinion could really be seen as damaging the prosecution's case yet you it's interesting that you, Joe. I'm up my undergrad degree is basically a journalism major was I went into state journalism school that is basically the equivalent of a journalism degree as always like to follow how different media outlets, TV, print conservative, more liberal like I like to see how they present the news is very interesting to me is when things we do on the show business, look at that and going into the Rittenhouse trial was very fair coverage. Either way, rattling everything was planned one where the other.

This obviously is coming out of the situation was very political very very socially charged and come into the trial coverages was pretty unfair slanted one way or the other but since it started, and people are actually looking at what the prosecution's putting out there for like the coverages really come in an incredibly focused on legally what's happening and I mentioned that because that doesn't seemed always be the case. I thought I was really interesting and it made because the prosecution honestly and I think we predicted it was going to be a struggle.

I'm I think both of us said II can imagine, it was almost as almost when you break it down factually and look at the murder charges and you look at the application of self-defense is justification and you got these three different scenarios and you gotta figure out who was the aggressor in each one of the scenarios and you know keeps resetting and is just a lot to look at factually and and you could see the prosecution really struggle with this. You said it in and just touching on what you said. I completely agree as far as and it's not just this case, it's a big problem we have with just the news in general. And then, with the proliferation of social media you get into this kind of this tribalism and you get whichever side of the political how you fall on things just get so slanted and and I think like you said a lot of times there's not really fair coverage. Either way, so we can't you can't really pinpoint either side and say you know this the sides part presenting some kind of a fair and balanced and really accurate accounting because you get so many people just trying to to to play to their market and and to appeal to their demographic as opposed to just strictly looking like like we try to do here at the factual basis without any kind of slant without any kind of leaning in and it's kinda disappointing, but like you said, I guess, somewhat refreshing where we've seen as like you said the case is played out in and we seen this case presented. It does seem like there's almost been more of a truly neutral approach to to presenting this because again were just when you're presenting on a trial you're kind of all you can do is really state what's taking place. State the facts as their taking place and report what's going down there so I don't that has something to do with it but it has it has been a little bit refreshing to see that yet you know that I think most of the experts going in this trial. Basically you gotta figure out who the aggressor is you who who was in the wrong any kind have to figure it out. Several different times because we have several different incidents and so I think in the opening arguments, the prosecution having one of things I had to do was say Mr. Rittenhouse.

It shouldn't of been here shipment open carrying you know when a yard was threatening and he was he was the aggressor.

I think the defense was able to to argue haters he was doing nothing illegal and you know he was there. Maybe, maybe, is not the smartest decision for an 18-year-old to be open carrying you know a semi automatic rifle in a situation like that, but what was it a legal uniting sky with the defense focused on and then they thickened and broken each these encounters three encounters to resulted in in the death of of of someone's letters to her charges and the last one. The last encounter. The last guy was shot survived and so he was one of the what you would think would be the star witness and I'm going to skip ahead a little bit, but just distal.

Just a very confusing factual family prosecution to the good job like separating these out like I would've hoped they would've done anything in and not to rag on him too much because it's difficult like you said it's it's a it's convoluted, it's complex because you have several individual incidents, but at the same time you have to look at all those incidents in concert, and, look at the date they build on each other and that first incident sets the tone and speaks to it really speaks to Rittenhouse's perception of everything that follows.

So you do have to look at them individually but then there's also relevance to the way that it builds in the way that it progresses so it's not the easiest thing to do and you know I can't.

But I agree with you you you would've liked to have seen it as the prosecution looking at a strategically you think they could've potentially done a better job there and like we said earlier, I think a lot of the things that they laid out really kind of backfired on him in a lot of ways and at some of the things that they were trying to do some of the witnesses that that they called actually ended up destroying their case in a lot of ways especially like you said with a with with gross crowds I believe are pronouncing is his name correctly. He's he's the one that survived and honestly man you look at his testimony and that's almost like a slamdunk.

In Rittenhouse's favor.

If you review what what he said and in the way that he presented what happened, which is his first-hand account of the situation. I don't see how the prosecutions can overcome that. Yet even forget there's the first encounter was with the engine was lasting was Rosenbaum and he's he's deceased. But I think the cross and inmate it I definitely left with the impression that Rosenbaum was was the aggressor in the in the first yeah you you don't have, you know, the thing about the Rosenbaum encounter doesn't seem like there's a lot of video evidence. You know, we crazily enough, there's a good bit of video evidence of a lot of what took place on this night, but that's one thing that there's not a ton of really clear evidence of so he actually had a video producer that was there on site who was one of the main people that testified about this incident with the Rosenbaum and he basically stated that you know he heard Rosenbaum essentially say that he call Rittenhouse alone.

He was going to kill him said that he saw and reaching for the gone. I think there was some some court testimony that his hands were actually on the gun when it was shot so there's there's a lot of things that came out they are asked to that initial incident that that really seemed to work in Rittenhouse's favor and the second, I believe the second encounter was with with Huber and he was the one I had to skateboard and and it was coming in, after the first incident and so that that leaving it's more complicated but it seems pretty clear from the evidence that you were for better or worse depending on how you view the situation was attempting to get the firearm was that he was attacking you know are attacking the plane of the defendant here sets another cannot situation and again it gets it gets a complicated man because you look at it and you look at you look at Huber as being that the second piece of this puzzle and he seen Rittenhouse fire his weapon and at that point, you know, he gets very difficult to gets very convoluted and you start getting into some tricky situations. But again, were you having to look at Rittenhouse's perception and it's just it's a difficult one. All around, especially you know asked to Huber but then again, clearly you got you got substantial evidence that he swung an attack Rittenhouse will with the skateboard and you know that's that's that's something that's problematic for the prosecution overcome incident existed. Last semester he was a what how do we pronounce that last guy's name when they were going through gross gross crowds rights gross crowds is still with us. He still alive. He's got injuries that will be with him for the rest of his life, but you sent me the red I think you sent me the link Joe but just watching attorneys respond to his his testimony. It was like the prosecution and never talk to to talk to him.

I can imagine they were going. You know he basically came out and said that you know he and a problem admitting it seemed that he he aim he had. He had a weapon and he aimed his weapon at Rittenhouse before Rittenhouse fired yeah and it was amazing man. I sent you that link it was. This is what I guess nerdy lawyers do. But it was basically a live stream of some some attorney reactions that were watching the case and you would. It was like going back to our sports discussion to use an analogy, it was like watching you know a basketball financing and someone get dumped on the way that that the attorneys discount a pop for it and you couldn't believe it innocence to relax it you not that that alone the fact that he is readily admitting that he he pointed his his weapon at Rittenhouse. I mean that I don't see how you can get more clear evidence at least in that incident of it being self-defense.

You know that that's just a huge thing that's gonna work in Rittenhouse's favor and the fact that came out during that the prosecution's case. Like you said it it it cannot did they even talk to him like it's a kind of boggles your mind yeah I did so the big question now is what will the defense stated that there was, there is at least a a rumbling you know enough in a federal criminal case like this were a long time in jails up as high-stakes you most of the time the defendants are Mr. Rittenhouse Whitten's attorneys will put them on the stand and I want to open them up across if they feel good about where they stand there. They don't want to jeopardize her case so I'm really interested to see what defense dusters. I think the defense much like organ talk about in the in the W WEEI steroid but I don't.

I don't know the defense has to do anything.

I don't think the prosecution came close to proving their case.

Again, no matter what you think happened or how you interpret the facts and the way they been reported. If you just look at what the prosecution presented to this jury. I don't think there's enough there for anything I me I think I think the defense could rest in Rittenhouse would be would be a free man just based on that, based on the evidence yeah it'll be interesting to see how I don't know if they did defense anticipated that the prosecutions case would play out that way but it will be interesting to see if they if they cannot pivot if they handle that the presentation of their defense any differently in light of what's been presented thus far and you know the prosecution's argument. It's essentially that is the fact that despite there was a tense environment and a lot of widespread aggression there on that night house was was the only person who responded to that aggression with any kind of lethal force, but the way that it was presented and some of the things that came out I think is really an approved damaging that case and I I have to agree with you Josh, it's I don't know how much the defense even has to do with this point to to to to kind of get Rittenhouse out of this, the outlaw lawyers Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer handling the Rittenhouse discussion. Again, it will be ongoing though we follow-up down the road here on the program. We got a lot to get to today. Again, you can find Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer, and Whitaker and Hamer law firm to the managing partners 46 combined years experience in offices in Raleigh, Garner Clayton, Goldsboro and Fuquay Arena as well as Gastonia and they are practicing attorneys here in North Carolina and we get into legalese each and every week I Morgan Patrick again consumer advocate and referee between these two. If you got a legal question that you want to get an answer to. Here's the number to call 800-659-1186 at 800-659-1186. You can also email your questions to the program questions@theoutlawlawyer.com and will try and use those try to get to them in an upcoming episode. You can also go to the website de outlaw lawyer.com you can find past podcasts there. Click on the subject matter and listen to your heart's content. Got a lot coming up on the program if you're NFL fan you want to stay tuned were back right after this coming up next on the outlaw lawyer. We talk Aaron Rogers recent issues with COBIT 19 and violation of the NFL. The protocol and Hamer law firm and they have offices in Raleigh, Garner, Clayton Goldsboro, Fuquay Marina and Gastonia. They are practicing attorneys here in North Carolina.

If you got a legal question of your own. We have a lot of different topics that you may have something going on in your world. You need some answers call the firm 800-659-1186 and attorney will be back in touch with you. Leave your name number will brief information and you will get a phone call 800-659-1186 or you can email questions to the program will try and use those in a future episode. questions@theoutlawlawyer.com well NFL fans listen up Aaron Rogers in the news guys a lot of fantasy football team owners are concerned, and certainly if your Green Bay Packers fan. Holy cow, what, what's the difference in having ace. I guess a frontline and top 10 quarterback and then not having him.

Guess we at we can see that what Morgan I then I fell on that kind of like a tunnel vision as I pay attention to the Panthers sure because my will I Weiss from Buffalo. Pay attention to the bills and neither one of them really come into contact with Green Bay time and so I Pretty much ignored Green Bay for a long time and I didn't know much about Aaron Rogers and really follow them. And of course he's been a star for a long time until he was on Jeopardy and in my family became big fans of Aaron Rogers because he did a really good job posting and and you know you say top 10 quarterback. I think maybe closer to top five is private and probably that's probably more accurate.

I mean he is he is legit at one of the best to do it and has been for a long time hole a really long time so you know recently there's been all of this.

This COBIT 19 talk circulating around Rogers and around the Packers and so basically just it to catch everybody up to speed. Basically Rogers tested positive for COBIT. 19.

It was placed on the league's reserve, which is the Cova 19 list.

They have Wednesday of last week.

At the time of this recording so there was some video around Halloween, Aaron Rogers, you know, he grew his hair out and and Donna grew up beard and people didn't really know why it turns out it was for Halloween costume he he. When is John Wick is actually really solid Halloween costume, but it was some video of him at a party unmasked in a kind of dancing having a good time limit is life man have an having a blast hand. Then of course comes out. He tests positive for coded and the league announced after that that it was going to investigate how the Packers had handled their Cova 19 protocol so another another big piece of this is the fact that back in August there was a lot. You know those a whole lot of discussion leading up to the season about the vaccine and vaccine mandates and players being required to be vaccinated, and so there was a lot of discussion, a lot of players were asked their opinion on that Rogers basically came out in August. When asked about his vaccine status and said that he had been immunized for Cova 19 which led a lot of people to believe that meant he was vaccinated, but turns out he's actually he's allergic. According to Rogers, he's allergic to the ingredients that are in the mRNA vaccines and he didn't feel comfortable taking the Johnson & Johnson. He doesn't have the same athletic body type that you have Josh Brenner you for taking that and you are perfectly fine, but turns out that despite claiming he was immunized, Rogers actually was never vaccinated so this is been a big issue for people who feel he kind of misled the public stating that he had been vaccinated at will when in fact that that he was not this a different thing about this. I tried to ignore this story is much as I possibly can laugh. Click past it and it is beat me up over the past week or two so I finally started paying attention, but when you're an athlete you this your your body is your is your paycheck and I'm an old broken down man inside ever really thought through. As I go cow get his vaccine and never thought too much about it but yet your professional athlete and Aaron Rogers been doing for a long time so he's probably I would, I would argue maybe doesn't have a whole lot you got more years behind him that ahead of them and so I kind of ended up filling form like you know he disses his body.

This is his livelihood.

He should have. We should all have freedom to make these kind decisions are not a big antibiotics are not a big everybody should be back so I can be safe God.

But it's been interesting to hear those two camps interpret the story and the and the way I saw it was professional athlete very very much concerned what goes in their body, how they train what they take supplements medicine all made perfect sense to me but made a lot of people angry yet made a lot of people angry. I think I think part of what really sparked anger is the fact that he he's on record stating he had been immunized and so it actually turns out that prior to the season, Rogers actually petitioned the NFL stated that he had done alternate treatments prior to the start of training camp and and I don't have.

I don't know exactly what there's alternate treatments were my understanding from and this is a super uninformed opinion, but I know I heard he was taken Zeke.

He was taken supplements.

He was taken things and he was basically trended to ask the NFL that in light of these alternate treatments that he had done. Could he be considered the same as someone who was was vaccinated with an approved vaccine and so there was a long back and forth.

The players union an infectious disease consultant all kind of heard this and heard this case for him basically arguing for that exemption and then ruled that he wasn't to get that same that same consideration he would ultimately be considered on vaccinated. So what that means.

With all of the NFL's coded protocols.

If you're unvaccinated your you're treated a lot differently and there's a lot of things that you gotta do differently than players that that are vaccinated so turns out, it sounds like Rogers really followed those masking protocols while he was interacting with players and coaches in the teens headquarters, but he didn't wear a mask when he was in the media auditorium during his weekly news conferences, which again makes it makes a lot of sense because you're talking one of the biggest stars in football.

Much less by far the biggest star for the Packers.

You know they're not there and wanted to be there for his meaty obligations and and him being unmasked for that from a media perspective makes a lot of sense but it looks like other players who were not vaccinated actually ended up they were handling their media obligations to resume rather than than being in person so that was kind of a difference therebetween. How that was handled and then again we talked about the video of Rogers at the team sanction Halloween party which was actually a team sanctioned event and so apparently the fact that he's unvaccinated. He is prohibited from attending any kind of team gatherings outside of the team facility so that ended up being another violation of the NFL and that the player associations protocol guidelines ended up Packers actually were fined $300,000 as a result of this and and Rogers and another individual associated with the club or find 14,650 apiece which to them again. That's peanut but I think finding you 14 bucks and 14 514 bucks. Man I'm good for right now. Right now, but did any of the deciding that I get I haven't read as much as you have.

Joe says I was trying to avoid coverage.

But did any of his teammates come out was anybody as all other national commentators were teeing off on them because that's what they have to do. They gotta come up with some content but David's teammates actually give any statements speak to this at all that you saw. I don't know that I get. I haven't looked into it more than you because I haven't been trying to deliberately avoided in the not dinar crack research team provides us with the notes for our show. Have we seen haven't seen anybody come I haven't seen any of his teammates come out a negative way. And my guess is you know what were talking about sports and sports psychology in the way that teams work in my guess is that no one on the team is really good to come out make that strong stance misses the quarterback of your team there. The team is doing well everybody you're an athlete you want to win and I would imagine that there is even if there's players that have superstrong political opinions about it. They probably let that take a backseat to the team chemistry. In this case, that would be my assumption yeah and then I just seem like much much to do about nothing, because the funds are meaningless.

The fines are completely meaningless to the people that are playing in the Fosdick care less. And the only people that seem to be really angry about it or are pundits you know people like to get paid to be angry about things. Some I'm guessing the self magazines and the comeback is benign. Play Sunday.

Hopefully I just know I wanted her plan. Maybe the land and everybody else just be quiet is, like I'm her too much about the country early nothing we really talked about Tyree on on our show, but now we can't have thought about Tyree Bertino the Carey situation is is is a similar and and it's kind of crazy man.

You know you talk about these vaccine mandates you talk about the way that different places handle these vaccine mandates and so you got Tyree who hasn't played a single game for the Brooklyn Nets due to the fact that he's unvaccinated. He's very, very outspoken and you know his opposition to to being mandated to get that vaccine hasn't done it so he hasn't played and ate.

He can't play you he could play in road games. He could play at other places that that don't have similar mandates but he can't practice he can't play in the games at at where that the team plays because of the fact that he hasn't complied with that. But then it's interesting because that mandate doesn't apply to the players of other teens. This just for employees that are employed within the city so you you have other players that that come in you every night. They play unvaccinated with no issue whatsoever and it's just such an interesting is such an interesting thing to look at and in the way that these things, play out yet. Tyree don't know they don't know that he will play a second this year because of that. Hopefully this all just fades. I guess what I keep telling myself. Hopefully this all fades away as as is every everybody's going to get covert at some point as caddies just cannot happen whether you are vaccinated or not.

It sounds like his mother's things wrong and have to deal with and hopefully at some point the stuff just becomes a nonstory. I keep waiting. I can't wait for a lawsuit to come out of the car re-situation disease is got a contract that I haven't read the contract, these being totally he can't play even though he's ready and willing to play and I'm assuming I'm assuming Annette's art paying him enemies.

I don't know. I haven't read too much into it. I just keep waiting for that lawsuit to happen and I come to be a flashpoint always kind of restrictions but I guess we'll see yeah and you know that the other thing with the Rogers issue that, has taken over the the new cycle is yet he did some alternative treatments for his coven and you noted same thing happen with you if you keep up with it. You know Joe Rogan was someone who was cannot outspoken against vaccine mandates was unvaccinated. He got coded. He did some alternative treatments as well. In any any time in the news when you've dealt with individuals that have have pursued these alternative treatments, especially anything involving Iver Maxton, you've seen just a ridiculously strong backlash from a lot of the traditional media outlets to declassify that as just such a strongly opposed thing you know there's a lot of talk of course, the warmer there's a lot of lot of things that are thrown out like that suits Rogers actually came out that he consulted with Joe Rogan. He did the same things that he did in and apparently both both men recovered like extremely quickly from that and so but there was a lot of a lot of backlash anytime you we seen discussion of any kind of alternative unproven treatment in the media from any kind of public figure man. The backlash has been just so strong and so extreme and an empty on the one hand you know we we try not take a side so if you look at it from the folks that are really pushing back against this. You these are public figures you don't want to spread any kind of misinformation. You don't want to promote any untreated thing that could be potentially harmful to to anyone but at the same time.

Should you not be we should be pursuing every avenue of defense against this society, crippling pandemic and it's it's kind of tough that people don't want to talk about a lot of things and there's not a lot of exploration of these other of the treatment.

At least there's not discussion of it and answered it gets into a really tricky area that that really pushes a lot about what guys, this is gonna be a topic that's gonna resurface will end up chewing on it in future programs. Look forward to that, the outlaw lawyers Josh Whitaker Joe Hamer managing partners at Whitaker and Amber law firm were here each and every week that 46 combined years experience between the two of them and again offices in Raleigh Garner Clayton Goldsboro Fuquay Green and Gastonia. They are practicing attorneys here in the great state of North Carolina. I Morgan Patrick consumer advocate will be back here in just a little bit. But if you got a legal question of your own and you need some answers. Here's a number to call to get in touch with Whitaker and Hamer Law firm 800-659-1186 leave your name number will contact information as far as what you have a question about an eight and attorney will be in touch with you can also email questions to the program questions@theoutlawlawyer.com will use those and upcoming shows and check out the website de outlaw lawyer.com Outlaw lawyer Joe and I discussed a 30-year-old case that is suddenly interesting. Again, steroids handle Hamer all your host managing partners at Whitaker and Hamer Law firm 46 combined years experience between these two offices in Raleigh Garner Clayton Goldsboro Fuquay Marina and Gastonia practicing attorneys here in North Carolina.

We talk legalese each and every week all the hot topics if you got a question about what's going on in your life illegally as you get in touch with the firm.

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Also, you can do questions at the outlaw, all I are.com and leave a question and will use it on an upcoming show and please check out the website de outlaw allow your.com guys were going next wedding were to go back to the.

The late 80s early 90s and this was back before I was aware of the news had it and watch the news back then, but we've we've been following the dark side of the ring, which is a documentary series on what is called by Steve Asia by staff to its own devices and in like you said, just back to you didn't watch the news, but you know what you did watch you watch professional wrestling.

It's so big in the professional wrestling back to do a lot of stuff that was going on but I never did the business side never knew that the steroid issue that I'll save the W to VFW WF courses the Debbie Debbie.

Now the bagman.

It was the Debbie Debbie asked they were having a big steroid issue and was really we will go into it here is really weird. All this came up back in the day, but the results of it was that the United States charged Vince McMahon to the owner, the promoter of the WWF nicely with the conspiracy, criminal conspiracy to supply illegal steroids to his professional wrestlers to improve their performance to improve their physique, their appearance and that he that basically he was profiting off this scheme, which even when I say it really sounds like the sketchy charge that sound very well thought out charges it sound like I would be kinda hard to prove it.

I guess it it was a man, yet they they charged him with conspiracy they they also charge them with you distributing a lot of charges. I think it was six total originally and three of those were thrown out before the case went to court, but no looking back at you look back professional wrestling at the time you can you can't really go back and watch the early 90s professional wrestling and think none of these people are on steroids menisci think it's patently obvious that virtually every single individual was on steroids because that was a big thing at the time. You know the size of the that wrestlers was kinda paramount and I don't think anybody disputes the fact that McMahon really push that and he was huge on you gotta be big you have to look the part. So this came out and I think it's also important to talk about that. The history of steroids, you know, steroids were necessarily a controlled substance in the sense that they are now prior to the 1990s. So you and in a wrestling obviously predates that. At times it was probably appear to town there where this was something that wasn't necessarily outright illegal ultimately becomes illegal and like you said that there's allegations that that McMahon really promoted this use required this use and distributed the steroids as well and it had a lot of it is very interesting story to never watch the dark side of the ring in my ma wife is not is not a big wrestling fan but she's found these interesting to some of them. Some kids can watch some of them can't but my oldest watched it with us.

Some these guys are still around in a whole Hogan :-) talked about a lot having to testify in this and they were there were other wrestlers in and for the most part again, like we were tired about Rittenhouse that the federal prosecutor here would you charge of the federal crime. That's a big deal. We talked about before the show, you know you usually that's your you're up against a lot of evidence in the federal prosecutors usually don't charge you once they've already got a lot of evidence they need and and so going to trial in a federal cases is scary for the defendant is probably scary for the attorney was really impressed that it right on his name but he attorney that represented McMahon and or the WW Apple must believe that he was a really good attorney Meza parents are entering today from what I understand yet, and he was he was great and all, it all centered around there was a doctor as a hoary and there was that there was a doctor.

He was kinda supplying steroids again was an illegal for a while. Then it became a legal mechanic. I caught up in that there deftly was. I don't think he was him as he was employed by the W to be with his doctor cutting was the focal point for a lot of these wrestlers got there steroids and one of the wrestlers testified that he did get steroids from the doctor because it was cheaper to get him on the on the streets I found other ways to get a steroids but they put all these wrestlers up on the stand and all these wrestlers say hey Vince never told me to take steroids and never got steroids from vents, so I did before I got here as like this federal prosecutor did he quit the team, questioning these guys before he put them on the stand.

It was just amazing to me to get that blindsided by your own witness yeah and and it's funny because if you if you watch the documentary it is actually talk about the fact that once the unity indictment came down McMahon actually does a like a jovial celebratory environment about the charges and they kinda had a like a go get them listless not is down type of type of approach to it which is which is kinda interesting because like he said that's it's you get these federal charges. Usually that's a super serious thing and you're gonna be in a beat. Not very excited about that, but it seems like the polar opposite reaction from the.

The WWF Debbie Debbie Debbie to benefit the time it looked like the prosecutors really only had one witness who was a wrestler that had been fired by the WWF and he that he was on it testify that McMahon told me I need do steroids and this is where I can get steroids and then had a lot of other things going on. He was in a very reliable witness kind of a hostile witness since he had been fired is males Josh is not enough to give him great credibility that showed a picture of him and he wrestlers, I guess he had like an inmate garb and I do not seem to have seen a lot of 80s and 90s wrestling. I could remember that guy was yet a his and he was. That was his gimmick.

He was an inmate and they feuding with the big boss man understand.

I seems like I should remember that I'm disappointed in myself. He was very unmemorable with this trial was very like he said had a very pro wrestling element suet you know with the way that opening statements in the closing statements and some of the tax they took in house. There were some celebrations in the courtroom.

This lends credibility to my theory that everything is really progressed court.

We will discuss that theory on an upcoming essay to dedicate a whole whole thing to tell you guys so many fans of pro wrestling. So this is another part of I guess the story for the outlaw lawyers to continue and we will follow up with the latest from the WW E and I guess that's world. What worldwide entertainment.

Is that what is in world world wrestling entertainment they had. That said, we could do a whole series on them.

They had to change the name as the world wildlife Federation. Okay there you go there you go, the outlaws noise Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer, Whitaker and Hamer law firm that the managing partners there. We have to take a short break were back on the other side will wrap up this edition of the outlaw lawyers coming up next were to wrap up the show will kinda summarize what we discussed thus far, and we will set up our all modern armory discretion for a long lawyers on the air. Josh Whitaker and Joe. The managing partners of Whitaker and Hamer law firm 46 combined years experience and they have offices in Raleigh, Garner, Clayton Goldsborough, Fuquay Bren and Gastonia.

They are practicing attorneys here in North Carolina I'm working Patrick your consumer advocate if you get a legal question of your own, you can always call 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186. Legal information for the attorneys and they will be back in touch with you and again. You can also email your questions to questions@theoutlawyour.com guys. It's been a very busy show. So let's list, wrap it up. Talk about, summarize what we gotten into, and I will look forward to next week. Marguerite we talked, we talked a long time about Rittenhouse disaster such such a crazy case and I don't think we'll have any resolution before the weekends. I'm assuming will will spends more time talking about it next week if we will have a jury verdict and support discuss in connection with that. Yeah, you know, Josh. We talk Rittenhouse. We talked the Aaron Rodgers a scandal.

We talked the Debbie Debbie E steroid case we may use more wrestling segments going forward depending on how well received.

That is, and then you know Piggybacking off. We took what we talked about with Rittenhouse you're going forward. I think next episode will will really dive into this this mod Aubrey case is well, because it's got a lot of Lotta parallels to the Rittenhouse situation in a similar but different scenarios where you got this self-defense being claimed and just a generally interest interesting scenario that I think there's a lot to to dive into on this is one I remember when this happened and I remember I remember being angry about. Anytime you die.

I politically we don't like to look at things politically, we still look at at facts and some things just don't don't make sense. And then this one to me seemed about as senseless as as they could get. You know will will again will dive into the facts and it showed Mr. armory has done nothing, released a map and you did nothing wrong at all and this this is a slamdunk to me if I was the prosecution I would I would be feeling pretty good about my my chances, but this is one I spent a lot of time reading about this week and again were to run out of time so will will focus on it next week but this is really interesting. It brings up self-defense again and it brings up you know how you view both parties and and something like this and other similar things are as old laws that come into play in this one and this is going to be it's going to be again from an attorney's perspective is going to be interesting. I'm really interested to see what the prosecution does regarding started the trials will have a lot to talk about about yeah it's it's super interesting.

Josh and like you said it.

There's a lot of things to discuss. There's a lot of you know there's a lot of recusal that has to take place due to interpersonal relationships were dealing with kind of a small area, small town, so there's there's some prosecutor knew some of the potential defendants and you got some controversy there. And some things that come out better in a very interesting add some interesting wrinkles to this word in the with a an old Civil War era law that they're kinda trying to use to justify this and it's like you said, man. There's you know it it from what we can tell armory did nothing wrong.

And even if you assume, if you take the defendant's argument, and any say what he was burglarizing homes you know that. Still, in my opinion doesn't justify the basically run down confronted by just these individuals with weapons and an end and then murdered. Essentially, so give it a lot of parallels to the written has health case almost the polar opposite of the Rittenhouse case. At holidays, but interesting look at them together yet. I was just going to say it's a lot for one show and I like the idea of coming back next week going afresh pallet and and discuss that case, the outlaw lawyers Josh Whitaker and Joe Hamer, Whitaker and Hamer law firms where you can find that the managing partners in 46 combined years of experience at Whitaker and Hamer law firm offices in Raleigh, Garner, Clayton Goldsborough, Fuquay Marina and Gastonia.

They are practicing attorneys here in North Carolina I'm working Patrick your consumer advocate. It is about time to wrap it up. Want to get this number out one more time if you got a legal question 800-659-1186. That's 800-659-1186 or email a question to the program questions@theoutlaw.com will use it for an upcoming show and you can always visit the website.

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