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EP274: The Star Wars Toy Empire Revolution and The State of Texas tried to take down a man's Livelihood: He Fought Back

Our American Stories / Lee Habeeb
The Cross Radio
April 22, 2022 3:00 am

EP274: The Star Wars Toy Empire Revolution and The State of Texas tried to take down a man's Livelihood: He Fought Back

Our American Stories / Lee Habeeb

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April 22, 2022 3:00 am

On this episode of Our American Stories, Jarrod Roll shares the story of how Star Wars toys revolutionized movie merchandising, licensing, and even how kids play. Institute for Justice lawyer Wesley Hottot tells the story of Ash Patel's nearly six year long legal battle stemming from the Texas Board of Cosmetology requiring his eyebrow threaders to go back to school to learn other people's jobs.

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Time Codes:

00:00 - The Star Wars Toy Empire Revolution

23:00 - The State of Texas tried to take down a man's Livelihood: He Fought Back

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Based on the original Star Wars movies Star Wars toys on display are from Jared role, enthusiast, museum curator from Wisconsin and his brother Kevin owned many of the toys when they were children. As an adult, Jared collected the rest of the original toys Jared role to share the story of how Star Wars toys revolutionize movie merchandising license and even how it will go back to the beginning and that was in 1977. At that time was four years old and my mother is a fan of sci-fi she watched syndicated Star Trek episodes and she had learned of this movie called Star Wars that was coming out by the time we saw it already had gained a lot of interest. Star Wars was released in May 1977 to only 32 theaters in the United States just to put that in perspective. 32 theaters. It's when the force awakens was released. It was, it debuted in over 4000. So again, there are people who have documented the story of Star Wars movie that could and how we just changed everything.

When that movie came out it was nothing like it changed everything changed how we think about the relationship of toys, movies, merchandising, licensing how kids play and it really solidified action figure toys up to that point toys were not licensed for movies like they are now latest movies were around long enough to justify the cost for toy companies to invest in a toy line with the exception of some evergreen licenses like Disney, Looney Tunes. They were around for decades and had other ways of appearing unless it was a TV show action figure toy lines. They weren't made for movies and so that's why when the Kenner toy company signed on to be the sole producer of toys for the Star Wars movies they were taking a risk. If you go to Walmart today are our target or any place where toys are sold, you will see toys in the aisle for blockbuster movies before the movie comes out. That's a given. You want to just get the most out of it. Help even create excitement for that property but when Star Wars came out in 1977 kids like me who left the theater. We wanted toys for that movie. But there are no toys to be had.

When George Lucas was in the process of creating Star Wars he knew he had a story that would appeal to kids, so George Lucas shopped around the Star Wars license to the big toy company's first saying I've got a movie coming out. I can't tell you a lot about it. I can't show you much about it because I'm keeping it a secret, but to be science fiction involved characters. I think will translate well into a toy line and the bigger toy companies like Mattel ago. They said it will pass.

There's too much risk involved. Quite frankly you know Science Fiction is really doesn't appeal the kids right now so it's not worth the risk to do that. That's where now the Kenner toy company enters the scene a Kenner at this point they were a small toy manufacturer in Cincinnati, Ohio. There are a subsidiary of General Mills food foods so very Jocular cereal company were talking about there just the small toy arm of General Mills and so they were willing to take a look at it and it was just one of those stories where where you just had the right people for Kenner at the time that saw the potential of this movie and being a smaller company. They have slightly less risk and they can be a little more nimble versus giant toy company and so Kenner toys said we will do this we can do this. They shared some product samples without Lucasfilm and Lucasfilm said yet you you were around the same page when it comes to this and so they signed an agreement with Skillman. There were the ones to make these toys you people will tell the story about Bernie Loomis being asked the question. You know he is the president of Kenner at the time, what size tree make these action figures, and Bernie Loomis well stretched out his his finger in his thumb and said they should look should be this tall and that size was three and three-quarter inch thick decision that Kenner made was based on the idea that they knew to make this toy line really really catch on with kids.

They needed to have a world because the claimant needed to have environments recall playsets they need to have vehicles for the figures. The going and to do that you can't do that inexpensively. The 12 inch oil line up to that point opted up to 1977. 12 inch was a very common action figure or doll size for for voice calls or action figures, G.I. Joe really started that certainly solidified it in the 60s and early 70s they knew, to how the millennium falcon that you can't make a millennium falcon for 12 inch on solo. There was, you would be so expensive and there retailers when wanted for their shelves because it would dominate Michelle for itself. So they had the three and three-quarter inch line that that made sense and Bernie Loomis made that choice to keep the figures to that smaller size. For that reason, but it would take a full year before action figure toys were even available for that property. So when Christmas 77 rolls around kids like me. We want we want Star Wars toys for Christmas that you Christmas is the time that we get our 20s and fortunately Kenner you know that even though they're all working nonstop weekends round-the-clock to try to get toys out as fast as they can.

There's no way they can get him to shelves in time for the holiday. 77 season and will listen to German role tell the story of our small toy company. These the big company to the market on the Star Wars toy French when we come back more of this remarkable story about Star Wars on our American stores view of the great American stories we tell and love America like we do, or asking you to become a part of the American stories family. If you agree that America is a good and great country.

Please make a donation monthly gift of $17.76 is fast becoming a favorite option for supporters to allow American stories.com now and go to the donate button and help us keep the great American stories coming to our American stories.com. Millions will make Medicare coverage decisions for next year and United healthcare can help you feel confident about your choices for those eligible Medicare annual enrollment runs from October 15 through December 7. If you're working past age 65.

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There call your local State Farm agent for quote today doing household chores can Artie be time-consuming and tedious. There's nothing more daunting than facing piles and piles of laundry that need to be done can be overwhelming for anyone. If you want to get those larger laundry loads down bright and get back to your life. Try all three clear maggot packs all three clear mega packs are bigger packs two times the cleaning ingredients compared to a regular pack so that you can tackle any laundry load without the worry all three clear mega packs are also 100% free of perfumes and dyes and their dental and skin which is great for any family sensitive skin needs my family. We definitely have sentence again the next time the whole family gets home from long vacation or you get the kids back from summer camp or whatever the situation is. That's because this big pile of dirty clothes and all three clear maggot packs have your back purchase all three clear mega packs today and conquer any laundry load for all fabric types that we continue with our American stories and the story for museum curator Jared role. Let's pick up where Jared left off telling the story of how the small toy company Kenner took the offer from George Lucas to manufacture Star Wars stories.

After all, the big toy company's past what seemed to be too much of a gamble.

Kenner began production immediately wouldn't have a single action figure on the shelves until year after the first Star Wars movie premiere but they had a plan there again is Jared role rather than miss out on all the excitement about Star Wars that Christmas Kenner toys is Bernie Loomis is the president of the time he and his team come up with an idea.

It was a very risky idea that was the cell package to kids so that at least there's something to go under the tree that year. What that was called earlybird kit and it was approximately 16 inch 59 inch cardboard envelope. Very colorful and in the inside. All you had was a cardboard display arena with pictures of what the action figures will eventually look like there are just presentations of the characters translated in the action figures of little display arena some stickers and slip that you filled out put in the mail and then it says when these figures are available between February and June 1978, you're going to get him you'll get Luke you'll get Leah our tuition back of the first four and so is a real risk and some people scoffed at the ideas like where you quit with the idea of selling of the package for kids for Christmas. That seems like a non-gift but yet at the same time for the people that did receive those for those kids. I did receive those earlybird kits under the Christmas tree right. It wasn't the figures, but it was the next best thing. It was a promise for the figures. And at least it was something and by all accounts the people that I spoke to personally who did receive one at Christmas time. The accounts I've read. They were excited to get and many of them thousands were sold, and it's one of those just wonderful. Toy Story said is gone down in history about when Kenner sold an empty package to kids when inside all you have is a promise that is kid to be the first again when they're available is not ready right now. Merry Christmas. So the earlybird kit. If you can find one sealed like unopened were talking five figures. I honestly don't come off very often, but if you have one like I have one as part of the nostalgia wakens exhibit I have the original envelope and thankfully the kid who opened it did a really nice job opening it just on the side to slip the site open so carefully and pull the contents out so it has all the contents yet and that thing cost a few thousand dollars to buy it when I had bought because again cardboard is what you call ephemeral is not meant to last forever. I did not get the earlybird kit. As a kid at the time I was even aware of it as a kid where when I first started getting toys was when everybody else pretty much did and that was good to be in spring of 1978 so I remember the day actually.

So would've been five years old just about five yaks. I turned five in April and it was springtime's. It was warm out and my my my mom and my brother and I were over at her friends house visiting and my mother's friends son Jamie who is my age shows me a little Darth Vader action figure and I love my mom. They have toys of Star Wars. Now can you take me to go get winding after an upbringing eventually went to what we used to call five and dime stores and I still remember the creaky wooden floors and walking in there and that kind of smell.

Small town fiber dime store and walking in and seeing the display for Star Wars and walking really quickly up to it and is looking skinny with my eyes just to see what they made there and is and Is a selection of action figures on blister cards or just standing there taken off.

I look at the back and then I set it in half to make a choice and make a choice my radar and check out. I didn't know which one negatively to one is really hard time. I member C-3 PO is there and R2-D2.

Is there Sam person was there but but Luke wasn't there was a short, but Michael was there and so he was the one I picked took him home. He was my first hours action.

He's the one that started it all. And from that point on getting Star Wars toys was such an important part of my childhood, you know, it was always on my radar if I could save any little bit of money and we would stop at a small inlet or store whatever grocery store sometimes carried them and they were very expensive. There were originally they were under two bucks apiece, so there you go there it within purchasing power of a kid, but the real big.

You have the opportunity to start a collection would've been a Christmas of that your Christmas of 78. My grandparents were the ones it really gives the toys and grandparents and they would also get the Sears and JCPenney Christmas catalogs in October and I remember that you're getting. You know, laying down on the floor. The carpeted floor in the living room and turning page by page seeing those toys in there and just circling a circling a circling closer circle all you want the ball that your Christmas was wonderful to be received a lot of Star Wars product is the tree and that was amazing. Star Wars had such staying power in the late 1970s I mean we have to remember that it didn't just influence kids kids toys in his imagination influenced everything we go back and look and see the influence on entertainment.

For example, Star Wars was parodied on a Saturday night live. It was there. There were so many knockoff movies that were produced during that time adults to an adult love Star Wars as well.

It wasn't just people back then, of all ages really fell in love with that story. Those characters everybody tried to cash in on the excitement surrounding Star Wars was always there. It was always in front of us, trading cards and comic books lived on so even if that if Star Wars left your local theater.

It lived on a member getting bubblegum cards of Star Wars and those were very important because that helped me as a kid.

Remember the movie and also reap. Learn more about the Lord of the movie and these cards will tell you the names of the characters. It will tell you like what was going on in this scene because it happened so fast when you're sitting in the theater only saw twice as a kid and so these cards help fill in those gaps and really expand that story for me and it was almost cannon. It was all Star Wars was like somebody was making stuff up. It was all there, and so that helps.

Star Wars stay in my mind all throughout that time. 77 7879 and then the excitement of Empire coming out to never never waned was always there in part of it to. I wonder is that because we were never fully satisfied. You know when you're my kids today and when they see them, we were the theater and see a movie on DVD. Six months later in the watching over and over and over and over you because it's a great movie. But then insist can you, it's gone. And you know the next great blockbuster comes along. We live in a time.

Now where we have so much to me wonderful stories being told of properties that were excited about superheroes in space and things that you know that as a kid this morning.

They are, and insulate it has such staying power that, in the anticipation of the SQL we had to find out what happened next, and we saw what happened next, we find out that the good guys really lose in this movie Hansel was frozen.

Luke loses his hand in Darth Vader's father will happen next. We have to wait another three years life, waiting for that to happen, but it was always there and people making products made sure we were always reminded of Star Wars and update the they knew it to. There is always something there to remind us all books on tape so we had as a kid, I had a little story about the cassette tape and I listened over and over and over again, so I knew the movies well because I saw the movie lava because of all the soccer stuff that went along with a great job as always to Greg Jared role story of Star Wars merchandising and something more on America and American lives you on our American story millions will make Medicare coverage decisions for next year and United healthcare can help you feel confident about your choices for those eligible Medicare annual enrollment runs from October 15 through December 7.

If you're working past age 65. You might be able to delay Medicare enrollment.

Depending on your employer coverage.

It can seem confusing, but it doesn't have to be this at UHC Medicare health plan's.com to learn more United healthcare helping people live healthier lives. I know everything there is to know about running a coffee shop for small business insurance.

I need my State Farm agent make sure my business days piping hot equal and confident the small business owners to help you best. State Farm is in your corner and on like that neighbor there. Call your local State Farm agent for quote today doing household chores can Artie be time-consuming and tedious. And there's nothing more daunting than facing piles and piles of laundry that need to be done can be overwhelming for anyone. If you want to get those larger laundry loads down bright and get back to your life. Try all three clear maggot packs all three clear mega packs are bigger packs two times the cleaning ingredients compared to a regular pack so that you can tackle any laundry load without the worry all three clear mega packs are also 100% free of perfumes and dyes and their dental and skin which is great for any family sensitive skin needs my family. We definitely have sentence again the next time the whole family gets home from long vacation or you get the kids back from summer camp or whatever the situation is. That's because this big pile of dirty clothes and all three clear maggot packs have your back purchase all three clear mega packs today and conquer any laundry load for all fabric types, and we returned to our American story. Now for another long story as a part of or we show what happens when there's either absent the rule of law in our lives story about a landmark case on economic freedom in the state of Texas. My name is Wesley Hardin, senior attorney with the Institute for Justice. I worked at IJ since I graduated from law school in 2008 and my first job was at IJ's then new Texas office in Austin. I was working there a little bit late one night and think it was around 630 and a couple of guys came into the office after everyone else had left. I didn't know them but I went out to the front and introduced myself. They were Ash Patel and Amber Alisa Tommy to business owners who said that they had a problem with the state they wanted to know if I would agree to talk about it from there I learned that their business was being threatened with being shut down because they employ eyebrow spreaders. These are typically the South Asian women who use a beauty technique involving nothing but a single strand of cotton thread they put tension on that form a kind of lasso and it allows you to precisely remove hair around the eyebrows for beautification and when action Amber had set up their business. They told me they look at Texas's cosmetology laws and saw nothing specifically about threading the plowed ahead. Like all good entrepreneurs to out asking permission and it turned out that the Texas Department of licensing and regulation had after the fact decided that they thought threading was cosmetology followed that everyone that works for action and for needed a cosmetology license.

None of them had one and as we later discovered cosmetology schools teaching threading or testing one they were going to go and learn other people's cosmetology techniques they were going to go learn other people's jobs just to qualify to continue doing their jobs and talking about women that had been doing this professionally for 30 years discovering you know it at the age of 40 that the state expected them to go back to school now.

We all understand that that could be possible for variety of reasons were talking nine months of schooling in a licensed cosmetology school dirt almost always private businesses at a minimum fruit for some people it takes two years, depending on what license they're trying to get you gotta pay that private business quite a bit of money usually ranges like $7000-$15,000. You can't work while you're going to the school could be there full time.

You probably will, however, work for the private cosmetology school, which has people, and services, but they keep the money at the end of all of that. You have to take a couple of exams. There is almost always a practical component where you have to show that you know how to do the basic techniques and there's almost always a written component test you were taken school about how bacteria grow where different styles originated from what people mean when they say things like beehive cornrows.

So this is an example of what we call occupational license. It's the requirement that before you can do something to pursue a living. Even though we all consider that thing to be legal. You need the government's permission. Now there are a lot of professions that automatically come to mind when we think about occupational licensing doctors, lawyers, engineers, and indeed the licensing of those professionals has been around for a long time, but in the 1950s in this country. It was about 5% of the American workforce that required some form of occupational licensing today. It's much closer to 20% and that has profound social and economic impacts, particularly for people who are on the margins of society and on the margins of where it makes sense to begin licensing people for things cosmetology is a good example of this because it's often the first prong of the entrepreneurship ladder, especially for people from other countries who don't have a lot of language skills and a lot of other opportunities right. This is perhaps why you see recent Asian immigrants predominating in places like nail salons are why you see like recent African immigrants predominating in places like hair braiding salons. It's because they have a marketable skill that people will pay for. It's just really only got one and cosmetology licensing in the 20s might've been about basic sanitation.

But as time has gone on its become more about incumbent control of the industry. I mean there's in every state.

There's a committee who has jurisdiction over an executive agency whose responsibility it is to regulate the cosmetology history, usually by law, that agency has to be run by cosmetologists know everyone that's on the board of the Texas Department of licensing and regulation. There's supposed to be at least some people who are cosmetologists and some people who represent other walks of life and so that agency will go to the relevant lawmaking committee and say we think there need to be more restrictions on, for example, this new practice of threading that were only beginning to see in our state and the people who will be in the audience to serve provide public comment will be beauty school owners and other cosmetologists and that means that the people who control the policy outcome are the people who stand to gain or lose the most and I mean the motivation is obvious you want to keep new competition out of the market so that you can charge more so. Their basic question that night was. Can you help us and you know I I sort of gleefully said he might be able to because I had been studying up on the Texas Constitution and was familiar with a line of cases.

On the one hand that provided very robust constitutional protection against irrational regulations like this and on the other hand, I was aware of another line of cases that hewed much more closely to the federal constitutional standard economic regulations, namely the rational basis test. Is there any conceivable justification.

If there is the economic regulations constitutional so I was aware of the tension between these two lines of cases and I wanted a case involving an economic regulation that would allow us to tease them out and I immediately saw the potential in passion and perspective. When we come back without American stories. Wesley Hardin is an attorney with the Institute for Justice defending Ash Patel runs an eyebrow threading business in Texas. Millions will make Medicare coverage decisions for next year and United healthcare can help you feel confident about your choices for those eligible Medicare annual enrollment runs from October 15 through December 7. If you're working past age 65. You might be able to delay Medicare enrollment. Depending on your employer coverage. It can seem confusing, but it doesn't have to be this@uhcmedicarehealthplans.com to learn more United healthcare helping people live healthier lives.

I know everything there is to know about running a coffee shop for small business insurance. I need my State Farm agent make sure my business days piping hot people and competent business owners to help you best.

State Farm is in your corner and on like a good neighbor. There call your local State Farm agent for quote today doing household chores can Artie be time-consuming and tedious.

There's nothing more daunting and facing piles and piles of laundry that need to be done can be overwhelming for anyone. If you want to get those larger laundry loads down right and get back to your life. Try all three clear mega packs all three clear mega packs are bigger packs two times the cleaning ingredients compared to a regular pack so that you can tackle any laundry load without the worry all three clear mega packs are also 100% free of perfumes and dyes and their dental and skin which is great for any family sensitive skin needs my family.

We definitely have sentence again the next time the whole family gets home from long vacation or you get the kids back from summer camp or whatever the situation is. That's because this big pile of dirty clothes and all three clear mega packs have your back purchase all three clear mega packs today and conquer any laundry load for all fabric types back without American stories and rule of law series and the story of the Ash Patel case is told by his attorney, Institute for Justice lawyer Wesley Hunter. We last left off – Patel man who employed eyebrow fritters been told to shut down his operation and sent all of his fritters back to cosmetology school for anywhere between nine months and two years of courses didn't have anything to do with their crap. It seemed burdensome. There was a disconnect between Texas as well as in the federal laws on economic freedom. So Wesley thought he might have a case, let's continue with the store there was uncertainty in Texas law. There was one line of cases that seem to say we do something more than what the federal government is when a person complains about a regulation that's making it too difficult or impossible to support themselves and one line said that the government needed to have robust reasons that lined up with the real world.

Another words under Texas's culture, traditions and laws the government had to have a good reason for requiring restriction on someone's economic rights and that reason had to make sense in the real world give you an example. There is a case from the 60s, where a small Texas town had restricted the size of fuel tanker trucks that could come through the town. There justification for that was that they were concerned about fires what that required in practical terms was that the large tanker trucks that operate everywhere else had stopped outside of the town and transfer into two smaller tanker trucks which the court recognized based on testimony at trial was a huge risk of fire and having to trucks on the road that could go boom was worse than having one truck on the road so the court in that case called humble oil ruled that under the Texas Constitution.

The law was unconstitutional. You couldn't require that sort of irrational justification now under federal law. The story has been quite different since around the new deal. Under federal law.

We currently have an understanding of the U.S. Constitution's protections for economic liberty as being very anemic. Almost worthless. The federal Constitution.

The Supreme Court has told us requires only some conceivable justification for a law is. I think if we compare that to the humble oil case, the government's going to get a lot of leeway in determining the size of fuel tanker trucks because fuel tanker trucks and indeed the federal case law bears out that kind of government may do anything reasoning so that is why when action and or came into my office describe their problem and said can you help that is why I was so confident that there was that there because state Supreme Court's exists to resolve those kinds of conflicts within their own case law. Note lower courts are supposed to know what the law is for. They can apply it correctly and if, as in Texas have these two lines of cases, some of them federal constitutional standards and some of them queuing to the more robust Texas standards. Then there's confusion that can lead to inconsistent results depending on judgments that being the case whole point of bringing this case was to establish that under the Texas Constitution. There has to be a real and substantial connection between what the government is trying to do and how the regulation works in the real world. And even if that connection exists. Courts still ask is the regulation, unduly burdensome, in light of what the state is trying to achieve. Seems maybe like there could be a real and substantial connection to health and safety go to cosmetology school you do admittedly learn things like washing your hands, but what Texas was requiring was 750 hours of instruction. That's about nine months of full-time job. Two tests, neither of which had any material about eyebrow threading specifically or about sanitation specific to eyebrow threading and so our argument all along was, it takes about an hour to learn sanitation that you need to learn to be a safe writer need to wash her hands.

Use new thread with every customer and keep the work area clean.

So it's just inconceivable that that could take 750 hours to learn. We never disputed that there could be a license for threading. It was just that this license is 750 hour to examination requirement that didn't involve any instruction, writing was obviously unconstitutional, so like so much of public-interest law.

This case started out with the loss state one. We appealed and lost the state one in the intermediate Court of Appeals and then we had to ask the Texas Supreme Court for what lawyers call discretionary review and they agreed to take the case. We one in the Texas Supreme Court by a vote of 63 now five of those justices agreed with our argument that the state constitution requires a real and substantial relationship between a regulation and how it functions in the real world and also can't be unduly burdensome. They struck the law down based on that Texas passed one justice agreed that this law was unconstitutional, but didn't think that there needed to be an independent Texas test to make that ruling he thought the law violated the federal rational basis test, because it was just so inconceivably justified, but you know there were three dissenters who were very vocal about the fact that they did not want to be reviewing economic regulations did not take seriously. Texas being different from the federal government in terms of its protections for economic liberty and thought that it was perfectly fine that threshers were being required to spend nine months in a private beauty school learning nothing about their own jobs now. This was a huge landmark 34 for IJ was obviously life-changing for the clients. In the case.

It's an incredible feeling to have the patient's to wait years from you. We launch this case in 2009 and we got a decision from the Texas Supreme Court in 2015 is about five and half years from beginning to and and was mostly losing so you know it's an incredible feeling to have that that victory call with your client, but there's so much work that needs to be.

I mean, this is one case in a sea of burdensome economic regulations that really require court intervention and it's very difficult to get at least judges of the current generation to unlearn what they were taught in law schools that there is no economic regulation that a court can strike down you know what what is needed here is like what is needed and so many other aspects of American life today. Nuance of course it's true that the political branches have the right to decide who should get to practice what occupations, but it is also true that we should not allow them to do that at the behest of the regulated industry and only for their benefit in the American constitutional order. Courts are there to ensure that individuals rights are being honored in the lawmaking process right and it's absolutely essential that there be more cases like Patel where particularly state courts, but ultimately federal courts as well take seriously the time-honored individual right to use your own labor your own hands to support yourself free of any restrictions that are justified by a need that the public has not a need that a particular lobbyist or lobby and a special thanks to Monty Montgomery for his great work on the piece.

And special thanks to Wesley hot it, the Institute for Justice attorney who you heard tell this remarkable story this important story. Another rule of law story and a part of our rule of law series here on our American story millions will make Medicare coverage decisions for next year and United healthcare can help you feel confident about your choices for those eligible Medicare annual enrollment runs from October 15 through December 7.

If you're working past age 65. You might be able to delay Medicare enrollment.

Depending on your employer coverage.

It can seem confusing, but it doesn't have to be this at UHC Medicare health plan's.com to learn more United healthcare helping people live healthier lives.

It's dramas you may know me from the recap on LA TV abdominal podcast life as a going to come at you every Tuesday and Thursday will be talking real and unapologetic about all things light Latin culture and everything in between. From someone who's never quite listen to life as a gringo on the iHeartRadio app or web, you get podcast brought to you by State Farm like a good neighbor, State Farm is there any Manet and Rick Schwartz were here for the San Diego zoo wildlife alliance where the host of amazing wildlife show iHeartRadio that deep dives into the fascinating world of the animal kingdom and our conservation efforts through San Diego zoo partnerships so Rick I cannot tell the difference between a leopard and Jaguar. What sets them apart.

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