The Heart of The Caregiver

As caregivers we have so many things all the time and we can't always nail these things down by ourselves. Who helps you what does that look like I'm Peter Rosenberg and I wanted to you about a program but a part of. Now for almost 10 years. That's legal shield for less than $30 a month. I have access to a full law firm they could handle all kinds of things. If I get a contract put in front of me if I got of dispute was something doesn't matter, I've got full law firm that can help me navigate through all the sticky wickets that we as caregivers have to deal with power of attorney medical power of attorney will every bit of it as a caregiver.

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Have a great conversation today with my friend Mary told her ON her wonderful insights of the journey of caregiving. She's taking care of her daughter Marianna since your husband with son William and Mary Edison is 30 now I and she understands the journey. Edison has quite a few challenges over the years that have presented quite a few moments of heartache and struggles for the family and through this. Mary has learned amazing insights and her book her ministry.

Her focus, everything is called the heart of the character and is it hard at the heart of the kegger heart of a caregiver to the heart of the caregiver. But did you find me and the other one team okay well either way you're always talking about the caregivers heart and that's one of things that initially connected us and I'm so grateful Mary and thank you. We tried this the other day and because of my ineptness were having to redo it.

But that's okay word often when I'm stuff to talk about Mary.

I am a grammarian are both from South Carolina. She's from the coastal parts of the loan from the Piedmont area they call it an upstate South Carolina and we both like mustard based barbecue sauce as any good decent American would fried okra, shrimp and grits. My sister came out here for Christmas cover your season come again this year. She and her family come out and for Christmas dinner we had shrimp and grits. So is South Carolina thing or what, that's awesome, but neither one of us have went went out of southern we can. I'm well I know why I can and I have but by wife is been very encouraging of me to to get rid of that as I go on the air.

So now I honey I bring it all.

It had you, but that of the set part where you're from, you have a whole different dialect it will. We headed up. They suck your WI was cow on the port country with a K and you guys are down there. What we call the low country, and other by the water and the that's right. And you know and we have that real little island little country island real flat leave my my in-laws all talk like us real flat will they they say I have a southern exit out here in Montana and don't you know all you budget but I you I can't hide it. I was born there raise their then spent last 30 some years in Nashville.

So I'm a child of the South and that one as you and I talked about this because before one of things I miss the most about living in Montana, which I love Montana but I miss waffle wheat we got all pleasant whole state out here in you know it it's just it. Well, we are told buzzing about opened up when we have them scatter's mother cover chunking branded you, not Brandon but branded and I am you know it… Tell them about boiled peanuts and and they look at me, aghast. There just are just still and with revulsion over boiled peanuts, or as we say down there ball peanuts and it so they they've kind of adopted me ask you put they look at because suspiciously every now and then help with. I can't hip it can't.

Mary, you have you have a good quite a journey give bring us up to speed a cutter where you guys are so the people know your background because when you speak you're not speaking for this moment you're speaking for decades of struggling with these challenges and then how you and your family have have pushed through it. What you've learned through it and so forth. Some bring us up to speed on well to send this now 30. Like you said – she was born having a seizure disorder. She's having about 500 seizures a day and I am even caring for her for 30 years and she's had seizures almost every single day of her life in this people to deal with people who have seizures now that also means lots of falls and breaks and busted head and all kinds of stuff she doesn't status coming out of the hospital so it's it's really different from just having a child is mentally and physically challenged its like waiting for bombs to go off all the time and then during caring for her and caring for William. Our typical son.

My mother-in-law developed cancer and then dementia. My husband is an only child, so we were taking care of her on top you take care Mary Addison and I like I tell people I lost myself I just disappeared.

I i.e. I gave my career and give up on my hobbies and weekly social life, while I had been an anchor woman. Believe it or not and then after that it morphed into a kind of an international public relations firm. So I was you, when you wake South Carolina I would be very safe will be right back. I will sneeze now can you hear the high quality of my Midwestern voice when I've been raised in the South. I don't pop my keys with your your further love this that I should barely muddle through it will be right. I give up a whole lot in like I was strapped and somewhere in the middle of the journey. I finally cried out to God for help, which I had been a pew Center present chosen, but I had never really been a follower of Jesus at all and the first time ever cried out to them.

I sent. How did Mary the mother of Jesus watch her son suffer and die like I'm having to watch my daughter suffer and die because of the time they sent her home as a baby to die in our arms. You 770 seizures and I heard him say letter suffering me for my glory and not just launched me on this.

What does that mean and what drives me deep into the Bible and that's where I started hearing things like come the first of the last in the last of the first in God uses the foolish to shame the wise, and uses the week to shame the strong. And I heard all kinds of wonderful things about serving that Jesus stepped down from glory to serve and I thought I haven't known this Jesus, who is best and I went deep in his word and the comfort that I got everything years I journaled and then I started seeing other people in waiting rooms and on the floor in hospitals and at therapy and all the different places and everyone was so burned out and saddened by this caregiving experience and we were learning how to love supernaturally and what it truly means to be human love that's available to us that we just need to learn to receive in all these marvelous messages through this incredibly deep and difficult journey. We were hearing a whole another story. And it was being brought to light in us and we clearly heard to share it with others, and that's how it all started. How did this affect the network friends and so forth that you had at the time colleagues everything else. When you start to build this particular path, or head. Absence disability already cut isolated you from them or what that that morphed into Peter as you and I talked about a lot there so many loving people who want to help.

Just don't know how right and they don't know what to say they don't know how to help in that's that's something and that's what happened with my social life.

People loved us and wanted to help. Hey probably number one is we would let him how it was so chaotic and so confusing and so embarrassing and we were full of semi shame and guilt ever how we'd fallen apart to me because our finances were falling apart.

Our marriage is falling apart and so there were people who tried to love us that we would let him and we didn't know how to tell people to help us all. So yeah, we can already push*social circles away. But then when we went down that where units used to serve Rogan to choose to love working to choose to see Christ in this she is simplicity of life and give up all the hustle and bustle of job in keeping up with the Joneses in order to make loving Mary Addison no longer a burden or problem. It was the focus and center of our life is squarely sought Christ the most that little a lot of people's minds that we would choose that it sounds like you just got off you just got off the freeway exit ramp and you just a little over here exactly. That's exactly what we did and so that was the yeah as hard as it was any regrets now not regrets but you and I both know it's a tough road.

I mean it's like a swimming upstream constantly. All you choose to hang in there with someone and live is intimately as we do as you do with suffering and suffering of another person. People are always telling us wanting to get more caregivers.

Why don't you put her in a hollow yellow.

Why is it sheen programs all day and you know it's hard to explain the lessons that she is seeing to love sacrificially have taught us talked about this recently from a program I'm writing something about it because what happens to me and I think it happens to you too from what you tell me for gleaning and is that people want to come up. It's not that there toxic people in the sense of yeah there are always those who criticize and tell you what you should be doing.

But then there are those who come up and what a whiteboard.

The whole thing. If you try this if you try this if you thought about this of you thought that I have to explain to them why I am so far beyond this, it is not that I don't appreciate good counsel from folks are seeking out all the time, but until you've spent some time on the field you're going to always want to interject your opinion from the cheap seats are not to be people. People seem to want to do that again you this is one of the slaves were unless you've actually done this or spent time in this world. It's very difficult to process what it's like to deal with relentless crises. This is not a situation where will Mary Addison, your family, me, Gracie, reach a homeostasis if you will. It every day is a new Christ, and you get more slaves like you never come into port you're always in the store and you have to learn to make peace with the storm absolutely and you can't freak out and some people come into that insular, they may swerve into our lives, but also the store they just get it full from on their like it affects what about what we do with it. Just like just settle down because as I was taking Gracie the burn through it was just I was told they were just kind of panicky but I was I was riding an article while she was in the birds who brought their upper secretary get one of the traces that you know that you that they feed you with and so forth it. But other bedrooms raised up of a laptop in us finishing an article I was writing because this is my life if I stop my life.

Every time we had a crisis I would have no life. Well the same way you you and what you you just learned to just you. Blessed are the flexible for they shall not be bent out of shape but you just have to learn how to go with it, but I'll take credit love it but it is Peter that I went on a two year journey to write the second but the peaceful caregiver with God was that peace is the choice God is always extending it and so many people feel like with bombs going off, and with crisis is happening with people when you know when when you caregivers. Most of us are taking care of people who are getting worse every day. Now the Alzheimer's is getting worse.

The cancer is getting worse. The dementias getting worse. Parkinson's is getting worse. You usually not dealing with situations that are getting better and the crisis the disease and disability seems to have taken over everything. You start feeling powerless, but when you realize that peace is a choice that nothing can steal your peace. Regardless of your circumstances. If you learn how to practice peace the way our Lord teaches us. Now you feel that power again. You have that power back because you realize it's all up to me know Mary Addison. We went on a family vacation and with a bunch of other families and Addison went into status. One morning, and were miles away from any hospital, and no rescue meds know nothing and she was seizing so badly that we couldn't even pick up and carry her downstairs and get her out of the car. So for man had to pick up the mattress she was on while she's flapping in, seizing, bringing her down the stairs putting her in the car and us taking off and getting to the hospital and what all the other families still to this day. Comment on is which I was so calm, which almost so, and you know my husband said what would getting hysterical of. Added to this that all but most people say but how you how you maintain that level of peace and calmness and you know that's what peaceful caregiver is all about is how do you really learn to shift your perspective to know that everything really is okay and that you can choose peace and that you can take a deep breath and let the Holy Spirit guide you and that God can bring something really wonderful out of something that the rest of the world is freaking out about and it's it and it's just taken hold in our lives it would. So when you talk about the storm we had to the point we can actually go somewhere with this one. You know the reason something and we realize this does not chaos there's there's treasure there. If you can just maintain that peace about it in trust, you failed to give injections. I was you had to give injections how many refresher courses do you need on giving shots wanted to wanted done right.

Got it I got it you got it I got it would be able to do it. And this is what I tilt Buffalo caregivers. It is pointless for us to spend a lot of time on things that are wanted done.

Once what you got you got it. I don't need to be to get a refresher course on how to do with insurance of Devon doing this, though, for a lifetime or with Dr. but I need a refresher course on a regular basis on how to deal with me and how to deal with my troubled heart and how to deal with my stress. Yet all these things I have not only caregiver amnesia have gospel in the bed and I have to be reminded of these things because they're not wanted done as would be blessed how you keep calm is not that. It's like you said it's a choice I have to choose, as I cannot.

I didn't choose to be calm 12 years ago and it still holding. I have to choose to learn how to deal with this every day, every day that I put a song of my CD.

This is a need the every hour because they haven't written us all. This is only the every minute of it. I have to do this every day, but I don't have to freak out about going to the emergency room because that's I get that understand what I struggle with that. I think I may struggle with this for the rest of my life is reminding myself that God is not absent from this that he sees every seizure that Mary is. He knows every tear that you've had in the dark places of the night is watchmen because of the dark night of the soul.

You know he sees the conversation I have with the ceiling fan and hope in the heat. Hethinks he is ever present in them and I can trust. Do I hold onto that every dead buff one my favorite prayers and all Scripture is Lord, I believe, help my unbelief. Amen yeah that's that's kind of where I live. I just I think that that's it, I probably go to live that way for the rest of my life that I don't look at that is the service fatalistic or is it an indictment.

I think this the human condition it'll Paul eluded alluded to this as he grew in his relationship with Christ you know and and you start off slave you know I'm a student of this guide. I do this will do this by the end of his life of these writing. I think the book of Philippians what it is like ghetto though this is worth just the stuff you vociferously coquettishly and I think that's the natural progression is that as we grow deeper in our relation with Christ, we realize how utterly dependent we are on and this, you did a little like that nightly don't but but that's reality. So love you like reality drugs to get away from it, but it only so reality is that what do I have that I have not received what can I do that I do on my own.

He even gives me the ability to trust my faith doesn't come because I screwed up my courage and swing tomorrow's real tight right in saying just as I have six more times it coast because he invaded my heart assist. Trust me, I got I got you and this is what I hear. This is what would dream me to what you do in the books that you write in the teachings that you have because you understand yes we swerve into caregiving task. It will talk about that. Both of us to order respective programs and everything else we do. But that's not where people live, that's not where the angst is is headed you once what you what you figure out how to deal with cleaning up vomit from a seizure. You know it's unpleasant but it'll write it doesn't cause me to despair but what happened to Peter for me was Romans 86 I read that scripture I mean this with now. This is many years into this journey and I'd already started. I was like my heart is yours Lord and I'm letting you love me first so that I can love other people from complete and perfect love knowing that you love me so I don't need other people to love me and it's nice but I don't and I can let imperfect people love me with their imperfect love like I'm imperfect but you are loving us through it all, Lord, and that is changed everything but the second phase that was the heart of the caregiver.

But in the peaceful caregiver was I'm still a hot mess and I just don't understand why in like that's what you are talking about us that we still have these units it just this daily thing where you're trying to get it right, but but the mind, led by/led by/gas the mind control by Spirit is life and peace, and I will reference the just look that up while you were referencing that the mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace.

That is, yeah, and I realized that what was governing. My mind was my flash and it was this little place, the father of lies. That was constantly going you didn't do that right. That's why she still has seizures. You didn't do this and that's why your husband is mad at you, you know it. It was all the lies of the flash that I was listening to that had been jerking me around my whole life about why need this and we need more money and I need more free time and I need an end and I realize the spirit. On the other hand was saying. All you need is me just rest and trust that you won't rest and trust you keep jumping up trying to figure it out trying to reason through things and you won't just rest and trust tonight. I began to see this huge really like the cartoons with the devil on one shoulder and an angel on the other and that I needed to learn how to she is to listen to the spirit instead of to my ego and allow the spirit to run my life and you know you bring up something when you said you need more money. I need this and money does help, but this I learned a very important lesson one time will talk with some friends of mine and they had more money that I can imagine coming in credibly wealthy people, hundreds of billions of dollars and he had some type of neurological event and was really going downhill with his wife was nearly killing herself to take care of you and I said you have the money call somebody to come in and help do this and she could. She was paralyzed because the guilt and was the guilt that was. She felt obligated, which was leading to resentment and she felt so in bondage to this role that she would not make the appropriate call that upholder so known for while blessed like to call. Here's the number make call.

It's okay killing yourself is not going to make the city better and to their credit that she did.

She did make the call and all the words that you used all the time.

She anybody says should have and all I can to stop it.

Your ego is the father of lies and money is were seeking after if we just have more money. We heard this we do this we can do this and it's never going to satisfy now starts right here what you just said in the heart of the caregiver which, by the great toddler. I wish I'd thought of it before you did. But if all objects to, but it's it it is that I think you're absolutely right Mary that it you you you realize this, you get to point me to realize I have everything I need in Christ, and here's what that looks like. Here's how to practice it yet and it will be better healthcare will healthcare is one of those issues that are going to resolve itself. If you have it you got it. If you don't have it, you could end up becoming indigent going on Medicaid or the worst happened in subregional data but it's it's a it is a finite problem.

It will resolve itself either for worse or better, but it will resolve itself. But if you are have all this resources all this money or oldest this and that things that most people think they got I have, you can still be absolutely in bondage and in Ms. wow having some of the best healthcare you could have absolutely and absolute that that's what I wanted by fellow caregivers to understand there is a greater need.

Yes these are the things are important and we would gotta have them. I got have gas in the car to build a get to the hospital. All this because of things. These are all important, but if I focus exclusively on that that I'm going to miss living life in the midst of this that I like.

There was was a defining point with me where I sit. I refuse to do this anymore like this. This is, I'm not waiting for Gracie to get better, not waiting for Gracie to get worse. I'm going to live life right now. Today and be productive. This is our life.

Surgery sheet sheet actually told me this yesterday we were coming back until she had do some stuff the doctors was two days ago.

She said I used to live that way. So it was okay if I could just have this surgery to fix this this surgery to fix this. And then she came to that realization since this is my life. This is the way it's going to be and I'm going to learn to make peace with this absolutely yeah that's because otherwise you're missing life and once you chances to saying this is the messages in the first book, the heart of the caregiver is chosen for this. I have been called to this been equipped by God, he's right here with me. I love in doing this and I am able to give extraordinary love and I can have great peace even though my life swings upstream to the rest of life and it appears to be very difficult. It is taught me the most incredible lessons of how to let go of what I think is happening and allow God to walk me through what really is happening from a kingdom perspective it's very, very powerful and it overcomes you know we here in the Bible. Things like that.

We become over comers that you overcome evil with God. And all this kind of things he think yeah right. That was Jesus, not me. But when your mindset and your perspective gets like this. Your impenetrable your unshakable year on a firm foundation. There's nothing to be afraid of.

There is there is no hysteria, and chaos. There is there is guidance there is lot of this provision. There's miracles because you're walking with the wine he says he uses the foolish to shame the wise, and you're doing things in kingdom ways that are absolutely flat aghast the father of lies and he has no authority over it just all I think I'm all it's real there's a Versed was transformed to me remains below the real personal mission with me. I will spend the rest of my life again trying to understand this verse is Galatians 220 known read it to you. You know the verse. I have been crucified with Christ are no longer live the life I live, but Christ lives in me, but the life I live in the body. Live by faith in the son of God and what I that verse is been heavy on me for about 20 years and I realize the life I live is a caregiver. I live by faith in the son of God, yes, we did the day. They said do you think your limited your audience by having all this religious stuff you talk about that you preach about. Lesson number one I don't preach.

I simply tell you this is how I live in the midst of this craziness, the Gracie delivered.

I don't know any atheist would have done what I've done or you up there. Maybe I don't know I just don't know.

I can imagine doing this, though without anchoring faith, but also have to recognize this is this is how I do it when you have every day is a crisis every day is filled with something that is going to break your heart and I know that Gracie wakes up knowing that as soon as she wakes up. She's facing a day filled with pain.

Only one time.

She said I am in pain when I dream of a this is never going away for her and if I go back to this verse. The life I live in the body as a caregiver with all the things that I do as a caregiver. I live by faith in the subtle, though I would love to tell you.

That I own this, but I do not, that I may not own this this side of heaven. In fact, I'm pretty sure trouble, but I'm not. I'm also not just starting out on this been chewing on this verse for 20 years and it is it something that helps me re-anchor because I get blown so hard around and I could easily just you lose my cookies and it said that could abilities of but I Fremont once told me if you put the bat on the ball. 3/10 times in major league baseball. The put you in the Hall of Fame. He said you don't have to do this perfectly. Perfection is God's business, but just you keep doing this and you watch and see what God's you be obedient, believing obedience not just obedient out of begrudging this. I think I will do that for a while. I was just being obedient out of the billows being obedient. I was just being with the word is for, but I was being a guest complied but reluctantly compliant force to do this, but there's a point where you shift new site.

I will do this knowing because what Scripture tells believing, trusting that he's in this.

I don't see it. I don't understand it.

I don't like it, but I will take him at his word and I will do this is unto him, because he says this. There was that moment for me and there those moments now how to permeate the top of my mind on a regular basis because that's the only way I can get through this. Otherwise I just descend into despair and frustration, resentment, anger, all the above.

Well, as those of the words okay doesn't the words that make you realize okay in Galatians 220.

We taught you say the crucified Christ Jesus tells us constantly to die to self what is dying to self mean what is that you know the Romans 86 about the difference between flesh and spirit. Okay/itself to die to self and when you start realizing that there's this voice Peter that is constantly telling you how terrible it is or how scary it is or how pitiful you are because you didn't get what you thought you were going to get all your expectations always other things. Suddenly you begin to see a time of lies about what life is supposed to be like and what I meant to look like and how much money I meant to happen things I meant to have the relationships I meant having suddenly you can begin to see in this is you practicing the five steps on the path to peace that I love the teaches there's a way to do it just like Jesus told us to do we just quiet those lies and when you begin to understand that you have the power to quiet those lies that/that ego okay so that's almost easier than believing these unbelievably large promises in the Bible when you see that you can start quieting your flash and you start going for so long. I was just a false expectation that was a bad word spoken over me by a really crummy teacher who told me I'd never succeed and I believe that all these years, or parent is fussed at me and I believe that that's not who I am in Christ. And when you start understanding that the two mindsets after your brain and you can choose which one to believe now you can start finding crucified life is not going through all the disasters and hardships of being a caregiver that is my crucifixion as the fiction is killing that little thing in your habits, constantly telling you.

It is in all the words like shame and pity and exhaustion and loneliness is not what this is about when I have a choice to tell it to be quiet and to choose joy to choose peace and choose abundance and to choose one thing to choose our calls and then that world starts becoming your reality, it's it's real it's trip so many people to finish our groups by the end of the grips they they made posters and put them over the bed of the one they loved it says it is Christ I serve. I love my husband because God loves me first, and always penetrates and you can begin to really live that because you have the power over resentment, shame and the guilt, fear, anxiety, all listings and God's word starts to become come to life and you know it is true.

All these promises are true.

When I tell lies to shut up no explosives that Catherine Katherina Vaughn Schlagel said that so beautifully's will be still my soul the Lord is almost bear patiently the cross of grief or pain leave to the God to order and provide an every changing faithful will remain.

Be still muscle the best that heavenly friend through thorny ways leads to joyfully ever feel like you go through thorny ways that she say the same thing. Be quiet. Be still my soul we have mastery over this because of Christ we are not slaves to our spasticity right that the word of that's you we are we are not in bondage to this and this is part of what I think would you said you preach liberty to the captive week we feel like we we must, we are compelled of these things, but in reality were set free to be able to say I will trust them through these thorny ways trying think for me I struggled for a long time because people typically would Jesus understand Jesus understand Jesus and I would look through all the Scripture never found anywhere in Scripture were guy was taking care of his wife that what I do and then I stepped back and looked to the whole of Scripture and Jesus is the bridegroom he's referred to as the bridegroom and the church is the bride of Christ, and it dawned on me that I have a Savior who's in love with the wounded, broad hello beautiful yes dawned on me about that and I thought he does understand as I care for my wounded broad. I am not alone in these things and I are serve one who does this himself alone that I could even imagine because something about how wounded we all are, and yet he cares for us and loves us this Peterson's cast all your care on him, for he cares for you and and and so these are things that I have anchored myself in and so that got always elite are you losing your audience, but to preach about. I don't think so and I don't care about your great gating audience. From here to offer the is pulses and correctives the same comfort that I have received from the God of all comfort and that's what he just did would comfort one another just like you when we were doing with others. Your comforting others with the same comfort that you yourself have received and it is such a what I have conversations like I have with you for this. I want to do this long form of the podcast and then you will continue to discover spaces on errors well but I want to just have this long for. Because I felt like you and is veteran caregivers can cover stop for a moment in the middle of the battle and just say because you both will be caregiver for the rest of the day that's that's our life not a better life and just a hard life, but it's these are things that build media strengthen me for the journey to hear what you say because all all okay so what would you see that commonality of what the Holy Spirit is doing in its anchored absolutely in Scripture that it just like it allows me to breathe a little bit more okay so you asked me when we know beforehand you about live up Montana and we moved away from Nashville. We live without her in the middle of nowhere and she would but isolation yes, but what I've seen people that are isolated on crowded pews. Amen.

Here I am 10 miles from the paved road and yet I'm not isolated as I'm talking to you South Carolina Dale and their people listening on the podcast who were now say oh I'm not alone in this and that's what I say this to the audience listening. That's what Mary and I hope to accomplish here today use the communicated way that you can understand is get people used to communicate to me all the time.

Great truths, but it didn't pierced my heart because they were speaking the language of my heart of what was going on in me and I wanted to take this time today because Mary doublespeak fluid caregiver that were speaking in the language of caregivers in a way that makes sense to fellow caregiver so that as you do these unpleasant task today as a caregiver know that you've got married succulent is doing it peters in Montana do it, and millions more do it and were leaning on this Christ that were talking about to give us the strength to grace the peace the columnist the clarity of thought to continue these task, however unpleasant they are. Knowing that, as Paul said he who began a good work in you is faithful to complete it to the day of Christ Jesus.

Mary has thoughts less loss. Well, just as you were saying that Peter and I don't mean to start another conversation. But Jesus stepped down from glory to wrap a towel around his waist and to take care of his wounded bride detached leprosy washed feet yet to wade into crowds of sick people and to bring us hoping to reconnect us to this divine love that can cure all things and for me that's what I witness happening all the time in our groups. When you get people reconnected in God's word be ministered to by his spirit.

There is relief does heal, as he does touch our hearts.

He does bring us peace and it's the very work of Jesus is not the work of you sitting there struggling with your Bible and trying to make it make sense when you surrender and and let him do this. It's real, the comfort is real the power the strength the energy to get up and do it another day and love enjoy is real, it's real Peter and that's my closing thought is I want people to know that transformation is possible this doesn't have to heart and be a horrific experience.

What seems to be the death of you is an invitation to a new beginning. Will said tells how to get in touch with you. The website is the heart of the caregiver. The heart of de caregiver.com but you can get there even if you make a mistake typing or you can find me on Facebook under the heart of the caregiver where we have grapes and eventually join our newsletter where we announced retreats, workshops, seminars, all kinds of things like that and hopefully new books coming out where working on it but also to connect with other caregivers who completely understand what you're going through. So that's how to get in touch with me will I hope that the audience. I hope the listeners. I hope you have found this to be a meaningful exchange. I know that I have every time I talk to Mary or just get a little bit stronger and a little more clarity of thought and the seas were talking about. They do not come easily. Mary and I have a combined well over 65 combined years.

Through some pretty rough rough waters, and yet here we are, and so do more of this I like this form. I like the long form of just the interview on the radio show. I have to stop for breaks and so forth. This part of the clock but here we can take her time and unpack some ideas and so would like to hear your thoughts go out to hope the caregiver.com and there's little comment that you could send this comment if you will hear more if there's a subject you want us to particularly talk about marriage could bring some friends, and that this were good or just to keep doing it were just to keep having conversations as much as we can because I think this is how were good all walk through these things to build each other up.

This is Peter Rosenberger. This is hope for the caregiver, hope for the caregiver.com.

Mary, as always, thank you so very much and will see you next