Face to Face with the Persecuted Church in Pakistan

The following is a prerecorded program. This is really serious stuff your brothers and sisters. The body of Christ. They are suffering terribly around the world stage for the line of fire, your host activist all the international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of Ministry get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH your Jim is Dr. Michael Brown friendship. We are going to devote this show to the persecuted church in reality we could devote every show to the persecuted church in every single day, five days a week, 52 weeks a year would have moving stories to tell you compelling stories, heartbreaking stories, and yet stories of victory stories of Jesus moving in the midst of his people will be taking a calls today, but I tell you how the show is going to go the first half of the show or talk about what's happening in different parts of the world and in the second half of the show to take you into a previously recorded interview with a Pakistani pastor he was with us recently here in the states talking firsthand about the things that he has seen firsthand about the things that he has suffered and experienced so that's were going to do today, I encourage you to share this with a friend.

These are our brothers and sisters were talking about part of our own family and remember how Jesus feels about this when Saul of Tarsus was persecuting fellow Jews who believe that Yeshua was the Messiah. He had encountered directly with the Lord and Yeshua. Jesus said to him, Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me this, the Puritan author and leader Thomas Watson pointed out that the body being struck the head cried out, so this is something that the Lord looks at every single day and ask you to consider this. If you are the one suffering. If your family was suffering. If you are the one being thrown in prison if your children were taken from you because of the gospel. If if your family members were being tortured or beheaded for the gospel witness.

You think that brothers and sisters in the rest of the world should know about this when you think that that your cause. Your suffering should be of interest to us. If it's for the gospel and for the name of Jesus.

So we want to hear these things and not feel guilty for the liberties that we do have but to use those liberties to honor the Lord depression in prayer to do what we can to make a difference and then to be strengthened at the very least, to be strengthened in our own resolve to stand a think of what my friend eventually Steve Hill used to say picturing sitting at the marriage supper of the Lamb you're sitting across from a girl who who was martyred rather than deny our faith, tortured rather than deny her faith. She reads to talk to you all wanted you to tell about your life and saying that we would feel because of our cowardice because of our pride because of our love of security and in personal interest rather than losing our lives for the gospel.

Jesus promised us this John 15 don't be surprised if the world hates you. Don't be surprised. First Peter four and then Jesus in John 15.

If the world hates remember it. It hated me that's what's going to hate you because the gospel Matthew five we are to rejoice when these things happen to us as part of her calling. Ask five.

The apostles leave the Sanhedrin rejoicing because they were counted worthy of suffering reproach for the gospel.

Let's take a look at open doors open doors. One of the leading ministries working with the persecuted church with the suffering church.

Every year they put out a Worldwatch list. I hear the top 50 countries were its most difficult to follow Jesus. So we start to scroll down through the whole list but I want look at the first couple North Korea communist and post-communist oppression and in in point of fact, there is not a a national religion inherits his main religion agnosticism. Another cannot do with Islam or Hinduism or Buddhism, and in this is state-sponsored not state permitted state-sponsored persecution and for quite a number of years now North Korea is been on top of the list of and come back to that in the moment.

But now, would you just go through the whole list number two Afghanistan three Somalia four Libya five Pakistan, let's pause there for a moment we going to speak with a Pakistani pastor in the second half of this broadcast and and one of the things that he told me after the interview was over.

He said there there are some Pakistani Christians who on national TV and they have certain liberty said, but they will not cross lines and it gives a false impression to the rest of the world. All this complete liberty their luck. There is Pakistani pastor on TV preaching.

You can even have some open meetings and things like that. It there's an appearance of liberty appearance of freedom. There is constant persecution and oppression of Christians. There which is why Pakistan is number five on the list. Okay, back to the list. Number six Eritrea number seven Yemen's Eritrea Ethiopia neighbors number seven Yemen number eight Iran number nine Nigeria focus on Nigeria in a moment number 10 India.

I let's pause there. India was not always in the top 10 like some of these countries enough Afghanistan for years and years is been up there North Korea for years and years is been up there with India son always in the top 10. What is happened with the militant Hindu government and calls for a Hindu nationalism.

In other words, India has a Hindu religion just like Trump had the make America great seem make America make India Hindu again tremendous pressure on those who have converted open persecution of those preaching Jesus.

So things have heated up now and varies from state to state within India, but it's gotten difficult enough, and there have been plenty of martyrs so that India is now number 10 on the list okay back to the list number 11 is Iraq number 12 Syria number 13 sued on number 14 Saudi Arabia number 15 Maldives so island off of. I was off well Africa and Asia area. Egypt is number 16 China 17 suppressants on higher on the list given how far China is gone in recent days. 18. The more for me it was Burma 19 Vietnam 20 Mauritania 21. It was Pakistan 22 Laos 23 Turkmenistan 24 Algeria 25 Turkey 26 Tunisia 27 Morocco 28 Mali 29 Qatar 30 Columbia 31 Bangladesh 32 Burkina Faso 33 Tajikistan 34 Nepal 35 Central American Republic, 36 Ethiopia 37 Mexico interesting.

38 Jordan 39 bring a 40 Democratic Republic of the condo. Congo, 41, Kazakhstan 42 Cameroon 43 Bhutan 44 Oman 45 Mozambique 46 Malaysia 47 Indonesia 48 Kuwait 49 Kenya 49 Comoros okay over half of those listed on Muslim just to give you an idea that remains the single most challenging issue in terms of worldwide. If you had to isolate where persecution is consistently coming from Islam and Islam.

When Islam takes over when Islam becomes the religion of the nation. It does so in an oppressive way it does so in a forceful way.

Islam does not mean peace. Islam means submission. Submission to a law just like Christians have the great commission. To quote Christianize the whole world to bring the whole world into the knowledge of Jesus were to spread the message around the world, until everyone has the opportunity here for themselves and then refuse or accept the offer of God's grace. Islam also wants to convert the whole world is to bring it into subjection to a law because Islam is not just a religious system by the political system and the legal system.

Then, when Islam takes over. It will take over in an oppressive way. For example in in the countries that are on this list the ones that are highest on the list would be standard that the penalty for for converting from Islam, Christianity's death. Just think of the level of commitment involved in it.

Think of that. Think of the level of commitment that you know that by following Jesus, you might die. You might die for.

Think, think of how that would prune and sift the body America and of the parts the world today that is that if you had a sign on the dotted line. Yes, I understand that following Jesus might cost me my life. I wonder how many would sign on that line but truly every real convert should every real competency mileage for the gospel. I'm lost in hell bound and under the judgment of God.

How could I not with heart, soul, mind, strength with everything within me say Lord I belong to you, whatever the cost. Whatever the consequence that you have others is a Mexican North Korea totalitarian regime or some others. It's just an oppressive dictatorial regime. But in point of fact, Islam is a major want some parts the world. Hinduism is a major one. Buddhist countries, their problems but but generally speaking, not on on the widescale that you're finally in China. Of course, even though it has various Asian Eastern religions big issue there is the communist oppression so communism that godlessness remains another issue as well. No country didn't find that list Israel. Israel always so terrible that Israel all Israel's genocidal apartheid Israel persecutes everyone Israel so unfair all their challenges.

If you're Jewish believer in Jesus. In Israel, there are challenges you might face opposition in different places you you might have those in the ultra-Orthodox community working with the government to try to restrict your rights or not allow new believers commandery but have people deported, but otherwise you miss congregations all over Israel meet and and churches meet constantly and have their services. You can have open-air worship. You can use your you're an Israeli citizen you're Jewish believer in your therapist recorder and how gospel literature can do it nephew Unser neighbors. It would be dangerous. You do that quite freely.

And of course America is not on the list is much as were having issues and challenges to our freedoms, we remain a very free country compared to much of the rest the world. So little shout out my brothers and sisters in America, Europe to choose the freedoms we have let let's use the platforms we have went when our big issue is I will fight if I share share the gospel here in on my might. If I share the gospel and I might get unfriended on Facebook friends but share the gospel friends are losing their heads losing their lives for the gospel were worried about losing a friend on Facebook, but let's use the liberties we have, which use the platforms we have is as believers are literally being killed for their faith on a daily basis around the world. This is commonplace. This is happened for endless decades.

Let's be strong in the Lord. Let's use liberties we have and let's get a heart can't we make it part of our regular discipline to pray for the persecuted church and if you go to a website like open doors burst upon the Lord go there persecution.com see what kind you have to get involved in many practical ways rights will be right back into the celebrating focus on fire. We will file the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the minor fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH dear again is Dr. Michael Brown, Julia's friends focus on the person a go there. There are witnesses, testimonies, words of exhortation from some of the early church leaders that the city should never have a service we don't mention persecuted brothers and sisters, and it's something it's just important that in a lot of our church life. We forget about we we literally forget about that whole year could go by and we never draw attention to the persecuted church in one of our public services let alone pray for persecuted brothers and sisters, let alone say okay here so you can write letters are hearsay and can give or your practical ways that you can get involved at the very least let's be informed and be informal, then drive us to pray so one of our fire international minister missionaries Joanne Jewish believer's been serving in Nigeria for years now and absolutely loves the people there loves living with the poorest of the poor and giving herself to to teach and train, educate the children educate the teachers leads many people to Jesus. If you can go right to Muslim villages and said hey if you need education will set up a Christian school for you and just bold and gracious to to do it and very close to having persecution of not that long ago we got an email urging prayer in the, the husband of one of their friends had been kidnapped by terrorist Islamic terrorists were demanding ransoming of the what happened there was prayer I will know how they got him back. I forget that detail because that's not what I focused on. We were praying and then got the word back some of ransoming was met, or God delivered him beyond that that I don't remember were just praying for for God's deliverance and then then get this report. Praise God, he's back.

He just has a gash on his head and is missing a couple fingers. Praise God, you think that for us. That said that's that's our story. The rest of our lives. You know that we go around on tour and talk about the I got a gash in my head for the gospel. Lost a couple fingers and listen. That would be fine if he drew attention to the suffering church and persecution in and you are you are helping alert and and and for the honor of doing that, but for them it was praise God that's all that happened because they knew that was actually a good outcome given the horrors of persecution so Joanne will regularly send us reports from Nigeria people that she knows friends of friends, colleagues of colleagues and then just reports from the newspapers, so I want you to see this. This is happening in Nigeria. Nigeria, the North is Muslim.

The South is Christian with some intersection and there's there's a lot of persecution of Christians that are in the northern parts of Nigeria and this this article says Nigeria experiencing religious genocide under Bihari who is a Muslim president let let's read down into some of this report, I want to hear firsthand. This is August 7, 2021 nuance joint report by the international committee in Nigeria international organization for peace building social justice is asserted in Nigeria is currently experiencing genocide, describing the nation as a failed state report titled Nigeria silent slaughter stated that no fewer than 43,242 Nigerians have been killed by Boca Rahman Islamic state insurgents while 18,830 for others lost their lives in the hands of colorful wily herdsmen over a 20 year period. So just on these minimal statistics you're talking about over 3000 people killed years almost 10 people killed a day and an most that I know would say these are super conservative statistics that the numbers are way way way higher than this and edited 34,233 other Nigerians met their deaths through extrajudicial killings by other actors, including the police, military others, announces lawlessness. Just these these different ones Army police taken onto their own hands. The report lamented what he described as quote the breakdown of the rule of law spiraling violence atrocities against targeted religious groups and innocent civilians. The apparent appeal impunity of the perpetrators in Nigeria. According to the report.

The combination of these factors contribute to transferring Nigeria into largely a failed state and regional epicenter for terrorism.

The authors of the report added that the research and found support in 1948 Universal declaration of human rights in the unit United 1948 United nations convention on genocide quote there is strong evidence in a compelling legal argument that over the past decade or so, increasingly under the current salami Muslim dominated Nigerian government of Mohammed Bihari. Nigeria is experience. What can be seen as targeted religious genocide or what the release is widespread and often coordinated religious persecution campaigns being conducted against Christians report stated in its introduction overview signed by the executive present of icon Stephen Nata executive director PSI Dr. Richard Keady in its forward. The report published 29 November 24th 2019 letter by member of the House of Lords, United Kingdom Baroness Caroline Cox calling on the international community to recognize the crisis in Nigeria's typical genocide while accusing the Nigerian government of pampering, colorful wily herdsmen never Bihari himself comes from a background cultural while the underlying causes of violence are complex. The asymmetry and escalation of attacks by well armed flooding bullish upon predominantly Christian community's historic and must be acknowledged on the jury administration is taking steps to counter Boca Rahman's urgency is not demonstrated the same commitment to tackle the escalating violence perpetrated by flaunting militants. Finally, given the Nigerian government's apparent complicity in the persecution of Christians. International aid should be curtailed until they protect and provide for their own citizens of any beliefs also forward a retarded American Congressman Frank Wolf urge the world to pay attention to Nigeria, noting that Boca Rahman surgeons and their decade-long jihadist campaign. I killed over 27,000 civilians of figures that was more than the number killed by Isis in Iraq and Syria combined both express the feeling of a jury can enclosed are consequences for neighboring nations in the world and implosion would destabilize the surrounding countries and send millions of refugees into Europe and beyond. Okay, just stop there for now friends. Those numbers those stats. Those not numbers and stats God's eyes was people in the eyes of the bereaved in the eyes of the suffering does not numbers stats those of their own lives again. I don't put these things out there to make you feel guilty for sleeping and I sped I do as well.

I don't say these things to make you feel guilty for being free to travel and come and go as you please. Not being present same freedom you have.

It's is not for the sake of guilt it's it's for a call to solidarity is to wake us up to reality. I get the emails from Joanna I get the emails from friends in India. I get the emails from from others in the Middle East different persecuted parts of the country. I get those I I I hear these things on a regular basis for decades. When I started reading about the persecuted church in the old one would've been late 80s early 90s I started to read a lot about the persecuted church since I began to travel and as I began to meet people who'd been persecuted for their faith, including returns to be the one brought that the stories just became deeply embedded in me and semiconsciousness of carried ever since. Even though I live here in America.

Like most of you listening and watching fact is this is reality and this is part of our calling in the little opposition that I get you know that the hate mail.

The death wishes the death threats that the few times Wright had a risk my life preaching the gospel, the protested meetings that I've done these tiny tiny little things in comparison with our brothers and sisters go through their constant reminder to me that that there is real persecution, severe persecution taking place in other parts the world. And yes, it's true that in many of the most persecuted places the church is growing.

Nonetheless, and one day we'll get to hear the story of the miraculous preservation of the church in North Korea underground through terrible horrific suffering and you look up. I imagine you're like me when you read the stories we read the stories about persecuted believers when you read about imprisonment, torture and starvation DEPRIVATION. Wonder can I handle it. Can I endure it in the simple answers assume no assume no because the conditions are different than anything we've known and and people know the exquisite ways to torture bring someone to the end of themselves. The lesson is strength that a weakness. The lesson is to say God I'm relying on you are relying on your grace and we can myself but to the core of my BMR are you and be faithful to Vanessa take away for each of us now that wherever you are.

You might feel weak, you might feel fearful, you might feel intimidated even though it's not with a gun to her head. There other forms of intimidation and there are there are Christian leaders, a member meeting with with brother Yoon the heavenly man as is known of and and talking to his terrible sufferings in China and tortured.

We talked about what what we go through here.

Americans of of a different sort of surreal spiritual warfare and even a lot of the attack comes from brothers and sisters within the body, which is the most mind-boggling thing of all.

Submit that he mentioned to us so there is real warfare was not what others are suffering.

But let's be strengthened by their suffering. Let's learn the same lesson strength and weakness. God's power demonstrated not whoever you are, wherever you are right now say God this YM not a superstar.

I'm maybe you're the type that likes to hide in the back and doesn't want to be in front be like being in the front, but don't have the courage to be in the front of the gospel you go to God CRC Lord and we can myself that I'm strong and you I'm strong in the power of your might. And by your grace on stand strong and be your witness and shine for you.

So here I am, send me use where you do is we transition in the next segment over to an interview that I recorded oh over a week ago with a pastor from Pakistan visiting in the states I came to meet with me and talking praying.

When was your city want one record so we don't show his picture. I don't give you his name for obvious reasons. Remember, Pakistan's number five on the open doors list of most persecuted countries.

The world most persecution of Christian hear firsthand what was happening.

Pakistan come back lives in an error on the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice is more cultural and spiritual revolution of year again is Dr. Michael Brown friends, this is Michael Brown and I urge you listen very carefully to his neck segments today on the line of fire which were hear firsthand is something that we do not hear much in the West, but we must hear it, especially in the church and I encourage you to share this broadcast widely.

I cannot give names I cannot give cities only tell you that I have in studio with me. A pastor from Pakistan. If we openly share his identity he could put him in danger he could put his family endanger his congregation in danger. Some simply telling you that I'm speaking with a pastor from Pakistan.

At the same time.

If you want to find out more. There is a book written by a brother that I have gotten to know in the past and I was able to endorse this book. It's called Christian tears of Pakistan Christian tears of Pakistan falsely accused under blasphemy law, 295 BC the brother sitting with me here can verify the information in this book is true. So pastor thanks so much for joining us today on the line of fire. I'm so honored to be here. Dr. Michael Brown thank you so much what you what you are very welcome. So you are Christian living within Pakistan which is a Muslim country. What percentage of the countries Christian actually be VFT percent in Pakistan and 97% of Muslims in Pakistan and what's what's life like for true Christians to someone who may come from a Christian family and their background, but from people who are truly Christians do they have liberty to practice their faith to do within you the same essay Christians in America to Pakistan is a very different country. Some people think maybe Bussey petition is only from the state. We have persecution but that persecution is not from the state but from the people, religious people and then something happened mauled rise and the attack on Christian justice and hoses and they try to persecute Christians art so there's an ongoing reality that there can be hostility from the Muslim populace towards towards Christians.

How how common is it that Christians in Pakistan and the local communities are being persecuted at you problem in Pakistan is that it is unlawful 95 blasphemy law 95 BC blasphemy law under this slow.

Many Christians have been persecuted, targeted and discriminated and killed and many in present already and to start this under this law, Christians are being persecuted unlocked everywhere in Pakistan and so so the laws call the blasphemy law again what this pastor is talking about. You can read about in this book written by Brother on mere about this very thing, get it online. A road endorsement for this when it came out so the blasphemy law would say that if you blaspheme the Prophet Mohammed. You speak against the Koran. You can then be punished by law or the populace might just rise up against you. Is it common that Christians go around blaspheming in the eyes of Muslims attacking Mohammed a technocrat or is this just a false accusation. These are all false secular accusations because just you imagine VFT percent and 97% of Muslims whole Christian courtesy any thing against Islam, and I believe that this is not a light way we can, or we can glorify Jesus Christ by speaking against property, the prophet of Islam" on so no commission does that. But it is just a bid… Galatians so the local community. Let's say you're just having a dispute with some of the business dispute annually and you decide you want to hurt this Christian or whatever the reason is. Maybe you're a Muslim leader and you see that some Muslims are converting in and becoming Christians of so you accuse someone of Islam to the courts act fairly and in local communities to the courts act fairly, or is there kind of a mob rule with times mob rule directly but because sometime court is also threatened and scared by the mob because mob justice is very common in Pakistan and in many Christians. They had been there hoses had been burned because of that mob and bullies was just unable to protect them.

So you even if they wanted to. The mob can scare judges, police, and then in many cases you have Muslims in the courts that are gonna be sympathetic to the Muslim position is that true yeah that's true. So give an example of of when this has happened. Maybe something you seem with your own eyes are as happened to a friend or colleague in another city example of of some accused on the blasphemy law and what's happened then was a commission woman Oscar Beebe. She was in prison for manias and she was accused that she has committed blasphemy against the prophet ice prophet of Islam, and should, as she hugged Gaius was in court lower court and Haida Cordillera failed to give her justice.

Then finally, maybe organizations had helped her to go to big carcass to Hayek Supreme Court from their she was released in 2019. But she most persecuted just there in Pakistan because she was Christian. She didn't commit any blasphemy against prophet of Islam. So nine years in prison based on false accusations but kind of powerless to to fight back. And in this book that Amir wrote called Christian tears of Pakistan as as a pastor.

How do you relate to that title Christian tears of Pakistan and and and what should believers in in the West be doing and thinking about this at 2019.

I told I decided to write this book because one friend Megan friend. He just encouraged me to do this because Voigt doesn't know what is exactly happening in Pakistan so in Pakistan since the Christian the Kenner would do anything they cannot speak anything because we have just all depend under constant threat. We cannot say that it is the wrong thing is happening to us. We don't have voice so that's what idled this Christian B is a Pakistan beacon only cry, but we cannot say and do anything. This persecution falsely accused of false accusations. As with that's why these are our fears. Sometime it is ready.

Funny Pakistani Muslim are Bugs Bunny people they don't accept us because we are Christians, and sometime in the Voigt been betrayal of goal. Voigt doesn't accept us because we are Christian of you Pakistani get hoarding Pakistani possible that some of the think maybe all Pakistan is a Muslim, so it is ready student situation and that was like no V have problem from the viable NW because we are Bugs Bunny rehab problem in Pakistan because we are Christians. So I will Degrasse devoted please you must understand that hold your brothers and sisters going to in Pakistan and different countries just because they are conditioned to believe in Jesus Christ yeah and and friends again. I'm speaking in very vague terms.

We we've got a a book with a pseudonym for the for the author reducing pastor were not giving details because it's that serious big because we can't simply get on social media with a picture together and send it out and shouted out say this was happening without endangering people's lives and and you think of the sense of frustration.

Okay, we lean on the Lord the church is always been persecuted through history.

We understand that but when your brothers and sisters around the world that do have voices that do have funds that do have platforms don't say anything, don't do anything here you go folks and we were standing for Jesus in the midst of tremendous pressure, difficulty were standing for Jesus.

We just won our brothers and sisters to stand with us to pray and to help get this this message out brother. What about the economic situation of Christians in Pakistan or there roles jobs that they end up getting assigned to that or for the poor classes. Is there any type of of caste system or is is is that something of the past. I am truly sorry to say that in Pakistan we love bugs in the clinicians we love Pakistan. No commission has been involved in that it is him at all so mutely absolutely accurate Christians in Pakistan but problem clinicians the don't get good jobs, mostly annoyed is vended is add of jobs on the newspaper. It is all visiting when it comes to cleaning job. It is for Christians the most of the clinicians got cleaning job.

They have students that sweeping streams they are cleaning bathrooms and all the bad jobs up for Christians and been a legal newspaper that this job is only for clinicians. It broke my heart. It breaks my heart all the time so commission the economic situation is that Lily bad and I believe that the clinicians conditions are poor because because that Christians because they believe in Jesus Christ, desolate meet you discriminate a Christian cannot start a business Christian cannot open his assessment because no Muslim would go to Christian restaurant eat their because the hit Christians because Christians are just like most class people that just as Hindus they were used to hit from Muslims embossed no via fishing in Pakistan because I think we Christians are from mostly from the developed people are untouchable people then bugs him and be happy when one country so that thing is still going on and you out as you asked me about cost impotently.

He said that there is no caste system in Pakistan, but then be then we look it is happening there. This guest system because Levy at the people hid from us by via that because your Christians. That is some kind of a system in Pakistan be a human being. Yet you know in in in India. It was widely thought that the doll eats the untouchables were the other. The main ones that converted to Christianity. So it's it's a poor man's religion from the West and then removing massive efforts now through bribery and other things know it's giving them money while we want to convert back to Hinduism.

That's that's in India but you still have the caste system much more embedded.

There so under Islam. You don't have the same type of caste system, but you have the it's locked in place and in these different ways. So you're saying that that literally their jobs and it says this is for Christian there were these you can be a street sweeper only Christians should apply for this. Conversely, the higher level jobs. Christians don't bother applying yet there are few jobs maybe some educated clinicians. The cat got get above that of any future Onset consenting is this nucleus and get a new president of Pakistan.

No Christian can be by Mr. Pakistan and not is no Christian can be the chief of Ottoman stuff in Pakistan because of Christian so is is that is that under the law, or is that just the customer know it has become Constitution in Pakistan. Yeah, this part of constitution right now.

Look, a Muslim country. Any any country, any government can choose to do what it does. These are the realities so here check out this book Christian tears of Pakistan, it will detail things.

It will tell you exactly what's happening legally at the very least it will inform you so that you can pray and maybe there's more that you can do. Maybe you can help with other organizations that stay with the persecuted church maybe there other tangible steps that you could take we come back.

I want to talk about something terribly distressing which is Christian girls teenagers being kidnapped by Muslim men forcibly converted rate of return into their lives happening daily basis.

Pakistan stay right here right that number by Expo light a fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown of your voice and more cultural and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. He friends I'm speaking today they pastor Pakistan met him and he was in the states. A few years back when not using real names on the menu. Details of churches of anything else.

Cities simply because it's too volatile. There could be people that decide to take action against my brother he's written a book using a pseudonym so not using his real name is called Christian tears of Pakistan. I encourage you to check the book out. Read it for yourself up pastor you you emailed me a few months back, heartbroken. You sent me pictures of young lady who was singing in your church choir Christian teenager menu told me that she had been kidnapped by Muslims. Tell me what happened to her until it was happening on the water level in your country, not she, she was my just remembered" a member as well and when she came poor early morning. She was given and a Muslim guy and after we tried to find her but after one week.

Police informed us that she presented in quote with that guy and now she is Muslim, so sorry we cannot do anything because he is already converted so then somebody is converted to Islam. Nobody can touch and do anything to hunt and then we tried to bring her back. We vent to hide a coat and and in the higher court also same thing happen and the outfield to get her back so that the suspect this is going on. Unlocking Pakistan 25 bun guy told me it is not. Is this news is not from Christians. This news from Muslim magazine monthly magazine fiddled with it or this every month.

25 protect the Christian goes on kidnapped and raped and can article in this conflict of interest lump every month. So these clinician goes out like 13 years old go 14 years old girls and €16 org so this is Lily said you were before the show talking to me with tears in your eyes about this young lady and this point no wait it to get her back. Why is it that they so quickly say we've converted to Islam.

What underwent pressure how does this happen problem with. I always have discretion. She's not conflicted because he was going amused by Islam.

She was inspired by Islam hole in one, not two days on one week someone can be impressed and Jen.

His religion on cartilage and so then I have and will question if she is conflicted, but you don't they cut as your daughter as your system by only life because they want to use on abuse those goes for sex so that's that's led they can wear them. So in other words, once the girl is is raped, then it's very difficult for her to just go on with normal life as she threatened if she tries to leave what would happen to her family if she would leave Islam. She would be killed because every visit she would be in for because guiding them.

She is Muslim know if you go back. She is, she will become infidel if she believed would go back to family. She would be killed by anyone and that would be less of a soft Islam getting up in an infidel is awesomeness of Islam and what would there be threats to her family definitely family would be taken as it right so if you're Muslim in Pakistan, some insurers the face with futuristic Christian faith, you begin to study. Look at it.

You're convinced that Jesus is really the Savior and Lord, and you say I want to leave Islam want to convert to Christianity baptized your you're saying that family members could kill have that person put to death, or they could be accused under the law and put to death. Yeah, definitely. It can happen. And it would happen.

Actually that cement people and talk to confess publicly if it so another words that they come to faith, but it's secret because they know if they go public will be killed.given that they can lose their status and it can be killed and you're not. You're not exaggerating. These are real realities in Pakistan.

That's what I have grown up seeing all these things in my country right right so born and raised in Pakistan as as a Christian and many many Christians in Pakistan have the less, they must seek which is the wood would be equivalent to Mysia Messiah. So it's just part of your family heritage or, marked like that as well and I definitely have ignition be used the last word is messy, just like I know what is the Elaine must see is identification that is Christian got it. Got it so how is the church growing then mechanical in Pakistan.

The Christians are largely economically oppressed, you have Christian girls being kidnapped from Muslim publicly converts the person with the lease lose their status.

It was be put to death of is the church growing as the church prospering in any way. I don't II don't I would say that Christians even be a prosecutor and even we are going through difficult time, but we have not ready to announce our faith be conditions out of Betty conform to form another fit of faith to be bored. Never compromise on our faith. I believe that that really helps Muslim to understand that whole whole. Much love the how much beloved love of Jesus Christ, and out of it and in 20 lusty at 2020 managed medical had identical shutdown in Pakistan and be tied to have Muslims and Christians with food and we gave 180,000 m for two months and in different areas of Pakistan, and I'm sure many people like Dustin blast and they knew that whole missions are different than their imams and mollusks because Chester was there to help them so that helps them but problem is that the cannot confess publicly the cannot accept Jesus publicly and say that a canal I'm Christian you so up I got a couple questions a few years ago there was a terrible terrorist attack within Pakistan.

So terrorist attacking his own people of bomb went off in a park with children and there are many Christians involved therein and I went on social media and was talking about this fact that Christians were being targeted and others came on and they seem to be fairly nominal Christians in in more wealthy areas and they said there's a persecution we have complete freedom of religion here. I know what you're talking about you.

This is not real at all and and and were shocked by what happened but we are no we all have our religious freedom here in Pakistan and they were there were all speaking the same way.

They were very angry with what I was saying, of course, I know the details for Pakistan for many many years and read the reports of persecuted church there and know some of it first hand stories what you say when you hear that they said no it's fine. We are all Christians, Muslims all work together. Everything's fine.

There's no persecution is known equality. Does that happen in some parts of Pakistan.

Or maybe with more nominal Christians and were nominal Muslims. Why would you explain it. I would sit I'm really I'm very honest to say that government definitely did try to protect us, but still the cannot do anything when mob is there mold justice is there but then Christians, nominal conditions, the comment to say that we don't have any problem that's not true at all. You did daughter to be taken then they would know that what happened is that the bus persecution of not exactly exactly and I have. I've had some colleagues who've gone over to Pakistan and they preached in big open air meetings with thousands of people and they've come back and said hey I was able to go in and and do that. Is it that the government doesn't mind a Christian evangelist coming in preaching to Christians or is that just a show to try to make things look good. I would say hell yeah because the government as a set government to try to protect us and then allow people to go there and please, and sometime it is shoe as well as you set yeah but so there is certain freedom, but the the daily underlying situation is very challenging. There was a professor that I met a Pakistani professor, the famous scholar in United States art flights were delayed for many hours in Chicago. One day we were talking and he told me that his wife was finishing a book called waiting to die as a Pakistani woman in and they were Muslims themselves basically about the plight of Christians in Pakistan and the hopelessness of the future and he thought it was important that the world knew about that soaks my brother. Aside from folks reading the book Christian tears of Pakistan that will open their eyes more. What would you like to say to Christian special in America but listening, watching from around the world.

What would you like to say to them, definitely. I would ask them. Please pray for Pakistani Christians so that the it is difficult to be a Christian in Pakistan but we can go to all the prosecution and my message for the blood and American brothers insisted is this persecution is coming in American all of the vote. As I just get ready to be persecuted for the plug that the name of the second Jesus sake because it's not easy, and if we have just sitting idle enemy of thinking that it will not happen to us.

Maybe you're wrong. So just be have to be that he professed the prosecution of yellow persecution of fishing persecution did it would happen him as an and in future. Assume desolate.

It is time for the vote to pay for the persecuted Christian brothers and sisters and all of them or all of them on special in Pakistan has been your friends. It's the very least we could do is pray and then we could ask Adriana hearts together as you heard after nine years of imprisonment on false charges. This woman was released back to her family and that was with the help of prayer and outside advocacy so that there are things that can be done in their ministries, like open doors and others that that work was persecuted church was the mortise and others that that work with persecuted church around the world.

You can help in different ways. If you want to make a direct contribution to help the work that my brother is doing in Pakistan again. I can't tell you where I can tell you what they're working on, but they are in the midst of what could be a very important project that will be a great testimony in the region like to help financially. Just designating give could ask Erica Brown.org, click donate, but designated the Pakistani church. 100% of your gift will go directly important project they're working on at some point be able to put you in direct contact so that you can see firsthand the gifts like that if you want to help financially as Dr. Brown.org donate and then designated for the Pakistani church 100% of those gifts without exception directly at some point be able to announce strong in the Lord friends is worth the another program powered by the Truth Network