3 Questions (and Answers) About Giving Stock

This time of year. It's always good to reflect on our giving with Hebrews 1316 in mind do not neglect to do good and to share what you have for such devices are pleasing to God is rapidly approaching the time when, where, perhaps, feeling just a bit more generous. Today Rob West Tosh and Jeff Carver of the National Christian foundation about a different way to be generous. Your calls at 800-525-7000 times more three questions and answers about giving stock on moneywise line imager in the Twin Cities for the National Christian foundation. He has 25 years of experience working at the intersection of business and ministry and today he has some insights on how we can be more creative with our giving. Well, that's right. And it's a way we can be wise and generous at the same time and were all about that, Jeff. Great to have you with us today on the program. Yeah, thanks so much for having you around, delighted, of course, we're talking about giving appreciated stocks or mutual funds, and Jeff, I'd love for you to start out by explaining why it's important to get familiar with this option even if someone isn't quite ready to take advantage of it.

Sure Rob Welch were in the midst of a crazy year here with 2020 and covered 19 and everyone's finances are in a bit of a different place for some investment portfolios have grown, and the idea of giving stock is timely and for others, they may just be starting out where they may have had a challenging year financially in the idea of giving stock may be more appropriate in years, so first. This is a way to be more generous right now and for others as you point out, it's a very worthy goal for the future.

So tell us about making charitable gifts of stock. How does it work well maybe just start with a little bit of a story. I got a phone call a couple weeks back from one of her clients.

Joe is an engineer and young executive at company here in the Twin Cities and Joan Katie give about $30,000 year. Charitably, about $20,000 to their church and about $10,000 to other organizations that their passion about and they were interested in a couple things number one the possibility of giving appreciated securities number two. How might they pre-fund some of their charitable giving for the future.

So in the event that maybe to have a little bit more challenging year financially down the road.

They've got some resources set aside to be able to honor those commitments that they've made so Joe has had the opportunity to participate through his company and employee stock purchase program and that program enables him to purchase stock from his company and then hold it for a period of time, and over the last couple of years that initial round of shares that he purchased has appreciated. In fact, it's doubled. And so what we discussed was the possibility of looking at gifting shares of stock instead of cash for this year.

So what Joe would do is what we call it the NCF a give then sell some. Most of us think about selling our stock maybe and then at the end of the year making a gift of cash, but we turn that kind of upside down, and so we encourage givers to think about giving first so giving those shares of appreciated securities and then and then allowing the NCF to sell those shares under his public charity tax exemption and in doing so what happens is the NCF is able to avoid taxes related to capital gain on those shares that have been that have been gifted. So what Joe and Katie are looking at doing is making a gift this year of $40,000 in stock that he's purchased through that that employee stock purchase program. We will turn around and sell those shares and avoid approximately $6000 in capital gains taxes. They then will receive an immediate tax deduction on their income taxes for the full fair market value of $40,000 and then in doing so. What they do is they position themselves to be able to make that gift of about $20,000 to their church.

Over the next year. Support those ministries that they're passionate about the tune of about $10,000 over the next year and then set aside the last $10,000 for future giving.

I love it so they're actually giving more than they would have given before or by taking this asset, and using that as the giving engine if you will him everybody wins in money is into the kingdom that perhaps wouldn't have been there otherwise.

Well we come back we'll explore this in much greater detail.

Sure will Jeff Carver with us today at the National Christian foundation talking about some different and creative ways to do your year and giving back and take some calls later in the program on any financial topic that's of interest to you. 800-525-7000.

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Problems can overwhelm us to the point that we feel like a prisoner with her mind racing and struggling to find relief get out of control when we turn to drugs, drinking, or anything else to make that pain go away. But that brings even more pain and freedom becomes more elusive. There is another way the Bible says in Galatians 51. It was for freedom that Christ set us free.

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And if that is running you will, freedom and peace of mind. Christian credit counselors can help where a nationwide nonprofit counseling organization has helped over 3000 individuals in the last 27 years get out of credit card debt 80% faster while honoring that data and phone to learn how Christian credit counselors can help you visit Christian credit counselors.org Christian credit counselors.or call 800-557-1985 Jeff Carver is with us today moneywise live hostess Rob West were talking about the benefits of giving appreciated stock funds other securities. There are benefits to that that lots of people don't necessarily think about) what that's exactly right.

And Jeff to that point, you know 90% of giving is done in the form of cash, and yet only about 10% of our wealth is held in cash which means if most of our wealth is on our balance sheet, that his assets were missing a huge opportunity for giving in this idea of giving stocks and mutual funds plus business interests in real estate and any other assets is really an exciting giving opportunity isn't. You bet Rob and in fact it's really one of the most incredible untapped opportunities in the kingdom. So many of us think about giving in terms of our income on an annual basis and very few of us think about our charitable giving as it relates to the other assets that we hold or the assets that sit on our personal balance sheet.

So while many of us have heard work or even have participated in gifting of appreciated securities.

There's also the opportunity give all sorts of other assets including real estate, whether it be farmland or investment property or even closely held business interests, such as a young baby shares in a family-owned business like a C corporate S corpora or an LLC or partnership exactly what Jeff just before the break you were talking about this young engineer who would purchase some company stock and it actually doubled in value over time. And then he and his wife were able to give this to their church and other ministries and maximize that gift by giving directly to their a donor advised fund which allowed all kinds of tax benefits and ultimately more dollars getting into the kingdom of this donor advised fund is an incredible tool or a vehicle for giving that can receive not only stocks and mutual funds but other assets like you just described that for those who are just learning about a donor advised fund maybe for the first time just talk quickly about what that tool is well.

A donor advised fund or as we call them at the NCF a giving fund is really a charitable savings account so it's an account in which individuals or couples or families can make gifts of cash appreciated securities or other assets you receive an immediate income tax deduction for the fair market value of what you've gifted and then you can invest those resources and and see them grow over time. So you have the flexibility of gifting now and then granting out either immediately over time, or even saving those resources to be able to grant out at at a future date. Yeah well it's an exciting tool and as you mentioned, tremendous benefits are, let's get back specifically to this idea of gifting publicly traded securities. So stocks, mutual fund shares, etc. these would be of course held in a taxable account held for at least a year where there is meaningful appreciation and you described this give then sell approach through the National Christian foundation where you get the full benefit in terms of the deduction and the charity gets the full use of the money without any capital gains tax being paid. Net plus the fair market value, income tax deduction as well. There are some other benefits.

Though Jeff to this strategy delivery describe those welders cash flow considerations so the ability to find charitable giving from your investments, even in a season when cash is tight so it's been fun this year in the midst of what has been a challenging season financially for many we've have many givers that have been able to continue to support the organizations that are passionate about because they parked charitable assets over the course the last several years and that has enabled them to be able to continue to honor those commitments. Additionally, there's the benefits related to flex ability and timing the ability to gift now and grant later and finally there's a benefit of some additional investment flexibility that you provide your financial advisor when you gift stock. Let's talk about that for a moment. For folks who have a financial advisor, Jeff, and we certainly hope most of them do what those advisors likely to say about donating appreciated stocks. Most financial advisors are aware of the benefits of giving appreciated securities drop but for those that are not will include some resources on a webpage, we set up in partnership with you and it's at moneywise.org/NCF so you can direct your advisors there. The benefits for financial advisors are really two full number one on the opportunity to rebalance your portfolio so I gifting shares in one asset class then using the cash that you would've given to charity to instead rebalance your portfolio by purchasing shares in a different asset class and then secondly financial advisors love the ability to reset your cost basis even when you repurchase the same shares that that you've gifted you can realize the benefit of resetting your cost basis on those shares, which has the effect of reducing taxes down the road when you ultimately sell them in my experience Jeff advisors really love that flexibility, but perhaps there some that have some hesitation. So what would you say there will really the only hesitation that we run into you with any regularity is that some financial advisors have not worked with our clients in the past to facilitate gifts of stock or they just haven't worked with the NCF but that's where our team really comes in. We are thrilled to connect with financial advisors explain the opportunity and help walk them through the process. Great.

Obviously the other party involved here is the charity itself for your church or ministry. How does giving stock or appreciated mutual fund shares benefit by church or favorite ministry will ministries love when givers give stock and they primarily do so because it actually enables givers to give more. Many givers choose to pass along those additional tax savings that they realize in the form of their stock gift to charity and so going back to our example a little bit earlier with Joe and Katie they would realize additional tax savings. About $6000 and they may choose to actually gift those additional dollars that they saved charity, increasing their support so ministries love that, and they also love when givers give out of their investment portfolio rather than just their income because it opens up the opportunity to gift from our full pool of resources, many of our givers give stock Rob periodically into an NCF giving fund to pre-fund future giving them when times are bit tighter. They're able to consistently maintain their support to churches and their favorite charities. Yeah Jeff just a few seconds left were so thankful for our partnership with NCF because you come alongside givers to help them give efficiently and effectively, and do it in community as well. So talk about as we wrap up here today NCF's role in this and how you all can help what we talked a lot about the transactional side of making charitable gifts, but really the thing that NCF and I and our team of people both in Atlanta and 30 offices across country are most passionate about is the transformational opportunities that come when we really step into our journey of generosity. I love it well were so thankful for our partnership and appreciate you stopping by Jeff today to talk about this really exciting giving opportunity. Thank you so much.

Really appreciate the opportunity to be on with you and with your listeners. Jeff Carver of the National Christian foundation is been with us today. More information about ways you can be more generous with the resources God's entrusted to you visit moneywise love the mortgage/NCF moneywise live.org/NCF and will be right back with your calls at 800-525-7000 800-525-7000. This is moneywise the financial wealth you leave behind could be the best thing that ever happened to your loved ones or the worst in splitting hairs, giving your money and things to your children without ruining their lives.

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Anything natural. Of course, 800-525-7000 Rob West, your host and not just a little technical wrinkles here today are you there Mr. West. I am glad to be with you but we won't get into it but it really is vital Rob that you pay your phone bill. I just can believe that in my being the person you are in the ministry that you represent serve. But anyway, I guess were kind of even though it's not yet. December we like it or not we are into the Christmas season this far is giving and buying is concerned and hopefully budgeting anything you want to say about that before we dive in and take some calls. What I would do. Now it is time to really be thinking about how you can make this special keep Christ at the center and not finish the season would the way to do that and not get caught up in the trappings of competing with somebody else were the biggest and the best gift.

Let's focus on things that are meaningful and let's do it in a budget conscience way so we can bless those that we love, but more importantly, share the love of Christ. Everywhere we turn and if we do that with intentionality will start a new year with without bills to follow that.

Okay, one more time.

Here's the phone number you'd like to speak with Rob West today about anything financial that you might be wondering about thinking about considering give us a call 800-525-7000.

We begin by going up north just a little bit from where were located at Green Bay, Wisconsin hi Penny nice to have you there and how can we help you about planning and Mike and I should've done it years ago and last year for Christmas my mom gave me the newly arming gold case which has estate planning stuff in and then my man he is relative is in the nursing mom and she had a company to all of their estate planning. I looked on your website for years, planning and tracking PLA living well that kind of thing and the regular well and at this point I'm just curious what your thoughts – it seemed like it you need to go at the company and have them do it on his right hand everything over and I want to be cost effective with you. Yes, well, I'm so glad you're out of the question because the things Penny that you're referring to are really important. We need a will, because that's going to allow your wishes to be spelled out with regard to the things that God has entrusted to you with regard to a living will. That's gonna be really important because that's going to tell others what your personal choices are about end-of-life medical treatment health care directive. Same thing. Not necessarily a trust. Things are simple and we don't have any lifelong dependents figured out looking for an anonymous hand in place prior to your death in a simple will, plus some of these other things, the health care directive.

The power of attorney those are going to really cover it now as to who should do that. I always prefer having an estate planning attorney. It's going to vary by state how those documents are drafted. What needs to be in certainly wouldn't want to cut a corner and have something not be effective for you when you need it because it wasn't done properly and so yes there are a number line at a turnkey solution can be very cost-effective. I just always prefer you to sit across the table from somebody who has the knowledge and expertise. You can ask the right questions and then get the documents done in a cost-effective way, but have them done appropriately and then I would say, in addition to that in each revisiting them every couple of years or when your life situations change. So where you go for that.

Well I connect with a certified kingdom advisor there in Green Bay.

You go to our website by wise live.org type in your ZIP Code find if you can ask for godly estate planning attorney. You can certainly compare the cost with that professional for the items you're talking about POA will, living wills to an online solution. I'd rather you go to look professional and estate planning attorney who has that competent leasing Penny is that the hell does that make sense yeah yeah and then that night was kind of money and their client and my my in-laws are kind of in the same situation there in their late 70s and may not have a well yet either and so that would be in that situation it would be a best idea to find an attorney and in the local area. Yes ma'am that would be my recommendation because that's again to make sure everything done appropriately, given the laws of the state in which they live and make sure that everything is thought through and perhaps a question or two that will be asked by that estate planning attorney might prompt additional thinking or considerations that you haven't thought of that can be reflected in those documents as well.

So I would offer the same advice for those functions well Penny, thank you very much God bless you. Let's go to see how Chicago Doris having a little technical phone issue here you are you with us today.

Okay, great, great, and what you question for Rob. Thank you for taking my call nine private client at my bank called me to tell me that I had money and not pick and my savings account and we made an appointment.

I made an appointment to see him weeks ago and when I called to CPU not be available. Tell me that he tried the way you know thing that let me take that back count and and I really do not need another them back count is I need you here. There is no reason to money is money that is earmarked. I would be right there. Save $50,000 to invest that money is there and listening to investing is more than just returns. It's an expression of who you are and what you value is the way you invest your money like your identity as a Christian at eventide. We design investments for performance and a better world so you can invest with the confidence to reach your financial goals while remaining true to your Christian values and commitments. We call this investing that makes the world rejoice more is available. Best eventide.com invest eventide.com Christian healthcare ministries enables believers to meet their healthcare costs affordably, biblically and compassionately. It's not insurance but a voluntary cost-sharing ministry based on the biblical example of Christians sharing each other's needs and members are defined under the law for not having health Christian healthcare ministries might be your health cost solution call 800-791-6225 or visit CH ministries.org hi my name is Ryan and I'm a communications major at the movie Bible the radio week is found in Micah 5. Though you are small among the towns of Judah, out of you will come for me, one of Israel's origins from old ancient time. That's Micah 523 the Moody radio week.

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Financial Rob West calls today 800-525-7000 you know it's a little maybe it's a refreshing. I don't know to to joke a little bit about 2020 Rob were already, I think for 2021, and how much worse could it get but at the same time we know that God is totally in control and nothing takes him by surprise that he loves us that his promise to meet our needs and that he's there. Whether it's the good times the bad times, the confusing times and none of this confuses him and I think we can almost relax and have peace and that, don't you think will generally ever there was ever something to hold onto it from God. But here's the thing I think we need to add the Scripture encourages us to do constantly be renewing our minds because we can be swept up in bad thinking by getting to fixated on the things of this world are uncertain things that are changing. Instead, we need to focus back on the Lord our provider and sustainer, and as you said very appropriately. Nothing caught him by surprise.

In the midst of this, so I think we need to return to God's word and turn down the noise of this world and turn up God's voice in our lives exactly our faith in Christ has nothing to do with outside circumstances. Easier said than done, but the absent troops.

Here's a phone number again 800-525-7000 two court Elaine Idaho hi Lori, what's on your mind. Great, thank you very good about modular home we killed one year and have an opportunity to sell another one that I will hold off in January for because the different administration help me on that enlightening on what you think the Hackberry will be one over the other. Yeah, great question, Lori, and obviously these are properties that are investment properties not your personal dwelling loss to their particular, is that correct. Very good. Yeah they to you. We just don't know what the future of the tax law will look like. Certainly as we change from one administration to another.

That's what happened there could be changes on the horizon. Although I think given the way the Congress is looking the part. We may not see a lot of changes. Bottom line is we just don't know whether it's next year or the following what we do know though is that the capital gains taxes are very low right now and so it is a long-term capital gain. I think perhaps it's a great opportunity for you to walk in the tax burden that you at least know would be the case today as opposed to an unknown down the road so me and you had the opportunity I probably go ahead and liquidate the property now as opposed to waiting just given some of the uncertainties in the fact that in the low low tax environment probably only one direction they're going to have and that's up, whether that's next year or further down the road house at some right that helped a lot. Thanks very much. Next it's Veronica, Fort Lauderdale, Florida, and want your comment or question for Bob hello, thank you for taking my call.

My question is I'm looking to purchase a car because I understand that because of the pandemic. It's been a rough year in the car industry and become pretty good specially on preowned cars so I did look at a car.

The dealer said he pulled my credit. He claimed I had good credit and offered me for on a used car. So after the fact. I did more reading and I read where people pulling multiple on my credit for a car loan to actually affect my rating and make my banding for a good interest rate works so I was about that and I wanted to know some you know this. Could you shed some light on it in layman's terms. I can understand what is really going on, I'd be happy to Veronica. You're a great question that needs to be considered as you think about seeking credit for any purpose, whether that's for car mortgage or something else.

Here's a way that works 32 types of credit pulled there's one that you initiate yourself. It has no impact on your door and there's one initiated by the lender for the purpose of determining whether to extend you credit once called soft coal that's the one you initiate the other is artful. The heart pulled the factor into your credit score as your seeking additional credit. It does slightly raise your risk level in terms of the way the algorithms are built because you're out there looking for new credit.

Typically heart pulled might pull your score down temporarily. 20 or 30 points. Here's the thing you need to know though about shopping for that car. Any heart, pulled by a lender within a two-week period for the same purpose, meaning your seeking car loan for the purchase of the car in your your exploring multiple winters during a two-week window. All of those polls are to be treated as what and so that will only impact your score. One time, which gives you the freedom to go out and shop now when you get beyond the two weeks if another heart pulls initiated that could bring your score down slightly more, but just keep in mind is going to keep it in that two-week window any potential decline of your credit score has already been done and so you will then have the freedom to go out and find the very best rate possible. So I have to do it the week window so that it be considered like one. All that's exactly right. Because when you get beyond that, if another lender pulled your credit and for the same type of glow it's going to impact you again now again 20 or 30 points is not major last year right there on the bubble where you have to get above a certain number to qualify for particular interest rate and that second inquiry, or that second part pull pulled you down below that you know that could have an impact on your credit scores so that's why be best for you to get Veronica. Glad you called in today and we hope that helps you. Thanks so much and Rob as far as checking your credit scores.

Some people do it a lot. Some people actually do it when they think about it. Is there any any good number. Any normal number.

Any any recommend in the recommended number for the average family really changed because of the accessibility to your credit score. There are so many people that are now making available at no cost credit scores. Most of your credit card companies. If you have a credit card and by the way, if you do make sure you if you can't cut it up.

But if you do any of them are making scores available monthly with a monthly update at no cost nerve wallet. Some of the other lenders out there credit karma websites offer free scores so I monthly just because that might be one of the first places you'll see were fraudulent activity will show up meaning somebody's open an account in your name without your permission fraudulently. It will have an impact_it might alert you to something going on that you can then follow up on the carpet so I would say you have access to a preschool sounds good to me and sounds good ringing phone lines. That means we have someone to say hello to. After all, it is a calling program where moneywise is from last time Steve Moore find us at 800-5257 many people are experiencing financial challenges such as credit card debt downsizing that in jobs, savings, more than half of all divorces are the result of financial pressures at home in your money counts biblical financial expert Howard shows that the Bible is a veritable managing your finances will discover the profound relationship with God, your money counts as available when you click the start button moneywise will I learn I'm here to help you understand how urgent it is a sugar for every opportunity to the eyes of a layman, you know, without understanding Bible prophecy it's impossible to understand what's going on today with the prophecies avoid sensorimotor removal of our current circumstances are now being fulfilled before very eyes.

It seems that America would never give up sovereignty and allegiance to its present joint one world government led by the antichrist but here we are in absolute turmoil over nations leadership as every other country. Who would've ever thought of the fulfillment of Bible prophecy would become our most powerful tool for leading people to Jesus but that's where we are today is the accuracy of Bible prophecy regarding the birth wife, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and the times we now find ourselves living in confirm the truth of the Bible to every unbeliever who is generally seeking. There is nothing more exciting than knowing God is using you to move people closer to him. Join is not America is only welcome our dignified invaders from Central High School and Jefferson high school.

All right, let's get started.

Central gives your opening argument on religious expression at school.

The founding fathers of our country would roll over in their graves if they knew prayer in Bible clubs were meeting at school is no place for were here to educate not indoctrinate and Jefferson your opening statement.

Please religion is like ice cream as a lots of choices, and we should sample as many choices as we can say one religion is better than another religious expression at school should be encouraged, getting tired of all the talking. How can you debate the important issues without any morals or values you have to have truth. Otherwise, the answers to critical issues.

Jesus said the truth will set you free in the Lord Jesus is many people adopt an attitude toward marriage and finances. Then it will all work out somehow. But sadly, it often doesn't financial woes can devastate a marriage but there is a better way. God's way, money and marriage God's way by Howard Tate will help you discover God's approach to growing your finances strengthening your relationship with your mate and cultivating godly joy, money, and marriage God's way is available when you moneywise.org tried-and-true envelope budgeting system is so far more high-tech digital best version of this that we've ever seen or designed. It's a biblical approach to saving, spending, record-keeping, and it automatically connects to all of your bank accounts.

It includes links to our podcasts. Other biblical resources and allows you to join others in the moneywise at community so check it out today.moneywise.org app.moneywise.org and you'll also find it in your Apple. Your Apple App Store or Google play let's go back to our phones, Canton, Georgia hello Renée, welcome to the program. What's on your mind.

Currently looking for a job working one day a week in the medical field and data coded our office pretty much quiet and need for color and I can't take on any payment. Obviously still I thinking of taking on the 401(k) just purchased the car have it done and over with and I want to know what your thoughts on me that your current car situation. Renée, by way of I'm really sorry to hear about your situation and grateful for your work in the healthcare field. I know this is been an incredibly difficult year for so many, but most importantly for those in certain sectors of the economy of the industry.

Certainly healthcare. One of those in so many ways so will just pray that we get past this quickly.certainly don't forget God is your provider. Let's keep focused on his promise is this difficult season.

What is it you have a car right now looking places or you without currently. I did have a car that's on its last legs, okay and are you having to put a lot of money in it Renée to keep it running. Yeah, okay, you put in over the last 12 months 15 or $1600 okay and you have reason to believe that will continue. Or could you be past the worst of it.

You might to get a bit more time out of the car, given the repairs that you done over the last year and now because right now it a lot like the transmission transmission windows don't work that he is fine now so it a lot several things at once. Right now yeah 75,000 miles on it so I guess absolutely I like you can take a look to the end of its useful life. Like, perhaps beyond that, at this point so I certainly understand. Well, here's the bottom line. You need transportation if you're going to be able to work and so I understand that 401(k) is typically one of my last resort option certainly would come before putting it on a credit card or something like that. But keep in mind it's expensive money that you're going to access, whether that involves a penalty, the taxes that will be due not to mention that this money will no longer be available for you to grow with future yeah I realize that this is an unusual season and you gotta have some reliable transportation. So I think the key will be if you are going to take a withdrawal. Just understand on the front and the applications that was a penalty. Any taxes due and set money aside and then spend as little as possible for reliable car.

Now you may want to look around or ask at your church. There may be somebody who's willing to help, especially in a season like this, understanding you're in the healthcare field and what you can going through perhaps a somebody in the churches would be willing to bless you with a good car at a reduced price start there. Next would be auto trader and Carmax, but I think the key is to keep it down as low as you can pulling out as little as possible and obviously moving on toward some reliable transportation.

Lastly, anything you could get on a private sale. If you were to sell this car. I realize you would get much but anything that you could get could be put toward that new purchase, but I would start at your local church. I asked the Lord to intervene here and provide something for you, even miraculously, that will see what God's people do make Renée, we know you're in Canton, Georgia, and you may or may not be aware of the fact that I'm sitting in Gainesville Georgia today and Rob is sitting in Atlanta Georgia today between the two of us.

We have a lot of friends and they are generous folks and you never know what's you know it's the giving time of year so I will ask all of our listeners to pray about your situation and perhaps someone is sitting on a car they don't need. Perhaps someone is feeling extra generous this time of year and they'd like to contact you and bless you in some way if they will contact you said to moneywise will lie will figure out a way to contact you and see if maybe something like that would work out or you can call back the number that you called today. Maybe that will be best calling back the number you called to get on the program today and we can work it that way. But nonetheless, as Rob said, God has a plan for you. We would rather you not pull from your 401(k) but to give that some prayerful consideration. Let's see what God does and please bless us by letting us know how he works this out for you were glad you called Us Miami, Florida hello Norma, what's on your mind today you will you the first thing I would look at is any minimum balance required in the account prior to investing. You want to meet that threshold. First thing, keep in mind, you've got a high deductible health plan is what qualifies you for the ages and the pert first place.

So, perhaps, even though you haven't used it.

Up to this point are a lot of that because you haven't had a lot of medical bills. What you want to make sure that if you had something unexpected.

A medical emergency that were to come up that you have enough liquid funds in your HSA that you don't have to sell any investments because anything you invest.

We want a 5 to 10 year time horizon. With that said, Norma, one of the reasons I love the HSA is for the reason you're describing that you can build up money, especially if you're healthy, maxing out your contributions every year.

If you're not using it specially when you get out of the ages where you have small children that have a tendency to make lots of the office visits on a frequent basis.

You can put that money to work and it can be a great additional asset for your retirement. So I would just say make sure you've accommodated for the high deductible for medical emergency.

But beyond that, if you have reason to believe it's money you could just let go until the you're not going to need it then absolutely I would look at your investment options provided by your plan administrator in your HSA input that Norma thank you that you got through today.

Let's try to squeeze Kareem in calling from Orlando just a couple of minutes and that what you question for Rob West, my car and I did inquire and get Mike info yet but can't only financing because you can take more than doubled. I bought it 10 years ago and it worked double more than doubled and what it is now an account, but what it also like to know what. Woke up about.

First of all I would say delighted to hear so much about you that's a great thing, but I wouldn't see that as an asset to tap into the member far as I'm concerned. The goal for that hold you to be completely out of debt for that home to continue to rise in value for you to owe nothing on it. The only way for you to do that would be to continue to pay it down just as quickly as you can and go do that religiously, even perhaps adding more to that payment as you're able to long as your other more pressing priorities are met. The only reason why you want to refinance. As this is an incredibly low interest rate environment that historically low not seen these rates in years and probably go in the future will see them again for a long time so if you can save at least a percentage point on the refinance you plan to stay in the home for 5 to 7 years and you don't extend the term, meaning you had a 30 year mortgage and you got 25 years left.

Don't go back to a new 30 year mortgage go 25 or even 20 years, but I wouldn't be pulling money out as some have suggested to you through it best because remember, the goal is to get that paid off and be completely out of stream. We hope that helps you. We wish you the very best and with that were going to have to bid you would do the same thing here. Rob West always a pleasure Sir will come back tomorrow when do it all over again. Okay, I'll look forward to the next and again thank you for tuning in. If you enjoy this program would you do us a big favor. Let a friend know it really helps us to expand our reach and our ministry when others know who we are. Thank you also for your generous donations that help us well. Keep the bills paid. If you will. You can find out more about who we are and you can make a generous donation. A donation of any size when you visit moneywise.O RG. Finally, my thanks to Amy Aaron and Jim for their technical expert moneywise.

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