Do the Hollywood Superheroes Point to Jesus?

The following is a prerecorded program friends. There is major news that the Supreme Court is poised to overturn Roe V Wade will be commenting on that in detail on tomorrow's broadcast running no special interview with leading Christian apologist Dr. Frank Turk's time for the light a fire with your host biblical scholar and cultural commentator Dr. Michael Brown your voice for more sanity and spiritual clarity called 866-34-TRUTH to get on the line of fire and now is your host Dr. Michael Brown is the line of fire. God vastly that I had the joy of reading an amazing new book coming out today literally hot off the press, written by my friend and colleague, one of our nation's top Christian apologist Frank Turk and his son Zach curriculum. I'm holding the book in my hands Hollywood heroes how your favorite movies reveal got a Frank welcome back to modify, thanks for joining us today. Dr. Michael Brown. It's always wonderful being with you.

Thanks you have me on. You might my joy to do it all right. I got I got so many questions about this, but first, how how did you stumble on this idea and how did you determine to do it together with your son Zach while my son Zach although he's in the Air Force is a major in the Air Force right now. He went to Southern Evangelical seminary while he was in the Air Force got his own degree in philosophy, a Masters in philosophy and he's always been a movie buff Mikey's love movies from the time he was a very small child and in fact he's a reader to sell.

He really got an inch into Star Wars and read many of the books from the Star Wars Star Wars alternative universe and then he got into the Harry Potter books.

I know some Christians have some consternation with Harry Potter. May we can talk about that but he really loved reading and watching these movies and so after he went to the seminary. I said I Zach you know this movie so well maybe write a book because there's so many parallels between these stories and the greatest story ever told. So we go to Capt. America, Ironman, Harry Potter, Star Wars, Lord of the rings Batman and wonder woman and point out how so many of these characters not only parallel Jesus, but they give biblical life lessons okay so immediately.

Some listener to think what will you tell you that you send people to put these movies on the Hollywood that they're intentionally planting subtle messages about Jesus or is there something unintentional or maybe even unconscious happening. It's both okay Lord of the rings and Harry Potter are distinctively Christian stories what Harry Potter will get into it. All right, all right, but other.

The others aren't necessarily Christian. In fact, I think. I think there unknowingly these in Mike because the greatest story ever told resonates with people. We all want to be taken from this world and taken to a place of promise taken to a place where there is no pain and suffering.

So when we see a story like that it enchants us Mike can't help but put in stories of sacrifice.

Stories of being rescued from evil because that's the way the real world really is that we we are in this evil place and we want to be taken from its obese stories resonate. Whether the moviemakers know they're there related to the greatest story ever told or not is irrelevant. They know that it's a great story. If they tell it hard so I'm I'm a little bit older than you, but we come from roughly the same generation were both baby boomers and some armor growing up watching Superman on black and white TV in, and then after that you had Batman and Robin, but it seems now to see how the comic books for years but one movie after another movie after another, and they they tend to be doing well. You listen the Spider-Man series or another dark movie about Batman whatever it is it is there an increased interest or fascination with these superheroes these days it seems to be Mike that people are really into this now. In fact Mike if you look at the top 25 greatest grossing movies of all time, 12 out of the top 25 are the superhero type movies that we that we evaluate in Hollywood heroes and 23 out of the top 25 have fantasy elements in them. In other words, they deal in the supernatural or paranormal only chill of the top 25 movies in the Titanic and Syria seven which has a lot of special effects and it obviously are not fantasy movies and it just tells me. The people want to be taken out of this world into a place of bliss and that's with these fantasy movies give them so even the idea of a superhero that that somebody has some special qualities or special energies or specially trained or something at birth. There given that you're saying that that that's also pointing to something within us that that we want to superhero that were looking for somebody to come and deliver as we are looking for a deliverer world looking for a Messiah.

You know this better than I do. You're the world expert on on the Jewish Messiah. Even the Jews are still looking for them right so I meant take them from misplaced. So yes, everybody wants to be rescued and that's that's why the greatest story ever told resonates even when it's retold and retold and retold right now Frank you are on college campuses as much as anybody and I know speak about atheism speaking about the reliability of Scripture etc. to your interacting with younger generation on a regular basis but a Christian is my sitting on I never really grew up in a movie culture.

I don't watch a lot of movies but other people do and you will do so is is this a bridge by which we can share the gospel, not so much what he saw Harry Potter. I guess you're interested in Jesus, but are there other more discrete ways that we can we can cross over this bridge. Yes I think will actually let's take Harry Potter for example a lot of people miss this but you know that Harry Potter has for big things in common with Jesus. Number one is prophesied to be the Savior of that world before he's born.

Secondly, he has to live a moral life in order to accomplish saving that world.

Thirdly, he has to die in order to accomplish it.

And fourthly, he rises from the dead. In order to defeat the evil Baltimore who is the state figure and he that inspires faith and his followers in order to do that anyone could be more of a parallel to the Christian story than those four things. And if you if you know somebody like Harry Potter you can point this out. Got it right.

So friends, the new book really hot off the press room you get your books look forward Hollywood heroes by Frank and Zach to write to you are EK and Bello. If you've never read Frank Turek book is retreat. Now Frank and Zach it's it's a double treat get the drawing of the generations here.

What would you say was Zach's unique contribution to bring to this book together with you what he knows the movies inside and out. Mike talks to the nose and way better than I do so he took the first stab at writing all the chapters and I would come in behind him, and add a little bit more of the connection to the biblical story even though he had much about himself so he knows it inside and out. In fact, if you are right now working. He works in the Intel world in the military you know you was going on in Russia right now he's he's working 13, 14 hour days and if he if you are doing that right now and beyond with us right now, but he can't. He's he's got other obligations got it yet but won't won't won't. Maybe your future.

Get that in my endorsement, I referred to as the Batman and Robin of Holly FedEx to see you journey together is is awesome and listen for all of you that are listening and watching and and you you you have such a distaste for Harry Potter and you say it's broad and wizardry is brought in darkest. That's not even the issue. The issue is what are lessons that can be taken from it in our interaction with the society and Frank you're not saying that every pastor every Sunday morning needs to weave in the middle of movie illustration with it, but the world we live in. People want studies, but hundreds of millions of dollars coming in on a regular basis. They're talking about the stuff they're waiting for the newest release, so if there in this world and we can draw on something they're looking for morning for hoping for somebody beyond someone. It's like dreamlike.

Some of that doesn't disappoint some of that always comes through. And right and you know right before the really bad moment they're gonna rescue the and and good is ultimately the triumph over evil one at point them in the ultimate right direction. That's right that's right is one thing about the Harry Potter series with regard to the wizardry and all that I noticed I defer to parents parents if you want your kids watching or reading something that that's your call, but I will say this I noticed that many Christian parents have been inconsistent.

Mike because Lord of the rings. Gandalf is a wizard right and yet people are saying Lord of the rings is fine. Look at the Chronicles of Narnia. It has the same kind of thing in it.

Why are we okay with those but not okay with Harry Potter and the kind of wizardry and Harry Potter doesn't exist in the real world. JK Rowling doesn't think that this kind of magic actually exist. She just said I put magic in their because it's it enchants the children's minds so they can have power over something, but magic is in the center of the story of human nature is the center of the story. According to Rowling and she says to Bible verses epitomize the entire series, number one, they both appear in the movies Bible verses. Of course the books as well number one. The last enemy destroyed his death, which is from first Corinthians 15 and the other Bible verse that appears in the movie that epitomizes it is where your treasure is, that's where your heart will be also got it all right note it in my Jewish apologetics Frank talk a lot about redemptive analogies borrowing a phrase from missionary Don Richardson saying that in different cultures.

Goddess implanted certain truths and then at a certain point in time. Missionary can say look this is in your culture. This is in religion so you find the most in Judaism because it's it's it's the people of the Messiah and in the Bible. The Old Testament is being used in Judaism, day and night, so it's very natural to find his redemptive analogies. So within Judaism there is the concept of the atoning power of the death of the righteous. That's been incredible bridge for me to get to the cross, because otherwise the cross is totally foreign. This external Christian thing and therefore you won't even think of it, especially religious to talk about your 20 power the death of the righteous. The light goes on, that that they can register with and that will that's what were talking about with them. Besides that human sacrifice to some pagan thing so the world in which we live now. These ideas are pervasive and as we go through the show they were you highlight a few. Again, this just to give you a taste of what's in the book Hollywood heroes, but with viscous start here with Capt. America. Why is Capt. America. Somehow in an image or a prototype of things that have to do with Jesus.

Think about Capt. America. He always does the right thing. You never have to worry about Capt. America doing the wrong thing.

Unlike his cohort of Tony Stark Tony Stark us to go to a lot of development before he becomes a hero.

Whereas Capt. America is a hero immediately.

No Capt. America isn't perfect like Jesus but he does exhibit morality, unlike at at to a level unlike other superheroes and also what's Capt. America willing to do. He's willing to jump on a grenade for you right he's willing to sacrifice himself to save you.

That's what Jesus does note, there was the old Hollywood code of ethics where you couldn't show like producing a movie and and if there was a bad guy and a good guy.

The bad guy had to get caught and things like that right. Well, we don't have that code re-for a long time so you never know with the movie the bad guy might be the hero really evil figure and and and the police and in the ones try to catch him. They're the ones that are foiled all the time but you say, with a Capt. America.

He's going to do what's right. And if you have this kind of feel-good aspect to our friends, we come back again to continue this conversation with Frank Turek again. The new book hot off the press today Hollywood heroes by Frank and Zach subtitle how your favorite people are so why lets you walk in session now about the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown on the line of fire is Dr. Michael Brown vested was of of ever read Hollywood heroes and it looks at a number of of the Hollywood megastores today, although I don't mean Tom Cruise or some of that book, but rather the iron bands in the Capt. America is in the Harry Potter's what they have to do with the gospel.

Let me step back for a moment and asked this Frank, how many years have you been speaking on college campuses old. About 20 by now you have started out 20 years ago I along with Dr. Norman Geisler started doing it with him and then ever since about 2004, almost 20 of them going to college campuses to present. I don't have enough faith to be an atheist and then you do always do when you're able to live Q&A so you are you getting feedback you're interacting has the climate change on college campuses towards the general view of God or Christianity of the Bible all well totally. Yeah it's used to be able even before my time.

You used to be able to say will.

The Bible says and people would listen now. As you know Mike if you say the Bible says they're going to say when you're a bigot right your homophobe, your other to something wrong with you. How can you even believe that. And I've noticed that I'd say a majority of the questions I get on college campuses.

Mike have to do with morality.

Morality is the issue right because if there is a God. People can't do whatever they want to do and they want to do whatever they want to do this is why a way I always ask people on college campuses, particularly atheists or nonbelievers. I asked them if Christianity were true, would you become a Christian.

I've had atheist stand of the microphone in front of hundreds of people and say no. I think now how is that reasonable has that rational. It's not not reasonable is not rational.

The problem is and in the head.

The problems in the heart.

They don't want to be true. They don't want there to be a God or not on a truth class there on a happiness quest and they think that if if God exists, God is going to interfere with her happiness.

So I always asked them if it were true. When you become a Christian and a lot of times I'll get an honest answer now with people like that. I think all you can do for them is pray for them, plant seeds, because they don't have an intellectual problem. They have a moral or volitional problem. Yeah. So the thing that so interesting and I raise it so as to tie back in with Hollywood heroes. I was talking to a friend of mine, ultra-Orthodox rabbi we been in steady dialogue and debate for roughly 20 years back and forth. Probably several thousand pages of republished all of our emails and interaction. Anyone once said to me he said that if you said the word Christianity to my father, he would vomit and I asked him in your community where you live ultra-Orthodox Jews in Lakewood, New Jersey. I said do they believe there's a direct connection between Christianity and the Holocaust to settle yes up so so when they hear this word, they're hearing something very different, where something beautiful and wonderful story of God's love and mercy expressed through the cross and their hearing something very very different. Through the filter of their own experience where it was a false Christianity were corrupt Christianity in the same way now when we talk to a lot of people about Jesus.

They immediately hear certain thing they immediately have certain conceptions and end the Jesus we are talking about is not the Jesus that their hearing so if we use the Hollywood heroes approach. If we start to talk to them using the analogy of what what you appreciate about Capt. America or just say this so from there you can now tell them who the real Jesus is, and that Jesus has tremendous appeal doesn't yeah excellent point.

You know what else I like to ask people to like. It's this if someone plays Beethoven poorly, you blame us grant like you don't blame Beethoven right you blame the player well if somebody placed Christ poorly who do you blame you. Don't blame Christ if if if the followers are players of Christ play Christ poorly. That doesn't mean Christ is and still true and beautiful. Christ is still true and beautiful even when the players, the Christians don't play him well. We need to remind people that Christianity is not Christians.

Christianity is Jesus. And so, if you're listening out there right now and you been wronged by a Christian or senior you're upset with the church or whatever it is you need to look past all that because that is not true Christianity, true Christianity is Jesus. Yeah, and Frank, you got the gift of reducing things to really simple bite-size sayings it off if someone says to. There's no absolute truth.

What he said of them. Are you absolutely sure you by the way that insight about Beethoven comes from John Dixon, you know, you know, Johnny wrote a great book called bullies and saints he's from the UK NSF new case from Australia and netbook bullies and saints. He goes through all the church history says here's what the church did right. Here's what it did wrong, but we always need to remember we need to focus on Jesus and not what the poor players of Jesus do so. I'm sure there are many people, when you get past the surface objections of the emotional objections they want Jesus to be real and so so they're not consciously going to watch Capt. America or whoever the superhero is not consciously going there saying oh I wish this was true, or I need to Capt. America in my life but there's something in us that wanted me to look when you're a magic show you really wanted to be like they really did you know that's a God's amazing pull a rabbit out of a hat when using the trick behind his like it was nothing.

People want this to be real. That's what you're speaking to in the book. Yeah, they wanted to be real and it is real.

That's the beauty of it, that there is someone who's going to take us out of this world was going to bring us to the promised land.

Who is going to take us to a place where there is no prying morning, her pain anymore and simply by trusting in what he's done we can get there. I mean, when you look at the superhero movies we cover.

Whether it's Iron Man, Capt. America, Harry Potter is Star Wars any of these Batman. These people in these movies can't make it to the promised land on their own. They need the superheroes to come in and rescue them and we do to we can't make it to the promised land on our own. We need a Messiah to come into the world and take us there, and so all these movies whether the movie writers thought about it or not, are reflecting the greatest story ever told and the greatest story ever told happens to be true. In fact Mike I know you know this, but none of our listeners have heard about this J.R.R. Tolkien, who of course wrote the Lord of the rings series he and CS Lewis were buddies and and and Tolkien said the Lewis.

At one point, Jack. They called him Jack why he was so enthralled with all the stories about dying and rising gods in pagan mythology.

By the way, the stories of dying and rising gods come after Christianity, not before. Why you so enthralled with all that Jack, but you're not enthralled with the same story that is told in the New Testament, and finally Jack realized because Tolkien convince them of it. You're excited about all these myths. But Christianity is the true it really happened. And then Lewis investigated and he said you know what tokens right it didn't really happen in the Lewis became the top apologist of the 20th century, supporting the true myth yeah and so Lewis says when people point out will look at all the pagan counterfeits all the stuff that's out there pieces would you expect this if this is the true one that near the fact that counterfeit money exists points to the existence of of true money. The fact that the Pharaoh's magicians were counterfeit miracles is because they were confronting God's real miracle so Lewis is that you would expect if you didn't find any of the counterfeit myths that would be a surprise at in human nature is doing it and Satan is doing it. So in the same way, the more our society is becoming almost obsessed with these movies and you keep you got the prequel the new got the SQL after the SQL that I got the finale but now going back to part three of the second finale and some as I was making money. But why is it making money. What's it appealing to and it seems to me that as each year goes on. Our generation and the generation growing up in the world is getting more desperate and more hopeless.

You know from culverts and other worn-out to gas prices to whatever to political divides to racial divides the doesn't seem like there is any solution or anyone to fix things. So I love the movies and watch Spider-Man. That's what were doing.

They take you to a place you want to go, and particularly these movies that are superhero movies they're taking you out of this world to a place where victory can ultimately be achieved and and our victory is achieved already by Jesus were just trying to bring more and more people into the kingdom before he comes back exactly so and reading through the book is kind of interesting but when you point out to the qualities about these different people that draw sin. It makes you appreciate the true and the real.

All the more.

In other words, were not we can get so familiar with the gospel story that that we lose sight of the courage we lose sight of the degree of site reuse to the cross we wait we take communion for the rest know the degree of sacrifice that this took the demonic forces that were involved. Did you actually came to the last chapter, you and Zach and wrote the ultimate hero did you feel even fresh inspiration to write that because of what you'd written before yeah and so many of the qualities of the heroes that we've gone through our reflow are reflections of the qualities in Jesus, just not the same level of perfection and will.

And one of the things that in in writing this chapter Michael last chapter, the ultimate hero about Jesus.

I was really struck by how Jesus is a unique character, not only in all of nonfiction. But even in all of fiction, you can't create a character like Jesus and have them be authentic, and here's why think about Jesus per second, Jesus holds what appear to be all almost opposite qualities. Imperfect tension know he's full of truth, but also full of grace is full of holiness but also approachability, he strong. But he's also tender. He's confident but is also humble. These completely mission focused. But he's also loving.

Do you know anybody in your life that can hold all of those qualities imperfect tension. I don't know anyone what comes to mind for a few seconds before the break, but what comes to mind is this that with all of the cinematography and graphics, and creativity of the people making these movies and whatever their motives are and they come up with superheroes doing positive things that all of their fiction.

All of their best photography and graphics. Everything cannot simple story about save us right to light a fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown on the line of fire by calling 86634 true here again is Dr. Michael Brown is fascinated. It's fresh off the press today. We kind this interview so that we could tie them with the release of the book where you get your books. Hollywood heroes by Frank and Zach Turk. This is Frank's son Zach.

Like father like son. So this is a dynamic duo here and in the book. They show us how a lot of the qualities that the masses are drawn to it in the the Hollywood heroes, the bat commands the iron man's the captain America is the wonder woman's that this points to a longing in us for some type of deliverer superior. Of course, all these are fictional mystical but there's one that satisfies this. There is one who lives up to expectations and goes infinitely beyond and cannot only save us from troubled him can transform us from the inside out and and turn us into people that love God were talking about Jesus the Savior.

The one from the spring speaks as the ultimate hero. So Frank sometimes traveling overseas have been over hundred 50 times overseas. She got a lot of flying time.

You may have 2030 hrs. of flying time so I'll write all respite them to look for something to watch something clean that I can watch and a lot of times it's going to be one of these superhero movies and have sex scenes are likable because of profanity.

Even the violence is kind of a superficial thing is not like and of the blood and gore type of stuff so I can watch this and really enjoy it.

Think yeah this they have these qualities are but some of them are then more broken than others.

So how do we get from Ironman to Jesus.

Yeah, that's great. In fact, one of my favorite chapters in the book is Ironman because I just like the character I think that they were brilliant in getting Robert Downey Junior to play Ironman affected director Kevin why my business name all of a sudden far, far from the director wanted Robert Downey Junior from the beginning and originally the production house at nine on and I was get too much baggage and basically he was saying that no Robert Downey Junior is Tony Stark in real. This is the guy you want and they picked him to be in Ironman, which came out 2008 if they hadn't picked him. I don't know if we have all these other Marvel movies because that launched pretty much the whole marble cinematheque. Our whole MCU.

The hold Marvel universe at the time, not think about Tony Stark, Tony Stark is a billionaire playboy a moral arms dealer. He's got everything that most men would want he's got money he's got power. He's got a great girl but Mike is still miserable.

He's he is got no purpose, no identity. He has everything to live with and nothing to live for. Then one of his own weapons detonates because he based company sold B's arms to terrorists and it blows up and it put shrapnel in his chest and he has to have a device put right in the middle of his chest to guard his heart from the encroaching shrapnel if that device isn't there. He is going to die.

Now this for me is a beautiful picture of what I think Mike is the most important Bible verse for this culture other than the gospel itself becomes from Proverbs 423 which says above all else, guard your heart because everything you do flows from it. It doesn't say follow your heart. Our culture says follow your heart.

The Bible says note.

Guard your heart and what Tony Stark does is he does guard is hard to the point where he gets a purpose any day and ultimately becomes a hero. He develops into somebody who's a hero who spoiler alert actually sacrifices himself to save the world. So Tony Stark is more about us.

We can go from a selfish kind of playboy type person to a sanctified hero. If we guard our hearts if we renew our minds. Where is somebody like Steve Rogers is already at the ultimate moral level.

He doesn't have much character development, but Tony Stark does.

So I think the lesson from Ironman is that you really need to guard your heart if you don't guard your heart to wind up lost and alone and you're going to be full of anxiety like Tony Stark was for. Until he found the fact that he had a purpose and he needed to guard his heart and obviously I saw some of those some of those movies I don't remember whose one or two whatever you want while traveling and obviously Tony Stark's is that that broken man, but I never thought of making an application like that. Never. It never dawned on me hey let's go from your people watch it. People talking use analogies all the time we talk to people right.

That's right, you constantly withdraw from real-life situations we develop from art from it. Whatever where we could do is certainly growing up before I knew the Lord was rock music and then after I got saved. Looking back at it, you saw while some of these songs are some their people were pretty high on drugs with. I wrote them. To this day I don't know what they were talking about and some had sexual images. I didn't know because I was too young to know, but others like while your lot you're looking for something you're telling us here. You need God.

You're telling us your longing for something more.

And people are singing the songs along really liking the songs and don't even know why they like them so much.] Right. But maybe they're looking in the mirror more than you realize.

Want to go back to question about Harry Potter than we still got we got to cover everything but Batman wonder woman story is what will do what we can and we can eat in each case, we give you little taste. What's in the book Hollywood euros by Frank and Zach Turk but with Harry Potter and some of these related movies. It seems that there is also a hunger for the supernatural and the Bible is a very supernatural book. The stories of the Bible to move in the spirit. To this day what God does in the lives of his people is very other very supernatural can't all be rationally explained to think that's part of the popularity of of the Savior Harry Potter to have this power to know there's more than what you can just physically see and touch yes that's why I said earlier the 23 out of the top 25 movies of all time. All have the supernatural or paranormal, and they're not materialistic atheistic movies right there.

People know there's more to life than molecules in motion and that's why these movies appeal to them because they know that there's there's more to this and yet they want to be even taken further out of it to a place of further bliss. I love what CS Lewis said about this. We quote him several times and Hollywood heroes. We have this desire for another world.

Here's the way Lewis put it, Mikey said it we find ourselves with a desire that nothing in this world can satisfy most probable explanation is that we were made for another world. We are made for another world you have those little glimpses of heaven that happened to you on occasion for me sometimes. First first real whiff of both of freshly cut grass in the spring or flowers that pop out. We have a moment with your wife for a moment with your kids.

You see a beautiful scene somewhere and you just taken to somewhere else for a brief second and you go there something beyond this world or something transcendent. You can even come through music right you get this sense of transcendence that is a glimpse of heaven. That's what CS Lewis called a glimpse of heaven.

And we have a desire for that world. And if we have this desire that nothing in this world of the content that can come there's nothing in this world that can satisfy it in the most probable explanation is that we were made for another world yet and obviously work. We both do debates and in live Q&A and stuff so ill in my mind I'm hearing the atheist saying don't you guys get it that's what you make Apple. These fantasies your Jesus is no more real than these characters in the movie that the reality is, though from the historical evidence for the resurrection of Jesus to the fact that know he really changes what he really does raise on before I knew him I was a heroin shooting a list using 16-year-old hippie rebel and then I wasn't looking for God, I didn't believe in Jesus, God entered my life and transform me and he's been with me over 50 years now so that's the difference the world is creating these things because it's looking at longing and wanting were saying. Here's the reality, and then appoint you may just struck me.

Could you imagine a movie that's like best-selling and people on a run to see which the N conclusion is there is no God, there is no afterlife.

There is nothing more than what you can physically touch and see our brains are just neurons firing. Everything is material. Could you imagine people flocking to see that yellow could you imagine let's take and gain the avenger series Tony Stark gets to Panos at the last minute he goes to follow my heart go back to pepper. I'll just let half the world I get one adult. Oh yeah, that was great know that when Tony Stark gets the infinity stones and he snaps his fingers to kill Panos he's actually signed his own death warrant. He dies just a couple minutes later, but everyone is teared up because they go love this guy need to sacrifice himself to save the world. How noble, how wonderful is that as you know Mike in the book Hollywood heroes. We start with the real world. I sacrifice Michael Montessori literally dove on a grenade to save his two fellow Navy SEALs in Ramada Iraq on September 29, 2006 I mean he stacker he knew he was going to die by doing it but it was the only way he could save his body so we did it not everybody looks at that whether an atheist or Christian or anywhere in between ago. Now that's beautiful. And Jesus said before he went to the cross. There's no greater love than to die for your friends. Jesus did then that's that that's what all these Hollywood heroes do as well. Why because that's the way reality really is that it could you imagine that if if one of them fails at the end gets killed at the end and there is no SQL assented people be depressed, be angry at the moviemakers as they want some kind of hope or say okay look the movie hope is no real hope.

It's just it's all manufactured. It's all set oak and mirrors.

It's all with the writer put on a page with here's the real hope and here's the deal. The biggest issues you have are not the issues outside of you, but the issues inside of you and when you go to sleep at night all alone. God knows what's happening in your heart and Jesus has the answer to it. I mean, where really the more you talk about the fantasy and pull it back into reality, the more glorious the reality becomes yet there's only two things you can have in life, you need to have despair you can have hope. And it's interesting Mike. The latest Batman movie. We have a whole chapter on Batman but the latest Batman movie that just came out a month or two at the end of the movie basically says vengeance isn't the answer.

He said people need hope they need to know that there's someone out there for them with the latest Batman movie says and that's true there is someone out there for a Suez, it will actually came to earth put human flesh over his deity and died for us so that his infinite justice could be satisfied because we can't make it on our own were in just so God takes the punishment on himself to save us, and so many of the superhero movie say the same thing that superheroes died to save people that friends the book Hollywood heroes and by the way that that opening chapters. This gripping and and it's a real-life one which makes it all the more gripping and then we and the book. I can sector and the book with you yourself will miss my hands. My advance copy of really hot off the press today. Hollywood heroes how your favorite God come back home and install right here in the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown on the line of fire by calling 86634 true, there again is Dr. Michael Brown out out today by Frank and Zachary.

Hollywood heroes opening up how the favorite Hollywood heroes actually reveal something about God with intentionally or not. So, again, with each chapter were kind scratching the surface and in giving our listeners distant little feel for what's what's in the book wonder woman what what is wonder woman have to do with Jesus, while actually wonder woman is unique superhero. You know, in the second wonder woman movie. She actually defeats her opponent with truth and love that sound familiar. She doesn't even use any superpowers on Mack's Lord this maxillary character perfect name for a guy who's a prosperity gospel kind of creature now is maximizing his lordship over people and it it it's it's it's a long story but basically she defeats him by convincing him that the truth is important and that he ought to follow the truth, he ought to get back to his son, who is been neglecting and targeted turns out to save the world.

You gotta see the movie to see why, but she does that and I she also doesn't follow her heart.

She says I have to follow the truth she wants to stay with her love interest in the movie, but if she does. The world is going to lose a lot of people so she actually says I can't follow my heart. I have to follow the truth.

Also there in the first movie she's up against Aries, who turns out to be her brother. In Greek mythology, and Aries wants to kill all human beings because they're evil and at one point Mary says to her, these people don't deserve your protection and wonder woman responds. It's not about deserve. It's about what you believe and I believe in love. What is that sound like we don't get what we deserve. Either we believe in Jesus, we get love we get we get acceptance because he has paid the price for us so there's much in wonder woman that actually lines up with the Christian worldview.

Even though the guy who invented wonder woman, a guy in the name of Marston. I don't think had Christianity in mind, but again, Mike. It's it's unavoidable. These people can't help but tell a story of redemption. They can't help but tell a story of sacrifice, they can't help but tell a story of love because that's with the way the real world is and that's what and chances in your previous work stealing from God talk about how atheists have to use divine truth to fight against God is injustice.

There is not goodness it, etc. so the very things that are only extant if there is a God, if there is reality beyond the material world. Most of things that if you have to use to argue against God in the same way where human hearts longing for where human hearts desiring and you want the myths to be true.

Unfortunately, suggest movies surrendering myth that's not a myth its ultimate truth is the story of Jesus and then again transcends everything you can even imagine someone writing the gospel story because it be too outrageous. Now one whatever note could happen. That's the extent of God's love and coming down to reach is okay Star Wars every year from Star Wars to Jesus allow there's a lot of Star Wars. First of all week. We cover the difference and start the Star Wars worldview. The Star Wars view of God from the Christian view of God, you know Lucas's view of God is, pantheistic God, right who see who is the universe he's not. It is not separate from the universe, and of course Christianity believes God has created and sustains the universe, but he's not part of the universe. Nevertheless, that Lucas can't make a story work without morality.

In fact he calls Star Wars a morality play and while he says that the force is morally neutral when people go to watch Star Wars the audience is it morally neutral. The audience already knows who the bad guys and good guys are right because we have the moral law written on our hearts we know that the Jedi are the good in the Sith of the bad and that people need to be redeemed in this movie from Anakin Skywalker who turns out to be Darth Vader. Even one of my favorite characters in all of movies is Han Solo right Han Solo, who has the greatest lines lock your worshipful nest.

Let's just get one thing straight. I take orders from one person may is a big ego and he's a skeptic. He says to Luke Skywalker. Hey kid all this all this. It's just simple tricks and nonsense. There's nothing like just having a good blaster at your side. But what then happens the Han Solo Han Solo gets he's in debt to Jabba the Hutt is bigger than a hut. By the way, and in Java captures him and freezes him in debt in Carbonite and who comes to rename Luke Skywalker comes to reading it not only frees Han. He kills Jabba the Hutt so no pond is free of debt. Right. The Redeemer comes and takes you out of debt and then Han due to the love that that Skywalker showed him is on a track to become a believer in a no later movie.

He basically says look kid, I thought this was all false. But it's all true. I've seen it the force it's all true. How does he come how to become a believer becomes a believer.

As a result of the evidence he sees the evidence he goes you know what it's true we are to do the same thing we ought to take our skepticism and we ought to look at the evidence for Christianity and then we ought to say where to shut we out of all the evidence where it leads and where it leads is true. And of course the other great character that gets redeemed is is Darth Vader. We can talk about that if you want to know, we have limited time here that will friends get the book and find out about the redemption of Darth Vader. And remember, even if you're not a movie person or you just don't like these kinds of movies, millions and millions of other people do, young and old, and their great bridge if if there are lessons in there if there's a hidden message and if there's an overt message in their dues.

It is a bridge to get people to think about the one true God and and and the one true Savior hate last thing if Zach was here, your son Zach who wrote the book with you. What was he say in particular to his generation. All love is very similar to what you said.

In fact, he wrote the section in the book about the idea that many young people and many parents didn't want to get into Harry Potter because they were Christians and he said just about every generation knows something about the Harry Potter story. Even if you don't personally resonate with the story you want to know something about it because it's a bridge to the gospel and as I said earlier were really inconsistent when it comes to Harry Potter right Harry Potter has fake magic in it that even even Jay. You are even out.

JK Rowling believes isn't true. She's just using it as a as a way to win in in in chant the story a little bit, but we don't get all bent out of shape over Gandalf being a wizard of the Lord of the rings have an this kind of stuff in it. Why we get all bent out of shape over Harry Potter. I don't understand then either way.

So if you consider movies you can read the book says many many millions of people there that I can't remember how many times on planes, especially for digital their people reading the Harry Potter book business there. They are so this would give the information to then help you to talk to people as a bridge to get them to the ultimate here. The only real true superhero Jesus himself who saves us from sin and brings us to God. Hey Frank, thanks so much for writing the book was I thanks for joining us on the broadcast and I look forward to talking Zach face-to-face.

One of these days. Hey God bless and check out the website. Hollywood heroes book.com for more. It's Hollywood heroes book.com alright thanks so much Frank Imus. Thanks so friends, let me just take one minute again and see if you know movie person like some of these movies rethink Christians that have nothing to do think that's perfectly fine, because the book will give the information that millions and millions and millions of people including all your family, friends, different ones know about and from there, hey, let's talk about Jesus. Let's let's talk about the one you really need really looking for. All right. Two quick things really important before we go to you get my email updates to get updates each week say okay here are the latest videos that we put out Chris Woodson hear the latest articles that we wrote Chris Woodson, here's a new special resource that we just produced for you to get those right we don't want you to miss them.

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