Sleep Deprivation and Family Caregivers

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When you call. Yes what you also get to talk to himself. The man who brings joy and laughter to children of all ages.

He is John Butler's account of muddy disco everyone John Highfield why am just great.

And as always and you know why if if there's something I can do for this planet.

It's bring joy to children of all ages from zero to hundred nine or whatever the Lego things as a special treat that you have many fans on the show, you know, I have received notes from all of them in and they said if John wasn't on your show would be revolting and lay up but I do have one on this is our dear friend Elizabeth up in Prince Edward Island and the other guy that I am alone here now and he is one of my closest friends and his name is John as well go with JP on this and I asked him to come on the show. He told me often. He said I just went to meet John, but I just said I really don't care about you. I just would be John and I know you. But it's it is I was thinking about John.

I've been to Africa together and I JP you have been to Africa together twice and he's been out here to spend time with us in Montana and we just we developed a very, very close friendship over the last 10 years. He and I share a a lot of common life experiences and a lot of common things that we banged around ideas for being healthy individuals in the midst of some real craziness is been a great source of encouragement to me, but he's got some wisdom on some things that I felt like would be appropriate today for the audits we touched on this a little bit last week and saw what continue to just bore into before someone about JP Highfield. I'm doing very well. John Butler, he's actually right. I cannot wait till I finally mutually talking many many times on the phone. I enjoy your personality.

I enjoy your your contribution of Peter Cheryl and and so all that it is true and I hope I'm not disappointed when I finally get to meet you is my distinct and singular pleasure to get some value to this particular program well along right now exactly all right and we speak sarcasm and I apologize to all the listeners streaming. This rundown social media.

There is a bus to the feed that I cannot seem to work out when I login with it that's fine for about a minute and then it just goes fuzzy but the podcast itself will be clear because it is in Dallas it is running this whole operation and he is doing a spectacular job of it so if you're fuzzy on the feed. You can always get the podcast later on@caregiverpodcast.com but there the podcast is free. Delano E. Podcast player and today is the when we record the podcast we just a little bit different on my Saturday show. It's all broadcast and we take a lot of callers and that come stuff, but on the podcast we opened up the conversation to have what I like to think of her in-depth conversations about particular topics and we don't. There's no rehearsal there's no scripting. As if that will require work and I I'm also coming me with a mea culpa to begin off begin the show with because Gracie said to me last week you you talk to John Butler a lot less and normally I could see John because we have video and less we can have it so I could see him and I was going blind into this so, but I will try not to step on John's toes back at you and I don't.

I guy I try to keep the float nice and even if this is your share class probably Apple for that I will but I love this format we can talk about these things and get in-depth John JP I've been talking a lot this week and in the last couple weeks actually because I have really struggled postoperatively, more than I really let all this is that a a a journey for me. I don't just buy me but it seems like it threw everything out of whack.

For me and you and I have I've gone now, almost 3 months without sleeping the whole night through. And that's been a tough thing for me last night actually went to bed early tonight. I woke up several times but I never got out of bed for nine hours. Longest I've gone as I was just so tired and I thought okay that's progress.

It is not just my knee was my whole body of shoulders and arms, and I was talking with John brings an orthopedic surgeon background. I was talking but my fingers are going numb because you're obviously something's thrown offkilter and pitched in my neck everything else call them up and I just ask a lot of just general questions orthopedically but then we got into a conversation about sleep deprivation and he you and are touched on that last week just to hear, and not John started sending me JP starts at me some stuff about this and so he's got his own caregiver journey were to get into that just a minute but I will start this segment and I just want to to delve into this because this is something that JP has personally wrestled with himself. He's an athlete if you heard about the tough motors Joe as well. This is Jake JP is this guy mean he said I think about it.

Any extreme sports guy and there is this and he's told me there's a result of this module and this in in those kinds of things of how far you can push your body with the wisdom brought him back to the table where he said you know what this is not appropriate. This is not healthy and I'm looking at caregiver and I think it would what it was like a failure injury. It was just like a little down.

I want to call it was his wisdom is the result of all of the week.

We crawled to the table. We walk away with with but but he started sending me some stuff but in talking about it and I thought how many caregivers how many caregivers are pushing themselves to the breaking point and not getting sleep. JP first off I want you to know this is a treat to have you on here. It is a treat to have your name get on two of my closest friends and delve into this just just jump in the audience can keep up because this is the smart audience of just delve into it and go about like open by saying that if we talked two or three years ago I would not admit them to contribute anything to sleep because I was under rock. I think the thing that really got me painter got my attention and I'm looking to very fond of Navy SEALs and of the Navy seal podcast and a gentleman by the name of Dr. Kirk Parsley was a former Navy seal that went back and started treating a bunch of Navy SEALs with PTSD and the long podcast and decided he basically look at all of their symptoms and and he described in actually pulling into my driveway and he described me described all these that I podcast Marie pre-played it and I played X attorney who does this sound like not knowing anything about the podcast through the skylight. He starts ripping down lack motivation to control your body composition, sleep difficulties, label moods, snapping at the kids relationship issues with your wife not a strong, decreased libido and I thought you that you and I think he's describing Navy SEALs that are suffering from PTSD that all have sleep difficulties in all different situations going on and he actually was able to find out that their real issue wasn't just sleep at all and edit any revolution nightly guidelines.

He's revolutionized Navy seal training and PTSD treatment and had it not come from somebody who I respected. Who also has this kind of bravado about sleep and sleep is for the weekly schedule, but I was one of the resident Lisa Jill will sleep is for the week and Lisa Stapp routinely 36 hours 48 hours and and without it went well and we could do it and and we were killing ourselves or destroying our bodies, but we were not sure we were orthopedic surgeons and we can do this now realizing like what we are doing to our bodies. When I heard this coming from somebody who I could respect to what the Navy seal ending the same kind of silly things that that I've done in the past. It really struck a more at your record, I should say and I really started paying attention and I started realizing that this is something I gotta get a handle on because my sleep was a LB Abbott sleep 6.2 hours a night. American switches parable which is two hours left and we all need mine was much less than that year Butler.

Have you ever resisted the issue with you was sleep well when I was this is this is one of the things that that that strikes me is like that. Yeah that that I hear that doctors and residents. This is part of the culture.

You know like you were working to do this and that perfect desk.

Yeah, the last thing I want somebody who are many get into a knife fight with while I'm not too big, you know, I want to be skilled one that I worried about it patient LOL hello Dr. now and I always feared that question.

I just got eight hours of sleep six hours now. I learned about while I am generally a pretty healthy healthy person these days. I haven't had surgery since I was a child, or anything like that but should it happen in the future. I know what question I'm asking will I would say that more residency training, likely attending physician get a better handle of their lives in and do a better job of sleeping, but more residency training and so I don't want actual doctors on the bonsai I yeah might my doctors will put my body back together and give you my life back in neurologist to fix the herniated disc in my back which literally gave me my life back 1011 years ago, so I don't doctors on the bus not allow Carlisle to get the culture you but pivoting this into caregivers. I look at the case that so many that are taking care of and loved ones are Delia and there's there's one principal I want I want to play out. That sleep ain't rest two different things and we could sleep hard but then we wake up just as tired and is groggy because were not resting but we'll get into that just a moment, but I was over 20 – 23 years ago. Gracie been on a lot of heavy medication and was sleeping pretty hard to the night. I on the other hand, didn't know any different and I knew that I snored like brothers always tease me about that was grown up, but I do know that I had sleep apnea and so I was when she came off some of the stuff she noticed that I would stop breathing in the middle the night and then then I would without if I ever took a nap.

I would wake myself up thinking I was snoring. I feel refreshed.

What happened was it was I was stop breathing.

My heart would kick in and then adrenaline goes to my heart and wakes me up and makes me feel like I got energy but in reality I did not have energy.

In reality, I'm looking I was just destroying myself one snorted time one gasp at a time and and so I went to a sleep disorder clinic in and they test me support and incidents that have used the CPAP machine and you know it's it's the way I have to do it. I have to sleep with that as it changes my personality if I don't do changes everything and imminently flow we've lost people think that a physically died from the exertion of their heart.

Reggie White, for example used to play football for the University to see the went on to play for Green Bay and and the stuff takes a toll on you. And so I thought about how to my fellow caregivers are not properly diagnosed with any type of sleep issues at all because there just push themselves the break so want to spend some more time on this is talking about.

Okay, what's the next step, how do we learn is how we find out this is hope. The caregiver of Peter Rosenberg on with my dear friend JP jumpers from Connecticut herein. Also, my dear friend John Butler Nashville and will be right back. Have you ever struggled to trust God when lousy things happen to you. I'm Gracie Rosenberger, 1983 I experienced a horrific car accident leading 80 surgeries in both legs and became I questioned why God allowed something so brutal to happen to me. But over time the questions changed and I discovered courage to trust God that understanding along with an appreciation for quality prosthetic limbs led me to establish standing with help more than a dozen years we been working with the government of Ghana and West Africa, equipping and training local workers to build and maintain quality prosthetic limbs for their own people on a regular basis. We purchased ship equipment and supplies and with the help of inmates in a Tennessee prison. We also recycle parts from donated lambs all gases to point others to Christ. The source and my help and strength these visits standing with help.com to learn more and participate in lifting others that standing without.com.

I'm Gracie. I am staining with help open caregiver.

I'm Peter Rosenberg. This is the show for you as a family caregiver that's Gracie my wife from her CD, resilient, and I go out to stay without.com you can see more about it and be a part of what were doing through this show through the prosthetic limb ministry that you heard her talk about and will send a copy of whatever Sonny Hartley will send a copy of her CD. I think you'll find it very meaningful. Talking to my friend JP from Connecticut and John Butler. Of course, about sleep and the challenge for family caregivers who push themselves and some of the things that you were to find out about ourselves. If were not getting enough sleep and one of them is you're going to tend to be pretty irritable to go to. Also tend to you tend to lean toward some depression and it's these are things were not. I'm not a medical doctor.

I don't have any training this John course of a JP does, but I don't but I I've lived it and I know what happens to you. If you're not getting rest and and I disliked significantly past the temporary psychosis. It is yeah if I start treasure next generation did a whole series of this that would yeah see the didn't they didn't sleep are they not only is and his weight was that was at frequency that they couldn't get into REM sleep now yeah okay right now and then and only data was able to get them out of that vortex right but I but I digress into nerd right of course. But what 011 more thing before we we you know about that train out of Northville even the Borg sleep so but when when we do sleep and we get good healthy sleep and I was like I was into the program. I wasn't sleeping so well that I have a ton of Mike Lindell's my pillows.

Okay I was ready to write him a stern letter. You know Chris and I would think you know, I see your commercials all the time. What's going on with this and but it was it was really sort of trouble being a blessing of John's other flooring pillows are right, they are fine pillows and if you were caregiver when you order when you get a discount of just saying that throws proper near JP.

JP came in and he started laying it out and he said okay. Look here. This is this is what's going on with your body and you know I haven't I haven't had too many medical issues. It is been 11 years since I'd had a about appendix ruptured 11 years ago and I to go to the hospital helps some similar things and then the but. But the this thing right here, for whatever reason have been giving along on this leg for so many months now and they want to get operated on it just it. Everything just kind of went haywire with me and I thought why is this happening why this just a knee surgery and that's when JP left to be snow dude but I tell you what you said you tell just tell the audience what you said to be when I called you just couple days ago I called yesterday and he said this is what's going on with it when sleep is already government would you talk about my knee when I said about why is my swear, my shoulders and everything else hurting when it was just my knee. Oh man, I don't remember we are talking about and I'm sure you will. You said it was only a set weekly talk going all night.

Well that's true but what are things you said to me that was rather poignant was you said when I was younger I used to kinda make fun of alternative medicine people because I thought chiropractors and acupuncture solace that I said I thought that was and then he said I left come to realize we don't know a whole lot in their everything is connected. When you measure locate one part of it. The rest of it gets wacky when I can get wacky yeah and are always compensating in there there's always waiting when you referred pain. You can you can have any pain that 90 knee payments just to payment going down here me.

You can start you can have a shoe that eventually start limping. And now you start on your back on it out of whack.

It really all you is a bad pair shoes that's on your wellness out of whack.

So yeah everything is connected and and then stop think that I've been out of medicine for 20 years. Just to let your audience know what that stuff. That and a lot of the sleep hygiene and made me let me research, I looked into it long after medicine because in allopathic medicine, which is your typical medical practice that yes takes diseases you fix broken bones you send people home. You don't prevent any and and that's a big criticism I think of medicine, but I and the American medical kind of community but it's just kind of where we are at a country we want to live.

However, we want want to eat whatever we want to eat.

We want to sleep a little and we can just go to the doctor and taking a pill to fix it so I don't I really don't blame the doctor. I blame the patient and eyeblink society and as these things are connected and and down in the old silly sounding on the leg bone connected to that phone and all that fairly cartoonish way to think of it, but we all, we are all connected and hormonal balance in all of that. Not getting enough sleep. Our brains are not regenerating neurotransmitters and regenerating. We can't think we can't handle emotional overload who can't handle stress and were doing to match ourselves over and over and over all all night.

Kate craved like we do it. Those World Cup is modern with 24 hour event by the middle of the night.

I'm hallucinating.

I'm talking to people who work there. I'm I'm literally literally my blood alcohol level is there, but I'm functionally anything. It's amazing how how we do it ourselves, feeling, and in those crazy dealmakers or whatever.

One time, short limited to only live our lives like so were trying to return to function being impaired. Just like with this. I try to drive a car if you had six beers or four beers or whatever the case, you can't do it they can do it you might get lucky and make home but but if it is a disaster and being sleep deprived is the same thing as being impaired with alcohol and dark looking lady John the other day it that the ghost loves talking to her and said she been checking on this with my surgeon supports and I looked at her and she looked exhausted in us and how you do it and she said I haven't had much sleep because we have a son with night terrors and no and not enough and then she said this is our second child to go through that and just eating supper did not talk to parents with children involved with autism and yet at night those children will elope some to walk out of the house and so they sleep lately sleep, on edge because running is the toggle to get up and leave the house of that have to do for the child stays in bed and I thought these parents are. Bless her heart, that is no way to live.

And yet that's how they're doing any day in and day out, and day in and day out, and so I thought we could have a conversation about this. What this looks like to get some sleep. How do you protect your children so they stay in the room while you go get some sleep. You know that kind of stuff that we can't keep pushing ourselves of these extremes and and so this is you were to go to the breaker just a second, but I just wanted to have this dialogue so people understand that this is not something we need to white knuckle ourselves through sleep is important will get to the point where we talk about rest a little bit later but sleep if you even think you have a sleep disorder, please see your physician.

Please see your position. This Peter Rosenberg. This is how the caregiver talked with John Butler of course money just open my dear friend John Parrish connect this healthy caregivers make better caregivers apartment helping will be right. This Peter Rosenberg never helped somebody walk for the first time I've had that privilege many times through our organization. Standing with hope when my wife Gracie gave up both of her legs follow this horrible Rick that she had as a teenager and she tried to save them for years and if it just wouldn't work out. And finally she relinquished him and that while this is that I'm not heavy legs anymore.

What can God do with that and then she had this vision for using prosthetic limbs as a means of sharing the gospel to put legs on her fellow amputees and that's what we been doing now since 2005 was standing with hope. We work in the West African country of Ghana and you can be a part of that through supplies through supporting team members through supporting the work that were doing over there. You could designate a limb.

There's all kinds of ways that you could be a part of giving the gift that keeps on walking and standing with hope.com would you take a moment ago understanding with hope.com and see how you can give they go walking and leaping and praising God. You can be a part of that@standingwithhope.com as a caregiver. Think about all the legal documents you need power of attorney will, living wills, and so many more than about such things as disputes about medical bills. What if instead of shelling out hefty fees for a few days of legal help paid a monthly membership and got a law firm for life while we are taking legal representation and making some revisions in the form of accessible, affordable, full-service coverage. Finally, you can live life know you have a lawyer in your back pocket who at the same time is an empty it's called legal shield and its practical, affordable and a must for the family caregiver visit caregiver legal.com that's caregiver legal.com. Isn't it about time someone started advocating for you www.dotcaregiverlegal.com on independent associate talking about rest, sleep, things and and I got my friend JP from Connecticut here and go course, John Butler, the count money disco John Elwood JJ peak to John to this 1:1 JP, both of the nickname JP circuits a little bit weird to see this podcast first lock of the court. You know that yet we are just weird. Our middle name, but weird. JP, you recently gone through a long stretch as a caregiver with your dad. I don't want you to load thing I want you to know that you don't feel obligated to give any kind of personal stuff, but I would like for you to share some thoughts you had on what happened to you through this process.

How to change that. This process and and where. Where is your headspace and heart space on this yeah well it's interesting because you and I been friends for a long long time and are our friendship at what they do in caregiving. It was just a crazy thing. Thank God for much.Rush Limbaugh who introduced us to each other.

That story has nothing to do it. It had nothing story had nothing to do with the caregiving and then in May 2017.

My dad had a hypertensive stroke.

He was on some blood thinners. A friend and outlook of the warning shot over the bow, they finally agreed. My parents after years of us feel trying to get them to move in with us. They agreed to move in with us, which was a very good thing. And then in September 2017. He had his real stroke and so while at an embolic stroke and it was he was pretty much nonambulatory, very uncooperative with the PT and OT people and IKEA crystalline checkout.

Once he moved in with our senior mom is okay she's given me in on John to take care of her. I did my job. I think it was depression and some other things going on that me Tommy didn't pick up on but anyway he had that significant stroke. He just continued to fight with this therapist and can continue to be uncooperative with PT and OT and and got worse and worse until early January where likely had another stroke.

Although, really wasn't diagnosed just looking at him and functionally. He then must been written and then accelerated my tele-staffing in October 20 19th. Now that the history and the natural course of history from NSTAR stroke to taste testing in October 2019 where I got involved when I saw this.

It was very very tough to watch that my mom, the primary caregiver.

Although all of us contributed to that and I went through a lot of emotional things and a lot of anger. Just watching him give up and lock your heart he was making light for my mom and I resented him for that and I'm not proud to admit that I just have to be on the computer. You and I talked a lot about this. You help me gave me some incredible incredible counsel. You know I was. I was really angry and and dealing with all these and then I had some personal stressors.

We have to buy my parents house from them to protect their thereafter so we had some financial pressures I left my office manager of 10 years. I had a bunch of injuries I was able to do these tough matters which had become a coping we can become a drug for me, doing all these tough matters in doing all these crazy things, but it really was just an outlet for me. But when all the injuries that my body was breaking my stress in my life was increasing, as I am sleeping less and less and less. I just completely broke down and so so I kinda collided with with caregiving very very tough lay and I became that person out there that desperately need a show like this and desperately needed support and thank God.

My wife and people kinda stepped in and I went and got Karen. I actually was diagnosed with PTSD. I had what you know back in the old days they call a nervous breakdown in acute reactive depressive episode and started taking medication, seeing a psychiatrist, which I still see not embarrassed at all to admit that you've been a lifesaver and also some therapy and implementing a lot of other changes in my life, including sleep so that was kind of my my, you talk about how I gain my reduction to it. Introduction to wisdom and any came in a in a very violent way and watch my dad and my and be and I watch my mom take care moment and it was just very, very typical milk to come watch this and he gave me an added respect for caregivers and for Peter been doing this for 30 years and out, and so mom care giving and not for cowards like that when it going.

It's going to expose your weaknesses and exposed my weaknesses and in retrospect the year year and asked after him off my medications doing much better not self-medicating with alcohol not doing all these destructive things up until about a month ago I had taken ibuprofen a crime been very healthy. Been training completely differently and taking care of my body been sleeping and I think sleep is the number one thing that I dumped myself. I did good German Shepherd dog which is a wonderful PT PTSD therapy dog and she's been a lifesaver for me.

Suddenly significant changes in our in our lives, but sleep was a terribly important component that and what I learned.

Patient caregiving was rough and it is going to expose your weaknesses, and it's going to break you. Especially if you're combining it with sleep deprivation and and one thing that that just that can chemically try to hammer home the importance of sleep. Karen and I hope for doing it. But if you ask most people what number one interrogation tool is for terrorist are not military whenever people tell probably waterboarding deprivation you sleeping that's what breaks people more than starvation, more than sleep deprivation is what and what the CIA uses what the government uses of what military intelligence uses great prisoners and so it is you do that to ourselves and ourselves well enough losses with little caregivers and myself and this is one reason just wanted just to have this conversation today and it's just I don't want to belabor the point but I think it's very important to couple reason for caprice.

I think it caregivers who do this and I said we were were often isolated, so we think it will work were the only ones with through this so morning other caregivers to hear stories to say okay, look, this is not just me of your consummate professional, very successful at what you do and you were pushing us of your smart manual of the smartest guys I know and in and yet you are pushing yourself to extremes and I look at folks who are doing this with Stephanie's children.

I look at folks like this lady with added with my tears and children. Family members with children with autism support and there pushing themselves and pushing themselves. This will not end well into things are going to happen it it and and usually the bad, and so and so what I'm asking my fellow caregivers is to take a moment to to to really take heart of these words were shared here are two guys of the tell you what. Sleep deprivation is is what it does to the human body what it does to who you are in a relationship and everything else and and I've got enough skin in this game to say this is the deal that you must must respect the trauma being inflicted to your body and and then go see your doctor that that is one of the first things I tell fellow caregivers go see your physician when's the last time you saw your doctor and be candid with you. Dr. please don't don't be embarrassed. Please do not be. And if your doctor treats you anyway disrespectfully get another doctor okay and and you cannot be embarrassed by this you have to you have to understand how much trauma is being leveled at your body. If you deal with these kinds of things and and and so and then as John shares his own journey with what happened with his father.

It was a catalyst for several things in his life and there's nothing like being a caregiver to expose the gunk this and you shall you know if there's nothing like as it will find like you said, it will find those weak spots and amplify them. I mean, it is it it intensely comes after him so I just wanted to have a bucket in a candid conversation about this physical need of sleep that we caregivers often overlook that we just we we we are running at and it would would we get a break from taking care of someone we don't know how to just stop and be cool for a while we get we night we sit there at other nerves are just frayed and and all this because things but we would say something yeah there's and I know that were were, talking more about problems and solutions here for for about how much we want to emphasize how sleep really is but I'm ecologically through this without even having to deal with it like the brain tissue. It's part of your body, your muscles in your body, your organs are part of your body and the brain is awfully complicated and like okay what so you're a lifeguard stick with me on the metaphor here so you your lifeguard and you don't have proper nutrition or whatever and you get a clamp going to save somebody and where does that person now well if your brain to sleep. It's going to get a calamity in quotation marks and you think straight about anything, so will operate as a test sleep hygiene and everything is just so important in Europe in the brain is if not, it's certainly not immune to these things. In fact, it's probably more susceptible to these sorts of things because of how can this really about the task we do is caregivers medication administration know all this because it later or do, and it still these are these are things that are important things now to pivot real quick and will take the rest the show on this to talk about wrist because sleep eight wrist that we talked about the importance of getting sleep if you feel like you just run down as a caregiver in your listing this for the first rounds I ever hear with that with the practical advice unit when the practical advice is go see your doctor make all pick up the phone and call your family care physician may care physician internal medicine Dr. and go see this physician and say look, I am under so much stress. I am a caregiver and I'm not sleeping well.

I don't know if I have a sleep disorder, whatever. If they blow you off.

You got to get another doctor okay take. I do not think it's right anyway so yeah keep court order or or they're not very well-versed in it because I truly, they will have you they will have had an interest in it and actually do some extra work and I did not have. I don't remember the goal sleep lecture in medical school. Not not want no nutrition nothing on sleep not taught in medical school, will, and that that is unfortunate. The doctor cares about sleep in and understand its value and had been a little done in work after that if you got it if you got to start off with the counselor, its first counselor to refer you to the doctor that the counselor knows it takes the source of seriously so there's this pastor, the put them out as a caregiver you have, please take charge of this issue and and make the phone call okay that's for sleep.

That's what your body needs to sleep now is talk about wrist because that's what your soul needs. And that's a bit different because when you go to lay down in bed and maybe even get a good night sleep of his first eight hours which you wake up and you're not rested because you're in such turmoil internally. How are you doing with that and I know this is this is the part of where you came in JP that that you know that when you would you're dealing with PTSD and these kinds of things you can get some sleep. Maybe. But are you resting and even through the day you to stay so keyed up and you're just you and I look at the tension that living with now. This effectively parts of my body and after surgery knee surgery that was outpatient and an unthinking I might like this one muscle crippled up like this and I realize that I'm not resting and resting is a soul decision that is that is intentional that you're going to say okay I'm going to be at peace with whatever sport around me. I don't have to calm the storm down. I just have to call me down will pass. I need to be, and and I need to breathe differently.

I need to think differently. I need to retrain my mind and I don't think I can do this but I know I can't do this on my own. That's where my faith comes in.

And that's also what comes in with having people around you that are supportive of this that are constantly reinforcing because we're going to get reinforcement either negatively or positively, and that the reinforcement positively is slow down, take a breath, just slow down, slow down, because we are we are absolutely pushing herself to the breaking point on a soul level and on a physical level, John JP jump in on that.

Yeah, one of the practices that I started which I think dovetails perfectly attentive and I started a gratitude practice and gratitude journaling and and I don't mean I think corrupt Roman Catholic and & plenty of plenty of experience of being guilty didn't and I don't want to put this on anyone as some kind of religious guilt trip or anything like that.

I just it is freedom from a IIII bought this little Christian gratitude journal and incredibly fitfully I can do it in five minutes I can do in 20 minutes. I can do it in three minutes but I basically I write down one thing that I'm grateful for this particular girl had a little scripture and additionally the Scripture and I just write down a true biblical truth and then finally someone that I could pray for sure. And often times a person is not to lose locally, very closely, and there are far away here couple weeks ago you were that person. I never told you about that starting a gratitude practice is incredibly helpful to get that solely trapped because it'll help to come to change our perspective will well said and it's it's the more you start expressing gratitude. It is intentional. By the way, is not about feeling differently. It's about just being intentional and your gratitude and meaning it does like your mom take a quick break were talking my friends on Paris in Connecticut were talking with cohost John Butler in Nashville and Ed in Dallas said hey let's go to brickle quick this is over the care of her. We are thrilled to have you with us along this journey. Caregiver.com will be right.

Have you ever struggled to trust God when lousy things happen to you.

I'm Gracie Rosenberger, 1983 I experienced a horrific car accident leading 80 surgeries in both legs and became I questioned why God allowed something so brutal to happen to me.

But over time I questions changed and I discovered courage to trust God that understanding along with an appreciation for quality prosthetic limbs led me to establish standing without more than a dozen years we been working with the government of Ghana and West Africa, equipping and training local workers to build and maintain quality prosthetic limbs for their own people on a regular basis. We purchased ship equipment and supplies and with the help of inmates in a Tennessee prison.

We also recycle parts from donated lambs. All of this is to point others to Christ.

The source of my help and strength these visit standing without.com to learn more and participate in lifting others standing without.com. I'm Gracie and I am staining with help and hope I am Peter Rosenberg. I love that with Gracie and Russ to honor Rick Negrete to wrap this up because we are in the season of Thanksgiving in October 1963 October of things. October 2 or third 1963, Lincoln established a national day of thanksgiving to be in the looming 1863, 1863, is that Leslie John 1863.

Now were in the middle of the Civil War more American lives were lost in the Civil War than they were able, one World War II want to know three know it's it still in different but but in the midst of the clearly the greatest calamity to ever face our nation. That's when a national day of Thanksgiving was established and so the lesson learned from that is, we don't have to have everything going our way. In order to be grateful and express that Thanksgiving we have a lot to be thankful for and a friend of mine told me this said this on the show many times when your mind is racing 100 miles an hour just take the alphabet first letter every letter start just come up with something. Start with that letter and be grateful for to express thanks for and when you are would you're doing this repetitively and it feels kind of the first couple times you do it. Whatever, but the thousandth time you do it you know it becomes a part of who you are and it helps settle your sold out. It's very hard to be torqued when you are grateful cotton consistently grateful yet don't immediately so, and there is a reason why we have mantras or prayers or practices of some kinds where we we cannot in the habit of doing something and being mindful about it, it can really lower their blood pressure. Call me down a little bit or no, it's this repetitive thing that you don't have to really think about the process of it and and and and becomes this habit, this little bit of comfort that you can in which you can participate and then and and and and a very predictable one.

Now, there's really nothing church you nothing because not just to say thank you and George express gratitude and I remember of the different amount told me one time because I was still kind of weird when people give me a couple minute you loved your playing the other day at church, work your show has really and I would try to diffuse.

It was some kind of self and getting humor.

He said the site is don't you Your statements is a word that I heard you now so yeah John JP take us take us into place. Gratitude. You know how that shaped your life as you started doing these things, what did you notice as you started expressed in writing that gratitude journaling things such as the big monsters got smaller and smaller. The thing he drank in the stresses and the fears they just seem to shrink a little bit and when you when you when you thinking you encounter break program. I guess your mind you, you start looking at positive things which are grateful for the things that you're blessed with the problems are still there and if you think some kind of Pollyanna thing where you can a note acknowledged the problems there, but the problems they have left it.

They said a thing. You seem to slow down a little bit. I remember my sister a lot of wonderful thing. You alluded to earlier, sometimes God comes the storm. Sometimes God comes out his child and then write and read that in any given I would always want God to calm me down in the storm because I think bravado anything, but I would rather handle that storm and in a calm and handle storks and if I'm in a calm state I'm in a good place. I'm thinking clearly and am rested. Whatever I can take that on and I can find the right resources like that you'll call the right person or get the right help or whatever but we are a mess.

It doesn't matter if the storm is calm, what did that in cheeks I notify the storm to come soon and I think gratitude can get you there in gratitude can get you to look at that storm differently.

Well there so many benefits.

Raging storms make better sailors and I don't want to think Sessa said this morning worship service is going to be learning to be thankful for unpleasant things you know in the places of Scripture says, be thankful in all things and and I go back to one of my favorite stories was Betsy Tim Boone and the Holocaust telling her sister Cory to be thankful for the fleas in their in their hut that all these women stated and Corrie 10 boom just absolutely just snarled back. She hates it. She was incredulous to be thankful for fleas, but it was the fleas kept the German guards for molesting the women and you don't you just learn to be thankful for even small things, things that you would think about me but you but you cultivate that okay I'm going to be thankful in this place and trust that I have a God that is loving me in caring for me and go to see me through this and equip me to do better through it or take me home, whatever, but he's it's it's going to still go in at a place that he wants it to go. However, pain family think it may be, and that your heart things, but there are important things for us as caregivers to understand that that you were not being punished. This is not that the wrath of God being poured out. You because you're taking care of somebody who had a stroke or somebody with disabilities.

Whatever.

But this is an opportunity for you to go deeper and deeper. See his faithfulness and his gracious mercy and why should you would not normally experience and to learn to this as we often sell the show. The goal is not to feel better.

The goal is to be better and you are spending all of our time trying to feel better. You know what life is that so last words JP then John Les will get one and only John yeah will will we were actually doing a hell. On mental health at our church. We had a clinical psychologist who came in today and in said company nurse will do what you just said you know she talked about something that we can do here on earth that will never be up to do. It had been anything and beyond is thank God it express gratitude when wearing the middle of a very difficult situation in whom are in heaven, there is a difficulty so the fact that we can do that now is just an incredible thing and and is very very empowering and and I think it unlocks all kinds of blessings from heaven. And it certainly unlocks all kinds of stress and all kinds of negative things out of our lives so that that's very amazing that she had. She had said that Megan grabbed onto that and it dovetailed nicely with what you just said there Butler, 36, well I just wanted to emphasize that I'm not interested in making and I'm not interested in God making my life easy, but I am interested to get to get a handle. You know, if it ever gets it. If it's all handed to you then.

Come on, you know that that is getting better at it and I just every guys just go read you will say that, but as it says in Dallas on the street. Here Butler for the win. The palest of both you guys are difference in me.

I am grateful for both of you and sleep and rest are two different things and I hope that we've helped point some caregivers in physical directions and a soul healing direction as well. This is the slope of the caregiver.

Please, please share this episode with somebody you love something solid hope of the caregiver.com will see you next week.

Hey this is John Butler, producer over the caregiver and I have learned something that you probably all know that Gracie, his wife lost her legs many many years ago and started a prosthetic limb outreach ministry called standing with and recently they ended up with a rather unique and unexpected partner, Peter had a conversation with Gracie and listen Gracie. When you envision doing a prosthetic limb outreach.

Did you ever think that inmates would help you do that, not in a million years. When you go to the facility run by core civic over in Nashville and you see the faces of these inmates that are working on prosthetic limbs that you have helped collect from all of the country that you put out the plea for and their disassembly sell these legs like what you have your own prosody and arms and orange everything when you see all this. What do you make me cry because I see the smiles on their faces and I know I know what it is to be locked someplace where you can't get out without somebody else allowing you to get out course, being in the hospital so much and so long and so that these men are so glad that they get to be doing as as one man said something good family with my hands. Did you know before you became an amputee that parts of prosthetic limbs could be recycled now had no idea and I thought Peg leg. I thought of wooden legs. I never thought of titanium and carbon legs and flex fate. The legs and all that.

I never thought about that as you watch these inmates participate in something like this, knowing that there there helping other people. Now walk there, providing the means for the supplies to get over there. What is it due to you, just on the heart level.

I wish I could explain to the world. What I see in here and I wish that I could be able to go and say the this guy right here Denise go to Africa with SII never not feel that way out every time you know you always make me have to leave. I don't want to leave them.

II feel like I'm at home with them and I feel like that we have a common bond that would've never expected that only God could put together. Now that you've had experience with it what you think of the faith-based programs. The core civic offers. I think they're just absolutely awesome and I think every prison out there should have faith-based programs like this because the return rate of the man that are involved in this particular faith-based program and other ones like it, but I know about this one are. It is just an amazingly low rate compared to those who don't happen and I think that says so much that doesn't have anything to do with me just has something to do with God using somebody broken to help other broken people. If people want to donate or use prosthetic limbs, whether from a loved one who passed away or you know somebody well groomed.

You've donated some of your own for them to have it, how they do that please go to standing with hope.com/recycle staining without.com/recycle backspace