Jerry Mathis, Matthew Sink, and Derrick Mushaymunda

Pursuits where you hear from ordinary people instilled with an extraordinary fashion. Together, we explore the stories of men and women who take what they love and let God turn their passion into the kingdom pursuits now live from the truth. Your host Robbie Gilmore well about not Robbie Mathis and Robbie's family function going also is not even the studio with me so. But that being said, I am so blessed this morning in the studio with Ms. Matthew sink and Derek Muster Monday, and upon just to be a great moment morning. One thing about it is the fact that this is a morning that I get to have couple people in the this room with me that I really do like it must hundred people in here that I really like but these are people really do like this is gonna be a great morning. Have a great hour of a just talking about how God is able to use both of these men in a mighty way and I want to kick it off. I want to go ahead go to Matthew how do you introduce yourself. Matthew, sink, go ahead and lead up to senior minister Pando Christian church and then I'll just want to say a couple things about that is the fact that a lot of churches in about one of the things we'll talk about this morning's trends inside the church is just the function of the church and one thing that I'm in church leadership is an elder at Palmdale is here. The horror stories of transition and one thing that has happened this past year at Palmdale. We had a passing the baton is for senior minister goes with Bill McKenzie to Matthew sink and just that and that the flow that it just been a meeting just just been a blessing to see where you normally don't see that in church and part of that is the to me and that that that I just mentioned. Matthew Timmy blew bit about yourself and what what first thing on they went up you introduce yourself. Tell me why in the world you decided to go into ministry.

Well that's that's a complicated question. First of all, I'm still reeling from what you said a minute ago when you said you were in the booth with two people you really liked to know me is not to like me and I don't even really get that kind of praise at home, so I'm still trying to to process what to do with that.

I have been at Pinedale now for several years, but like you said only a few years in the role where were observing right now and it is it is just such a good place to work. And God has blessed me so much.

I'm I got into ministry in the back door really Jerry because I was a teacher in elementary school teacher for the first part of my life coming out of college for the first 13 years and my journey into ministry has been a late one and it's been a scary one because it was a calling from the Lord that I ran from. Until I couldn't run anymore and since then all I can say is, it's been an adventure for kids is that it is a daily adventure.

So there you go in by the way I'm to be careful what I say here because you're my boss at Ettinger so I arrived my my peas and cues. I hear you had.

We are been a blessing hand and it's amazing how God unfolds things and puts people because I know when Matthew came in first that think he came in and started working at the church is just part time in the singles ministry and how was yours ago is that been 200 and I don't know is it I know what it feels like I 10 years ago is when I started on staff know a little more than that. Maybe 12 years ago all time flies. Yes it does. I had more here back then. Well Derek tell me a little about yourself and then you know one thing and and and I know you been studio with me before and I never really mentioned this, but then I thought about it yesterday because we always talk about the that the fund of Muster Monday fund and fund and the mission trips and step because that is where your passion is. And God is using you there. But just what is your everyday job to the way because that's also because I know that I'm speaking from some what experience how God uses you every day just in the U of your job at the hospital. Yeah, my my name is Gary Comeau, Shyam Linda, I am or reach 90 from Zimbabwe sold in Africa so oaf which Matthew sink was in here with me have taken the trip to Zimbabwe and that we had such a wonderful mission work fit together and out of closer brother Jerry is been a very great mentor to me as a big brother and has been such an inspiration, not just him but tell a Sunday school class that is done while marvelous things in terms all five making sure that the village in Zimbabwe, Africa gets lots of supplies in terms of pencils, pens and Bibles are things that help people to see the hand of God and be able to say that God you warship I I see is a something that's with being part of his well but being here in the United States. You know I am being part of Pinedale which has been part of the journey of my life since I was born because of the connection with that Dr. Dennis Pruitt who I use to be sponsored or supported by Pinedale Christian church from Sprague Street will become a missionary and connected with my parents in Zimbabwe, you know, I've been able to work here ill with the transplant group. You know, which helps you know with the organ transplantation then and as well as working with outpatients in the hospitals and families. So this is been an amazing journey. Just being able to be there to be the shoulder that somebody can lean on during the very difficult moments at the Wistar off the worst yet I know that that working in that environment is that sort of yet almost walk on is a fine line to with your Christianity you can't do, but so much but I do know that that that that Christ works through you and is pretty evident and that that's that menace that's a powerful ministry just just in itself and we sort of kinda knowing about told you I sort of forget about that ministry because but that is a ministry and Stefan will talk a little bit moving forward about why missions are important to you, and I think were going to know that answer and also with Matthew wise that it is one thing wise mission is important to Palmdale and will talk little bit about big church and small church. There's a place for both and a calling for both and is so important that we recognize the differences in and what the opportunities are ponders a large church I'm in is not the largest church or anything else, but it does give us an avenue to be able to tell it to reach people who are hurting where a small church can't do that.

That's why missions are important often say in Matthew's taken this. This banner also and move forward with it. Where where church that number one is kids are children, but if it's if it's the fast number 11 a right underneath it is missions and you agree with that Matthew have absolutely visit our our church is is really based on the two things that you said and they're not even there not even two separate things because we look at children's ministry as missions work is just as the mission field is right in front of you and our missions program extends from there to the far corners of the globe and of course that's by design, right because that was the marching orders that Jesus gave us and asked if we will look for blueprint to do it. You know what, what better way. Where where should we start that's that's what Jesus calls today and and Derek.

I note be in here and being being away from the village and stuff but is continues to be that's what drives you. That's why everything you do points to one thing is reaching the lost.

Their cause is just as important that we bring people to Christ in the United States, but also is important that in Africa and in other parts of the world that we have that same passion and I think what you got voiceless brothers names that are part of the foundation of my brothers names Donald Dennis and Daniel all these brothers we given these names via missionaries that just goes back to where we never know what scenes were planned and how the be harvest by God your perfect example that will be back in just a moment kingdom pursuit this morning, once again got a Matthew in the dissent never talk about inside the churches that we talked a bit about where their passions are and and and and both of them tell you now one of the that there were probably the biggest passion is just just reaching the lost and being able to show Jesus Christ through whatever avenues we have as a result there we look at we talk about church this morning was spent time talking about the church in the churches in this fairly just that under Christian churches that on peters Creek Parkway are the church on the corner but is just the church in general we look at the blueprint is what Christ told us, and then what New Testament tells us is enacts the New Testament church. What do you think the New Testament church was all about.

I mean what what what was the blueprint that God gave us there, so that when you're way you know when I hear that I die vividly. See you know Christ himself saying to his disciples, then that became apostles go you to the end of the world you know preach the good news to the poor.

You know, to all those who listen to you.

You know preach unto them, so when I look at the New Testament. He's cool. Mind is really to go out and preach the good news of Christ. Jesus sees his resurrection and his dad thinned and everything else that he did for us while we were yet sinners and he was able to say these is what I want you to go and do and bring the lights onto the weld so that light is the light that emanates even in the areas that on mostly even cold duck Clinton and like the continent of Africa where many people had not really heard the word of God and so this is where my passion is as well. Even when I come from Pinedale and withhold the support that we get from our church at Pinedale and many other local friends and chicken churches that has the passion to get out there and and change the weld and all that being said, and it is we talked about as part of the New Testament church is just is just being there and supporting the believers, but the main thing is just reaching the lost.

My question for Matthew is looking at from the church perspective. Has that changed or does it need to check that it definitely does not need to change in a sense a let let me say what I mean by innocence and the dairy Derek has such passion when he when he speaks and he's right and what he saying that Jesus is the one who gave us our marching orders and he in the great commission.

He said go out and make disciples. You know, teaching them to obey what I believe what I've commanded and baptizing them and then in acts. He said in and start right in front of you with Jerusalem and then Judea and Samaria, and the ends of the earth, so our marching orders came from Jesus himself, so the bottom line is our mission has not changed. And of course our message has not changed either from the very beginning.

But what has to change in and really for for modern churches what were talking about immediate use. A big church and small church were all one church right is to wait when you think about the mission of the church are methods do have to change and so and so, our mission hasn't.

But the way that we approach that mission has to and that was even true in New Testament times, the disciples and the early Christians use different methods when they went out and ministered in Samaria than they did when they were in Jerusalem and they use different methods when they were in Antioch which was a Gentile city than they did when they were in Jerusalem. And when you see Paul go to say Athens Paul argued and reasoned with the people in Athens in a different way than he. Then he approached different cities as of the point is, even in New Testament times. There was a different approach that was required to share the same method are the same message and that's really true for us to because the church right in front of us. Right now it if you just start on our block. The church in America is changing fast. America is changing fast that there's been more change in this country in the last 20 years than there were in the 60 years previous to that, and some of that change. I think is is positive and we we see a lot of change. This -2, but it definitely requires us to rethink our methods right because we have to find a way to to speak the language of the culture.

Where were living with the timeless message that doesn't change, and did so that we look at that we flip back to Derek with the missions.

I mean, I know your your product the child out of the mission field because of how you grew up. I mean your parents. They invited a missionary to come in and become part of the family, but really that that that missionaries Dr. Pruitt came there for one reason.

Same thing. Matthew was just talking about something you talked about early on is the fact that Old Testament church was go out go out in evangelize ground introduce people to Christ and is a happening in Zimbabwe now and that image talk about things or change, not just United States change the world is changing and things that we take for granted here mean just a moment ago. He talked about how much is gas a gallon and yelling in Zimbabwe. Things of very expensive and things that we may look at here as things that are of no value. People of the value those things you know that you know things such as small pencils and pens and folkies to be able just to go to school into have something on their feet.

You know when they do it's it's a huge thing. But top, but again all that you know people have important to see the handle of Christ because of people who were obedient to the widow of God into the coal mind when Christ Jesus Saiz go ye and preach the word eyes studying from Jerusalem Samaria to Judea into the end of the world and off we true that obedience are those who are in those other parts of the world have been able to receive the word and is there is no place now that you can find more response than when you go out to the other parts of the world off which Africa is one of those places where you can go and find people that are so hungry for Christ Jesus right now and they are ready to receive the word right now so it is interesting that when you when you look at the food growth of Christianity. The United States is almost becoming a post-Christian nation, a menu you you see that in in trends everywhere you look, but there's places in Africa and Asia and even Europe right now where where the gospel is exploding hymen there. There are big things happen at ghosted we live in a country we take the said earlier, we take so much stuff for granted where you go into Zimbabwe you go into Dominican Republic. You go into Jamaican you go into areas that that there is a hunger for that. And the thing is you can use tools and this is going to go back to what we talk about the church in America.

How do we use tools but you go in there and just a pencil to make an impact and that can be a tool to get people to understand love of Jesus Christ. If it's a craft RR the Winsock it doesn't, you know, little things like at a notebook so that they can have a notebooks take to school me that that's is that not a tool that's that's a wonderful tool you know that's the thing when people can see the practical Jesus who is holistic who can meet people's daily needs where they are and walk with them. From where the then they will say you have truly walked with Jesus walked, and that gospel never changes in the gospel never changes. And that's where we get back to to our church and everything the church in America, you said back. He said it live in a culture in the world is changing rapidly and and again II think there are are some changes in the United States right now that are positive and and even when you think about the. The way that that we have identified racial sin and and gender related sin in the country and and brought those to the forefront and you can keep one with this list. I think that's a positive. Some of the changes that were seen there a lot of changes that that I think grieve all of us around this table right now and one for sure is that we don't just live in a post-Christian nation we live in a post-truth nation because our our country now really really defines truth more based on feelings and crowdsourcing truth than that on some standard of truth and it's in some ways is a post-decency nation Amanda the way that that people relate to each other and treat each other. I know grieves me and so where ministry now in a culture that is very different than the one that a lot of us grew up in. I'm 45 years old and even I can say that I mean that that is a different world than the one that I grew up in, and I know this that when I went to Zimbabwe last year with Derek day it was different preaching and ministering in Zimbabwe than it is. The United States is I'm not see them better or worse is just different is that is a different way that you have to approach people so for us in the United States church if we can look right in front of us and say how do we minister in this context, take some discernment we can't do the things that we've always done. Just because we've always done them when he did have some wisdom and say our culture is changing.

So how do how do we speak the language of our culture and give your second Matthew to think on this and for become from break for lunch answer now, but how is a minister, how do you lead the congregation how you lead a group of people understand that and and and realize the value in and one thing is change, but also the value of make sure that we don't change the gospel me that that's that's two monumental things that we have to deal with and also forklift before we go so I don't miss this at the end of the show.

Derek real quick give us the that that email address or the website for the foundation and that way I know you can go own kingdom pursuit and pull it up there and there's a link to it but also if you just listening. One of go to the website.

Not able to.

What is that the website is MC DF offense.hall there you go to this great opportunity at tech to get involved in that. I don't care where you're here in this you can get involved back in just a moment went out as a minister feel that I would have the church I think that the answer to that question has to start with helping people remember our identity. Okay, that that when yours when you're standing in front of a church.

The first thing the church needs to remember is who has cut who is God called us to be. Because our culture is looking at the church and they're seeing the church through misconceptions and things that they've they've heard rumored and and the way that the media portrays church which everybody here knows isn't usually accurate at all. Sometimes, unfortunately, but, but not usually so we need to ask the question.

Who are we and what do people know is for me when people look at our church.

What did they know us for what they know that were for Cemex is not just what were against what are we for so when you're leading a church you need to start by asking the question everybody who are we really known for select start here. We want to be a church that is a Bible church. We want to be. We want to stand on truth and so in a world that does post-truth. We want to say the Bible is our foundation and we are people of the Bible and we don't apologize for it.

Jesus doesn't need a lawyer were just gonna stand up and be people who who proclaim the truth and then we need to say where people who invest in children the heavens the world is invest in our kids hard right and new stats that are really depressing right now say that two out of every three American young people walk away from the church between the ages of 18 and 29, so we gotta ask ourselves the question, how can we invest in kids and help them may be avoiding the landmines of the culture we live, and then after that what I would say is every church right now needs to think about how we go out and let people know what were for an almost 1 encourage churches to invest in your work gloves to get outside the church and sweat in the community to work for the Lord in your community because obviously when Jesus said start in Jerusalem. He was say and start right in front of you. Let's go out in our community and less be part of the lives of the people around the church. Don't let the church walls be walls where we hide the where we hide behind.

Get out there and work in front of the community because we are labeled so often is backward and bigots and whatever it is. People want to say we need to be known for doing good and known for serving the least of these are known for loving our neighbors as God's injury. To answer your question to lead a church right now means to start by saying what are we known for and less be very intentional about thinking through that some accents yeah it certainly does not think we can as far as churches go, and it is happens just human nature we can get hold off track or poured pulled into the ditch, or in the woods just because of we let the culture around us dictate that because it's almost where we want to be. I want to buy one of form to have whatever the cultures tell me and and I think that's what makes us the church different from the world. What should and asked why I think we also take our passions because you have a passion and is sent to the ministry. Derek is through a minister's different ministry and that's the passion of missions and end it is added is that when you're doing that.

I say that I'm trying think that a sensor comes out right but how many times could you let the culture influence that because it's easy to walk away from the Muslim and a village because of all the things is happening around it and think it is it really worth the effort to do this is a really make an impact, because everything's fight to get to know some of your trips. You've gone all know where it was almost going to spray it up because in the what's going on over there tell me not to go but yes because there's lots of political pressure to weigh the pressure around can be very huge two way it's very scary and threatening to weigh you feel sometimes like is it with going into these territory and fight the principalities of these are university and off, which we know that's a spiritual warfare you know where the darkness is fighting the light. So when you half that then you have to fully put on the full armor of Christ Jesus, so that you can be able to pierce through the darkness and be able to conquer that darkness so there is loss of pressure from the outside, you know, that sees the light coming in and that doesn't want to see the light coming and fighting that so we are determined to keep pressing on.

Even with the American church helping with the African church. We are making that that big strides absolutely end was that there were talk about that churches stuff it in time with the church of the US is so many trends that are changing in the church of me now with the storefront churches that are one service and that's that. The big box and that's just that the all the effort goes into that in which there is a place for that. The smooth as I mentioned the small churches, the church on the corner for that that little community that's always been like that caught the holy huddle with a sort of playing together that there to support each other but then you go into that a church like Palmdale where we do some things that is really unique for a larger church. I mean we think Palmdale thanks send that that one of the things we children kids are first missions but then also just nurturing our body and and the congregation. That's why Sunday school is so important and and you sit there and you see that that's not important in a lot of places while Matthew said get in but known gloves and stuff would leave it better will we go out into the community and bring Christ to the community, not in the name of under Christian church by the name of Jesus Christ is the same thing when you say we that's just a tool we use. Just like the pencil is in Zimbabwe or or that the note book or whatever it may be, and we sit there and we look know just how is God going to be able to use us and is not really is important about you know what I want to get a movement going and hope that God gets behind it is you know we need to step back, I think we've done that and most of the successful church isn't an admission movements and ministry movements is whenever just how can I partner with God for his purpose and that that's a big to me that's a big difference when is my purpose God's purpose, Inc., one of the things that has really hindered the church in the United States over the years is how we let our churches be so divided – and especially here in the South there. There's churches all over the place right and we we tend to isolate ourselves from each other and and compare ourselves to each other and we are we almost compete with each other, which cannot be what Jesus intended from the very beginning. I mean, think about what one of the mottos in our churches were not the only Christians where just Christians only right and when you look outside of the walls up under Christian church. There are some great churches around us, and I'm in great churches and and some are bigger than us, and some are smaller than us, but the bigger thing that we I'm especially right now in America that I think we need all understand is were on the same team here and there is something big. This happening in our countrymen there. There are there's a wave this coming that that's a big one is more important than ever in my mind for all of us to to get on the same page and say you know what wherever you are.

Leverage the opportunity in front of you and so if you have 20 people in your church on Sunday or 20,000 people leverage the gifts and opportunities in front of you, and less.

Be bold and and get out there and and work for Jesus and the world around us, because for all of us. We see change around us, but that change one thing and you mentioned it has been mentioned multiple times this morning.

One thing what's one thing that can't change the gospel right so if you if if I'm in a small church and we have very limited resources. The question we gotta ask is how do we leverage the resources that we have for for the good of the kingdom. If you're in a bigger church. You have a greater responsibility but it's the same mission right Amanda, the Lord, the Lord is judging the size of the gift he say and be faithful with what I'm given and let's get out there and and be bold in the world around us. So, in whatever church context around that's our mission step up to the plate in the low back in just a moment and Matthew would cover a lot of the bases them really want to just use this for the you have been using for just an open forum just sort of talk about you where God is lateness and were God's lead and you two man we think about the church and am we start breaking it back down to a little bit of the local church and stuff.

And the question was how do we still make the great commission and also enacts the New Testament church.

How do we still make that alive in an exciting and you note.

I think when you do a mission trip is always what's important thing to drawl the kids in the and and the nonbelievers to you is something that's exciting what was the one of the things that that Eric the child and is just the soccer belt will have soccer tournaments and stuff you go what is soccer gotta do with Jesus.

Yeah that's those little things really bring excitement to people who I have never had this so-called bull before but they are signs of soaker and out when you can bring them before them and say here's a soccer ball. But what we are going to do here. First is to have a divorce and all, and read the Scripture and preach the word and then after that we can be able to work together as teams and know that we are here for fellowship, like the early church that got together and people fellowship together and knew one another and knew how to encourage each other and save one another so of these has been amazing tools that we used to preach the word being very practical with the word being very holistic with the word so that people can really see the practical side of Jesus as well. So any little things that can make an impact in kids.

It just draws them to the Lord in and getting them to see the handle of Jesus Christ things that they never dreamt about or envisioned all going to school all just getting a nutritious drink once a week and when they haven't eaten anything in a week. Then, this is huge for them because the essay wow this is the true Jesus we have heard about that we are. You note. We desire to follow so is a result of the site technician trips at least every year to you know really supported by our church find a Christian church and now we are taking another group from old Richmond month at Methodist Church and not to buckle feeling made May 15 so so we would like for people to pray for us, for they send and if you have anything that you want to give towards it intends all four pencils. There on pins and things like that you can do that as well.

Yes, great opportunity to serve and so we sit and look at that the church in general look upon to just take a snapshot upon Dale. I know that this is an exciting time. Upon Dale and part of that reason is what George talked about using soccer as a means to be able to introduce people to Christ. Note were fixing to go into a major remodel project at Palmdale and what would be the purpose and that woman with can we spend arts could could we asked Congress to spend money in a better way than that FFF of any time that we asked the congregation to step up it it's for the purpose of the gospel that that you said at the beginning, the marching orders that that Jesus gave us on this when we're looking at a building that hasn't been touched in a long time wait when you think about major renovation and of course we don't worship buildings.

That's not what this is about but is more a recognition that we live in a world right now where this next generation grew up in a multimedia age mean they grew up surrounded by so many different types of media and their minds are always being fed by those things and I of course this is easy for people who grew up in a different age to criticize that, but this is the world where that where they live right what we want to do right now is we want to fit our facility to have technology that can speak the language of of this next generation and message. That's a big proposition.

A minute is not easy to do when when you build a room before there was a such thing as Internet almost the it. It takes a lot to go back and and change, and yet we do that for the same reason that that we've been saying we do that because were trying to find how to speak the language of a culture that's has learned a different language. Over the years and that that includes media and technology elements that are really important when you think about how to reach people in our in our time, yeah. Good thing we look at Pando look at the history of the church of most churches. You note. There was a time when when change starts happening, but always that the changes I said earlier, as we look to see what God is lateness. I think that's what were talking about doing there and there's been multiple churches that have done that if it means changing the seating to that, to the sound of the lights was the purpose of that will change is scary and and by the way a lot of churches have trouble have trouble making changes.

But that's also the reason that a lot of churches end up becoming irrelevant because they're not willing to to change the approach. Never the message and in this instance, we don't use a pipe organ anymore. Even though Once upon a time we did and there's been other changes over the years that that we've seen trickle-down have to do that to to stay relevant and speak time was how I was like in a moment the kingdom pursuit