Best of Broadcast: Dr. Hugh Ross Talks About the Creator and the Cosmos

The following is a prerecorded program you're listening to a special best of broadcast today get a fascinating interview today with astronomer Ross about the creator and the cosmos stage for the line of fire, your host, activist, author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience and president of fire school of Ministry get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown to the line of fire.

It's it's always fascinating friends to step back and look at the universe that God has created to step back and learn about the creator because of the creation and remember as a kid going to a planetarium. Maybe you've done that and you sit down and and the ceiling with returning to the University look out to see the galaxies and while amazing resources fascination.

We haven't some years back. Nancy and I were watching as many videos as we could, talking about the universe the vastness of the subject and and you are trying to get a handle on the size of the but of course the brain breaks down, it just doesn't work.

It's too big it's too magnificent stew beyond us so I love to have the opportunity to talk to my colleague Dr. you Ross, founder and president of reasons to believe he is an astronomer and he is a committed follower of Jesus, so he brings together those two wonderful qualities of having scientific understanding of the universe is much as we can is finite human beings. And yet believing in and personally worshiping and following the God who made the universe and he has a brand-new book out the creator and the cosmos. How one astronomers investigations into both the cosmos and the Bible revealed him a more wondrous personal God. Then he could've ever imagined.

So without further ado, Dr. Ross, great to have you back with us on the line of fire providing why did you write this book of the many books you've written so far. What is it that prompted you to write this book, which seems almost like a summary of your life journey up to now all correct. Your workers are like a mobile version 25 years ago. But bringing out new revision number. Typical print Job but the more you study the record of nature are more evident by her natural antiworker God and the fourth edition of DirecTV new page of the content become electrical ureters, Benedict Logan of new discovery in astronomy and physics that are strongly established a Christian. The reliability of the Bible about the universe now is one works in this field regularly. You don't just to Christian ministry. You and your team. Reasons to believe.

Stay up-to-date with what's happening in scientific literature. Would you say that it's become increasingly difficult to deny the creator of the universe with the more scientific evidence that we have here. During one of the reader about proper nutrition order to make white.

Poor Dr. believer are now appearing nonempirical argument and very good worldview. The reason is that the empirical evidence is now overwhelming that there must be God, the God of the Bible behind creating and defining the universe for benefit of appealing to think, but can't measure.

They may be in the region but ignorant for might be something weird going on that allows both overturn everything we know and understand about the universe. It's interesting we posted something, ask Dr. Brown Facebook page about God, the creator and someone who is a rocket scientist and AC is very friendly in Australia responded with imagined this and went into a whole multi-verse arguments in multiple universes, etc. etc. and and I sent the quote to a friend by the medical doctor whose post I had put on the Facebook page that prompted this response and he immediately said notice the opening word. Imagine that. So that's what you're saying that to just look at scientific fact which is what scientists are supposed to do because the facts point to creator there now having to speculate beyond the facts or the whole point.

We know what crew did not prepare. Proofread human form, never have absolute proof for anything we know something is particularly true if we believe that the more we learn about the subject stronger become evident. But in fact true that happened at a rate of a factor of a thousand times per month. You can be assured that are true metric happening with the fine-tuning design evident liberty increasing outboard universe, our galaxy and our planet are all for a good thing increasing at a rate of about a factor of a filed complaint about why I sure would skeptic are not persuaded today .5 months and which way the evidence goes. Is this the kind of thing that is trickling its way down into universities into college campuses into textbooks that kids are using in school, or is there a and an absolute resistance to acknowledge these things.

Trickling down to the graduate economy level trickle-down part about going to take a while before down.

Undergraduate client and out of the lay public unit one redirect brought the book out of Morgan.

Astronomers need to know about bumping the general public to be aware of the vacant deal with a lot of the challenges that are being bandied about you and I appreciate your other books of yours that you brought up to date are supplemented and I never looking at one of them about days of creation. I thought I have this book and I looked at the one I was sent. I thought this is a much fatter book the same as creator and cosmos that that which is written now building on it's not that you have to go back and correct things.

It's now you have far more evidence to support, which is written, so give us an example. Let's say you're talking to someone that's that's a serious skeptic there not a marker. There is seriously looking at evidence they really question a personal God and and how we can really know if there's a creator. So what are some of the most striking are perhaps the most striking single example you give that you've added to your book, the creator of the cosmos or white document in the book now entered your vision, and cosmology were now making measurements of one particular preclusion or better and to give an example.

The Bible talks about our universe come from the beginning. I will continue and permit beginning under laws of physics that are held constant, or one of the log of appropriate quality.

K any committee and under that pervasive logic to take a gave effect of law of thermodynamics, but colder and colder, bigger and bigger and so using a Google statement knowing the age of the universe we can come up with a biblically predicted cooling curve for the universe and was new in the past few years.

Across America come up with vision measurement of a past temperature state of universe they donated over 13 different Epoque.

I want to show you the book of the biblically predicted cooling curve for the universe over the entire history and overlapping that actual measurement that we astronomers made be the perfect fit between the measurement of what the Bible predicts when you see the Bible predicts will be predicting this all. For example, you feed your gateway to the nightmare or speak about God expanding universe (Jeremiah and Joe Berger 11.5 or talked about the beginning of the universe by Jeremiah 33 declared that God doesn't change proof that he doesn't change look at the log of the government.

Evidently they don't change. It doesn't change.

Ecclesiastes about the pervasive logic K Romans chapter 8 to 12 of the entire universe I've been subject to pervasive logic K so that's where we can get be big bang cosmology and electrolyte friend but astronomy and not.Albert Einstein or George or Maitre came up with the Big Bang model of universe that actually find it page of the Old Testament ever written more than 2000 years ago for thousands of years, the Bible, the holy book of philosophy, theology, or by that that we live in.

Continue expanding universe. You know, there's this famous story of Robert Johnstone's book astronomer finds God and in the picture that's painted is the astronomer, climbs to the top of the mountain of knowledge and finds it diligent sitting up there with his Bible, but that's pretty much what you're saying and that even the idea of the law operate the universe operating on six principles that Einstein said it could be could be observable and and that there is mathematical precision to it could possibly be argued that just over the period of the billions of years that these laws and principles evolved and that it was just kind of a necessity. The things came together like this something we astronomers can directly observe farther away we look harder back in time. What I document in the book that we've made observation regarding galaxy far away 13 billion light years, and we measured the laws of physics and the specter of everything from the doctor about law. The measure to be identical to the laws of physics and measurable oratory being quite doubtful but demonstrate that the typical statement allotment could go change. Our measurements show that what the Bible for thousands of years ago is indeed correct. Extraordinary extraordinary and Stephen Hawking's brilliant physicist, now deceased, hopefully in his last moments turn to the Lord.

Only God knows, but Stephen Hawking said once made a statement for me is a totally nonscientific person. I was baffled by, and John Lennox a great scientific thinker took issue with it. Again, for I knew there must be more to it because of Hawking's brilliance, but he basically said that that the universe was created out of nothing, but that the law of gravity. Somehow existed. I could make head or tail of that someone so brilliant make a statement like that while I devote all of chapter 12 of the book, or even arcing research over lifetime and the philosophical and theological implications about what he discovered. Matter fact were now giving that chapter waited for free go to reason.org black fee you can get the old checker for free and yelled for future Jupiter wrote even arcing about Facebook page that got your lecture several times that Caltech quite an interesting fellow. Yet he kept making references to things like gravity creating universe or you would think maybe the universe couldn't have just one dimension of time, but the equipment are two dimensions of time and what I explained in the crater because most of what you doing and what you feel in Romans chapter 1 he was attributing characteristics of God and attaching them to the universe.

So if you jump in here to find universe, thereby worshiping the creation of the creator. I will be right back with Ross will make sure you know how to get that chapter 3 and then from there the rest of the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice is more cultural and spiritual revolution there again is Dr. Michael Brown, I just tweeted this out take advantage of this updated edition of Dr. Ross's classic work, the creator and the cosmos now has a chapter is devoted entirely to the work of Dr. Stephen Hawking's just deceased. You can get that chapter for free go to reasons.org/C see reasons.org/C see I just tweeted that out. Take advantage of that and of course get the whole book for yourself so Dr. Ross you were saying before the break that with Stephen Hawkins with all of his brilliance did in his nonbelief in a God who created the universe thereby attributed qualities of deity to the universe itself.

Can you unpack that for us all what he meant in good repair work working years ago working dream cargo are worried basically. Yet the universe is constrained by time but look old, but in addition to real-time imaginary time mathematically that the equivalent of two different dimensions of time and at the property that the creator what he actually admitted in a brief history of time. All the measurement and observation: the universe and everything in it is constrained or one dimension of time to dimensions of time.

There is no boundary to the universe evident no boundary but need and we have for God to create it about the problem and universe ready Doug have only one different time and really is a need for someone to create that dimension of time and ironically Stephen Hawking along with Roger Penrose for the first time. There must be a beginning time and therefore agent be on time to create and she mentioned that speaking of the H&P on time, who had to create time. Therefore, the fact that the universe exists indicates that there is creator me there. There is ultimately no way around it. When you have the facts and the signs in front of you. If if I'm talking to a nonbeliever and they have questions about these things is your book the crater in the cosmos. Something I could give to that person would it help them in their journey directly of all the books written over the years and back.

The crater called mode brought more people to faith in Jesus Christ than any other intra-Christian giving a book away trigger non-Christian friend awesome like friends again to get the chapter on Stephen Hawking go to reasons.org/C see you can read that. Find out more about the book there and then explore the website. Reasons to believe you'll find different levels of entry. If you're a seeker.

If you're a believer with questions for an adult.

Your child is all kinds of material there are new articles being added on weekly, sometimes daily basis. Dr. Ross, what would you say is the toughest naturalistic objection to God be the creator of the cosmos. What's the most challenging thing that you've had to face in and what your answer to all, typically or it will all work fine.

Going evident to prevent the log. What we did not gravity.

What we didn't have determined to be good, not electromagnetic, strong and weak nuclear for one of the defined dimensions are radically different and whenever that happens, my responsive old, you must be talking about the angelic realm at the realm of very different log different dimension against what the rental range you are relevant complex nature of white man fine.

Yet God could have done it differently with different log. Either way, fine. And if any of your list. What actually brought out the debate. I didn't, but of the international to pick the fighting with the article, thing, or about what the object of our debate yet you're talking people are that the yes no question fine.

The maker operable at the very end of the debate is a member of your Paul told nothing while develop a product statement coming from a beating that there is no God. We human purpose. No value.

No, Stephanie are all cold. Yeah, I don't see any way around that to me with just neurons firing any sense of purpose or destiny is.

Is this a figment of her own imagination if if we are just walking Carmen or whatever have you and in and in the aftermath of these debates ever had interactions with some of the scientists, skeptics, atheists, where they they've opened up and it admitted that the the evidence against them or it's it's more philosophical thing for them or they just don't want to make the jump yet to happen after that international Arctic opportunity audiobook over 780.

From around the world directly for more than three hours talking to individually regrouped after work and one thing they told me the first time in your life ever credible by the Christian faith. We thought we owned because you believer.

I went on to talk about everything else except we thought we owned the company had one but I made it observation, could you know I think you're all we can just found a brand-new evident for my Christian faith.

One of the all of your speaker focused on the God of the Bible and what all the other God giving a note of the hash that they all were about the nonexistent of the God of the Bible you're really working the God of the Bible.

Good big to be treating that God like to do the great pumpkin. The passion told me you really do believe the don't like all I got almost every one of them was. Not that we hate the God of the Bible that we buy all our many began to tell the story about a review your counter Christian life are people who thought they thought were Christian but you showed me and when you do get all the evidence of your Christian faith. You need to be ready with the compassion of the people for the partnership yet absolutely what I found interesting was some ACS is that they're so passionate about justice and so believed in the style that was supposed to be just and fair in here and and hearing your prayers that when they had a major spiritual disappointment.

They just threw everything out so it wasn't based innocent hostility towards God, but on a sense of disappointment and that that leads me back to where he started. In reading the description of the book, but I want to end here this for you has been over the years writing the book and now updating with 80 more pages this for you has been an ongoing discovery of the wonders of the God we serve. So what have you learn for yourself about God.

Over the years working on this book.

Now updating it in the fourth edition there were literally everything you every component of your every event and universe. Wayne a critical role in making possible the redemption of billions of a human being at all for five Ford Galaxy 54 planet, cupping millions of species of life on planet Earth and realign the context of God's goal of redeeming billions of human beings under him felt each one played the role of being evident for fine-tuning divine really become pervasive part of your contract not just of what God needs you to make a home for what he could do for billions of a chemical loving the relationship for the rest of eternity.

So social you. This is not just a matter of scientific evidence the existence of God, but the revelation into the character of of God.

This maybe a question can answer for three hours but we got about two minutes left.

How does this give you revelation of God being our heavenly father always showed me the degree to which she log me back. I could hear her created for you start while he went to all that effort in order for life operable care for me a great deal and realizing that the age of the universe. Universe treatment might be old or younger might be possible part of another variety and just looking at the galaxies and realizing only one galaxy like operable, realizing that every one of the asteroid belt fulfilled the role in making like operable. God must care for me a great deal but give me the confidence that he's going to be Britney work with liberty every moment of my wife which allowed me to come out and basically okay I walking about auditorium. Nobody were angry about walking alone, the creator of the universe walking about auditorium pavement confidence to be an instrument in the current situation credible and just as you speak.

I am sitting here drinking this and it's it's ministering to me as well as all of our listeners and viewers friends. If you've never visited the website reasons.org reasons to believe reasons.org check it out today you will be enriched sender friends there that don't yet believe in the God that we know and love them while you're there, go over its reasons.org/CC/CC go there, get the free chapter on Dr. Stephen Hawking and then with that. I'm sure you want to get the whole book, the creator and the cosmos. Dr. Ross.

As always, it's a delight to speak to God's blessing on you and the whole team regular all right friends we come back to change gears. Another very interesting discussion with James Robison about working with people that are different than you without getting flaky and sloppy do it gives the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice is more cultural and spiritual revolution there again. Dr. Michael Brown well on the farm.

I with you today. Hate go to the stream.org stream.org. I got a brand-new article up there today are people born transgendered. Trust me, you'll want to know the information it's in their also an article I read with great fascination and interest by Rachel Alexander on stream.org run on the homepage today about the Las Vegas massacre asking very carefully. Is there evidence real evidence that there is a cover-up a conspiracy to cover up evidence as to what actually happened.

It's a pretty unnerving thing to read@stream.org it's my joy to speak with founder and publisher of the stream, James Robison and James been a couple weeks but great to have you back on with us today to be with microwaves and your always appreciate what you share. Despite representing God's truth and love are appreciated well from the Hartman were in this together right so so here's a big question, and he goes back to advice that that Billy Graham gave you many years ago in your own ministry to spend time with the Christians that you were taught to avoid now. On the one having no Scripture tells us to avoid false teachers and to mark heretics at the same time we know the Scriptures adjuster to preserve the unity of the body so so how do we spend time with believers that we been taught to avoid and maybe get past some stereotypes and misconceptions without just getting sloppy and thinking anything goes all right disorder. Patient preserved to preserve unity of spirit upon spirit which will enter Terry like they did this power have unconditional love. Also compromised spirit. You know what happens today disagree Dr. it seems like we have a spirit of course prevailing five we disagree on. We just can't seem to break which is split we will start another tribe, another group, but we just get away from anything but family is not single marriages, single family member have some very serious disagreements about retention always start sometimes very serious, but to divorce is one of the most damaging practices are believed in the church that I don't know very many people that are Wrongly we may not find what we consider to be a pretty serious which we don't see the site out rather than having a patient to go and grow together to do what about what every domain is important. I cannot stop loving people just because I am wrong. Are there convinced I not likely necessarily outside of troops we just agreed to let peace by preserve the unity of the Spirit on if you and I have a serious series disagree. I don't think you could do Dr. stop me from very sincere real well and I would also have been spirit where we disagree.

I would ask the Lord to show if I'm wrong correctly help us reach of it just to make sound, blackberry, effective way for couples to get along with payment to get all I read so many things that I think my current website. This shot of the but I don't automatically pick a side, I don't start work night label from an individual to try to discredit him or minimize their I immediately start praying for understanding pray for an opportunity and when I got to run out of people question some of it I don't understand exactly what's going on totally that there dressing in a way that sounds like a car, you know, one of the greatest microburst downtrend right now. August top Dr. Mann is being unjust to critically say a lot of things, but it big bear meditating out right but we don't have to decide where part I'm not I would do my best to be a peacemaker and preserve the unity of the spirit which we were born on the police. Pete and the fact that you pray for the person. Sometimes we forget to join their yet and that we then pray for ourselves. Maybe we have the blind spot or maybe both of us have blind spots. Things that we tend to to not do it many years ago there was a brother with a major media ministry who was attacking meetings. I was part of the Brownsville revival and I was going to be having a debate with him and I called our student body to pray for him, but in such a way that the prayers were positive prayers and I would pray the same thing for a hand that I pray for myself that were wherever I was doing God's will and speaking as well that he would give increase and where I was.

Not doing as well speak as well that he would bring pruning and after the debate. We ended up having a great time of reconciliation together. He then came and spoke to a student body when he walked in he was given a standing ovation which floored him, but the students never heard a negative word about him as they prayed for him in a constructive way. They knew he opposed were doing, but there was never any hostility in the way we Prater we are right.

He's wrong was rather here's a brother we're brothers and sisters. Lord bless your people together.

I think sometimes that we have this whole divorce thing, perhaps because of insecurity in our own position. It could that be true. I think what you are exactly what it will start preserving the spirit.

It worked. I think we will all my perspective, but just practice it.just preach action realized by people would be impacted… But Jesus right. The transforming power of his truth that is redemptive work of our lives that we don't have a single shot of single dilemma that we could not effectively and successfully address and we could do it in short, the solution to the problems in the world are found in the transforming power of the got and impact of bad kingdom of everyone about you just gave an I tried to give it tell me this is where I'm going.

People may want to take cheap shots in the world what you are not many people psychically) not taking cheap shots at and you know something of a might start from a starting MasterCard all change if I'll try to learn from one of the greatest things to start learning from his start learning from the people to criticize. We only love your enemies, I can teach you the truth, not in the best way necessary.

I'm going to. And I will not change it interesting that this this spirit seems to disarm even the harshest, yet it is this true you know I am on one occasion when I when I sat down with this this one brother who was very critical of us. We said let's spend a few hours together and my perception is been that he had really been attacking me and coming against us in unfair ways will be sat down to talk. The first question I asked him was how have I failed you in our relationship and he just wanted me to know that he's a very sincere believer, and that there lots of false attacks against him. Think basically that the wall between us went down in a matter of seconds. Then there was a lot to talk about and talk through it just like in a husband-wife relationship. Once we put down our defenses and once we don't just walk in such pride and now I'm I'm concerned about the other person. Normally, once you get there. You've already opened up a massive door of communication.

So it comes down to do. I love my neighbor including the neighbor that I differ with marriage is treated like church leaders and church members.

Every marriage ordered to something a mass I want to be a part of correcting and inspiring the correction of it and I'm determined to live that out, I'm not going to go somewhere else to try to bring everybody else I'm wrong, what I believe it try to show them the transforming power so that we can all continue to be soft clay yielded of Mohammed MasterCard continue to shape Christ. Let's keep in mind that even the pressure that practicums can still shape Christ and bankers got so everything that happened in our life… Use it correctly it will shape Christ in us, and that's the hope of his glory. Repeat this or yeah I remember the first piece of hate mail I got ministry decades ago someone gave it to me in our book table. Mrs. decades and decades back and I brought it home and I said to Nancy.

I can believe what this person said it's crazy and I started and I and I was really stress is no, maybe there's some truth in it. I said what are you talking about the guys off the defenses so I know I know but maybe there's some true Senate select that you have to immediately then put the pride down and say okay, maybe I can maybe there is something that I could learn from this and James once and you've done now is really seek to get God's heart and speak to the nation's as a father because it's such a fatherless nation generation and you're doing that on your Facebook page, rev.

James Robison and then those are also posted on stream stream.org what's the last thing that you've talked to the nation about just this father's heart perspective drawings to Robert. & Regards McFadden and Robert and we talked about mentoring and mantle weekly focus on mentoring about weight this is our program. But while Eric Tate began on Craig Sperry's Ms. and it'll error several times, maybe many gods showed up really early it might, and they were asking about the mentoring affect their line and many others have been brought up time and I don't go out speaking to mentor. I go out and when I have a laptop it's father's that's really my heart overflowing and I will be upon my heart.

Father speak and he speaks as mentor is the one that speaks not only perhaps sometimes correction is really to shine through believe we are out of time. My dear brother.

Thank you again for joining us, exemplifying the message. It's the line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown your voice and more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown is Michael Brown the light talked to my friend and colleague James Robison and yet he really does walk in very supernatural, very deep love and and you know for fees if using your court. He's a friend.

So I want to talk to about this for a moment of about walking in love about being redemptive in the midst of differences we have so so look we have differences with some people who are of another faith when not of any faith the Ritz and atheist or agnostic or Buddhist or Muslim or Hindu. These are people who are completely outside of our sphere of faith.

We don't look at them as fellow believers we don't expect them to share our same belief system. We understand that, and yet if that person was our next-door neighbor. We love that person is herself. Yes, that would be our calling, we reach out to them would be kind to them. We do what we could to be good neighbors and thereby demonstrate the reality of our faith in God through our love for them and be genuinely good human beings so that they would be glad that we are their neighbors right that that would be the goal.

Now ultimately they may be uncomfortable because were believers and they are not, but our heart is we love them with me and I can have fellowship with them in terms of a deep spiritual bond that's looking to happen right but we can certainly be coworkers, friends, neighbors, and we should exemplify the spirit of Jesus and that what about people who claim to be followers of Jesus, but are heretical in their beliefs like Mormons were Jehovah's Witnesses or other groups like that.

Well, again, we treat them in a similar way we treat them as people outside of the faith we treat them as we would treat any other person who loves the Lord. Loving them as are self-seeking to be good neighbors, friends, coworkers, but we couldn't have fellowship with them. Nor could we work together for the gospel.

Now let's say there was a crisis in our neighborhood and something happened whereby everybody had a chipping together to try to help out a family that was destitute or some natural disaster hit in. There's an earthquake, and people buried under rubble.

What we all go running down together, atheist, Hindu, Buddhist, Jehovah's Witness Mormon born-again Christian, side-by-side, and try to pull the Rubloff people right. But if there was a prayer meeting that night praying for victims that are in the hospital. I can be part of a joint prayer meeting where once praying to their God or whatever I'm to pray with other believers so my spiritual activities are to be together with other believers and natural things we can work together on you know your food distribution. Okay, how can we work together as a neighborhood to help out those that are in need.

Great work together but ultimately gospel solutions, only to be found with fellow believers. Okay what about people of loose faith were not sure.

In other words, they seem to be believers.

They seem to be genuine. They seem to profess that they've come to faith in the God of the Bible, etc. but some of their beliefs are very different than ours. Why not get to know them, okay, pretty radical extreme idea.

Why not spend time together and find out what they really believe I just got a copy yesterday of my book the grace controversy which came out after hyper grace at the request of the publisher it shorter.

It's a popular version breaks things down to certain questions. This not take the place of hyper grace, just at a different book on the same subject just got a copy be translated into Indonesian so hyper. Grace is been translated into many languages it's been translated into finishing into Italian into German and into Dutch and into Indonesian, etc. now grace controversy also Indonesian on the triplets of the languages while I have very, very, very strong differences with hyper grace teachers.

Some of them call themselves hyper grace teacher some of them. This is how I categorize them based on them holding to certain fundamental beliefs and because of that I spent over two hours with pastor Joseph Prince over 15 months ago when I was in Singapore. Pastor Prince is the best known teacher worldwide that I would see teaches a message of hyper grace.

He wanted me to know areas that he emphasize that I would know were absolutely foundational to meet. In other words, his his face in the word of God's love for the word of God's love to win the lost to Jesus his belief that submission to the Lord Jesus is important and essential his belief that holiness is progressive, that you cannot get more righteous because you declared righteous in salvation, but you can get more holy. You can become holier as you grow in the Lord, which many of those who hold to hyper grace do not believe that they say that holiness is instantaneous. Just as righteousness is in any case, we work together. I wrote an article and then ascended to heaven we went back and forth on the wording saying these are the areas where we agree. We still have differences.

We still have areas of disagreement absolutely. I'm glad that my hyper grace but continues to get out. Make an impact be translated. I'm glad the grace controversy is out in hyper grace.

I call Joseph Prince many times, but you'll see in the book I quoted him as a brother you say why because according to everything.

Understand he is genuinely born again he holds to gospel fundamentals. He wants to see people truly saved and disciple and the differences that we have our differences with in the faith. There was nothing of the fundamental gospel.

To my knowledge that he denies and there are areas within the gospel within salvation were we have strong differences but in the book I quoted him as a brother and I also referenced testimonies of people whom I've heard from regularly through the years. Now who can positively transform by the message of grace that he preaches I've met them regularly people that I've known for years, said that they were really bogged down and struggled people that graduate from ministry school and served on the mission field, what was said yeah just that they didn't agree with everything he said maybe 20%, 30% to different with the 70 or 80% was liberating a life changing for them is really help them in their walk with the Lord. Somebody tweeted me one day. I'm not sure if I should get your book hyper grace. I got set free from alcoholism listening to Joseph Prince Sibley will be helped by the book will only build on the grace treason remove some error along the way, a Pastor Prince sent me many many testimonies of people delivered from all kinds of sexual immorality as a result of hearings, message elements, he says that the message you preach leads to holiness message. There is error in it that's can confuse people as well. But here's the point we can emphasize where we agree, not bad people jamming me to hell because I recognize him as a brother. So be it, fine, go, go ahead. I met his defender I'm not his apologist. We different.

I wrote the book hyper grace.

Okay, we differ. That being said, spending time together really help me better understand what he believed. Help me probe some issues with them.

Help us focus specifically on areas where we still differ with each other. My hope is that whenever he preaches and teaches that some of my differences with him would be in his his head as a sick man.

If you could just preach repentance more clearly lay these things that were clearly would be helpful.

You know, and whatever perspective he has what he does in his ministries between him and God. But here's the point. We spent time together.

Here we might've spent all that time and concluded that our differences were even deeper wasn't good. It's good.

We spent the time together.

Then I shout out my warnings even more loudly than before. Then he tells people to avoid by book.

Whatever or we find there were areas of common concern that we have with exaggerations of grace, he said to me why don't we agree to expose counterfeit grace. And he laid out what he meant by conifer grace us and I agree with the definition of counterfeit grace yet. Let's put our strengths together because by God's grace we both have influence and platforms. Let's put our strengths together. He has a massive massive TV platform these days and let's come against counterfeit grace of the same time, people realize we have differences about other issues with an faith. I want to encourage your pastor or leader. Have you gotten together with other pastors and leaders in your city much about those who are in cultured trying to reach out, but those who are with in the botnet. Maybe it's a liberal, Lutheran, Presbyterian pastor when you get with this guy or gal you find out they don't believe the authority of Scripture than believe Jesus rose from the dead. Okay that's so now you're do you deal with them like an unsafe person try to reach all right, but I'm talking about your Baptist you got assembly of God, pastor, your Presbyterian. There's a Baptist pastor, your whatever the different groups are. They claim to believe the Bible is God's word, not exterior books as God's were like the Mormons doing things like that that hold to the fundamentals of the apostles Creed Nicene Creed of the fundamentals or whatever. Okay the basics. They affirm those things. Have you ever spent time together have you ever done it or just brothers and sisters, you got friends and in other churches rather arguing all desire have you ever spent time together and talk things through and maybe you have more in common interests or maybe you can each learn from each other because maybe Strength could be encourage you to think about it all right friends. That being said, encourage you to visit our goal find me page. We now have an up dated video showing you progress, you gotta see it got to see what I see in the studio we take you around the screens. The whole set up with everything that's happened through your contributions and this is how were doing live stream right on YouTube and Facebook, that is you listen on radio. Others are watching me live on YouTube and Facebook. So go to and sees me go find me.com/ask Dr. Brown studio go fund me.com/ask AVR Brown studio together making a difference back with you. Another program powered by the Truth Network