Men and Relationships: What Works and What Doesn't (Part 2 of 2)

Kinsman's a lot of time away from home working on the pipeline in Alaska, but our podcast has become his wife, one on the family help my marriage by leaps and bounds so much meat and potatoes. Think about people's ground, ground I Jim Daly together we can bring real hope to marriages like kids gift today@focusonthefamily.com/real families. God is giving us amazing tools to help us to be successful at work and in as protectors of provider within our family in need to celebrate some of those are those are important tools and so were not asking men and suggesting what you need to change were encouraging them to do this just to add some other tools into their already full toolbox that will help them within their marriage within their family as they do with relationships. We just noticed there are some tools that can really really help. That's Dr. Greg Smalley describing how we as men can learn to communicate more effectively in the good news is a lot easier than you may think Greg and his brother Michael are back with us today on Focus on the Family your hostess focus president and author Jim Daly and on John Fuller John last time we had a great conversation with Michael and Greg exploring how much we men love our toolboxes and the question is do you have the right tools in the toolbox for relationship and typically the answer is going to be. Maybe not all of them and that we covered the fact that were pretty good at data collection problem-solving those things that at one point are helpful, but at another point may frustrate your wives terribly and today were going to equip you with some additional tools.

Building on the conversation last time to help you in your marriage communication. That's the basic idea here. If you missed it last time I get the smart phone app get the download of the website and listen to the program. Last time, and it's going to be fun to once again talk with Michael and Greg about both our strengths and our deficits as men and a lot of the content is from the book they were with her father the late Gary Smalley. It's called men's relational toolbox and we do have copies of that here at Focus on the Family. Click the link in the episode notes or call 800 the letter in the word family Greg Michael, welcome back to focus.

Thank you so much. Thank you for having us good to have you and let's just that quickly get a little more depth on that review. Last time we did talk about those tools that again the 8020 rule applies. About 80% of men are going to possess season 20% have different tools that they are born with their God-given. I would say but I review the source.

Greg, what were those basic things that most of us men possess. Yeah, I think God is gifted us in so many ways to be successful as a provider to be successful as a protector like I was with my my youngest daughter. She's 13 and it snowed here in Colorado so were out shoveling and I can see in our next-door neighbor. Some tire tracks because he gets up at like 530 every morning and drives far to be at his place of business to provide for his family in in so we went over and shoveled his driveway as a string to teach any going look cool like that. He's getting up that early to provide for his family. What would an amazing gift. And that's what God has equipped them to do so he's able to get up that early and drive and do all that because again those are strengths that the we possess. We possess things like being good at it.

It'll hearing the facts and in in pursuing details to figure out how we need to solve something and we have a competitiveness and can do tasks all those are our amazing tools that help us to be successful as that provider is that protector and we need to embrace those and celebrate those in in. That's a great thing and all were encouraging guys to do is to recognize those same tools that help you to be successful at work.

Probably you're going to need to use a different tool so it's not that those are bad tools that you've been equipped with but what what would it look like to develop some these other tools that will help you be just as successful with an MS those as you're talking one of the six that you highlight iMac for me. I would say the biggest take away from Greg's pressure story is for you Jim that clearly Greg does not put a lot of time into his job. Here you can shovel everybody's car so I'm just throwing it out there is a.

My idea is to replace them with another Smalley call me Greg. I'll even care G to the six that you point out the booklet just for the listeners say what they are. Yeah there's one called the open sharing tool so this is recognizing that we need to be known are wife so craved to know what's going on on the inside so when we answer non-fine. They want more and so really developing that skill. The patient listening to learning how to really feel with to empathize with our wife and our kids necessary to I know but it's it's it's such a cool example in the Bible when Jesus got to Lazarus his family to Lazarus had died in equipped with the natural tool to problem solve. Jesus shows up in you. He's going to ultimately raise Lazarus from the dead, which is the greatest problem-solving way ever. And yet I love what he models that when he got to the family. Jesus wept. He cried with them he empathize, he felt what it was like even though he knew what he was going to do why he didn't say everybody is me. I'm here Jesus.

Just relax, but he took the time because people don't care what you know until they know that you care. That's my favorite Teddy Roosevelt quote yeah now that's good and you know I'm when you think of the selfless honor tool. One of the most painful things I had to learn in July 2019. So this is fairly recently you'll never be as good as your older brother wells that you have to learn that I lived it, but this selfless honor. I want to encourage men I you I genuinely believed that I've been asked the question when our marriage is just a real critical crisis thing it just flat out got toxic. Someone asked me that you know how you done this in my answer was kind of always the same of well I claim to love Jesus.

So I need to lay down my life and walk the extra mile and love people and their being difficult and blah blah and my first coach to really help me in this time of crisis. He goes, would you mind if I push back on and I thought to push back on me wanting to be like Jesus. I I'm in know what's going on. I don't know if you're in doing those things to actually be selfless. Sounds like you've been doing a lot of those things to avoid pain and I mean I wept. It was like a Holy Spirit weeping. It was so convicting that I thought I was being selfless I thought I was doing and trying to be like Christ and then all of a sudden I have to recognize that no, I may have looked selfless, I may have even sounded selfless, but the heart behind those things those behaviors towards my wife were really selfish and were really motivated to avoid paying what a gift to be able to recognize that there seriously to see that and that kind of wrap your mind around that yeah is a great challenge from a friend. It is an and it's painful to do that but I just want to encourage get like we we really do. It is about our heart so you can learn these tools right you can do the time and energy tool the tender touch tool. These are wonderful tools but if you're not constantly aware of your heart and what's behind this right. I used to offer early on in our marriage. This is humiliating to even share and I can't believe I'm about to do it all the so I used to. I was at one point to be a masseuse like I wanted to be a massage therapist right so iMac I never knew the gift and learned that this letter and so as I learned and I used to massage your offer massages for my wife. While the problem is, every time I go, hey would you like a massage.

Really what I was wanting was sex.

My wife finally lovingly, called me outgoing hey look, it kind of feels like when you offered to give me a massage which really wanting a sex.

I just knew instantly and and I wasn't necessarily try to be manipulative for what it was that was true. She called me. I went yeah that's probably fair to. I think I would love to build have a massage just for a massage.

Those are some of those difficult conversations that the two of you have to be willing. You've got to be honest, but you need to do that out of care and concern for the person right not to punish and so what we finally figured out because she was willing to, call me out on it. We figured out that I could now go. Would you like a sport massage or a sexy massage. Well, you know, that's so true, and I think all of us.

If were open and truthful.

We do those things. Even the minor manipulations that you may engage in talking more at that bedtime moment and your wife is really quick to put two and two together you think were outfoxing that they get a ticket and it is good to be able to delineate. Let me go back for second to the first two tools that are sensually talking and listening. That's were getting at is there anything that we need to know further about that struggle that we have to do these well. How do we mentally say okay tonight I'm really can engage my wife with listening and were talking to have to set time up to do that right. How do you start a discipline to be able to do that better yet, the research actually shows that that spending about 10 to 15 minutes a day exploring the inner life versus you talk about task and to do lists and who's going to do what tomorrow makes such a big difference so win-win. Incentive trying to have a business meeting with Aaron which is easy for me to do and I'm good at that again that's one of those natural tools to come up with some questions that I can ask when I asked her this one time. So if if I need to explore your inner life 10 to 15 hits a day. What would I ask you is as clueless as I got in. It was so good for her instantly. There was no pause, she said why for and when it will guide you want to pray about and I have yet to come up with 10 to 15 how you want in, so I'll take for and she just said if you were to ask me on a daily basis how my feeling. So what's going on emotionally. How are things going relationally between me and the kids. How are things going between me and my girlfriend so friendships are very important her and then what's one thing that's been teaching you as a plate and so I'm telling you, I have those are so deeply rooted in my brain. Now that when we have some time maybe over coffee in the morning or laying in bed you know after the massage that Michael is talking about those. That's a time when when we can assess question. So ask your wife explore that what quit could I ask you, they would help me understand better who you are on the inside and I guarantee most women instantly will will have a question or two and then just be committed to exploring that asking that's that's really help me to learn have just be that that patient listener with her will and by the way, don't be embarrassed. It is not a failure of anything to have, to find question we have questions in the book. It's okay to have conversation starters. That's the number one thing that couples requested at this big survey of all of our people@smallinstitute.com and they just their number one thing they want to work conversation starters, it's not a bad sign that you don't know what to talk about me you don't really learn that growing up in with guy guy friendships and out hunting we don't we don't talk about killing things and the weather and you know going killing things and we can repeat the live influences and forgets work and and so don't be afraid to utilize questions that are already there that you can find I'm just google you know conversation starters or even Google deep questions to ask your spouse or I actually know focus at your website have a ton of those kinds of things that it's okay to print that out and put it on your phone go out to dinner and then look the car and I'm telling my wife and I've actually a lot of fun doing that because I've got a bunch of our website doing a lot of them are just fun like what you know if you could be any Marvel character, which one would you be and it sounds like a silly question how I am a marble fanatic so everyone just back off. There will be no negativity whatever so you don't.

But it really can lead to a deeper understanding of your spouse. Even with some of the group your questions so that's where I feel bad for people.

Sometimes they should belittle themselves, but will we shouldn't need. This is like what you talk about if you don't already know you want or naturally gifted at something like my brother is it everything we need to learn and so Paul, you know, having resources printing them out, pulling him up on a phone. Those are wonderful ways to utilize these tools we have. This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly and today were talking about testing the concepts in the book men's relational toolbox written by Dr. Greg Smalley Dr. Michael Smalley and their father the late Gary Smalley and we do have copies of that here will encourage you to get one call 800 a family or click the link in the episode notes Greg. Let's go into the win-win tool.

What is it, it sounds good. Everybody's a winner. But what is the win-win tool. It's really recognizing that there has to be room for both people inside the marriage and it took me a long time to really fully understand it. When Aaron and I would have to make a decision on something or were trying to discuss something. I was always prepared to defend my ideas why I thought the way I think the solution lay out in. It was so good that sometimes it was I can't remember who told me that, but it's kind like Michael your experience when a coach can encourage you think through the motivation someone said you know it we when you and Aaron tended to get in these discussions, it seems like all you do is advocate for your side and then she'll do the same thing and then maybe you guys will agree on something, and in he just said that there has to be room for both. Both have to matter, and that's really the basis of this idea of a win-win. Just recognizing that that this isn't competitive between Aaron and I she's never my adversary.

We have an enemy and he wants to kill, steal and destroy our unity, our oneness, and so we have to learn how to protect that as we go into making decisions. I say that to myself. Aaron matters will at easy example is the lights in our home is one of our biggest irritations between the two of us because I'm one of those people that I probably would never ever turn the light on and on like there's plenty of natural lights or what are you hiding I hate pain thinking in my mind I'm pain, especially if there's no one in a particular room why we have to have every lamp, every conceivable that I was another nickel.

I had to realize that Aaron matters to in that if she wants lamps on her home. Even though no one's there that that these to matter to me that's important and I told her and I said you know what I'm to argue about this it's housing this is super important. Do you in that matters to me in so I think that's a sort of attitude you people are to do. Obviously, with much greater issues than along with you know that I went on are not what I would add, though, to the win-win tool and this is something again that I've had to really learn and just come to embrace. There's also a term called compromise to win and we got to stop looking at compromising is someone's losing its know I might compromise so I can get to the wind, it's not a dirty thing and by the way, and I don't know how all of your marriages are, but my wife and I could not be more different.

I mean really stark differences between the two of us. So the reality of us ever all like consistently landing on a win-win is impossible. That's just not going to happen. We have, we took this assessment that says how many perpetual problems you have all my I mean it was like discouraging 48 every day of the have those two heaven and you know it was like wow and so one of the things we've had to learn is it's okay to disagree and it's okay the compromise to win and how does that work though because it it feels like the compromise doesn't necessarily mean somebody is and can be happy in the squish it, it's a matter of mindset right but cannot talk about Greg with the lights going recognizing that hey, it's not just about me things I like to say to husbands, especially going man the dumbest thing you ever did was get married in their lightweight but were at a marriage intensive that you're supposed to help Emily.

Well apparently you want the world to revolve around you and unfortunately when we choose to get married. That's over if not about me anymore. It's about this woman I've married and so now she her needs are more important than mine right her life is more important in my my whole job is to lay down my life in server. That's the biggest part of being a leader is a man which means that I've got to allow lights to be left on know I've seen Greg at night.

I think he is right. It's just better for it to be darker, but you go so I sheltered my so I would encourage a man on don't think of it as oh I'm losing something. Oh, know your winning you getting to serve your wife you're getting to be more like Christ you're getting the lay down your life, you're getting to be selfless and sacrificial and that's the greatest one of all.

Well, in fact he had a story in the book about. I think a guy named Troy that attempted to do that for a summer if I remember correctly what happened with Troy and his his good desire to lay his life down for the summer. It's a great story because it illustrates he had plans that he wanted to do during the summer as a teacher so get some really cool things he wanted to do but but she wanted to to do some writing in. He recognized that he and an opportunity that that he could sacrifice what was important to him for her because of her value in his mind like she gets her valuing.

He wanted to give up something for her in in in a love that in Inwood he ended up doing grown closer to his kids at me. He had the best summer because he focused more on what was going on at home. It freed her up to to be a writer in it took their relationship to such a a better level. I love it reminds me of there's a George Elliott quote this is what do we live for. If it is not to make life less difficult for each other in that. Honestly, that quote is one my favorite because I'm always trying to think how can I make life less difficult for for my wife Aaron even through covert quarantine remembered like day one. She gathered the family and said listen let me be super clear.

I can't.

I can't cook three meals a day for this entire family summit also you have to step up so we did the spiritual thing and cast lots.

I lost in in. I became in charge of cooking dinners which I just never done. She such a good cook and so is as I started to learn the to do that to cook more. Here's what was so interesting is that I found myself getting up in the morning starting to worry about. Was I going to cook that I have the ingredients would have to go to the store with actually like when what I have to start defrosting the meat in in.

I went to Aaron.

I said he did like this is happening you like to worry about the stuff she went for 28 years.

That's what I do during the days I worry about that. It was so maybe if if if you could've seen that there was such a big lightbulb went off above my head, because all of a sudden I realize that that Aaron had suffered alone in that burden thinking about dinner. I had literally no idea in what I said to her, as I said so, from this day forward. I'm a cook you're never gonna have to worry about this again because it's that idea that that I have an opportunity to find things that Aaron hates her that that that she struggles with work. She's just flat tired of doing socially alone and sacrifice and jump in to do those kinds of thing to make life less difficult for her and that that's the idea behind that tool is that we can employ that tool and in like did the teacher didn't mean it just it just was so cool how got the news that within his family. He was coaster's kids and they were closer as a couple. Now let's and on this because it perhaps is the most important to Annette's forgiveness inherits what were about as Christians it's hard to do at times depend upon the severity of the treatment that we've received. We tend to calculate it frankly right to know if I could forgive that person because they hurt me so deeply, but bring it into their marital relationship and how do we learn to forgive deeply, not just in a token way you Colossians 313 says bear with each other and forgive one another love that idea of bear with simply means. Be patient with me in. You talk about tenderness you talk about all these tools giving us the ability then to turn around into forgive if I'm willing to bear with my wife to be patient with her from willing to to give her grace, which means that I see who she really is not how she's showing up in that moment in through that grace and in inpatients. It keeps me open and it keeps God's love flowing through me so that I can then quickly forgive but you don't so often, our pride gets in the way right exactly all of the ego does and I'm I'm a simpleminded man.

I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed we were going to bring it up and find other allegories I could use it but I don't understand.

We can ask that question like July or should I forget it like this is you know what idea Jews like maybe think about it.

Yeah whatever food this is a command and the biggest part of forgiveness up. You have to understand is not another person.

This is for myself this is healing to me and and so people get hung up on that idea is like well this is an option. So how I tend to encourage someone is it's okay because Jim you said like depending on the severity of hurt that you're having to forgive. That is going to be a harder process and so if you're at a place with your wife or husband or father sibling. You might need to start it going. Lord, I know I have to.

I know this isn't an option, but I can't.

And frankly, right now I'm gonna won't so Lord, would you even just give me the desire to want to forget. We can start at that baseline. The Holy Spirit is going to come through right he will. This is guaranteed. If you're willing to ask him for it.

That is his will is for you to live in forgiveness and then don't get hung up on how many times you have to forgive.

It doesn't mean you haven't forgiven. If you're still hurting that it doesn't mean you haven't forgiven. And it doesn't mean that something is broken. If you have to continue forgiving and releasing this is a part of the human existence right this is that product of sin that yeah I might have to forgive you a thousand times for this thing and I'm gonna do it because of the benefits of forgetting not so good. And you know it, we tend to say this. John often but were talking about the normal dysfunctional relationships were not talking about where summit safety is in jeopardy and we want to make sure we say that loud and clear. If you're in that situation, you get to a safe place and that may be to get out of the house. Whatever you need and and certainly call focus call for help if that is the situation you're in. At gentlemen, this is been so good.

Michael and Greg Smalling and your late father Gary. What a great book men's relational toolbox and there's so much good stuff in here and I hope people will contact us for a copy of it up support the ministry here focus with the gift of any amount and will send it as our way of saying thank you for being a part of the ministry. Greg said it all put the bear out to the guys get the book that maybe wives you get it for your husband and circle the six tools, one over two of the six tools that you would like your husband to think about what a great way to start.

Do it lovingly do it in a fun way. Kindly but that would be a great way to start the discussion and there's one purpose and one goal in all this.

So your marriage can reflect the character of Christ and that's were about here Focus on the Family guys. Thanks for being with us. Thank you for having us Hampton honor the great conversation we've had, and I hope her heart here. It focuses come through. We want to help you in any way we can.

And so if you're facing problems in your relationship. Get a hold of us please if you'd like to speak with one of our counselors, we can make that happen.

If you have a prayer request about your family were here for you. Maybe you just want to communicate better because of a great resource. Like the book by Michael and Greg all available to you and you call 880 family. I should note that if you can make a donation of any amount today to the ministry of Focus on the Family will say thank you for joining the support team by sending a copy of men's relational toolbox and if you can support our family building efforts on a regular basis. That would be wonderful. Real families in crisis are contacting focus every day because of the generosity of friends like you. We can offer them real hope for the future, please donate and get your copy of men's relational toolbox when you call 880 family or stop by the episode notes for more. I should also mention that we have a free marriage assessment to offer you a quick overview of what's working well in any area or to the needs of health bill that stronger relationship spouse. The link is at her website coming up next time on this program. A powerful story about caring for a loved one with dementia. You see them on an even number. It felt to lay in their heart that can last the rest have Jim Daly and the entire team here. Thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family I'm John Fuller inviting you back more help you and your family driving Christ and I knew my marriage was falling apart. I just didn't know how to fix it. I felt like I would always be alone even if I stayed married at Focus on the Family's hope restored marriage intensive. We offer hope to couples in crisis so they can have the marriage they always dreamed for the first time I felt like my husband truly heard me. I received some great tools from the counselor said of change my life and my marriage to begin the journey of finding health go to hope restored.com today