When Christian Nationalism Merges with Antisemitism

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. When Christian nationalism joins with anti-Semitism is a really toxic mix for the light a fire with your hosts a biblical scholar and cultural commentator Dr. Michael Brown your voice for more personality and spiritual clarity: 866-34-TRUTH to get on the line of fire and now there's your host Dr. Michael Brown Thursday Michael Brown, so please have this time together with you. What about Jerusalem these days thinking about Israel thinking a lot about Jewish politics of tell you why, especially about the latter in a moment, but here's the recall any Jewish related question you have of any kind, 866-34-TRUTH 8663 for 87884. The earlier you call in the on the show, the better chance we have of getting your call so any Jewish related question of any kind, regardless of your own background or perspective. Phone lines are open for you okay we'll talk about some pretty heavy intense things today going to look at some of the comments spoken by Andrew Torbert who is the CEO of gab is the social media network that was raised up to compete with or replace Twitter for those that didn't like twitter's anti-conservative stand anti-Christian stand in certain ways and one of the platform were they would be able to speak freely and get their share the heart to the mind so he's the CEO of that oats outspokenly Christian shirts and commissary concerning what you know that we reached out through the only public information we had to invite Andrew on the broadcast to do an interview with me, I interviewed you get to see this.

I am a Jesus lover. I am a follower of Jesus came to faith.

Over 50 years ago.

He's my all that all my everything. I am a Jew who follows Jesus, but my primary identity this matter forever is that I am in him in Christ. I love America to take strong exception to what you said about quote Christian nationalism and the the Jewish people, and I believe that you been negatively influenced in certain ways, or perhaps reactionary. I gladly talk to off the year.

All right, but having waited some time not having heard them that I posted an article writers quote you accurately shared by different view that today so definitely watching this thing and no Andrew or someone close to him. Then by all means connect us can hurt.

All right, so Debbie talk about that. This has created a bit of a firestorm in the Jewish world I can be background. Why want to talk about some of the Islamic reaction to the assassination attempt on Salman Rushdie for some of you this is out of the blue, like who is this guy, why was he attacked. Those were older, you know there's more context and history said she would talk about that later you first though. On a lighter note, why Jewish apologetics, especially among my my site.

On the one hand, last night I was watching the video by Rabbi Toby Singer and thinking of of putting out of it because we have a series will refute Commissioner Rabbi Stern with Rabbi Singer, is that the most vocal Commissioner Rabbi online and the one who very explicitly goes out of his way to attack Christians anti-Christian police attacked the New Testament started with with a desire to get Jewish people to come back to tradition if they become believers in Jesus, etc. and then shifted to the certain point to much more overt attacks on Christians and going after Gentile Christians:" repent so we put out on 1112 of those videos so far. And right now getting them with Hebrew captions as well, so be it will be used more widely in Israel. So as look at one we got to do a few more and look at one last night thinking some of the statements are just outlandish got gutter about them, but the lighter note for a few years now.

There's a young man on Twitter adherence apologetics and he has this annual apologetics tournament and in the tournament. I really may start with 128 now I think it's up to 256. It's on the pattern of what's called March madness which is the NCAA basketball tournament. So you start with all these different teams and then replay each other and the numbers drop so you you would go. For example, from 128 to 64 to 32. 16 to 8422 so when he first started rural having a lot of fun with it. That's what I got to to meet Pastor Mike Wenger was familiar with his ministry before the he's he's got really prominent on YouTube and a lot of viral videos so we were going back and forth. The data we RT was putting out graphics and like to have us look like boxers that is me and Ravi Zacharias and William William Ln., Craig and somebody else boxes bruise that it's a bit battle in or just having fun with it.

But the good thing was rolled into to meet new apologies that we know that was the whole goal is to is to find out who's out there so you vote is your favorite pause is just is meaningless. Aside from having fun and getting to know each other so somehow I made to the files. Mike Wenger, I reported out videos that I think I just edged him in the minutes of the files were lost to CS Lewis I thought that's legit.

He's the most conflictual Christian apologist the last century that's legit probably influence hundred million people or more so all good with that so and then did they have it two years ago. Your whatever it was I got closer, and one of my close friends back a closer friend of his that I thought you betrayed me. We were having fun in I get pushed out so anyway.

Turns out I'm back in finals yeah it's and as far as I know, I love what it was 256 to start a 128 on the church but wherever the start number was. I think I'm the only one in the whole group whose major emphasis is Jewish outreach.

We do cultural apologetics have debated atheist Muslims, different ones, but the primary emphasis would be best known for the passengers apologetics. So I think I'm the only one in this a great way to help spread the word. I'm up against a classical theist. I don't I don't know classical theist personally. I will be forever interacted or been on one of those broadcasts. He's got a great support network on Twitter even though got more twitter followers. So he's leaving me right now just the finals. Just start your three days. He's literally 66%. The 34 to got a healthy lead already here with the first 724 votes cast that that's double the number that were cast for both of both the priest's preference is heating up.

So if you have a twitter account.

This is the time to get behind your favorite messianic Jewish apologist and all seriousness a great way to help get out the message of the importance of reaching Jewish people with the good news so my Twitter handle is DR Michael L.

Brown right so the true else DR Michael L. Brown.

So go there if you're on Twitter, and share it with your friends on a let's help push Dr. Brent over and it's all in good fun. It's all good foot in fact will lose half that of classical theist Amaya on the radio broadcast to talk more about the work that he is doing, 866-34-TRUTH okay Jerusalem Post has this very interesting article. It was posted by Nicole's and genistein on August 9 Jerusalem Post article about Christian nationalist went viral outpaced war coverage gap CEO Andrew Tora Bora drew negative press across media outlets, but double down on exclusive Christian politics quote the only groups of people that are chosen with those that believe in Jesus Christ and call him king. What is made plain is he is a Christian nationalist movement that he is participating in his Christian nationalism and that movement cannot have Jews in it atheist and it others, and it is exclusively Christian in America is a Christian nation and and in his view, Christians will take over and by taking over to the elections. They will then impose their Christian values on the nation which will then be for the good of the nation circling benefits. The only ones who can work together. Those who can be part of this or Christians do not work together with you don't work with the bench up or don't work with the Dennis Prager don't work with any of these men unfolding in some of the names some he's mentioned himself because they are not Christians as is exclusively Christian movement and he's referred to Jews reference Scripture and passed Revelation 2939 your quote synagogue of Satan taking verses out of context and this using the is very disturbing. These are some of the standard anti-Semitic tropes in the 2% ruling over the 98% and things like that. A very dangerous we've seen what's happened in past history of written about this documented this for years, so I'm read some quotes but striking that in the midst of Israel under attack from Gaza and some of the conflict. Thankfully it did not last that long.

And at this point there's been relatively little bloodshed. Overall, on on on all sides involved but in the midst of a war in Israel that this story got the most attention is because of the danger of this kind of Christian nationalism. It is because of the history of anti-Semitism in the name of Jesus that he gets this attention, even though the vast majority of Jewish people around the world and Christians available don't know who enter tour business got a strong platform to reach good number of people.

Hence, there is reason for concern.

So here he's doubling down on some of his previous comments listen to the first clip. This is a big time this is a Christian movement.

So, no we don't want people who are atheists. We don't want people who are Jewish.

So why is that difficult understand they are so mad that I said this right there so mad that I said that we don't want people who aren't Christian in a Christian movement.

Why is that complicated. Why is that so controversial right so entry. The reason it's controversial, as you say number of other things in your comments about the Jewish people. And when people are working together for the common good of the nation.

When people share concerns about the direction of the nation about the direction at the left is taking it about attacks on some of our fundamental shared values. This let's work together for the common good and you say no because this is an exclusively Christian movement in America is a Christian nation that is going to raise eyebrows for many many reasons. All right got a few more clips I want to play for you don't have time to play this next clip before the break phone lines are open again will begin to the calls of little while, 866-348-7884 but you know, just like in the black American community with the death of George Floyd. It brought up a lot of memories of the past. Even if you say will statistically that police brutality is very very minor and its equally distributed Blacks, white suspense, etc. even if you with a statistical argument. The was a very deep history is very deep. The bed memories are very deep and some of them are very current and therefore you see something like that and you say this is very traumatizing to see this by fertilizing the video so a Similar Way, Jewish person hears from things like comparing within the said to what did you hear these things you say reason for concern here will be like a line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown got on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown, the sacred words that are chanted in some daily religious Jewish community from Deuteronomy 6, your Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one with your Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord alone followed by words that then faded out a speaking blessing over the one these words it up over the rabbi's his glorious kingdom is forever and ever. Michael Brown working with their leaders Thursday here on the line of fire, 866-3487 84 for your Jewish related questions, but let's let's go back to a second clip from Andrew Torbert so he's he's playing words that he's previously said the CEO of gab is playing words, it is previously said and then he's reinforcement with this I started to document the status on pronouncements on the threat of the generalists hands on the Christian nationalist movement as represented by Kevin yes on the threat of people who were not Christian running and empower of a Christian country yes we we are going to talk about this, whether Jew or atheists or pay again or anything else were going to continue talking about this because this is the United States of America and we have the First Amendment which allows us to talk about these things correct. This is the United States of America not the church of Jesus Christ, correct we stand, and that the flag of the United States not under the banner of Christ, all individually millions of Americans stand in the better of Christ. My allegiance a million times more is to Jesus on the cross into my nation, which I love and appreciate, but that the differences are our vast right America is a fallen nation that needs the Lord with with some powerful Christian roots, but explicitly established as a nation for all people.

All right.

And and yes, to the extent that we have a Christian majority that lives Christian at this Christian name only, and votes Christian then you have that vote.

So be it. But this is a free country that was established by the founding fathers to be a free country.

Although with very strong Christian roots and much appreciation for even biblical Hebrew roots among some of the funds. Reba John Adams had to say.

For example, about about that the Jewish civilization and its impact on the world this idea 2% running the nation that is typical anti-Semitic fear mongering and under the First Amendment. I can sure that just as clearly as Andrew Torbert shares we we been around this mountain before we know where this way of thinking goals. Even the ideas. Some Jewish cabal waiting to take over the world. This is a much Andrew troubles that I don't know if you stress that are not but this is just part of the myth of the protocols of the elders design part of the myth of anti-Semitic or at another typical tropes of this that a lot of this came to attention, people had no idea who Andrew Torbert was but as a consultant for GOP gubernatorial candidate Thomas Triano in Pennsylvania who's been very openly Christian and variably praying at his meetings and and and having prayer at the meetings and very clearly identifying his cause with the cause of Jesus. Three maybe a fine Christian man, I would say you have to be careful how you merge things together politically. Lest you give the impression that really take over the nation as Christians and impose Christian values and set up some kind of theocracy which I absolutely oppose as a Jesus lover as a Jesus follower as a man of the word is a man who has some acquaintance with history so Douglas Triano on his part, has said this, that he rejects anti-Semitism and is sought to distance himself from the storm. Andrew Torbert doesn't speak for me or my campaign. I reject anti-Semitism in any form some great theorem say that.

Let's listen to a more extended quote from Andrew Torbert disk want to represent them failing to read some quotes it greater length in a moment I want to represent him fairly.

Again Andrew if you're watching this you can either ignore it if you get student you can you can ignore it. You can interact with me privately, you can come on the show and have a discussion we can set up some type of of Internet exchange, or you could blast me. Obviously, those are choices, but I'd like to interact with you are a really would I let's let's listen to great length, but this is a Christian nation. Christians outnumber you buy a lot a lot and were knocking a listen to 2%.

You represent 2% of the country. Okay were not bending the knee to the 2% anymore. The 98% of the rest of us know, 70, 75% of which are Christians. Self identified Christians were not taking anymore, but we are taking back our culture were taken back our country were taken back our government so deal with it. Nope, there's nothing you can do to stop us.

Because what has spent sent a motion it's snowballing now right it's not we have Marjorie Taylor green openly saying that she's a Christian nationalist, we have Matt Gates cannot flirted with it a little bit today with his his tweet on Christian nationalism. Wheatley, Paul Kosar, we have like people in Congress right now. Members of Congress right now were openly openly saying that there Christian nationalist. We have multiple candidates for governor who won their primaries and landslide are waiting in the polling right now and are going to win the governorships of multiple states who are Christian nationalists. We have officials not only at the state level, not only at the federal level but also at the local level. People were running for school boards people Christian nationals were running for school board micros national semi like concern Christian parents who are done were done done with this done done being controlled and being told or allowed to do in our own country by a 2% minority or by people who hate our biblical worldview hates or Christ hate our Lord and Savior done. It's over. So you better deal with it you can you can demonize me individually.

You can try and attack me.

But guess what, you know, I am just one of hundreds of millions of Christians in this country but so guess what, it's inevitable. Sorry, right.

And that's addressed towards the Jewish man that's really unfortunate.

It's a matter of demonizing Andrew.

It's a menacing those are ugly words.

Some of the more demonic the idea, for example, that regularly controlled by the 2% also choose a controlling of the mark got name for me the last 10 Jewish presidents of the last five Jewish presidents. Okay, how about one Jewish presidents all hang on hang on name from the last 10 51 Jewish VP. Oh, okay name for me.

Percentagewise, how many Jews there are in Congress over there more than 2% yet but how Alec who's making the major votes cast in the major votes along the way and on and on it goes, and the Jewish voices speaking up so loudly like David Horowitz trashing with the left is doing and exposing the darkness of the radical left.

Ben Shapiro, a steady conservative voice or or Dennis Prager who believes that the greatest enemy in America right now is not the Democratic Party.

In general, or liberalism, and generally finds liberalism to have a lot of value in it, but the left because everyone must stand together on to tonight against the left and there are other voices Jewish thinkers and conservative rabbis and other subs I've interacted with Orthodox ultra-Orthodox rabbis who we've got to stand again together against transgender activism and and the insanity for the left is going in various issues, etc. no, but with the anti-Semitic tropes the Christians fighting the 2%. The Jews all do most American Jews share the values of left yes did the Jews have great influence is a Southern poverty Law Center and ACLU and these influence organization. Yes the federal suppositions just as the majority of American Christians are not regular for Jesus when Andrew says there are hundreds of millions of us had any of the population of America that's with 330 million. Okay.

And those professing to be Christian is now at 70%, 70%, so, so that puts that number of about 220 million professing to be Christian that's that's barely hundreds plural sliver 200 out of that number or half truly follow Jesus living by the word of God seeking our Lord. Maybe 1/4 so the number of actual committee Jesus followers of the Americas much much lower right. But this it is can't stop it. It's coming your way taken over.

That's dangerous talk. I would love to see more Christians in politics. I would love to see more godly people in our courts. I would love to see more godly teachers more godly people in the school.

I'd love to see it. Jesus followers and sharing the good news is spreading the life, but this idea really take over not be ruled by others is coming your way is dangerous rhetoric friends this reason I wrote the political seduction of the church. There's a reason I have a whole chapter asking is, the church called to take over society.

There's a reason I have a whole chapter exposing the dangers of Christian nationalist which is different than saying I love Jesus and I love my country and am concerned about the direction of my country as a Christian, they are very very different from that it is wrapping the gospel in the American flag. It is crystallizing American Americanizing Christianity is one in the same together in order to hook yet do it all was that aspect of round.or order today to see how much you make. When order 1600 foot to you the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown got on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown delighted to be with you 866-34-TRUTH going to the phones in a moment so Douglas Triano according to this account in the Jerusalem Post does not have an account now on gab it says but a few days before the controversy controversy erupted. The strata was a Christian on Facebook link to a video of a messianic Jew song in Hebrew with the message Shabbat shalom of the best worship songs history so obviously that this Christian man wants to distance himself from any purpose anti-Semitic comments because they do not represent who he is served in Pennsylvania separate the comments of interest were about the Jewish people from the views of candidate Douglas Triano of just a couple more quotes from intertribal. This isn't the big tent. This is a Christian movement. So, no we don't want people who are atheists don't want people who are Jewish, you will be part of the Christian movement explicitly Christian political, social, cultural within you must be a Christian understand what is so controversial about that statement. There's nothing hateful about that statement is on the customer's of course is controversial. Resume this into explicitly Christian, you're saying if you're voting for a particular candidate because you believe in pro-life ethic will know not part of this movement, leisure, Christian circular immigrant atheist with the pro-life ethic when it is as pro-Israel know you're not part of this, of course role part of the same thing when it comes to voting because voting is a political act. It is a cultural act and may be based on religious values resulting to do in the church you do it in a voting booth because it is a secular act.

You can do it in the name of Jesus through the name of Allah to do it in no-name but either way the boat is just a secular vote and people are voting together for a candidate voting against a candidate.

He said this about the Jewish people their holy book is the Talmud not the Old Testament it's not the Torah. We don't have a shared value system abortion baby murder is a Jewish value was that a Christian value. This is what we can have a Judeo-Christian movement of those two worldviews.

Those two theological moral frameworks are in direct conflict newly groups of people that are chosen are those that believe in Jesus Christ and call him king. They are the chosen seed of Israel.

Ben Shapiro is not welcome in the movement unless he repents and accepts Jesus Christ as Lord seems even say that the Old Testament is not holy book to the Jewish people or the tour is not holy but source foundation of everything. Yes, the Talmud is a lens which everything is seen and by the way religious Jews are very strongly against abortion except in the early stages. They have joined together with Christians in pro-life work over the years just to set the record straight. All right, let's let's go to the phones will start with Deborah in Maple Grove, Minnesota.

Welcome to the line of fire. Hi Dr. Brown I just want to tell you thank you for the show. I didn't know anything about Paris.

I'm never really heard of Christian nationalism or know what that term meant and I've never heard this man. Andrew and I just think it's so important what you're saying. Bringing this to our attention on my hope and prayer is that on he will respond to you. It kinda sounds like he's just uneducated on.

I think your role is so important on your bringing things to lighten helping people see things that you know because I'm at just a glance, it might sound good handy Christian nation. Let's get back to it, especially, you know, we tend to go from one ditch to another, you know, we see our nation going on the tube so somebody saying Christian nation. Now you think you let's do it without knowing all the facts and figures here and your bringing really, really important information to light, so I just want to encourage you. I want to thank you for this and I hope you will respond to you because they think on educating hammers and other people who are following him helping them see the bigger picture here and understand it's really important.

So thank you for lunch yet you welcome Deborah and there are definitely some prominent anti-Semites who are having a negative impact on gab, which I knew from one of my colleagues who really thinks that that Andrew sincere and who really wants us to try to help him some ideas. My speaking about this publicly is after not hearing anything back in the one means that we had to reach them just like the general public, whether the general media would so my goal is to help however if these are his deeply held views them that I must expose the must rebuke them as being erroneous and this is one as one who for many many years, has promoted a gospel based moral and cultural revolution. In other words, that we, as followers of Jesus change so radically that we have a radical impact on the society around us for good by people coming to faith and having hearts and minds changed now that can only be done in the power of the spirit.

But the larger culture wars were fighting or the larger political battle that involves a whole lot of people, people of like faith in people not of like faith and we join together for the common good jet just like if there were some natural disaster and there was a mudslide and people trapped in the mud and you're going to pull people out before they die. There is a will your Christian because when a Christian I'm not working with developers of the month@look at so much in America.

Yes, the gospel must come first. That's our ultimate solution. So that's what we lead with but will be working the political and the cultural we work together for common good. He thank you Deborah for the call. In the words of encouragement and by all means let's let's pray for Andrew rather than curse him and push him away. Let's pray for him. All right let us go to Carl in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho. Welcome to the line of fire. Hi Dr. Brown, can you hear me okay yes I can appreciate your I've been listening to you. Now practically every day or during the week for about a year late, so I really appreciate you. So I'm recently our pastor preached a sermon any used or short virtual portion of the verse from Jeremiah 31 three about God's everlasting love and drawing us with loving kindness and he was criticized by one of the congregants whose kind of a scholarly apologist type guy saying that you know you can't take scriptures like that out of context because there spoken to the nation of Israel.

Specifically, and it's not right for us to appropriate them for ourselves. My son-in-law related this to me and I responded to them, saying, if no Scriptures reflect the general character of God, which I believe I saved your Jeremiah 31 three times it's it's fair enough for us to be able to take those Sosa is something that we can appropriate for ourselves lately. You know I hear a lot of the machinery can't use Old Testament Scriptures. The context of conflict and such as some people want to just throw out the Old Testament entirely what you what your thoughts on this and did I respond to with my response okay to him.

Yes number one. Your response itself was quite accurate and no one can argue with that. Theologically, in other words, if there is a verse about God's goodness to Israel and it reminds us of God's nature being good then how can we possibly be misapplying that if we draw from that that God is a good God, so you're absolutely right that we can go further than that. Romans 15 for Paul said, for whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction is likely less a connection but I guess call to skip listening on our great radio station in the morning all in in Idaho so for whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction, that through endurance and through the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope. Right. So read this again for whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction, that through endurance and through the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope will support your first with its 10 one through 11 that speaks of God's judgments on ancient Israel and says these are warnings for us.

We can point to second Timothy 316, 17, where he says all Scripture is given by inspiration of God is God breathed and is for our edification, growth, and for the man of God in ministry. So this is for four and is talking about the Hebrew Bible, the Old Testament, that was the Scripture of the day that he was referencing so the, the, the, the whole Bible belongs to every follower of Jesus. We just have to rightly apply.

Think of it like this. I'm reading first Corinthians who was there printed to the Corinthians. It is specific context with certain history behind but can I read that and now make direct applications about life.

Of course, so will meet.

We just want to do things right. We don't want to take something that say God tells Joshua River. You put your feet down and give you that land and say you know I like my neighbors properties on the walk on my neighbor's property and I will become island. Obviously that's a misapplication in the misappropriation. Many Christians will quote from from Jeremiah 2911 were God says that I have good plans for you, plans to to to give you wholeness and peace, etc. and and and I want to do good for you is a will that was a promise to the exiles that we can be restored. Their chemical attacks over the can be restored. True, but can the Holy Spirit speak that to us, as applicable as God's children can can something that was specifically spoken through Jeremiah to Israel that I've loved you with an everlasting love will how much more God's love for his bride through the cross. So as long as we don't misappropriate. Of course we can make spiritual application. Look at Isaiah 5417 call cleats are likely to flock the weapon formed against you will succeed, but was a promise to Jerusalem after that the work of the suffering servant and a promise to rejoice in the in the future.

We gobbled restoring the streusel, but it goes on to say, so not a lot of they are denied the cheek atomically teaming him on the run like this is the inheritance of the servants of the Lord in their vindication of their righteousness is for me so we can say in that same spirit as God's righteous people. No weapon formed against us will succeed. The biggest thing is don't steal it from Israel which of course is the opposite of what you be saying don't steal it from Israel. So the church has done that.

It's made itself the spiritual Israel and the promise is agog a physical is reducing all those hours and they don't apply to physical Israel don't still have a chapter in our hands were stained with blood, saying, that shall not steal. So don't steal the promises, but appropriate them with proper contextual exegesis and they make spiritual application of course this is know what were doing to do it right the whole Bible is for us in that regard. Okay to let Salman Rushdie get your calls the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown got on the line of fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown is a messianic Jewish worship.

Think of being in the land where we think this is where this happened 2000 years, with 3001 this is where it's gonna happen when the Lord returns and this is where Yeshua taught over here and yet out of the Sea of Galilee is worshiping the Lord together yet. This is where Jesus same same see with his disciples thing to be a part of that is that amazing severely join us.

It's it is the trip of a lifetime. Go to the website ask Dr. Brown.org or or numbers of people. It will bring with us is limited so go there today.

If you're thinking of coming. It's May 2023 all the details on the website ask Dr. Brown WC is first or second slide that comes up on the website okay so Salman Rushdie born in India lived in in Europe or America. Over the years and in the 80s. He put out a book called Satanic verses that was about Mohammed. There are two verses in the Quran where Mohammed seems to point to worshiping other deities and then later it's revealed to him that he was inspired by Satan to speak those things he thought it was a law that was actually Satan obviously is a scandalous concept.

If you're Muslim, and when some