Letting God's Light Shine Through Your Marriage

Yes using your marriage seem insurmountable. You can break free from cycles of pain with help from Focus on the Family's hope restored marriage intensive. We helped thousands of couples who thought that their marriage was over. Find out which program is right for you and hope restored.com when you look at what do you see is this a trap.

It sounds like a trap. Answer the question. Well, you're very pretty nice smile of your dress got a great personality profile. I want the true honey I think you're perfect just the way you are weight come back.

What did I say well maybe you had a conversation like that with your spouse can there be anything more awkward than asking someone what they really think you and seeing you today on Focus on the Family were to be exploring how to bring more transparency and authenticity into your marriage and your hostess focus Pres. and Dr. Jim Daly I'm John Fuller, John. This topic sometimes is daunting to me personally but I think men in general are trying to open up with your feelings and even use that terminology return off.

It's hard to do. It's doesn't come naturally.

I think you look at the brain chemistry of you know men are quite wired the same way as women are women are the got twice the connections between the two hemispheres of the brain that are constantly thinking about things and their feelings but for us it can be like wow what a waste of time you really want to go to the feelings of things and so for the guys listening to hang with this.

We understand your pain and for the women listening. We are going to talk about how perhaps your man can get a little more in touch emotionally with you and working to get some great ideas both of you to really improve your marriage today yeah and this works both ways. I think for husbands like you and me and for wives as well.

It's a struggle at times to be vulnerable and when we go, what unlimited doesn't go so well. We feel invalidated or distant and disconnected that happened from experience here. Just last night we had a little argument and its icy cold in the bedroom emotionally and I'm reading the prep for this broadcast interview and it just felt a little awkward, but that's life.

It's funny is the title of the book see through marriage. So you're laying in bed last night reading see through marriage and your dinner is thick veil of darkness in our relationship to get all of the florescent not always right away but always gets well that is super vulnerable. Thank you John will explore that more. Hey, if you haven't already figured that this is obviously a common issue in marriages. We have two wonderful guests today, Ryan and Selena Frederick. They are author speakers and podcast host. They started fierce marriage.com in 2013. After they felt God calling them to openly share their own marital struggles with others which let me just say I appreciate what you just said John that's where people connect. I mean people are not perfect.

If you have figured that out. Not particularly. Maybe Christian leadership were as vulnerable as anybody else. And when we put that façade forward that somehow were perfect. That's wrong right and Selena, let me say welcome back to focus and I should note that the Fredericks have written a number of books and one really zeroing in on today is called see through marriage experiencing the freedom and joy of being fully known and fully loved and you can get your copy. We got the link in the episode notes. Let's get right into it. Describe what transparency is supposed to look like and then explain why you say it's both our greatest desire and our greatest fear I can relate to the fair part, yes, yes, that's a big big topic big question I think it's tricky is not easy to nail down. That's one of the reasons why we wrote this book is because people want this level of being known and they want this level of feeling love because they feel fully known. And so what is action look like in marriage and in biblical relationship. I think we see a picture of that of the passage that we can focus on is in first John chapter 1 walk in the light as he is in the light so that we can have two things fellowship with one another and in Klansman rights and so what is it mean to have a transparent marriage. I think it's just being not hiding anything and that's easier said than done. Yeah I say one of the challenges sometimes in counseling you know they will coach you to not necessarily share everything you know when I was 15. I did this or when I was 18 I did that. Yeah. Is there room for you know being wise there and not being silly and said that we look at the end purpose of transparency right it's not just to share all of our dirty laundry and rehashing crime scene things that we've experienced in our marriage are outside of our marriage that really the purpose is to say, this is an experience I had and it might be contributing to the struggles that we are having on say has contacted that's good I like that you compare our transparency to the stained-glass window affect your book cover is awesome. It's got holes punched through a stained-glass window, affect gene, and how much she liked it but what you getting out there that are our transparency is like a stained-glass window. Yeah. So we spoke to the context. The end in mind, which is to watch as Christians. What is our purpose right to glorify God and as John Piper would say enjoy him forever right that sort of thing and so stained-glass. The picture we kind of zeroed in on and that imperfect shards of glass were different shades different colors exiting from experience we had. We got engaged St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York City and is just so beautiful and I remember thinking about that just being in awe of how wonderful this intricate design was and as we write in this book. I was thinking. Highly thinking is constantly a good for you but what made it beautiful was the light right and so our role is really to be. I guess vessels of the light rights in the Gospel of John. That's what John the Baptist it is I'm not the light but I'm here to tell you about the one who is the light right on the first verse of the light that shown in the darkness and the darkness is not overcome it is Jesus. That's a rule that's what transparency is important. So how did that idea come to you this is your moment I'm given it to you now. I just when were talking about being see-through and being transparent and knowing knowing ourselves, scene ourselves rightly right through the lens of the gospel and so when I'm when I can see who I am.

See the flaws that are inside of me know that those are there for a purpose. They're not just there to hurt the people around to live in darkness and shame and isolation that they there because God has allowed them and they add DNA had purpose wins only when he is shown to that. So not only is he to the gospel kinds out of the darkness based clients into the light rights of the things here's the problem we as human beings. Maybe because that's the nature that we have like that you know we do hide. And we do pull back from being exposed and I guess let me ask a two-part question, you guys go for a why do we do that as rational people and maybe the answer is right there because were not rational, but we see that covering up is in the short run, a better move than being transparent and I think even look at Adam and Eve in that regard. Right yeah just like them right when they send, they would be do they ran and hid.

They felt naked and ashamed. Whereas they had been naked and unashamed.

Previous to the fall and then God seen walking through the cool of that. We all know the story released probably know the story and he said where are you will that's got BCC like come clean on the tell me recognize what happened here and I think anyway. Our tendency is to do that. I love this quote can't member verbatim but Jerry Wilson wrote this in its said Adam and Eve when they send in the garden. They ran and had behind the trees and he says I think they're onto something.

Not today.

We have a tree we can run and hide behind the tree is the cross of Christ. And so I think the fight that tendency is to admit the authority in the truth of the gospel and to really pin your identity on that and the trust that I think that's the fight of the Christian life and marriage and parenting and just living is to constantly believe repent and believe the gospel more fully so that I can actually live in full light of it and that's what's important marriage because we see marriage as an avenue for this this application to continue happening and that's what the books really all about.

Yeah, you know, I want to go there and I in the open. I talked about brain chemistry and all that and I know some say will I'm more like how men act in my husband's more like out and I get that it's kind of the 8020 rule. But how much of that plays into our guess our inability to especially his men all just ask you Selena. You notice me as a husband I mean this is for GNI. This is our thing in our marriage and she's she just feels like I'd I'm not as connected emotionally. Some of that's trauma in our childhood, I'm sure it's survival instinct. How do we as men become more aware. How do we know engage our wives. It's a little frightening to us on the biggest thing is knowing them knowing how they feel left.

Often times I think he projects how I feel left the words of affirmation, so therefrom, and to give my husband words of affirmation when maybe that doesn't value does all that and right so kind of began learning I love language understanding and you mention family margin and past time. I think I can identify with that of not knowing how to always receive the love and I think maybe women in a come from a generation of divorce, and men falling out of the household and sell, then I'm looking at him trying to connect with him and letting him and align him to love me, but that can be a struggle because I haven't identified that as an email knowing Aceves you thought any that's a discontents, and I appreciate that Selena can so often. I think in my own experience, I feel like Jean's expectations are so high. I only got one route and that's disappointment as I can get on that highway with you but know she has an expectation for credit. Two years ago or so you you had some painful experiences, your memories of your family describe what happened there so people can latch onto this just yeah so basically God had been kind of softening my heart to this thing and it took months, probably for me to get to the point that I'm in explain here, but basically had been remembering things from childhood like 910 1112 years old around there that we just made me feel shame and the details are honestly that importantly, everybody has something in there that's like it's just, squishy yellow and the noun right yeah whatever it is, and I was like yeah that's not relevant to our marriage. I'm just just on it for whatever reason, but I'll need to deal with it like a kind of pushing it down to the Holy Spirit would not let that remain right and so I was in church one morning in communion and I was just an I just felt this clear is that you need to just be transparent in this you writing a book on this right and try to live this and so anyway that's called conviction right so inconvenient and so on the way home from church to say I got talking about drinking and I said this said, I need to tell you something's missing know it's from a long time ago but I let it be known in this way, and so your counseling is kinda like on pins and needles right. We talk a lot going home. We went out to lunch with the kids they had God's grace. They all fell asleep in the car and so we have this private moment like you to say this is an is put all out there and your reaction. I thought you can just reject me. And just like biscuits on my face and and make me feel more shame and I was going out on a limb and instead she says hate stealthy love you more. By the way, here's how I can be vulnerable and I start to start sharing all these things that she had kind of been feeling the same level of conviction on in the known hour later before close. Never static, it stuck and agrees me to hear that. My husband thinks that this is a way out rest… He doesn't I don't get has very little to do here is the fear that we create that if I am transparent to get crushing because it's not healthy. It's not right right right and that how does a couple and you know how to they have their moment like you were there communion that's pretty profound yeah how do you begin to set that up with honey, I want to tell you something that's going to really be hard to hear. I'm a big fan of keeping it up and saying it we need we need margin to talk about this. Let's set a time set up a place. Let's make sure we have in our because I want to talk to about an important thing I think I come more prepared. Selena comes more prepared you are asleep or whatever that thing is. And we can actually instead of just throwing it out there and having it be you can work both ways again so I don't mean to put the shoe on 1 foot, but Selena do your representing all females here. I mean in that regard. How does a woman use. You know, kinda in a good place. She's healthy spiritually healthy emotionally. She's got some concerns for her husband's inability to be transparent, emotionally how if that moment comes and he's gonna tell you something. How do you want to say insurer but I don't think you can.

But how do you react in such a way that allows you to have continued transparency and you don't really step on his oxygen hose that's got to be hard to especially if it's tough news. No previous relationship before you got married, whatever it might be what coaching do you have or the wife particularly said bite your tongue and how do you respond if it's not a positive thing. The light is so faithful.

I think the Holy Spirit is so faithful to shopping your own heart and in your own life and knowing how much God's grace is extended to me and therefore I can see how delicate the situation.

This is in my response is so important at that moment FI clamped down that oxygen house it's gonna kill an account and I remember I vividly remember one of our first really hard conversations is kind of pie. Three. Four years in our marriage as talking about certain addictions or something and he shared with me in.

I was, I felt that I was like God has given me this position of either helping my husband really help you and step into that role or really cutting him off and allowing sin and brokenness to just take over and I felt the Holy Spirit was just seen. Just let him just extend grace by extending grace.

You are not permitting you're not allowing you not seen, this is okay what you're saying is I have grace for you. I have forgiveness for you. This is what I've experienced in Christ. Let's do this to get us walking us together because he's not alone. We are one that whatever his struggles might be those in mind as well. So who am I the Lord. Anything over anyone so I can then come alongside and it's a joyous role. Honestly, to step into to be able to really I think help and love your husband you man. You know that that's the call of marriages and carry each other's burdens in a way that nobody else really can.

So our guest today on Focus on the Family or Ryan and Selena, Frederick, and they've written a great book, see-through marriage experiencing the freedom and joy of being fully known and fully loved and it will encourage you to get a copy when you call 800 K in the word family were stop by the episode notes for more. Let's move to another area in your book, see-through marriage refer to a financial study of 2000 Americans that revealed some fascinating things about our hidden selves.

The study said were like superheroes in reverse. Okay. Explain that to me. Yeah it's such a weird concept to me but basically the Zeitgeist writer what people do online is so different from their real lives and soliciting as a hero right where superhero has a secret identity and that secret identity is their common man right in the superheroes, the one every knows about and they lived the regular life will superheroes in reverse is that there everyday life is too mundane for them to share with anyone else there embarrassing or embarrassed by only put on this façade online and so one of things of the study that revealed his people would were putting on this front of being financially successful. Right. This is a big study. Thousands of people and then over half of them were crying and have been like they had noted crying in private in the past like month in the past week about money yeah and so with that revealed his tendency that social media does kind of Breeden's exploits in us is to put on the façade of what we think is valuable or important are worthwhile and and then we believe in his private lives that we hidden that obsolete leads over in our marriages as well. Selena in that vein, let me ask you about again, particularly women, who struggle portraying their homes with their kids in the perfect way to get embarrassed about something you refer to it in the book is a beautiful mass so you're a mom of three young girls you must be feeling like you're always behind you never be on top of everything and get everything done and make sure all the homework I me all that I get it. So what is a beautiful mass look like in emotionally. What does that speak to wife in a mom's heart. There's been a theme. I think in the past had St. let 5 to 8 years of that beautiful mass and look at me I'm just kind of hold it together fallen apart all these enough pictures as either perfection or total mass right. There is no in between, and I think that I think the tide is shifting a little bit.

At least it has in my own heart of sane that can be mass, but there can be beauty but it doesn't have to be either/or, and I think the transparency aspect of this emotionally like you just have to slow down.

You can't do it all and you have to admit Dan asked, trying to take on those roles of doing all the things keeping all the house clean all of what are the that words that are going to your head with the script that your hearing and listening to is it one from the Lord because I don't remember him saying that he had to do all these things to be or is it when you plan yourself or one that's been evening on social media to matching your hearing this script as lies of this is, however, that he lives.

They have super clean houses.

They have 20 children super clean house at home educate all the things it's perfect. Then again, that's a lie. It's a façade and sell the beautiful mass piece felt like an excuse to sit and be transparent without the context of why transparency is not just to be transparent and honest because who doesn't love watching you know of a beautiful mess unfold before them know that the point is to be sent to move past it to me right past the sentiment asked the dysfunction to move into holiness and flourishing MS the first numbers right exactly read it yet. Selena you write about isolation marriage were were tempted the key problems hidden from our spouses. I think you can relate to that just sounds like a lot of work and if I say that I'm a man were to be talking about it for months to come, but the irony is those that's the very thing that develops that intimacy that strengthens us.

So it's a weird contradiction, but you know the obvious questions. What's wrong with the silent approach. I mean, is it really worth it is the payoff of intimacy worth sharing my deepest thoughts absolutely my conversation my head all the time.

I really need to bring this up again downright fine Holy Spirit is so good and faithful right to lead us again back into the light. The only weed so desperately like he said want that intimacy with our spouse. They want to be known. We want to be loved, but the only way to experience time to engage in.

That is to be transparent is to share those hard and dark places.

Well, that makes me think of something else you mentioned in the book about being generous in your communication and you know that's always a good thing, especially as believers in Christ, we don't always attain that but we aim for that. So what does generosity and communication look like it's really tough. I think it's really good spot in our marriage we can listen to each other more generously more charitably, and that I can hear past her words. I can hear what she's actually meaning to say in the heart behind. She's trying to say and then one of the big speaking of young Ryan early married Ryan terrible habit I had was Trent was using words arguments to kind of belittle my wife which is an insidious manipulation thing that so many men do, and I've repented of it and hopefully grown out of it but actually instead of throwing her own and arguing her into a smaller place I can actually say I think what you're trying to say is a lie and I think if you like that sense to hide. I don't know how to read into the past that life you don't know just ask questions asking questions such a great way to understand where your spouse is coming from us questioning and I now think of your tone and saying I'm trying to understand you lovingly like I want to help. How can. Here's my question. Later that night. My issue is more like finishing sentences. Okay, let's go, let's go. That's probably not a good woman in the coaching you give me there don't finish he's pretty good with that I like. Can you just let me tell you what I'm thinking. You tell me what I'm thinking those the other day were we run, walk, and you just went off like 20 minutes it wasn't me it was about other things that is trying to articulate back and I think you felt very loved. After you've been heard and then you want to hold my hand the rest connected. That's that that's the thing. If men really understood this. That intimacy emotionally that you create.

It benefits the entire relationship and in so many wives desperate for that you do relate marriage to cooking and of course I've got to get in and figure out okay. How does that work in the ingredients, but what was your point in that sample of how marriage is like cooking so this is a long story short. Basically, we got into this I got in this new cooking method called sous vide which is basically you put meat in the bag, and you put in hot water and cook the precise temperature.

It's this tool is a tool that you caught me in anyway really easy to work with in the what I love about it, as it removes all the variables right to worry about love and temporarily have known the barbecue and it gets burned. It's very predictable and controlled and so complicated it's actually say some time to write to rots, but the point in the book was that by removing always from variables next focus on what matters is the meat of the conversation, so communication that would be timing. Is this a good time people tired and hungry, whatever that is or in-laws house is not a good time to have this fight of the kids crying in the backseat right is that a good time to remove those variables. Next, get down to the meat of the conversation. Now that's good. I think a good place to in today is the example of what a couple good for you. I'm assuming it was an older couple. I don't know, but you were kind of in a bad place and they must've observed it or heard something that was said.

Then they engaged with you I think you know, for those of us that are doing okay might be able to do that. This is a great opportunity to become a mentor fact, we want to encourage people to mentor look at your neighborhood with your church and if you know you're a seasoned married couple you been through some things and know some things. It's a great thing to do, but what happened in your case, so this was actually in the section of the book that talks about see-through community, see-through friendships. As we talked about one-on-one friendship and community dangerous right when he talked about Christian community, specifically with other Christians not just good friends like you have Christian friends who are Christians, but Christian community is meant to fill a specific role in the life of a Christian and for us as a couple that there actually younger than us by about three or four years and we had been having a rough month. I will say an ongoing kind of and they bring it to them, but they they saw it and they said he is looking for lunch after church or government lectionary total sabotage right like they were really kind and it misunderstands that they were seeing this and you guys do mind can we talk about the things a lightbulb moment for us as we realized without them without Christian community, we would've never seen this we would never, I would've never been humble pacifically. Ryan was humble to awaken longer texture more accurate. You are welcome that the intervention I mean, they laid it out saying that sometimes it's easier to go and eat with someone and talk about something because you are more reserved and conscious of how you speak to your spouse and what is reveal about the problems and comments are dealing with South. Yes, I was very grateful for that intervention. Very grateful for that involvement when it's a good reminder of how critical relationships are beyond your marriage for me and that is the number one relationship beyond your relationship with God is your relationship with your spouse and you've done a wonderful job and see-through marriage. You could put any word in the right see-through friendships right it does fit in how you become more transparent, more vulnerable and in doing so, how God uses that to strengthen the tether between you. That's the irony and we all need to trust more in God's approach. That way, and the fact that as we share the particularly with our spouse, how it strengthens our relationship and now speak to the guys you gotta open up got to do this because your wife and your spiritual leadership.

It really sets the tone and I can tell you I don't always do a good job that I'm trying and I'm trying to be mindful of it but you have to think about it and don't shrug it off and this is a great book to begin the dialogue. If you cannot, and in that place in your relationship. See-through marriage is a great tool for you and we want to make it available to you so if you can you make a donation of any amount and will get it to you as our way of saying thank you if you can afford it. We believe in the contents of much we want to help your marriage and we believe there are supporters that will take care of the cost of putting this resource into your hands donate and get your copy of see-through marriage when you call 800 the letter a in the word family or just look for the link in the episode notes and we also have a free marriage assessment. I think well over a million people have taken this now. It's a very quick it gives you an overview of what's working well in your marriage and area or to work on hand again. This assessment is free and the link is in the episode notes right in some way a great conversation and again I so appreciate your transparency that helps the rest of more transparent think on behalf of Jim Daly and the rest of the team here. Thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family I'm John Fuller inviting you back.

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