Revisiting the Passion Translation

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network will let's talk again about the passion translation is the translation is a paraphrase should be used in time for the line of fire with your host difficult scholar and cultural commentator Dr. Michael Brown your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity. Call 866-34-TRUTH to get on the line of fire and now there's your host Dr. Michael Brown again God focusing on translations of the Bible were talking in particular about the passion translation so any question you have of any kind. Phone lines are open. There was an issue yesterday within the phone set up because of the folks recalling and unable to get through but it's been resolved so by all means cause on all questions are welcome, but in particular Bible translation related calls are especially welcome or specific questions about the passion translation 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH 87884 before we get into this. I was looking through some of the comments on YouTube yesterday had a few minutes last night was glancing through them and solicit Dr. Brown really tired on the areas to get some sleep, but wasn't aware that I look tired certainly felt good for your crate right now so rested well thriving. But thanks thanks for the concern anyway of you maybe need more make note no makeup on here anyway. But in it. In any case.

In any case, glad to be with you.

Appreciate that we can take this time together. Okay when I was first asked about the passion translation few years ago on the year. I said, there's a lot of good in it, beauty really valuable wonderful renderings that I really appreciate, and others that are are two free for me. But in any case, it's a paraphrase that the translation then I got pressed by some callers note you need to look into this more deeply there all kinds of wild claims from the transmitter. Brent Simmons. He's misrepresenting his credentials and it's really dangerous, etc. so I dug in deeper.

Brian and I know each other. My close friends, but I preach this church. Years back when he was pastoring in Connecticut spent time with him and his wife candy and found them to be real lovers of the word of God very devoted to the work they were just talking casually about the Bible translation work they did in the Amazon etc. and I had watched any of the interviews we talked about the translation or how it came about, or any special inspiration that he felt he was. He was given by God to do the translation but I did take into things more deeply and in digging more deeply, my, my big concern became that people are looking at this as a translation where is its a paraphrase and at times and expanded paraphrase.

I mean really going beyond the text to put a certain interpretation on the text when they Brian believes is reflected in the original languages, which then he'll document in the extensive footnotes, but most people just reading the translation and when I saw that people using this as their primary Bible.

That's always shouting from the rooftops no-no don't do don't use any paraphrase is your primary Bible ever ever ever note the message Eugene Peterson. Sometimes when doing serious academic work.

Sometimes wall rewriting a commentary I've quoted from the message because the paraphrase Bowman really hits home. Well it Eugene Peterson taking the words of Scripture and expressing them in his own thoughts, but from what I've been told he would never ever want you to read it as your primary Bible. No use it in a secondary way as a paraphrase to get an interpretation that is not expressed in different words as to what Eugene Peterson in this case Brent Simmons feels that the word of God say that it in terms of the passion translation. There are places where it is much closer to a traditional translation that it is not paraphrased then there are others that are very paraphrased, you could look at the rendering of some of Paul's letters in it. It's much closer to the text and look at the rendering of song of Solomon and it's it's tremendously expensive. In any case, my counsel to Brian as a friend has been declare loudly from the rooftops that is a paraphrase, not a translation encourage people to use it in a secondary way, but not as a primary Bible and take in the various criticisms from different Bible scholars who love the word of God are fluent the original languages and learn from those and then go through the whole work and put out a brand-new addition.

Ultimately, I think 2027 is the targeted for to be completed put it out like that.

That's been my suggestion to Brian now what about Pastor Mike Wenger's videos. He hired a team of scholars. He did not tell them what he was looking for but just asked them which you please evaluate this forming of the translation. I know some of the scholars. The ones I know are not anti-charismatic, the ones I know or colleagues and friends of mine others. I don't know well but there respected in their field and from everything I can understand. There was no intent that they had coming into bash were to attack were to prejudge so I've encouraged Brian go through those videos. Learn everything you can from them to sharpen the work Bible translation is tremendously difficult of the many things that I've been called by God to do over the years doing her a translation of the Bible of the Í into the new test market, then let them isolate the Old Testament is not something I felt called to do the translation of Job's were the most difficult things ever did my life academically. One of the most difficult far more difficult than writing the commentary soul hate team Morgan we are not taking the same call from Isaiah. In Gainesville he should be on your list. We're not taking his call.

He calls every week with the same question so not taking that called us to because just caught it on the board here, so save everybody a moment okay so when when I was translating Job the code writing the commentary on the 42 chapters was easier than translation and it's it's the way I approach it to because every word go this way could go this doing of common words.

What's the best way to express okay. What if what if the same author say Paul's writings were for John's forcing through Johnson the same author uses the same word in the same context repeatedly.

Should you always translated the same way. To be consistent with is a play on words, how will be rendered in English so translated some of of of translated some of Isaiah and I got just get bogged down like it because you want to get rates the word of God right and you want to convey it accurately, according to everything I know Brian Simmons loves the word of God key that the activity he said he was involved with in the Amazon.

According to everything I know that is accurate. He was involved with what he says he was involved with any loves the word and he prays over this and takes it very seriously. So I am not a Brian Simmons basher.

I'm not a Brian Simmons defender. I'm simply speaking, based on my knowledge of the man. He loves the word of God and really wants to convey the force and power of the word of God to the maximum number of people and his worked on it painstakingly, but if it's called a translation that is misleading. It is not. There are parts that are more or less translation, but the fact of the matter is, it is primarily a paraphrase and in some places and expanded paraphrase Mike Wenger has told me and Mike's.

Mike's a colleague as well of me with my face-to-face.

Maybe once talk by phone a few times and in exchange Texan messages, but Mike said if it was called a paraphrase out of the gate. He never ever would have put out a video critiqued. It called another scholars and the moment Brian would say it's a paraphrase, then the controversy within for my he be very happy if it's expanded paraphrase, but if adjusted paraphrase. That's it. Controversy ends so that's the big issue. There aren't that limit me give you some examples.

I'm gonna read from someone okay Psalm one in the passion translation.

It says this what the light comes to those who follow God's ways they won't walk in step with the wicked are sure the sinners waiting to be found sitting in the score receipt the pleasure and passion is remaining true to the word of I am meditating. Dan Knight is true evolution of light will be standing firm like a flourishing tree planted by God's design deeply read by the bricks of bliss bring fruit in every season of the visor never dry never fainting of a blessed, ever prosperous, but how different are the wicked. All they are is dust in the wind driven away to destruction. The wicked will not endure the day of judgment for God will not defend nothing they do will succeed or endure for long, for they have no part with those who walk in truth. But how different it is for the righteous who embraces their passes. They move forward all the way of the wicked lead only to doom okay this this is someone in the passion translation out overall conveys things very powerfully overall the, the scope of what's written there very powerfully gets you the feel of someone but there are complete additions and complete changing of words on the wing of shared this directly with Brian. So if you say it's an expanded paraphrase, no problem. That's what you do.

The expanded paraphrase with George starts off that the Hebrew astray how you should feel a lot quote but cyclosporine is literally truly happy or how blessed is the man who doesn't walk in the counsel of the ungodly right that's that's where it starts will will you get this first line what the light comes to the one who follows God's ways is not there. That's an overall summary overall summary from Brian about what the Psalm is about, but is not there.

It's a complete edition if you calling a translation and you just added to the word of God is recalling an expanded paraphrase an assistant would recommend that this is just extra is not there, but at least you called an expanded paraphrase, or for example is his passion is to remain true to the word of I am terrazzo all deny is not the word of I am.

It is the teaching or instruction or law of Yahweh. So it's not I am and Toronto is not word the many other Hebrew words for words.

Civil principles, but Toronto is either teaching instruction or law, and in then meditating denied on the true revelation of light true evolution of light is just extra is just extra verse three till it will come back to this book phone line 08663487884 the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get on the line of fire by: 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown and friends for us on the line of fire. Thanks to Mike Wenger in the chat room there on YouTube.

He would not of hired scholars and Dennis passion project for the probably put out a single video addressing where it is misleading all clear.

Mike, thank you for the further clarifications try to represent accurately but in any case, the issue is calling something a translation and if you're reading. For example, the living Bible living Bible was a famous paraphrase from a few decades ago. Basically taking the King James is understand Kenneth Taylor involved that taking the King James and then paraphrasing up within looking at the Hebrew, Greek, to sharpen things along the way.

The new living translation is a dynamic translation, dynamic, being a technical word that it is it is more solid for thought than word for word, but done by top biblical scholars so it is mildly paraphrase stick all right and could be used for someone who's second language is English or John Wilkerson with teen challenge said that when they were trying to communicate like the parables of Jesus are different messages. What they found was that the NLT really brought it out strongly and clearly so for popular use, and I've often quoted in that regard, but if I was choosing a first translation in English was my first language is still in use the NLT because it is as I said mildly, paraphrase, stick by the tremendous reference and I use it frequently, and I quote from it often. Within those Bibles that are straight translations be at the King James B. At the ESV be at the NIV be at the ISP be at the NET be at many many others. There are different philosophies of translation within those and some will be closer to the biblical text in terms of the language in the order of words, but the expense of not coming out well in English right the NASB, for example, New Testament is trying to do that more with New Testament Greek, but it doesn't read as well as the NIV, which is seeking to follow the Hebrew and Greek.

But then to publish the English in a certain way that it reads more smoothly so when Bible translation. You have to decide which way you want to go because you can't do both fully at the same time and then a Jewish translation with certain presuppositions about the meaning of words or certain tradition understands what the meaning of words is given read differently than a Christian translation because scholars have your perspective that's gonna happen, but there's a distinct difference between the translation in a paraphrase, especially a more expansive paraphrase, so just to give you an example. Let's say someone doesn't understand your your asked quoted to them. All of send and fallen short of the glory of God and they say, what does that mean civil every one of us has done things that are displeasing in God's sight and that that fall short of his high standards she just paraphrased the verse right it's legitimate you paraphrased it, but if if if you want someone to say it's a transit. No, it's not Christmas you paraphrased with the Bible said to get the point across preachers, teachers do this all the time and II have been enriched by scholars who really know the word well and then do an expanded paraphrase of the book is like all in one and one book there. You know in a few chapters. I'm getting your full understanding is you you work for 20 years in the Comintern, Romans, and you put on an expanded paraphrase of Romans like okay got III know where you're going. On each verse. There is value in it but it has to be distinguished from stray translation or 8866-34-TRUTH.

Let's go over to Trevor in Corona, California. Welcome to the line of fire. Dr. Michael Brown leather show. Comment on the passion translation.

I think that the reason why Brian the reason why you feel comfortable calling it a translation of the code you think his work on what he claims is a revelation from God that the tribulation worketh coming by inspiration from God and you know it's like what you know God is basically giving me the insight and start partnering white go so strongly that the big campus, but that might Wenger have and I think that's probably one of the biggest mistakes that Brian is making in regards to the passion translation got it so that it, in other words from your understanding of Bryan's thinking he can call the translation because the God who inspired the Bible is inspiring his translation work, and therefore, even when he is adding and explaining further.

It's from the Lord that that would be what you're communicating right my paraphrase what you just said.] Regularly communicating and then running the only obvious issue with that is that scholars who have worked on. You know the original languages for their whole careers disagree with you, you know, you interpret his translation of the text and so I think it's a pretty clear example of an outgoing little further. You know that I think is a pretty clear example of what I would consider a charismatic excess potentially coming from that that that coming from that area right so so here's inside look at that and Trevor. I appreciate you bringing that up and that's something that the Mike Wenger has communicated to me that he is on his videos but is communicated to me privately, having dug in deep. Having looked at the claims on the website about the passion translation having listen to some Brian Simmons interviews that he is claiming a special inspiration so I have asked him about this. I didn't watch the show when he was on Sue Roth went whenever you're doing some of these TV shows that are out live. There is extra content that's recorded within not aired so maybe I may come in a and I said let me make sure I explained that what I meant and comment be like seeing John XXII chapter it all in heaven, something like that. Brian Newman at the Carver non-that's in there extra books of the Bible. I'm saying that there's so much more. The could of been to something like that. But that part didn't air so he understands how there could be misunderstanding within their other parts were does seem that Brian is indicated that the Lord showed him assert translation insight, for example by Hebrew homonyms. So that's a word that spelled the same way we can have two different meanings like the bank of the river or the bank where you go and deposit your money so we have many Hebrew homonyms and according to what I understand, and I unaware miss misrepresent, but according to what I understand that. He said the Lord told him for the look at that because you have these double meanings in the text out. There's something called Janus parallelism and that is that the writer intentionally has a double entendre that, for example, the song of Solomon. It says eight some year has come was a mere could been singing. Or it could mean pruning and sometimes like the verse before would suggest singing in the verse after pruning or some at that that's that's local Janus sparrows, so there are rare times when an author will do that.

But that's not the case and 99.999% homonyms. So one thing I brought out to Brian Psalm 23 one of the Michael E loss sought. So in Psalm 23 well known the imagery through the entire Psalm Shepherd imagery Shepherd imagery separate imagery right know and in the Valley shift of cognition tested him enough money.

Your rod and your staff they comfort me and all of this illicit Shepherd imagery throughout. But he says that the Lord is my shepherd and my best friend, and then it's based on the Hebrew root involved of in one route, so the homonym has to do with shepherding, feeding, tending the other route has to do with friendship, companionship. There are two different words and in fact they would've been vocalized differently so it does not say anything about friend zero yes is the Lord's posterior best friend is absolute, but the Hebrew doesn't say that. So that would be the challenge back that money to save us last thing and in fairness, I've I felt God stirred me to write books no or felt special grace in writing a common sight but really believe evidence like the but then you put forward for scrutiny and when I would just post North America about 780% of it of the quarry like six days and I couldn't stop writing.

I was up be ready go to sleep.

It's 230 the morning I got a right smart Rachel for as little I felt like fire and my just writing writing what I see some critic attacking me for saying that on claiming inspiration like the book of Mormon know I just gripped as I was writing just like you might be preaching some handgrip but then everything's tested. I wasn't claiming special revelation. I just felt wow God was really with me sought I could easily say I really felt the Lord with me as I was translating felt disgrace okay five now examine everything by the Hebrew, the Greek fair enough that you felt special when I did Job I did not feel that I felt like I was climbing a mountain walking in the mud. It was very difficult, but times are in the commentary felt special grace on me. So if that's also insane. I really felt the Lord with me in this project. Wonderful. Now everything is tested by the original languages by the Hebrew and the Greek etc. so yeah it to the extent of on a charismatic preacher, translator that I am claiming special divine authority backing my words but what you better test all of that by Scripture. What I'm claiming to say. If it doesn't line up with Scripture, then I'm self deceived if I thought the Lord, the Lord moved on the super Ashley told to tell you that the thunderstorm is supposed to come is not coming tonight so go ahead make your plans to be outside in the thunderstorm comes up and take account for the and if I say the Lord showed me that this Hebrew word means this and it doesn't ability confident absolutely. Thank you sir for the call and and again. That's a big issue that the pastor Mike Wenger has raised on the way it 663 fourth truth okay and come back to the phones. On the other side of the break. I'm going to get to other calls on other unrelated subjects. A little later in the broadcast first and foremost, if you have a Bible translation/specific versus brief or about the passion translation by all means give us call 866-34-TRUTH the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get on the line of fire by calling 866342 here again is Dr. Michael Brown. I got nine days until national not ashamed of Jesus day go there to the website.

Not ashamed of Jesus.org, the more the world tries to silence us the bore the world trust to cancel us. The more that we will stand up in the United front say we love Jesus we love you were here and were not ashamed. So, please share. This is why these you can. I believe this is going to be a powerful day to initiate new gospel evangelism to help people have been kind of the side lines get more on the front lines and just a time of encouragement and a time of joint voice sounding across America all right. Not ashamed of Jesus to remember to go there: 866-34-TRUTH okay Luke 11 and Matthew six. Those are the two places were the Lord's prayer is found right so Luke 11 for those watching you put it up in the NIV and as you're looking at it and most of you have memorized the Lord's prayer said church are familiar with it right our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name so let's let's see that now. Luke 11 so those watching you actually see it in the NIV Luke 11 under the reader to you in the passion translation verse two. Jesus taught his disciples taught them. This prayer our heavenly father made the glory of your name be the center on which our life are our life turns such resorts not that's that's a beautiful concept of God's name being holy, that his name his reputation, his glory and honor becomes the centralized but that is a very free interpretation of it and cover some of what that is about, but does not know the exhaust whether the is about 3000 to be hallowed wholly sanctified means people rent reverence and honor his name, not just us but the whole world.

May your Holy Spirit come upon us and cleanse us.

Where did that come from that's not there.

Not there. How can anyone say this is not an expanded paraphrase of menu essays, translation, and then what are some and uses us as a primary Bible and they're not quoting that.

No, Jesus didn't say that and say that manifest your kingdom on earth. Okay, give us our needed bread for the coming day, so scholars debate our daily bread.

Visit me for today for the coming day such as perfect widget. That's where he lands forgive our sins as we are cells release forgiveness to those who have wronged us and restless every time he faced tribulations Hazel paraphrase and the concept of forgiveness goes along with the causative release of a debt, so he combines that by saying release forgiveness. Again, I appreciate the thought behind the prayerful mist behind it. The conveying of different things that are in the Greek and bringing them out and and then with each one.

There is there is a footnote explaining it so I'm looking… See okay you just trying to find this year. All right, just looking to see how some of this is justified in the footnotes. Yeah. So transit from some of the earliest Greek manuscripts, things, and in any case, everything that is there. Brian will painstakingly explain footnotes, but certain things are there that that are not there that are further explanation or further interpretation or setting from a manuscript tradition that is not followed by the scholars so against painstakingly document it's done by someone who really does love and reference the word and and is on his knees and his praying and is wrestling with the meaning of words and all of that. I appreciate that I do and I'd love to see that there are renderings and passion ethical wonderful yeah oh powerful.

However, it's a paraphrase many places an expanded paraphrase and there should be extensive revisions done. Hey, I would be honored if if I was working on a Bible translation and other scholars took the time to critique what I had done I'd be honored by the bodily is really nice IQ criticize. Once I got over the fleshly responses, meet, not Brian was a go to the fleshly response that I appreciate okay good night make it sharper and will keep making it sharper. If the King James translators were alive today, they would not be used in the King James Bible, they would not. There is absolutely no way under the sun the abusing you, you read there there. The preface to the, the content translation they wanted a Bible in the language of the people for the day they'd be probably working on the 10th revision now so you even teams of Bible scholars that take years and years by the Bible translation that are subsequently revising and sharpening soul. When one person undertakes to transition the whole Bible, it's man's. In this case a paraphrase of the whole Bible. All right, let us go over to James and Strawbridge Georgia you're on the line of fire. Thanks for calling Dr. Brown are you doing doing well thank you in or near Stockbridge, Rahway, Stockbridge right when we're close but in the ballpark at birth that have a comment and then the question sure the comment I've met Brian was involved with our leader about the purple regarding your though I know Brooke and O'Brien and his writing Madeleine O'Brien well but with both and Mike Bickel recommended Brian commentary on the development of and so that's what introduced me to them and then Brian bookstore and want talk and just the sort of a different sort of down the line of defense a little bit. Brian really is into the bridal paradigm. And therefore he wanted to write everything that falls under that umbrella. That's where a lot of people miss what tried to do and it Ventilation the drive to put forth the infamously make everything fall under that umbrella right right so also for those who want it to strengthen for those who are unfamiliar with rabbis over the centuries. Read the song of songs song of Solomon is a love song between God and Israel. Many of the church interpreters have rated as a love song between Jesus and the church than others. Scholars said it Solomon or someone else in his lover, his bride and its sister beautiful love song and shows the beauty of marriage, etc. but yet these different interpretive ideas, but what you're saying and Brian Simmons nonessential song of songs, but the whole Bible is like a love song from God to his people and therefore should be read and interpreted. So all the more, and I'm sure he's communicated that in his notes, but all the more to say. This is an expanded paraphrase rent seeking to bring this out and adding extra words and extra sentences to convey that. So again that that's the key thing to communicate that so important that based on my understanding of the whole Bible is about this. Therefore, I am. I am doing this paraphrase to bring that out and enhance insult you'll find song of Solomon is far more paraphrase stick then say that the rendering of of one of Paul's letters are some of the other Old Testament books. Because of the nature of it and that's what's taken so the most criticism is something like that for Kunkel is translation when is the whole thing is is is addition, from beginning to end anyway but I appreciate you raising that and it does help clarify further the nature, the nature of the work and Brian's heart doing it so your your question, go ahead sir, originally expressed by Dr. Anna, you're one of the one current rate that for this scholarship. I just read a two-volume book by Douglas Woodard called rebooting the Bible where he argues or you spell and where he argues for the at least the quality of the pharmacy of the Septuagint over the empty with his argument being that their dented older than our present a perfect and that they document how many that the Masoretic and later time out New Testament literally intentionally important. The rewrote Scripture change thing if they knew you didn't say one thing to buy another at the argument again the fixed birth of early Christianity used in the Hebrew text.

Before five and met and they were losing the battle because the church was going to Gentile and a lot of you were all pervert but they work following that pathway into believing I call that John and I were concerned about. And so there is just a quick question just to start at first, congratulations on the on the doctorate and then get into these mindset of not looked at them. Of course he said he swimming up Mount Everest units it to give this argument and to try to argue for Septuagint supremacy of the entire Hebrew canon. There Old Testament massively swinging up swimming up Mount Everest. There, but what does he say are the earliest manuscript copies that we have the Septuagint actual copies of Greek manuscripts of the Septuagint admit that there are not that another pay reluctantly more is always lost a lot more of what we do have is argumentative that their new brick by stone Hebrew text where the right right elbow just simple thing to to clarify this for everybody.

What does he say the earliest Septuagint Greek manuscripts that we actually have howled with her pre-met pre-under November the this is who this is the first thing is to say that the Septuagint dates back before Hebrew no of course I mean we all know, and he agrees that the Septuagint is translating Hebrew saying it's translating a different Hebrew text became those is measure textual tradition.

However, the oldest examples that we have of of measure textual tradition date back in in physical writing to Dead Sea Scrolls before the time of Jesus, whereas the earliest Septuagint of manuscripts that we have basically are. After the time of Jesus that we do have some other ancient Hebrew traditions that have been preserved, but the problem is on every level on on every level, and I'll come back to us on the inside of the plague on every level of the Septuagint demonstrates it is translation for viewer many times where something is wrong with your strugglers based on deviating for the measuring text metric text must be the starting point final the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get on the line of fire by calling 86634 through here again is Dr. Michael Brown) are okay for him understandably get the can so just closing words James about this.

I just clicked on Amazon to find out more about this book. Rebooting the Bible and about us. Douglas Woodward who wrote it. These two major volumes. Douglas Doug Woodward is a high tech executive with over 40 years experience as a management consultant financial advisor to start up, and emerging companies just as a nationally recognized speaker Christian Bible prophecy symposiums offer 15 books addressing Christian theology and eschatology is not a biblical scholar is not a textual scholar. This was a swimming up Mount Everest cycle work.

This amount of evidence against it even even the blurb rebooting the Bible. Part two shows how the original timeline of the Greek Septuagint transitive from human text 400 years older than it used to measure the text dramatically revises the traditional stores of Eden, Adam, etc. so Mr. claiming all that be 99.99% sure you have to throw out the overall thesis. Even the idea of the Hebrew text being 500 400 years older than metric text with this vote.

We know when the Septuagint was translated we know, and many many different ways different hands begin asserting to the second century, the DC okay. We know that many many different ways. This first thing second thing we know that you have the metric textual tradition represented already in pre-Christian times. The Dead Sea Scrolls, so to say it's a tradition for years earlier that then pushes her back to 500 BC, which is 20 years before Septuagint is rigorous because even done and again that there are your strugglers principal one called wholemeal to Luton where your your writing.

You look up and then you look back and you keep writing but what happened is your I fell on Anna. The same word to lines below are right you have recopied something it happens easily, and when you go back in with the original six years with Scarborough to place a we can even understand some of the scribal errors in the strategic based on the measuring text with tradition here and there.

There are deviations in the Dead Sea Scrolls indicate that there were different Hebrew textual conditions are right on some level, some deviation, but that which is copied the most meticulously and passed on the most carefully is not metric textual tradition now within that.

Could there be vocalizations that were anti-Christian or ordering of books are things that you have their arguments about the edible book orders the same for manuscript manuscript in the captors the same order.

Then, in any case, I know you went through working on this, but I would put a new mass massively giant? Next to these thesis followed by 10! Hey, thank you for the call and missed Woodward if you listing and feel a bit unfair or someone sent you a link to be unlikely to suffer publicity. Someone sent you this link then let's let's talk about on their seriously but the mockingly not to set you up but some serious discussion about it all right let us go to Adam in Winchester, New York. Thanks for joining us on the line of fire, and good afternoon Dr. Brown left here your family. Thank you everybody down in North Carolina after Dr. Brown Manx about the whole world. Why not what Hector New York, though Lester's all right mother it were getting close on these names and just read them off the board ahead.

No problem. I have a couple of things.

First, I am Jewish, so when I first started going to church and 2012 Mike Pastore introduced me to you knowing I was going to go overwhelm him with all of my questions and I sort eight sermons from one of your website. All Israel shall be saved. The baptism of tears for Israel is two-fisted unitive guy and five others. I'd like to know where I could find them now to point others to them.

Also, are there any videos for the sermon or are they only available in audio yet glad I can hang it let you drop with respect to a Bible verses with respect to a king over Israel. Can you please reconcile Deuteronomy 1714 and first Samuel eight and a yes or amused via TLV the Bible you don't understand, jump into it to explain that everyone just fruit for time. Second, and thank you sir for the call and the kind words and your pastor accesses real wisdom.

Their new dealing with new Jewish believer. Glad to have use as part of the family so that series of messages and teachings should be available if you asked her to Brown.org SK DR Brown.org Esther to Brown.org.

Click on store and then audio so Esther to Brown.org SK dear Brenda restore and then audio and I think it stand with Israel think that's the MP3 series as to videos existing.

I only know of audio. Those are old messages.

Those go back into the early 90s.

Baptism of tears for Israel was 1991 in Kansas City. If I recall, and Ira remember it for many dramatic reasons, extraordinary story very intense day for a painful day Dave, great bird before the Lord, but Esther to Brown.org store. Click on audio but make sure you go to real Messiah.com Adam real Messiah.com.

We have tons of teachings on video on audio in writing debates with rabbis a absolute treasure trove for someone like you. As for Deuteronomy 17 which legislates God giving a king to Israel versus first Samuel eight where symbols warning the people in God's God saying hey they don't want me as King. They want their own king there rejecting me or why would God on one hand, say okay setting up King and here's how you do it and make sure they do XYZ to avoid abuses and another God saying no, I'm on the king of Israel Whitewater.

They want to king critics would say critical scholars would say that cruise Deuteronomy is written after first Samuel and reflects later developments.

That's the critical the biblically-based view that would take the text as as stated chronologically stated is that Deuteronomy was giving us pragmatic laws just like Deuteronomy 24 gives us divorce laws and Jesus tells us in Matthew 19 that was because the hardness of heart is never God's ideal never God's ideal but was because of the hardness of heart of human beings. That's why God gave divorce laws of God pragmatically knowing this is going to happen and knowing that he's going to raise up. Ultimately, a David Messiah through this line is okay. Here's how you deal with it, but it was not based on the perfect ideal, we would need an earthly king and just have God as your king. It was based on Israel sin and Israel's earthly desires who does give you something redemptive through it, and Deuteronomy 17 is just being pragmatic. Hey thank you sir for the questions and the blessings of let's go over to Chris in Gainesville Georgia. Thanks for holding through the whole show. Welcome to the line of fire to protect Michael or have a quick question out there to get a template I work at a large ability to help your ability and although it is not publicly like Christian in the name that the Io, the president, I give the public beach though. Prayer, etc. and anyway they have a small chapel built on site and it has a large cross like a small altered depiction of the bank and statute more effective to do this anyway.

I go in there on my lunch break right and today I was in there and I'm assuming that the birth of the buckle and she came in and the kind of garbled had wrapping walked in and jumped over the large prayer mat angled it began like a combo. I'm assuming her afternoon first time a ritualistic bowing getting up fouling up and I was still a bunch of different emotion I felt a little disrespected up a little bit of anger that I started feeling pity and I just wanted to know how you would, I'll be stuck on a puffin puffin leave her, but that I just struck Amanda Weber on the one true God. What I love what you did in terms of your response in the midst of that was to pray over her in Jesus name and the more loudly and clearly do it in Jesus. They knew Jesus the son of God, etc. the more that would be contrary to her beliefs, but I would think that since it is set apart in that way that you would want to have rules saying it's it's not appropriate to come in and offer Islamic prayers here because is a fundamental denial of God's true unity, a fundamental rejection of Jesus as the son of God the things that we believe would be considered heretical in his law and you could ask her politely. So if I went into a mosque and an and got on my knees and said Jesus I worship you Lord God, I praise you son of God, I love you with that the acceptable and obviously it's I can be acceptable in a mosque because it would be considered blasphemy to do that so you could say hey if you need a place then there is a room that does the private room somewhere where someone can go even try to be accommodating and gracious, but in the say that this is set apart for the gospel than this. This is about Jesus and then enough it became some problem where the person wants to be confrontational or kinda had a right to do XYZ know I would. I would say will those boats put on Christian praise and worship music. No threats that's always going to be on and I can't. It's not allowed to turn it off.

You know I would do my best to be gracious to someone and welcoming, etc. but when you cross a certain line and do things in a religion that calls our faith ultimately blasphemous and things cherished us blasphemous and heretical than the it it is out of place for her to be doing that, by the way I thought you might've headed Islamic question if you ever if issues come up specifically in conversation, answering – Islam.org answering – Islam.org got a ton of info there. Lots of details that the words usually bring this woman.

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