Is This the Great Falling Away?

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. Jesus spoke of a great falling away that would happen or we in that now stage for the line of fire with your host activist all the international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown your voice of moral cultural and spiritual revolution Michael Brown is the director of the coalition of conscience have president of fire school of ministry getting to the line of fire valves like always 866-34-TRUTH that's 866-34-TRUTH your Jim is Dr. Michael Brown Jesus spoke about the day when the love many would wax cold and many would say were in that day. Now were in this great falling away. Many believe that before the Lord returns, things will get increasingly bad be a great falling away a great apostasy, and many feel were in that now are we. It is it maybe just something cyclical and this is just another one of those cycles is, it may be more regional and we are misjudging and misinterpreting what's happening or could D that maybe around the world because moving and how we sort this out what to the Scriptures actually say and how do we address what seems to be some real problems with the faith today, 866-348-7884.

Let me put a book title up for you before we go any further, it's a book by Glenn Stanton's been for many years with Focus on the Family and I just want to take a look at this title. It is the myth of the dying church.

How Christianity is actually thriving in America and the world and in this book came out in 2019 is not just say that Christianity is actually thriving around the world and other countries are consonants like Asia or Africa or in Latin America, but that Christian is actually thriving in America and then this endorsement to the book by Prof. Timothy George and and it's it's a very insightful endorsement. Listen to what Timothy George said he said accommodated Christianity is in deep decline but gospel focused churches are still vibrant and growing explosively around the globe. The studies both the source of encouragement and a summons to faithfulness. So in other words, there is a falling away. People are dropping out of church statistics of Christian affiliation in America and Europe are lower and lower and lower of a brick for many years, that in England. Church attendance is lower combined populace than Muslim attendance at mosques on a weekly basis. Haven't looked into the statistics in depth, but have heard that for quite a few years now of any of the number one name poisoning him in England for years has been Mohammed's a minute number of European cities that have been historically called Christian receded declines in America. The turning against the gospel, the hostility towards our faith. Young people dropping out well-known ministers falling away announcing they no longer believe. Seems like things are going down. It seems like there really is a serious decline taking place or could it be that what you do have notable people Christian authors worship leaders different ones falling away announcing their faith.

Some say in their atheist sums and their agnostic. Some say they have no description but they know they no longer believe they once believed could be that we have those cases were just hearing more about them because everything is in the news and social media. Everything is potentially instant news, but that overall the ones that are falling away or dropping out of churches are the ones who never really been deeply rooted, the ones who's never really been solidly born-again or could be. Along with that that most of the apostasy is from people are not really in the faith there in churches. They were in churches, but they're not really in the faith. Now we've talked about this before but I felt was important to bring it up again today for quite a few reasons to open up the Scriptures and then after we do that we get what we look at some stats look at some Scripture will open up the phones 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH 87884 out right now because of COBIT because of things still not being as regular as they were in many parts of the country so you can't quite tell him we gain people of lost people. We've reached more people via Internet list people in person.

It may be a little hard to gauge what private covert in the months and years leading up to code what was happening in your own congregation medicament Larry B. 100% candid with you as I always am when I started traveling and preaching decades and decades ago started preaching and 73, and then we travel to local churches known couple states around New York in those early years. Then my schedule things really shifted around 8384.

Mr. traveling a lot more than certifying to to preach acidity striving to nearby locations, etc. but one thing I discovered pretty early on. It wasn't just pastors who excuse it was just evangelist to exaggerate. It was just evangelist, stretch the numbers you know that the word evangelistic. Now, many people were the crevice that all was like 5000 you speaking evangelistic is more like 100 that the end and I discovered that with evangelist now this is a general state, but I discovered that that with evangelist that they really did see bigger.

I remember being in a meeting and this this evangelist was asking the people in the in the audience to listen to how many of you before you came to faith.

There was a conference with Jewish believers is it how many of you before you came to faith were involved in the occult or false religion of some kind, and he said you know it's the majority I found Jewish believers that they were seeking. They were looking Sue before they got say they were involved in the occult or in a false religion.

He said how many were an elegant amount enhancement. He was deftly onto something. A good amount enhancement. But whatever his number was he so's can be well over half was clearly under half so the hands go up and said that confirms what I was saying I was the sitting next to his wife and I lived there and she smiled because he saw he saw more and stuck with that in his mind, and sometimes it's hard to gauge when hands go up until you ask the opposite that it's like balances out.

But anyway I found out over the years. It's not just evangelist who may exaggerate at times release the stereotype, but pastors do all man things are happening all yelled packet in this matter and and and I would each time. Is it oh wow, and I get to the church.

It was like half of the people that we were expecting it. Things were not quite as is pumped up and then you sit your local leaders meetings and local pastor Sharon was going on over breakfast things and you know if the first guys got a great report. It's really hard for you to come and sing in the things that like losing members. People just not meeting with God backsliding. I'm not doing well and that's what often honesty is not cultivated and open this because everybody's got these great stories to tell, but having said that, I know firsthand churches all over America that are growing rapidly. They are seeing people saved on a regular basis that it's not just lateral transfer, you know that that that you go from one church to another church under the spiny that America you know you eat the grass one pastor guitar that move onto the next move onto the next move on to the eczema that happens endlessly blunt about people coming to faith people away from God. Going back to God.

Believers getting set ablaze.

I will churches all over America that are growing that that are seeing people pressing in loosing spiritual hunger and spiritual source.

So how do we sort this out.

Does the Bible explicitly say that before Jesus returns there will be great apostasy does the Bible explicitly say that.

Let's take a look at some verses starting in Matthew chapter 24 verse 12 Matthew 2412 Jesus says there because lawlessness will multiple, some would translate that with iniquity. It's anomie in Greek, which could literally be lawlessness, iniquity, will multiply will abound, the love of many will grow cold now, you could first say all that was a more direct answer to a question of the disciples leading up to the destruction of the second Temple in your 70. Sue is talking about was that happened back then ugly that's true but I believe it's like a mirror image also about future about the end of the age that a lot of Matthew 24 has fulfillment in the in the first generation leading up to 8070 and the final generation leading up to the Lord's return that we see some fulfill back then and other aspects fulfill the future so could that verse be used to say that before Jesus returns there will be great falling away could be could be.

And certainly, as we see lawlessness abound in iniquity abound in temptation more present than ever. It's really easy to see how many will fall away and many do fall away, but is it only verse about this quote let's take a look in first Timothy first Timothy chapter 4 the raw spirit clearly says that in later times some will fall away for the faithful and deceitful spirits and teachings of demons through hypocrisy or false because his own conscience has been seared there would be people marry they committed people to abstain from foods that God created for the faith was your Thanksgiving. Having come to know the truth of it is is that speaking of a final apostasy will first thing is, why would what would Paul be warning Timothy about this this first why would Paul be warning Timothy about an apostasy in later times many of the end of the age.

Could it be that later times is saying he Timothy in these last days in which we are living the last days era from the death and resurrection of Jesus until his return exclude the last days in the New Testament that in these later times. There is apostasy.

While there certainly true. There are all kinds of apostasy seven heresies in the early church those relevant then boot irrelevant into their job going to be relevant as well. Will the end of the HB. In particular, marked by apostasy. Maybe they'll be two extremes. Great harvest and great falling away great outpouring in many saved many others following. Could it be that the entities will be marked with parallel extremes.

This my own view parallel extremes at the end of the age great darkness great like slick. In one part of the world out Stark in the parlor of this light is the sun shines as the earth turns the same way.

I believe the end of the age. Great Satanic activity great divine activity, and if there if you could pick one to live a time with lesser Satanic activity and listen divine activity great Satanic activity great divine activity you go for greater because greater divine activities thing that we focus on the sort this out to talk to what's happening in the world and Americans initially some stats that will encourage you to lose things and be sobering. I don't hear from you.

What are you seeing in your world falling away revival combination of both file light a fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown get into the minor fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH here again is Dr. Michael Brown and friends for joining us there's no question that many are falling away from the faith is no question the people getting picked off. There is a lot of bombardment there are a lot of attacks on the Bible of people not ready for.

There is a generation raised with a certain hostility towards evangelical faith or biblical faith, then to the extent that evangelicals were identified with trump or identify just with politics in general. That's the fleet heard things and then just the availability of sinful temptation will quit when I was when I was a boy I was a teenager.

I did have access to pornography did have access to it couldn't buy a Mac. There are few magazines that route right at my dad didn't subscribe to them soon have him in the home. I have friends whose dad subscribe to them in and you my friends have access to them so you have access them. There were theaters you go to you how to be a certain age to get in point theaters few and far between I and most of us didn't even know where they were.

If they did exist, suggesting have access to them to get to certain age, unless you hung out with certain people was now in any kid that kicked him up her cell phone can access IMPORTANCE of the site age restricted in and and then the amount of distractions in terms of let let's just say that sports is a stronghold your life. You just obsessed with watching sports will was economy growing up in New York we we had our number stations on TV so travel to CBS semaphores and BC, five was at WOR think Joseph was ABC or or maybe, if I was when there was channel 9 then Channel 11 that was the station we watched New York Yankees games and then Channel 13. That was public broadcasting and then that was black-and-white and color came out of course amazing. While you watch. You know the Flintstones together as a family, but if I want to watch sports every so often the game would be your mirror Monday night football canvasses good watch is what's in your Giants or Jets game on Sunday. There the whole surrogate when those games and then Monday night's football and maybe I can get a hockey game. Sometimes her basketball game in New York.

I love sports teams but still depending on the season. It wasn't like you just want some all the time but now it's almost everything available. Most all the time and video-on-demand. There so many distractions there so much available temptation.

Sexual sin always been powerful powerful pull on on human beings and then just the distraction of social media. The things that pull us away from the war that pull us away from prayer. It's definitely a time where people are falling away and when you look at religions worldwide you'll see that Islam is being threatened in certain areas or Hinduism is is just people have access to more information. Enter questioning the things that that she have that element that affects Christians to that they have access to more things access to more questions when I was when I was newly saved if if you said okay what about the major arguments of the atheist will aside, it was in a class with the professor was an atheist, I knew a strong atheist. After read a book like go out and get a book you know from some atheist and it's as opposed to just flip on the Internet out with any number of choices of thousands of choices of of atheists and others bashing the faith requesting the faith are given the sincere stories as to why they differ so specifically challenging time now is God word like all know what it might know the gospel remains the power of God for salvation to him, believes first due than the gentle and the that the power of God keeps us we we are kept by God's power. God's not slack or lacking or wanting in any way here whatsoever whatsoever, but we are facing serious times I just wants to get a larger global perspective first couple scriptures second Timothy chapter 3, second Timothy chapter 3, beginning in verse one, Paul says that in the last days, treacherous times will come right Timothy understand this in the last days, treacherous times, hard times will come people's will. That's it. It's an end time prophecy for people be lovers of self lugs by both Larkin plus was distributed to parents and grateful and wholly hardhearted unforgiving backbiting, without self-control, brutal, he was good, treacherous, reckless, conceited lover, supposed revelers of God was without form of godliness but denying its power. Stuff to just respective it will be the Scriptures up does not sound like this by the regeneration, I remember hearing that read when I was newly saved thinking wow what a perfect description of our day, but then you see preachers equal to get 100 years earlier thousand euros early Sigma description or the that's a description of the human race but but notice I stop reading holding to an outward form of godliness but denying its power. Was Paul and say avoid these people avoid these people. Okay so what's what's the point Paul is telling Timothy in these last days in which you live. Don't just think it's good get better and better and more one more more wonderful and everybody's gonna believe it can be spectacular and amazing and know this. It's can be treacherous and difficult and people gotta be like this that was we are living in these days, so avoid those kind of people I was the reach out to them throws fellowship, and that no avoid these kind of people to try and infiltrate the church and take you down. Avoid these kind of people so yes the end is marked by apostasy on the one hand. Second Thessalonians chapter 2 was Paul Wright. Second Thessalonians. The second chapter that we ask your brothers and sisters, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus the Messiah and our gathering together to him not to get shaken out of your mind you disturbed either by spirit or word, or literacy through us, as of the day of the Lord is come let no one deceive you in any way. The day will not come unless the rebellion comes first.

Three. What extent apostasy. This rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, one destined to be destroyed so there he is saying that there is will be a final apostasy before Jesus returns. That would absolutely seem to solidify this idea that before the end there will be a time of great falling away, but that's not the only picture that the Bible paints, how about what Peter says in acts. The second chapter.

The outpouring at Pentecost was he say he's explaining that the hundred 20 that he received the spirit they are not drunk for 16 but this is what was spoken to the prophet Joel and it shall be in the last days, says God, that I will pour my rule off my spirit on all flesh. Peter adds the words in the last days there not there. They're not there in the Hebrew and Greek. Peter adds them to say this time that were talking about is the last days. This go back to the text. He says in the last days I will put my Spirit on all flesh your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your young men shall see visions, your old men shall dream dreams. Even in my slaves. Male and female a report.

My Spirit in those days, and they shall prophesy.

The goes on to talk about the outpouring the signs in the heavens and whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved so we see that in the last days in which we live and in which Peter lived in which believers have lived for the last 2000 years there will be great outpouring there will be great visitation. There will be great moving of the spirit and there will also be great. Falling away great apostasy. And as I understand it exponential increase of both. At the end of the age. The greatest outpouring servicing the greatest attack on the faith those who are properly grounded will not fall away those who put their roots down deep and who walk in obedience to the Lord.

They will not fall away. God has given us ways to be kept.

The question is with what we see around us today. Is there grateful what is this the final apostasy that Jesus spoke of that, Paul spoke of is this that will here's my question is what there's no question many are falling with is no question it's challenging time, no question. My new book has God failed you addresses these issues and helps those who are fully will tell you more about that in a moment. But let me destroy attention to a couple of stories here. Let's start with the Washington Post. This is 2015 2015 though I had been hearing these exact same reports since around 1983 or 1984 when David Barrett working with about 4000 volunteers all around the world getting data sociologist anthropologist. Missiology is always different ones getting data as to what was happening in the world of religion around the world and in the particular world Christian encyclopedia to their shock. They found everywhere that Spirit empowered Christianity was the fastest growing religious expression on the planet so the article says 2015 think Christianity is dying. No Christianity, shifting dramatically look at this. While Christianity may be on the decline in the United States, the world is becoming more religious not less well rising number of nuns. Those who claim the religious affiliation. When asked claim the attention of religious pundits.

The world tells different story.

Religious convictions are growing and shifting geographically in several dramatic ways, says the religious landscape is particularly changing for the world's Christians a century ago.

80% lived in North America and Europe compare with just 40% today. In 1980 more Christians were found in the global South and the North for the first time a thousand years. Today the Christian community in Latin America and Africa loan account for 1 billion people over the past 100 years, Christians grew from less than 10% of Africa's population which nearly 500 million today, one out of four Christians in the world presently is in Africa and the pew research Center estimates that will grow to 40% by 2030. Asia is also experiencing growth is worlds Christianity centers Montgomery South, but also peace in the last century Christianity grew twice the rate of population in the continent. Asia's Christian population is 20 50 million is projected to grow to 460,000,000 x 20 25.

What you make of that era. The line of fire with your host Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. I just started being minutes before the show started today so we really never first hundred votes 90 something in but asked this question several New Testament verses that seem to speak of and in time apostasy.

We in that season. Now resent mainly in the West.

These come and go cyclically was actually global revival taking place this is over on Twitter so the responses so far first 95 votes now. Yes 3.9% think yes that we are in the final and Tom falling away a 17.9% say only in the West, 31.6% say it's just cyclical and then 11.6%.

The smallest that is actually global revival taking place. Interesting perspectives all right phone lines are open any question of any kind, as we do on Friday we try to open up phones of the days when we can. Any question of any kind.

Anything you want to challenge me on probe question you been wondering about your Bible studies in your church 866-34-TRUTH 8663 freight 784 so unrelated to what were talking about apostasy revival.

Any questions of any kind, 86634 before I take you into a very interesting article want to make to 33 special announcements first in over 41 minutes will be back on YouTube, so asked her to Brown ASCII dear Brown on YouTube will be back there for our weekly exclusive YouTube Q&A chat so it's a great way for you to join if you are unable to call you just prefer typing at your questions. We go 45 minutes or an hour with every imaginable question come up with week we get to answer them interact with them, so that'll be for 15 Eastern time on YouTube. Okay first nest second prayer update prayer update. I shared earlier in the week talked about yesterday posted on social media on Monday I got a very disturbing email from a pastor in Pakistan brother that I met in the states. A few years ago I wrote an endorsement for his book about the suffering church in Pakistan. I can tell you more information where he is who he is out. This does not good for me to broadcast that here, but he told me that in the country. 25 to 30 girls a month object. It's adjustment on a daily basis. Christian girls are abducted by Muslims there kidnapped and they are basically forced to convert the BB rate. They may be beat their families may be threatened and then the Muslim men go had married so he writes to me, and he said I'm really heartbroken.

She was in our service this morning at 5:30 AM. She's only 16 years old.

She's part of require the someone from my churches say was kidnapped so we put our Pearl are thousands responded with prayer. I didn't hear anything for two days and got back to him. So was his right grandma today.

I get back to him asking for an update and he said she appeared before the court, trembling and saying she's almost so whatever they did to her or where, however, they threatened her family whatever there. He reported the incident to police but now that she says she's Muslim can't do anything. However, just got another update from him minutes before the show. They now claim that she is marrying this muscleman and she's 18 years old. While he has proof that she's only 16, which would be further proof that the thing is fraudulent.

So he's trying to go to to the High Court with this but obviously we need divine intervention. So pray for the deliverance of the 16-year-old girl I'm in there so many others like her. Pray for her. May God hear prayers for her and for many others make believe and save the people at kidnapped her so pray for. I don't know her name if I had it I would give it out anyway.

But I did see her pictures. I saw the man in front of the police. The station is there going to report things so please pray for that third thing how did I come to write has God failed to I was approached by one of the publishers that I work with and they said Mike. How do you feel about writing a book on the great falling away and are we in that great falling away now and as I begin to lean into it. I said you and I feel more to address the problems the struggles that people are having, and not just what's happening but helping people who lost their faith helping people who aren't even sure if God is there helping people in the church were secretly struggling, quietly struggling, I'm speaking to many so you battled doubt. For decades, but you just outwardly try to live a certain way.

I wouldn't surprise me right now I'm speaking to the pastor's wife and you have lived with the agony of doubt. For decades, but you can say anything because you're the pastor's wife. You might be the pastor and you struggles are theirs would pay this just what we believe you associate past. We just preaches do this in quietly on the inside. You're hurting in your diet then suddenly here social fellow oil was a sudden was a sudden, often there is the inability to have a form or place where people can ask questions, what with what young people they need to be given space especially bombarded by so many other ideas and say okay will told you struggling with okay non-look and judge her for not think you're crazy I the same questions are you I hear that a lot though still unimaginative and I notify the stick together. Let's go on a journey of expiration to get let's do that instead someone is because of what you doubt your public not vote somewhat with you in a week or or whose emotional Mike Brown of Mike Brown confounds Donald out of my measure what I believe those of us enough case, but where I go for struggling. What would you do now use words keep it down this this constantly happens you you experience some abuse within the church. We can talk anybody about it because in that congregation.

This the leadership is an abusive setting where it were there we got protect their turf. You differ with them you get you get smashed when you do so I wrote this book to help you help someone you love. Work these things through there. There's a chapter just prayer really work this chapter. What is there is no God, there is there's a chapter permission to doubt.

So I think I think this will really help you. I wrote it I would get on my knees and say God I need your help.

I don't have what it takes to write this. I've had intense battles with doubt, but they been very short. The been intense but short-lived on spiritual warfare.

The lesson times for years that you're battling something and I and understand what it is to go through battles tri-stand as far as getting it with deep doubt is God even exist as is been the rarest of times and I was 49 years in Lord I been through many challenges to my face many challenges but that agonizing is real is it those in short, and I haven't lost as much.

So if you've lost having to live with chronic pain. I'm to bury a child or something like that.

It similar. How can I help people that are struggling. How can I help people that are hurting. I know I understand your word. I know I know you and I know you give me wisdom.

Lord, I need more why my words you helping someone else didn't and then I talked to Nancy. We've talked endlessly and in the 47 years that we've been to 45 married and €47 total and and which came out of atheism and she got saved became an atheist when she was that even a bit because of that she which understands the mentality which understands the struggles better and and and is learned over the years and all walk with God. Somebody thinks we would talk a lot so I'm I believe this book really help comes out May 11. If you want to preorder assigned numbered copy. I just go through praying over bunch more that we just sent out at less of you are praying over them to Sprint would use this to touch this person uses Lord use this book for this person to love and your sending it to, so I really believe will help you can preorder a signed numbered copy of the first print. This was like a collectors item but were also including an additional audio teaching on God's true grace, just as a bonus additional thank you for ordering so you can still do that on a website and will be sending them out within a day of when you order because we have them in for preorder as it asked Dr. Brown. There were KSK your Brown delicacy right on the homepage or if you like to book you get an e-book you know and on Amazon or Barnes & Noble or Christian book review order.

Those are available for preorder, or in other forms as well, and then the audiobook should be out at some point soon just don't know when but I wrote the book initially asked the question, are we in the great falling away is definitely a season of apostasy is definitely a season of people having their faith challenged on a deeper level, but I do not believe that if there is a final world was falling we were in it now.

Much was happening in America, which was happening in Europe of the countries but most of it is happening in churches that weren't strongly rooted in the first place.

Most of it is happening in churches that compromise the gospel decades ago, most of it is happening places where the word of God does not have full authority when places where the Holy Spirit is not allowed to move that's where most of the following ways. My experiences been were gone smoothly.

People are flocking people hungry people, thirsty and unfunny young people wanting to be challenge okay so so look at these look at the stats here of this is an article in religious news.com from little rear ago.

For every 25th 2020 and there is a major study that was done born, theological seminary, Oral Roberts University and empowerment power 21 network release this research on the Pentecostal charismatic movements supporting Commonwealth on charismatic school. When the top seminaries in the country.

Oral Roberts charismatic University so but was great scholarship. So you've got, you got an interesting mixture so the scroll down to some bullet points in the article ready for this. From 1900 to 2020 Spirit empowered Christianity grew it nearly 4 times the growth rate of both Christianity and the world's population did you get that over hundred 20 year period spirit empowered Christianity grew nearly 4 times the growth rate of both Christianity in general and the world's population currently spirit empowered believers comprise one quarter of the entire Christian community, which is expected to grow to one third by the year 2050, Asia, and Oceana experienced the most rapid growth of spirit. A power Christianity.

However, the spirit empowered to publish in Africa is expected to grow more quickly within the next 30 years. Today, the countries with the most spirit empowered Christians or Brazil United States is still here in Nigeria was 1900 nations with the most was South Africa, Nigeria and United States and Afghanistan, Cambodia, were Christianity remains relatively new are the countries currently experiencing the fastest upsurge in spirit empowered Christianity wow friends, these stats have been steady since they were discovered in this 1980s growing growing growing because moving is it's the line of fire with your host activist, author, international speaker and theologian Dr. Michael Brown voice of more cultural and spiritual revolution get into the line of fire now by calling 6643 here again is Dr. Michael Brown conjuring his friends on the line of fire and he had three to the phones. Remember, 415 so 27 minutes from now for 15 Eastern time will be back on YouTube, KSK, DR, Brown for our weekly Q&A chat. Let's go to John in Everett, Washington. Thanks for calling the line of fire. Dr. Brown can hear me okay you can all right yeah I really appreciate everything you do man God bless you. Or you all that the wondering is locked in a debate with you and Bart Ehrman from I get like several years ago and your debating the suffering there is one part in exchange are you guys hurt talking about how a little bit younger youth that I don't call you but you did something along the lines of the picture I get is not one of of God like slipknot on frying pan on it on a grill you don't talk about it. Sure. And obviously… Strike. I just wanted to clarify. You believe in eternal torment.

You leave and help for those who die with others been forgiven. Rachel Lee clarified the first thing is there are many exaggerated pictures of hell in the Dantes Inferno type things and when I'm debating a former evangelical now agnostic/atheist like Bart Ehrman was aggressively trying to bash her position and make the God that we love seem evil on the pushback against the caricatured interpretations.

That's the first thing right. And even those that have preached eternal hellfire over the centuries have often emphasized the metaphorical nature of the language so I would say that the next thing is that I have emphasized that the consequences of rejecting Jesus or irreversible or utterly horrible and of eternal nature now is the eternal nature that ultimately someone is destroyed.

Whoever does not believe in me will perish. The wicked will be cut off to be punished with eternal destruction from the presence of the Lord just quote a few verses or will there be conscious torment.

To me that's a fair question to discuss scriptural you have Matthew 2546. Those going into eternal punishment than some would say what's eternal punishment notes punishing. In other words, if you forfeit life if you were destroyed.

Matthew 1028 fear the one who can destroy both body and soul in hell.

So that is something that can be scripturally debated. The consequences are utterly dreadful and forever is the forever that at some point in time that person ceases to exist, is the forever that they are consciously suffering that can be debated to be scripturally and and what I decided yet what I decided decades ago was that the best thing was to quote the Scriptures and let them stand for themselves nor to give the warning in the words of Jesus in the words of Paul below. Daniel 12 to those that rise to everlasting shame and contempt, is that they forever there suffering shame and contempt are forever. They are remembered with shame and contempt, that's music fair scriptural debate and and so tried to say let's discuss that scripturally while warning the strong smell since last thing I I did a show years ago with a proponent of annihilation is him and actually songs. This book is so strong I thought some of his arguments on the air would be strongly we can have the best phone connection. Whatever but I yeah it was but I yeah so his book, the fire that consumes this is important to read in this regard. Knowing how strong his book was II think we may have had a bad phone connection that they so I either want to speak negatively of him. That's why I admits that the in any case, I I raise.

I think it was during that show. If not, it was after that, from my perspective. If you think that the punishments are forever and ever.

Then there still something in your mind's okay will at least it ends at a certain point, so some of this in here the federal share the gospel with somebody.

It's not that bad or even slow it's it's can be a disincentive to go share the gospel (people called in and said actually that the doctrine of eternal conscious torment was so monstrous that they found it very difficult to share the gospel because when people raised that they had no answer.

And now that they see God's justice in a different way there much more zealous to share the gospel. So that was that was an interesting perspective to keep the key to me is that we carry the burden that whatever it is that drove missionaries to the ends of the earth to give their lives for the loss of that same burden is in us and that however we parse the difference there. We can debate that yeah I get back at the only thing that Victor become a danger with the view of annihilation, which I believe that radical view personally, I think, like when you read Jeremiah 923 that is, let him both both that he understands and knows me that I am the Lord, and I think that that who executes lovingkindness, justice and righteousness on the earth the things I delight, and went Scriptures says that just like the foundations of throne, and that your thought of omitting what art they look like in the eyes of a holy and just eternal God and you you kind that you can kind of bacon into a God that is for the mock door and the other check in with that is that, at least in my experience, I've known one thing particularly who fell into the ended up not benefit like everyone but he ended up just falling in all sorts of other deficit I've deftly seen that John and I am not sure those concerns in terms of are you just struggling with the God be God because bottom line to me. God is good and faithful and I bow to him.

I don't tell him what's right or wrong it on the floor.

On the flipside on the flipside, people could say will God put his sense of justice in us that sense of righteousness and we would not allow or sent someone to suffer forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever.

What they did. Finances was a sin against eternal God and infinite God bit it in any case of you got my view on the subject and what we should we share the concern that people lessen the intensity of the burden for the lost and the severity of God's judgment hey John, thank you, thank you for the call 866-34-TRUTH.

Let's go to Pedro in Nevada. Welcome to the line of fire. Hello. Thank you so much for taking my call. Reread your ministry.

Thank you. I like especially when you and you engendered by our talk together at half an example of how you know we have freedom in Christ back from different you would still believe the court tenant so that you for all that think my question is a theological one. It concerning the immutability of God.

When somebody asked me wall what about this verse regard changed his mind and I'm sure you already know him so I'll skip the punch. My answer when they asked me, that is well, the Bible can be read in a normal fashion where you can have descriptive prescriptive passages and from the perspective of specifically God and perspective. Specifically, man. I would say there they from the view of man.

You can see God changing his mind but divinely he already knew what was gonna happen, so is that a good answer. Would you say yes I know that that's certainly true I was.

I would phrase it slightly differently.

I would say. First, God communicates with us, and in human language right so what, when, when he says he's a jealous God will is not jealous the way weird we can be jealous right but there's a holy jealousy. So when he changes his mind. It means he said was going to do a and based on certain response.

Instead, he's going to do be, but he's really like that out.

Jeremiah 18 he's ready said wise promised to bless the nation and that nation now sins. Then I'm going to change the blessing into a curse and I promise to curse and that nation responds with a pencil to turn the curse and a blessing so you could say that that God is God and his nature never changes. He remains exactly the same.

He is consistent, perfectly good, perfectly righteous, perfectly merciful, perfectly pure, never changes.

No deviation, but his actions will be determined on how we respond in a just like a parent with a child.

All right, you can be punished for XYZ when the child shows real ownership of what they did and truly repents of what they did with humility. Then the parent might seal I've seen the way you responded on the lesson this so it's all everything courses that you're exactly right in that God is God base to how we respond that he will respond accordingly and that's because elsewhere tells us he never changes his mind, meaning he never deviates in that in that regard. So what you would. The good thing to say take him through a first Samuel 15, where God changes his mind. It seems there is grieves what you know of oversaw, but then is clear that he never changes his mind and it's all the same passage so that would that would be saying hey there's a way to understand it, so your aunt deftly on the right track with that Pedro hate got a run at a time here. Okay Brian, I am just going to answer this couple questions like I can pick up the phone out for lack of time I have ever left the faith know by God's grace. No never fell away never pasta size.

I deftly had a season late 70s early 80s were left. My first love.

I was a committed Christian. I was was teaching the word adult Sunday school, elder training in church active in ministry, bringing the poor and needy in our home, etc. of committed to the Lord, but had left my first love.

And there been times over the decades, Robin battered and attacked and and really felt the enemy trying to pull me down by God's grace. No never left the faith all right friends join me out 15 minutes on YouTube SK DR Brown and will be answering your questions there. Starting 415 E. of us.

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