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Marriage Communication

MoneyWise / Rob West and Steve Moore
The Cross Radio
February 16, 2022 5:07 pm

Marriage Communication

MoneyWise / Rob West and Steve Moore

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February 16, 2022 5:07 pm

Open and honest communication between husband and wife is a key factor in the success of a marriage—all the more so when the topic is money. On today's MoneyWise Live, host Rob West will welcome Howard Dayton, author of Money and Marriage God’s Way, to talk about communication in marriage. Then Rob will answer your financial questions from a biblical perspective. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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French novelist Andre Moore wall once a happy marriage is a long conversation which always seems to short by Rob West open and honest communication between husband and wife is a key factor in the success of a marriage all the more so when the topic is money talk about that with Howard Deighton today that it's on your calls at 800-525-7000 1300 525-7000. This is moneywise live financial decisions. Well, it's always a joy to introduce guy sit in this chair. Our Deighton former host of this program is also the founder of compass, finances, God's way and agree great friend Howard. Welcome back. How wonderful to be with you again, Rob always enjoyed Howard in your book money and marriage God's way you stress the importance of talking with your spouse. I know this is been an important part of your teaching Howard for a long long time and you tell an interesting story in that book about your neighbors wanted to lead off with that today Rob I got a text from my neighbor Carlos asking you to schedule an urgent meeting with he and his wife Elsa. So the next morning we met and they describe their challenges. Carlos everyone in the problems when ever we try to discuss money that we both know we gotta get be honest, because our financial situation is unhealthy and also really for the sake and probably survival of our marriage, and it turns out Carlos had been raised by parents who never discussed money in front of their children, so he tended to withdraw and refused to talk if he sensed or a conflict coming out on the other hand, Elsa's parents constantly followed finances so she would react angrily when Carlos would discuss their money situation and I told him it just can't have a great marriage and unity in your finances without great communication.

So I ask that you heard what Jesus said in the book of Matthew.

Every household divided against itself will not stand and Robert went on to explain the key not being divided is to communicate well with each other and to know what God says about money and marriage.

So true Howard and will unpack that as we go along today. But first, unmarried couples jumpstart this effective communication you're describing. That's a great question round asking questions is a tangible way of demonstrating that she care that you want to understand what your spouse feels not enough thinking step we can take to improve our communication is to improve our skills yet so tomorrow spouse to freely share with us. We must give undivided attention. Maintain eye contact and be careful that you don't fall prey to the temptation to jump in and allow our partners talking in it so often we just don't really listen but worth thinking about what quick solution we can present as soon as the other person starts talking yes, but respectful listening really is key to understanding your spouse's feelings and needs.

So many conflicts result from mistaken assumptions about what others really me so ask as many questions as necessary until you fully understand the others viewpoint and you want to be patient and don't interrupt, and as you're working on your listening skills are actually building the foundation for cooperation and problem solving in a much healthier marriage. Well, I couldn't agree more. You hit on something Howard and I want you to talk a bit more about you said that you need to say what you really mean when your spouse asked the question why is that so important.

It's just she's putrid absolutely important so many people are afraid to expose their real feelings.

Rob even their spouse. Someone might say I don't want to use a budget because it's a hassle when what they really mean it is afraid of budgets going to stop me from spending what I want but that honest sharing of feelings enables us to identify the differences between husband and wife so that they can talk through and this really creates the kind of atmosphere that takes to grow a healthier marriage and that's exactly the problems that also expressed Carlosto get very different problem that he said it always seem like Elsa wanted him to talk about money when he was exhausted. He just didn't feel like dealing with.

Yes. Well, this is such a critical topic hourly come back from a break will talk about money dates how you overcome different backgrounds and much more. Stay with us will be right back to the program around West your host.

Joining me today.

My good friend Howard Dean, former host of this program and founder of compass, finances, God's way. Were talking about one of Howard's favorite topics and that's money and marriage.

By the way, if you haven't checked out his book by that title, money, and marriage God's way. You need to pick it up and I Howard you're giving us some practical ideas and thoughts on how we can improve our communication around money in marriage. You talked about having a money conversation and then you say in your teaching that picking the right time and place to talk about money is really important. Unpack that force will it really is Rob. Ecclesiastes 3 tells us there's a time to be silent and a time to speak. So I told this dear couple Carlos and Elsa turn off your phone stir up the TV get away from any other distractions and pick a time when you're not tired or stressed out, and certainly not just after the bill, you make sure that you talk in person try to solve conflicts by email or texting that neither of these allow you to observe the body language and heart which is a huge part of communication and thankfully both Carlos and Elsa agreed with this approach.

I'm sure they did was very helpful.

Howard honesty is obviously a cornerstone to all of this. It's critical for a marriage to succeed and that certainly extends to the topic of money. But this idea of honesty is a real breakdown for many couples in this area is it sure is Rob unfortunately get this nearly 55% a couple five financial assets from each other. While some people think that proceeding there made about spending your financial decision is really nothing more than a harmless secret and innocent little white lie but it's deadly. The relationship Proverbs 1222 dead man's words for blind lips are an abomination to the Lord. Those who act faithfully are his delight. So if you cannot disclose debt. For instance, that you have your spouse first prayed that the Lord would prepare him or her to receive this news well then, secondly, develop a plan to pay off the debt then meet with your spouse. Express your desire to be completely transparent completely honest, disclose the debt plan to pay it off, seek forgiveness and ask your spouse to meet with you and I think is really important. Every single week for money date to review your finances so that this will never happen again. Such great counsel.

How are you been telling us the story that comes from your book money marriage God's way about your neighbors, Carlos and Elsa. You mentioned that they came from different backgrounds.

This is so common with the married couple, especially as it relates to money terms of how money was handled. Growing up how much money each person had. And this is something that couples really have to overcome is it sure is Rob sometimes our reluctance to talk about finances or hesitation. Be honest about what we're doing with money comes from patterns and our family as we were growing up in one or both of the spouses was previously married. There's actually a tendency to impose on your new spouse. Some of the emotional baggage of your former bait. If your previous spouse spent too much or wasn't a good provider. Do not presume that your new spouse will act in that same way that we need to be very careful not to distrust new spouse because of what happened in an earlier marriage, but it's great counsel. You mentioned this idea of money dates a couple of times already today and look for you to describe what that looks like as if somebody is going to begin a new rhythm as it relates to communication and marriage around money. I think this is a big idea. What is a money date.

Well, it's a time once a week. That's convenient time for both of you to get together and focus on your finances.

By doing praying together. Secondly review your income, spending for the week and third by celebrating the progress of the Lord enables you to make money. Dates are not the place to argue such try to change or your spouse's mind is really a fact-finding time both of you can get on the same page of here. We are financially and here's our plan to improve our finances and I love abundant date because they establish the habit of that regular financial conversations when there is no crisis. Many couples don't really begin a conversation about money unless it's a problem in the panic buttons are good punched and that's really when tension can reach the boiling point in a hurry. I would blame defensiveness could take over gets really personal can be hurtful with couples even screaming at each other instead of working to solve the problem. What would you typically bring to a money database is the time to actually review the budget spending to that point in the month and then look forward to anticipate things that are coming talk about some of the key ingredients are practical, blocking and tackling Rob, you're exactly right. She worry on the budget what's been spent any surprises you. Any pleasant surprises on how you been able to handle your money which are income that looks stable to me all the basic things that a couple needs to rush into the ground, but your cornerstone of that meeting is your budget and progress on the budget and having a financial statement which can be updated to really encourage the couple. Lord willing to see that they're getting out of debt or their savings increasing order giving is increasing those things which are really cheap to having a successful marriage, no doubt. I suspect there's a prayer element to money date as well. This is been something you've taught on for a long time as it relates to money and marriage talk to us about the importance of prayer. It's huge. I love Robert Matthew 1819 to 20 tells us if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask walk. It will be done for you by my father in heaven. Jesus speaking for two or three come together in my name, there I am also just think about this the husband and wife when there's unanimity in agreement there.

Praying for a particular issue court you know were two or three are gathered in my name done for you.

I mean, it's one of the greatest promises from what you and all Scripture particularly relates to the husband and wife relationship centered around money is no question about it in Howard we get this area of our lives right. It's so much bigger for the marriage than money is. It really isn't in a Rob people asked me. You know what beach you are teaching people what God says about money is get people out of dad or get them on a budget, that's great. Really my life versus Luke 1611 if therefore you have not been faithful.

New store really well for money will and trust the true riches to the true riches.

The course is that personal intimate relationship with Christ. And so as husband and wife individually and together handle their money in a way that pleases the Lord. According to God's word, the byproduct of that is that they're gonna fall more deeply in love with Christ and each other love it Howard, thank you for stopping by my friend, this is been a blessing.

Love you Rob Lord bless you you to our date was better yesterday. You can read a lot more on this topic in his book, money, and marriage God's way, your calls and asked 800-525-7000 800-525-7000. This is moneywise live biblical wisdom for your financial journey stay with us back to moneywise live biblical wisdom for your financial decisions and Rob West is delighted to have you along with us today taking your calls and questions on anything financial number is 800-525-7000 800-525-7000 whatever is on your mind today, financially speaking, would love to hear from you. Give us a call.

We have a few lights open, but said right to the phones. First up today in Baltimore, Maryland hi Lynn, thank you for calling.

How can I help you very well. Things program. And I'm looking for part-time work and home job with my children line and I would need to work for a company where I would now term life insurance and often create no automatic pay prepayment plan payment does one company in MLM multilevel marketing capture and I want you to be concerned about what the company may only do timeline which is all I would die at any recommendation that my laptop off by only telling timeline, should I look into a company that now: you never left while that's a great question.

Well first of all I'm not against multilevel structures in and of themselves.

I think you have to be careful because there are good and bad multilevel marketing companies in one of the hallmarks of a bad multilevel marketing company is that they require you to buy some type of expensive starter kit, or perhaps sales videos they held you to buy more and it will make you spend a lot of money to go to get going and it's really more about what they're selling to you than they are. Know anything else here when it comes to financial services where these models are in place. A lot of times you just have to be careful that you're not selling a subpar product you need to make sure that you really do believe in the product. It's being offered both in terms of what the product is as well as the pricing that goes along with it. So you know are you selling something that either. In the case of an investment typically has subpar returns are in the case of an insurance product is more expensive than you might find out there on the open market so I would be looking at that, but in terms of you know whether or not I would be comfortable with you being in the insurance business and only having term life to sell. I think that's completely fine to me that would be the product that I would recommend for the vast majority of people just because it really is that pure insurance as we talk about on this program so often where you're able to get the coverage you need with the least cost possible because you're not trying to mix your savings and your insurance so you get the adequate coverage you need to protect your family, usually 10 to 12 times your income if that's what you're looking to replace as up at a minimum, and then you'd go up from there. If you want to try to cover a mortgage sure college education something like that. There are cases for permanent insurance will often that would be where you have a lifelong dependence or something like that but you know, for the vast majority of people you can have plenty of folks to sell term life insurance do and I think it will be the most appropriate and very best solution for them. So that part doesn't concern me. So I think the more back to you know are you do you really believe in the company that you're working for. Have you done your due diligence to make sure that they get good reviews and are highly rated.

What about customer service. How are thing of the support you and are those product you're selling. Genuinely you the very best thing for your client in terms of the. The rating of the insurance company and the price structure that's behind it and if you felt good about that than I would say no, go right ahead. A lot of times what they're looking for is your they know that there's got to be a lot of people flowing in and out and so you know they are counting on you getting your friends and family and they don't expect you to stick this with it that long guilt because that's just their model.

So again I think if you've done your homework and you really feel like this is a great company for you to beware that I would say you know there's no problem with either at the core it being multilevel or secondly that you only have term life insurance but give me your thoughts on that. All had a great looking and I didn't think that my typing and I are comfortable going and getting there.

What are the start of because of the require you to pay for training or anything like that is all that covered by the company itself. Training on a $25 a month for their online data. Me and why they are not around. $75 Internet company seems fairly minimal. So I think again it's you. None of that concerns me.

I think at the end of the day is to come down to you really feel like you have a great product. You can be proud to represent and tell everybody about is your out there in the marketplace and if you do that, I'd say proceed. That should should be a great place for you to be. We appreciate your call and thanks for your kind remarks and for listening to the program so using Georgetown, Texas. It looks like so you can read $20 so I thought everything .1 .2 .5 .25 now I want to take money out mean any okay is a lot to unpack. There's some and ask you to hold working to pause and take a brief break we come back, talk about all aspects of this doesn't make sense to refinance and should you take cash out.

Especially when he was one of return just around the along with us today. I moneywise live on Rob Wester hose.

This is where we apply God's word to your financial decision. Figure calls and questions on anything financial we have three lines open 800-525-7000 back to the phones before the break we were talking with Sonya from Georgetown Texas so you you were sharing that you have a home with a mortgage at about 4 1/2%. The current interest rate you owe just under 220,000 you are looking at refinancing and pulling out somewhere between 50 $40-$50,000 in cash to pay down debt, namely a car loan and some credit card debt that you've accumulated your 4 1/2% you are looking to replace that with the rates right around well, about the same level somewhere between 4 1/4 and 4 3/4% on the rate your couple of thoughts there. Number one is I'm not a big fan of of what you're trying to do here mainly because if we just look at whether or not it makes sense to refinance the loan itself. Forget the other debt.

For a moment. It really doesn't, in the sense that I would want you to save at least a percent on the rate and in the most cases you're looking at staying even in one case, or even looking at going up a bit. I am wondering though why because rates shouldn't be as high as you're being quoted. I mean 30 year fixed rates right now you should be able to get something under four for 20 or 20 year you should be able to find something around 3 1/2% so I want you to save at least a point. I think you have to go to a 20 year loan in order to do that which is what I would prefer because my second issue with this is you have 25 years remaining on this mortgage and you're looking at a new 30 year so in addition to not saving that full point on the interest rate you're actually increasing the term so a lot of the savings you're trying to gain by paying down debt. Apart from the mortgage which will talk about the second is going to be eaten up by the fact that you're now spreading this out over another five years and the first portion of the mortgage with an amortized loan. The vast majority of the ghost interest in your, resetting that clock so I would want you to find a 20 year mortgage we could save at least a point meeting a 3 1/2% interest rate for 20 years before I would really consider you doing this from my perspective. Now what about rolling debt into it.

Well I'm not a fan of that, either for two reasons, mainly number one your credit card debt is unsecured in your car loan is secured by your cars something happens you lose a job you're unable to make those payments you know you have a judgment probably against you. You may lose the car.

But you don't lose your house and I think what you're doing is you're taking this debt and securing it to your home. Not only that, even though I know you're looking for the reduced interest rate euros spread it out over a long payback. So even though the interest rate is coming down because of the 30 year term on it, you end up spending a good bit over the long haul. I think the other issue is I really want to solve the underlying issue that led to the debt in the first place. I don't know what it is we don't need to unpack that. But most often that kind of credit card debt is a result of lifestyle spending where we just spending beyond her means over a long period of time and I really want to get in there and solve that and have you get into a balanced budget and I realize part of you doing this may be to in fact sold for that but I would love for you to do the hard work of cutting expenses and just really grinding it out getting that debt into a credit counseling program like with Christian credit counselors.org so we can get the interest rates down, but you leave it where it is as unsecured debt.

We make one monthly payment month after month, with a balanced budget to get that paid off once and for all my experiences is that you try to roll it into the house. Not only are we extending the term. Not only are we securing it by your home, but we haven't done the hard work and so year later not only do you have a mortgage balance is 40 or $50,000 higher the credit card debts back because we didn't solve the problem.

So I think for all of those reasons, I would love for you to pass unless you settlement to leave the debt word is to really buckle down on my mortgage and the only thing that I do is refinance my mortgage and as long as you can. You know, cut the terms of go from 25 to 20 years and save at least a point on the interest rate and you're willing to stand at home for 5 to 7 years at a minimum, then that might make sense. At that point I would just want to make sure you don't pay too much in closing costs.

I know I've thrown a ton at you there. Give me your thoughts and tried it happen and are like a lifestyle that was going to trip and I did not immediately.

I quickly turned and found much easier to just go that way because the only thing remaining out anything when I went to credit counseling when they can't do any of the carts assigned to charge or reduced interest that they decide to give you.

You don't have to pay for the IRS. That's if you go the route of debt settlement which is different than debt management.

So debt settlement is where you, in many cases stop making the payments get into collections and try to negotiate a reduced payoff less than the balance in the difference between the balance and the settlement is actually taxable. You're right. That's not the case with the debt management you're going to pay the balance in full.

You're just going to do it at a much lower interest rate and there is no taxable event there, so that's a completely different approach. I don't. I'm not a fan of debt settlement. I do like that management so to learn more. Just visit with our friends. A Christian credit counselors.org. If you do want to explore the refi I get at least three quotes on the 20 year mortgage. It may mean the payment goes up slightly.

Those you really need to look at that because even though the lower interest rates can help if you get around 3 1/2 for a 20 year because it's a 20 year instead of the 30 year mortgage that amortized payments may be slightly higher, which may you price it out of your budget. Given all the other things you're trying to do so, you may just want to stick with this mortgage.

For now focus on buckling down on your budget. Your spending plan and trying to get out of credit card debt first through debt management, then the car and then perhaps at that point you take a look.

Another look at mortgage I think is okay. God bless you Debbie's in Lakeland, Florida hi Debbie, thank you for your patience can help you call wanting some of our savings account at around $200,000 in it bank getting almost nothing and so when looking at companies that have Christian values and have heard some appetites on your program so I to question how do I really don't feel confident in comparing the investment companies. I don't know what to look for and marketed taken a downturn. It seems every day, down, down, down, and so I'm wondering if rather than investing in my little chunk of it if we should read it.

Now I don't I don't know what more you know, that's great thoughts have to take a quick break when we come back on the other side it will talk about how you approach this couple things you mention one is having faith-based investments. I can address that how you should approach investing in a market like were in right now where it's described as choppy at best and I given the fact you want this money to work for you, but you're also a little leery of what's going on around us in the economy and the markets will address that and more.

Just around the corner. This is moneywise lives there with us joining us today on moneywise my wisdom your financial decisions you visit our website recently with love for you to check it out moneywise.org while you're there. Create a free moneywise account that will be sure that you are signed up to receive our moneywise weekly wisdom email where I share a thought with you each week to encourage you as steward of God's money to share our trending podcasts are featured articles and content are verse of the week and much more its owner weekly wisdom email, you'll be sure to get it when you sign up again. Just create a free account when you get to moneywise.org while you're there if you consider becoming a financial partner of ours here at moneywise media would be grateful. What we do on the air each day is a direct result of your listener support. We are a listener supported ministry and so you would consider a one-time gift, perhaps even partnering with us monthly would be grateful. Just click the donate button again moneywise.org when you get there you'll find an address to send in a physical check that you could call and talk to one of our team members or you can give online. Thanks in advance puts it back to the phones. Debbie's in Lakeland.

Debbie just before the break, you're sharing that you and your husband have about 200,000 in savings. It's really not earning a whole lot you're interested in moving it into the market that you're concerned about what's going on around us with some of the choppy markets.

It seems like the market is incredibly volatile these days and you're absolutely right away in on that. But a couple of questions. First is this separate and aside from what I call an emergency fund of 3 to 6 months expenses.

I okay so if you were to pull what are you what you spend on a monthly basis all in roughly the thing is 4000 5000 must not okay let's say it's three all that okay let's it's 3000 so that would mean that your for three months expenses and look for you have 9000 for six months expenses delivery to have 18,000 in the bank so I think that we would want to pull out right up front and say okay there were only going to consider investing the balance now. Are you all investing currently into retirement accounts okay for you and your husband working. Therefore both contributing okay and you know what percent of your income is going in.

Sure exactly what percent Pleasant Hill I'd love for you will to get up to 10 to 15% and one thing you could do this if you say listen during our three or 4% and if we bumped it up. You know, that would really eat into our monthly cash flow and that would be challenging.

One of the ways you could do that would be to go ahead and bump up which are contributing to your retirements but offset that with this $200,000 and so the goal would be to get that invested. But to prioritize getting that invested in a tax-deferred environment as opposed to a taxable environment because if we begin investing in. We may decide to take the hundred or hundred 50,000 of this and start investing it. That may be a great thing to do.

But if you were to that you know really dial up the amount going into the retirement plan for long-term savings again. Now, growing either tax-deferred or tax-free, depending on what type of account. It is and then offset the impact to your monthly cash flow by pulling from that 200. It's a way to cut a slowly drain the 200 and get much more going in in the tax-deferred environment so that's option number one in terms of how to approach whatever portion of that 200 you decide to invest. I think you need to recognize number one that this is going to be long term money so as long as this is 10 years plus that I'd say there's no reason not to invest in the market deal. Keep in mind, there has been a lot of volatility as of late because of the Fed because Russia, Ukraine, because of the lingering effects of the pandemic because the market has been so red hot the last couple years, and even the 10 years before that because what's happening with interest rates and inflation.

There's a lot of headwinds right now. But despite that, you have to put it in perspective.

Yet, the S&P 500, the 500 largest companies in United States are down about 7% so far in 2022. But there still up almost 14% over the last 12 months and it's up to a 15% average annual return over the last 10 years that's 15% per year.

So this is really just kind of a blip on a huge upswing, but you are also getting in it. You know what you might say is you know near the top, but I would say near the top for now right because again if were long-term in nature. We recognize that investing in stocks and bonds in a properly diversified portfolio is the very best place to build wealth, and in light of the inflation we have now. It's really essential because you're losing purchasing power every month by not investing. So how do you go about it. Well I would say you would want to hire a professional because as you said you want to be in faith-based investments, which is great but how do you know which one to pick and how do you know what's properly diversified. You know, do you want to go into fund a refund.

BN is there duplication and those so that means you're not diversified and in all of those considerations. So if it were me I would sit down with a certified kingdom advisor. I'd interviewed two or three talk through your whole financial plan including are you on track ahead or behind with your retirement savings. What should you be putting away every month and look at this other 200,000 minus the emergency fund in light of how to invest that and what would happen as they would probably begin to strategically over time deploy that money into the market and do it in a portfolio that makes sense based on your age and objectives. And if this is your desire to have the.

The investments reflect your values and the good news is, as you said, there's some wonderful fun families and investment options now that allow you to reflect your values in the course of your investments. This that make sense to you company well you would want to find one that has it interesting you say that in the next couple of months were actually adding a subspecialty to the CK designation for those advisors that are able to offer specifically faith-based investments they've gone through additional screening and been able to demonstrate that they can offer faith-based investing because not all advisors do and not even all certified kingdom advisors do so is a part of your interview process, you would know that is a CK. They met the high standards and they been trained to apply biblical wisdom, but you'd want to ask, are you able to offer me faith-based investments. Specifically, many of them do some of them don't. That will be very easy to find on our website in the next few months. For the time being, you'll just need to make that a part of your interview process) website moneywise.org click find a CK think that will give you what you need. Thanks for calling Debbie God bless you Furman is in Aurora, Illinois hi there Karen ahead thank you very well have one full knowledgeable of yourself. Think I'll be brief. I am 56 years and three months and I was gonna retire next month. Take my Social Security and I keep anything I see. Email to bottom like the everything popping up on Facebook and how to save money save on your tactic of salsa security and it's all new to me so I have no idea what my looking at what the what can I do to save my taxes yeah I'm not sure specifically what you're mentioning there, you know, I think at this point you would just want to be looking you know if you were to itemize on your taxes that would be one way to save if you know giving over and above your your standard deduction.

If you had a business you can look for ways to save their there's not really any specific strategies necessarily to save on Social Security. I think the key for you is just to decide when you want to begin claiming benefits. So you know when you're ready and I would wait till full retirement age. If you can, you just completed application@ssa.gov. Or you can call them on their toll-free number or you could typically go down to their office, but due to coated. You have to make a virtual appointment but know that that's I think the very best thing for you to do that this point is just to look at the winds the right time to begin claiming in this season of life and I delay as long as you can if you're in good health so hopefully that helps you I think guides never bad though out Furman to have a AICPA or accountant to walk alongside you to make sure you are not paying anything more than you have to to the government and taxes. Have you been doing that yourself. Perhaps now's the time to check that out. We appreciate your call today to finish today in Indianapolis hi Pam, thanks for going to read it myself and working we finance and I was concerned about the closing, with my current mortgage or that I didn't learn soon enough, but I do now from listening to you that probably that I'm been our family home that we boycott and not currently on 3.5.

I just thought it recently priced at 228,000 this month and I am a 65,000 monthly payment is 11 temperament on paying off except for a HELOC 35,700 and is now at a variable rate of 5% running around that is not terrible and clicking on that for 29 great finance would be an eight year market and I didn't want to go out any farther and they went. I would be borrowing hundred and 11,000 payment would be 1521 per month for dollar for us and I could afford to pay at least 500 a month come to play more and payment is closing cost $7000 interest rate, 1.99 okay so what's happening there. Is there having to buy down the rates in order to get that. That's why those closing costs are so high I'd really love for you not to pay more than three or 4%.

So I get at least 2 to 3 more bids on that. I look at a 10 year, but you can pay it off as quick as you want will talk a bit more of the air were out of time, hold the line. That's good to do it for us today moneywise. Love is a partnership between Moody radio and money what you want to say thank you to my team today. Thank you for being here is welcome back and join us tomorrow