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A Long Term Care Plan

Finishing Well / Hans Scheil
The Cross Radio
July 9, 2022 8:30 am

A Long Term Care Plan

Finishing Well / Hans Scheil

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July 9, 2022 8:30 am

This week, special guest Tom Griffith is sitting in for Hans. The topic this week is about having a plan in place when it's time to start thinking of long term care. What type of questions and conversations do you need to have? What type of legal documents do you need before you start talking about funding?

Don’t forget to get your copy of “The Complete Cardinal Guide to Planning for and Living in Retirement” on Amazon or on for free!

You can contact Hans and Cardinal by emailing or calling 919-535-8261. Learn more at  Find us on YouTube: Cardinal Advisors.


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Best-selling author and financial planner helping families finish well for over 40 years of finishing well will examine both biblical and practical knowledge to assist families in finishing well, including discussions on managing Medicare IRA long-term care life insurance and investments and taxes. Now let's get started.

Finishing well, finishing well is a general discussion and education issues facing partner advisors. I'm sure I'll see if Pete insurance this show does not offer investment products or investment advice welcome to finishing well today with regard will surprise for you. It's not what certified financial planner on silence with certified financial planner Tom Griffith were so excited to have you with us as before.

You know we've had you on the show before Tom. We never had you actually is the host so it's pretty exciting.

I'm excited.

Headset this show today is a little different. We talk about long-term care. Many times, but today were talk about a plan not not out of fund the plan, but actually what is the plan for you, as the case may be an end and to talk about that you know from a Christian perspective. I don't know if you're familiar but I hope you are with Corrie 10 boom as she was wonderful Christian lady that helped the Jews during World War II protected many of them her family did there in Holland when the when they were being sent off to concentration camps and unfortunately one of her fellow fellow Dutchman betrayed them and turn them into the Nazis and she her father was actually put in prison died within a short period of time, her brother as well and she and her sister both went off to the worst of the worst concentration camps, her sister dying within a few months of that and then Corey went on to this phenomenal ministry and I hope you seen a movie the Billy Graham did her or hurt her. Her books are familiar with your ministry. What you may not be familiar with that. She had a stroke when she was 83 and the last five years of her life. She was silent and factors in the book called the five silent tears accord 10 boom and that the point was is that for her. You know God provided her with some wonderful people to help her. I you know, I've seen interviews of the British lady that that was her personal assistant. During this time and that she could. She knew Cory so well she could read things through her eyes and know God. It just helped her to have a plan for that particular situation were to come up. She had the people to do the legal things for her because really she just wasn't able to speak the last five years of her life and so as we not necessarily so easy. Think about how were going to plan for these things. Tom it's it's critical to just have a plan, not just the funding of the plan but you know what are we to do the equity right and so often times on the show and in and in our practice we jump to talk about the insurance, long-term care insurance and how do we pay for this and we miss and I think it important to think about what the plan is initially if you need to have a plan in place the Internet can be a way to fund a plan, but without that plan in place from the beginning. You know, it's hard to know what to do and so we have a video that we've put up on our YouTube channel. That really has walk-through what the plan really entails. And then we can talk about how to how to fund and so I've autoimmune disease. I'm young. If you don't know me on much younger than Hondas and about three years ago I ended up in the hospital and was there for about a month and then left in a wheelchair. I mean, I couldn't walk for three or four months and it was just out of nowhere mean no notice, no sign that it was coming and that just hits you, and so fortunately have recovered well but you know I had some new document in place already. Fortunately, in the my wife stepped in and really she really had to provide a lot of on the care and that's what ends up happening is this burden gets put on the family members and absence of a plan and some are talking about a long-term plan were really talking about several factors. The first being just the legal documents to allow someone to step in and provide the care or answer questions or make decisions on your behalf. So those are really come down to several ones, but the two most important ones are going to be a healthcare power of attorney and then a durable power of attorney or financial power of attorney, and these are document legal document that you have stated who you want and who has the ability to make decisions on your behalf and for the healthcare one is around healthcare decisions in a surgery unit should be go into this facility. Should we not, should we go home anytime there is a healthcare decision that needs to be made and you are no longer able to make it that healthcare power of attorney is going to step in and do that for you. I believe a lot of us know that's that's where you tell people look I don't want to be artificially kept alive for years. You know that you know that's part of that. The importance of that document right exactly in the neck can be also be sometimes taken into account under what's called a living will earn advanced directive, but sometimes those are combined yards telling your loved one instructions of what you want have happened and really the United it's good to have these conversations with you know your spouse is oftentimes his name to the power of attorney, we do make the point is this your you need a name contingent power of attorney's as well. And so if you think about this and hopefully you may need this document for years into the future. Once you get older and your wife or your spouse or husband is going to be similar age to you, presumably. And so it's important to have someone else who can step into that role and so Hans and he goes over this in his video, his wife Rhonda is named as the power of attorney that his two sons are named as contingent power of attorney.

If and when this plays out the way he thinks it will in the future is to be his son stepping and really helping provide that care and so you need to really think through who those are going to be in some time that more obvious than others.

You know sometimes we have single people coming that don't have kids that we don't have someone who is Mexican be billed to step into that role in Milton. Often times, a nephew or nieces or someone that they trusted the church, someone that they know well that can make those decisions for you, but the healthcare power of attorney allows them the ability to make those decisions. Power of attorney has just say Tom that it leads to the really important conversation right between you, your spouse, or this person that you get a name right that that they it leads to a conversation before you name them on a legal document that you know that they are aware of what you of what you're doing and it really is just a big part of the plan that gets implemented that there is a plan right after you mean it it it doesn't lead to may need to have a conversation with them and imparted a conversation on them agreeing to do this, but also kind of understanding what you want to have happen. And so I think that leads into the financial power of attorney does a similar role on financial institution banks, investment accounts can make real estate transactions. They can really help with the funding of things that, leads into the overall point we want to make on this video if you need to have those legal documents in place to allow for your loved ones to make decisions for you. Given the legal ability to do that. You still need to have a separate plan in place really a written out plan of how you want to receive the care and for that different than the legal document the legal documents give them the right to do it.

But then the long-term care plan is really where you're laying out, you know, where do I want to receive care is that at home. Is that not mean I think Rob you had your your dad was kind of in the situation I don't think he had necessarily a plan or maybe you can talk a little bit about what that looked like when it came time to let him go somewhere that we definitely lifted out and just to begin with. Fortunately, about six months before he fell night starting doing the show with Hans and so we had we had just finished his you know, power of attorney's and all that stuff.

It's fascinating to me how we just got it done in almost immediately after he fell some of people came in and essentially ripped him off selling in this alarm system charged him over $12,000.

Told him a bunch of stuff because he was just getting kinda incapacitated. We demand to be at home the day that they called on him and the next thing you know he was on the hook for $17,000 had no understanding of what it happened, but because I had that power of attorney and got involved in it quickly. We were able to totally unwind but what would've been you know what hello 10 $15,000 problem because I had the documents but you're right he he didn't have. We never have those discussions of dad what you want it and I wish you know I could have a redo I go back six months before he fell and be able to have those conversations with them because I think the last year of his life would've been a lot more pleasant, sure, and fortunately we see that happen all the time where there were two conversations and these are not fun conversations to have me you're talking about possibly needing help with doing things that you kinda hope you never need help with. Consider not fun to have, but they are extremely important in some of the things that you need to talk about and really write down in this plan is where you want to receive care is that at home. Do you want to go to a facility there. We have some clients that a lot of times these are single people that they would prefer to go to like in independent living and assisted living facility, as opposed to staying home because it just can be lonely at home.

I mean if they're not there needing help and they can't get out at their home by themselves that they can be lonely for some people want to go home. I would say more times than not, they will. They want to stay at home as opposed to go somewhere and that's an important pieces like I want to receive my care at home under all you know if it might help allows that I can stay here another part of the plan is paying for the plan is.

Sometimes we have a long time to people come in redoing financial plan for them and they have plenty of money they can find they can pay for this care just out of their money and not really been any issue but it becomes a problem of the kids are coming and their dad has fallen of them on the phone or they might have dementia and they have the money they know they have the money that they don't know which money to use to pay for the care and so having it would've been very helpful in the scenarios to have the parents write down okay here's the account that you go to first to pay for my care and I want you to sell this piece of real estate. I want you to go to my IRA to mean whatever that plan is need to have something written down, telling them how you want them to pay for the care that you cannot potentially receive part of that is tax implication is okay if you go here and fill here does that incur taxes coming due report from the IRA and have the tax built other companies that we sell property and have a capital gain per minute. Each taxation is little bit different and it's important to think through what one you what you would want to have happen in that scenario and then communicate that with your loved one, for they know how to pay for the care once they know where that carrot can be provided. Now you can tell we were loaded for bear today on the long-term care plan hardly just talking plan here for the most part today with Tom Griffith. He is a certified financial planner with cardinal who brings you to show Cardinal usually Hans Sally talked about his book the complete cardinal guide to planning for and living in retirement. It's all there a cardinal and then as Tom was mentioning. They did a beautiful video on this very idea of creating this plan and I with the board that shows you all sorts of things that were talking about and that's there and cardinal advisors that you two so cardinal advisors on YouTube order cardinal and again you can contact Tom errantly contact Hans and wouldn't be right back with a whole lot more on long-term care plan. Hans and I would love to take our show on the road to your church, Sunday school, Christian or civic room.

Here's a chance for you to advance the kingdom through financial resources and leveraging Hans expertise and qualified charitable contributions veterans aid and attendance, IRA, Social Security, Medicare, and long-term care. Just go to Cardinal and contact Tom to schedule a live recording of finishing well, your church, Sunday school or civic contact times and cardinal guide back that's cardinal welcome back to finishing well, a certified financial planner today. Tom Griffith and of course always brought to my Cardinal would probably have Hans back next week but today were talking about a long-term care plan. What exactly conversations need to be had and what kind of legal documents need to be had before we ever get to the funding partner can talk about that but I know that just by listening to this broadcast. I'm hoping you're going to get some information may be really really helpful because we just you know when I went through this with my dad. We just did not know what our options were so after he fell he broke his neck and any was having trouble walking again and so they're like we gotta go to rehab.

We did not know that we didn't necessarily have to go to rehab and I something I found out later that not only could we have taken them home.

At that point in time and what he was getting it rehab. He would've gotten at home that would been paid for through actually at that point in time. His Medicare supplement they has Medicare supplement would've paid for it and he never had to go to that rehab which was essentially a horrible nursing home that was just he ended up falling there again because of the way they took care of them.

It just made so much so much, much worse had we not realize that we could've gotten that carrot home.

It could've been really a big difference in his life, but some were just hoping that through listening to this.

Maybe you can hear that hey when they do say you gotta go to rehab know you don't just have to go to rehab you can get that carrot home and if you've got the right stuff in place right it can get paid for either through your insurance or my dad would have the money to do it at home too and it would've saved all the aggravation it would've saved Tom yeah not a very important thing to know is that you have options and you have the doctor. The hospital generally the start of the hospital is they might provide the option of a might just say you have to go somewhere and they don't really tell you there's an alternative, and a lot of times the hospital, especially the nurses that are trying to they don't understand how the insurance works either if they might be thinking you don't have any choice.

And so it is important to know that there are options you really need to have an advocate there helping you because you sorted by definition it hard for you. You don't know what options are and you really just focus and try to get better.

And it's important to have these conversations with your family. Whether that spouse, their children to be able to step in and really look after you and really make sure that the right thing of the decisions are made on your methods are made on your behalf interruptus point a lot of you don't even know the option for hopefully through the listening, and hopefully listen to more than just this episode is that you can really you know, come to learn what the meat options are, but I thought we could do on this kind of next after the show is talk through a case where we had someone come and that was worried about long-term care we help them put the plan together, and now we are working on how to fund this plan and said this husband and wife had a pretty large IRA balance. You can do this with smaller balances, but they had a large IRA balance to the doctor in another state and was really worried he'd seen it happen and in some of his patients and some family members of really needing an extended amount of care, something that lasted for a while and three came in with the goal of wanting lifetime benefits which there are some companies out there still selling lifetime long-term care benefits, and he was interested with, hybrid long-term care policy that mixes together life insurance and long-term care and so what he did with he thought he put a missile transfer from his IRA of $350,000 into long-term care hybrid policy. What he got for that was the death benefit and again this covers both him and his wife, and they got a death benefit of $356,000 where he never needed care. Human heart or his wife never needed care. They would have this death benefit they going their kids if they needed long-term care, it would pay 11,000 a month forever after lifetimes that they needed it for 10 years they would keep paying out for that amount of time and so we don't need to get too far into the specifics of the policy, but this was the plan they had in place to help pay for the long-term care plan. The entrance in place to pay for the plan to be put together and their goals were to stay at home. They had to go to an assisted living facility. They wanted to bring you know help people. Professionals coming in to provide the care while the healthy thousands, coordinating it, and then the nurses are the care providers are coming in and doing the heavy lifting and so a lot of times we have clients that come in and say my family can provide that care for me and it is true. Your family can be involved, but you really need to think or do you want them doing the heavy lifting. Do you want them doing debating trying to get you in and out of bed, getting the heavy lifting. Like I send out a pretty big guy and my dad lost a ton of weight when it came time and when he actually was on the floor and I couldn't get them up. I mean, we ended up having to call the months you know there was nothing we could do. We couldn't get a mop and so yeah are you everyday. Having a be able to do the heavy lifting and also want to mention two real quick times that it was $11,000 apiece and so if they were both in facilities at the $22,000 for life as long as Amy had a month exactly right.

So there is a scenario both of them got sick the same time.

It is 11,000 per piece of it could get potentially $22,000 a month which is not were hoping for me that neither needing care but if that were to happen. It's a really nice benefit to be coming in to help pay help pay those expensive and I think to piggyback on Robbie story so I was sick I mentioned earlier in the share of the one of the now is sort of funny at the time was not, but I was a not been in the hospital for about maybe is a week or so and I was feeling pretty gross. At this point I really wanted to shower and I had convinced myself that I could make it to the shower you with the use of a walker I could get there and bathe in the halfway there. My wife is there, helping me about halfway to the shower we realized when I can make it. I just wasn't strong enough to do it and so now are stuck there with a walker. She turned to hold me to keep me from falling, trying to call the nurses to come in and get me and it's just, you know she's strong. She's young and strong and she physically could not move me to get me back in the bed to stay safe and so fortunately I didn't fall. I didn't get further hurt, but often confident that happening is the fall again you get re-hurt and then it just makes matters worse.

And so you really want professionals doing the harder stuff that may be, you know you have been trained to do it in any of the end of that story.

The nurse came in she was smaller than my wife, but she manhandled me back in the bed because she just knew how to do. She had been beat out.

She knew all the tricks of the trade.

If you will but back to the long-term care three is a couple came in and they brought on board. They applied and then what happens is the wife gets declined because there is underwriting for the policy and so she they applied they were all for it and then they turned her down, which can happen. And for now are sorted back to the drawing board where the husband and the wife still need this care, they still need something to help pay for this plan. They put in place and so what we did with the husband was able to get the policy cost a lot less doubtful in covering one person that was like about to 25 or so, the post 350 13 know we still did the IRA transfer for much smaller amount still provide 11,000 a month benefits for lifetime, but it was just on him and then for the wife. We switched over to look at a short term care policy and so this is actually the same policy that Robbie bought for himself on what it does and we probably had to Very good policy on it's not lifetime benefit.

Like the other one. But what you get if you get a year of care at home, which is tremendously helpful if you needed in the new year year. ^ A facility like an assisted living or nursing home and so there separate benefits you have potentially two years for the care and that the rookie on the policy of the underwriting is much less expensive as it does not cause nearly all the premium is less but it also is less restrictive and who can qualify who can actually get to the policy and so this worked out really well. The wife couldn't answer all the questions now, we put in the application sheet we kinda match the policy out for her were she gets about 9000 a month at a facility than 1200 a week for a year of home healthcare to really help cover her portion of that and then the husband still has the bigger policy, and so all of these are ways to help fund the plan, but I think to take it back to the initial point. If you need to have a plan in place kinda specifying who's going to provide the care where you want that care provided in their plan. They wanted the insurance to pay for the benefit some people say I just wanted do this out of my IRA. I want to use my property to pay for the care or you know whatever that funding mechanism is that is an important piece of the overall plan and then insurance is just one way that you can help fund that grindingly long always point out that unfortunately when you look at these things in your 65 versus when you're 85.

You see things differently. As you know my dad early on after his fall he he he was in all the different state of mind and my wife and I had to take my daughter to Alabama to college and so in a way you hired some people which really upset him matter how expensive it was. Even though we had plenty of money to do it and and you know on Saturday afternoon.

We were to be gone all weekend.

Also we get this call for my dad. I sent them home. I can't deal with you know it and it ended in there was this thing that had it had there been insurance in place. You know he would've been sending most people, when it was his money and he didn't feel like he was getting, you know what he was paying for all my gosh you know what it you know we ended up having to rush back in whatever casino is just it was what happened because again, what you think you're going to do. But when you turn 85 and things start to go wrong. It's a different story right Tom are absolutely and a lot of it to having to deal with the denial. There's a huge portion of of people that know when her younger that they owe you. That won't be a problem when I get there all know it and then I can in all tiresome to do it. It's much harder. What you get into that moment to be able to accept that hey this is safe for me to do this anymore.

I shouldn't be getting in and out of the shower and and risking a fault, it's what happens a lot of times people are in denial, but I can still do this in part of that is it's hard to let go of something that you could once do and that you can't do an event that is difficult and so putting the plan in place ahead of time to really address that possibility really likelihood that you'll get there at some point is very helpful in terms of this, handing over the reins of like okay I'm here now, or maybe her love looking for, you know, I think rodents are needed can implement this plan and so it's much easier to do it ahead of time as opposed to waiting till after the fact. I think in you know why not get some help the people to do these things all the time right because you know that they they they see all these things. It is not such thing as a cookie-cutter approach for what you may want your family's needs all those kind of things so easy to get up with them is cardinal right in there you can you know email Hans get his book the complete cardinal guide to planning for living in retirement or Tom Griffith you know is Tom is my age. You know what, with all my stuff as you can tell now help me with my long-term care plan and all that stuff because you know they know the questions to ask, and who to get involved in all those kind of things.

That's all there is cardinal was great to have you and the whole show for the first time Tom. I loved it. Thank you. Finishing well is a general discussion and education of the issues facing retirees cardinal cardinal advisors upon trial CFP some insurance this show does not offer investment products or investment advice.

We hope you enjoyed finishing well brought you by cardinal visit cardinal for free downloads of the show or previous shows on topics such as Social Security, Medicare and IRAs, long-term care, life insurance, investments and taxes as well as constant best-selling book, the complete cardinal guide to planning for and living in retirement and the workbook once again for dozens of free resources past shows to get Hans book go to cardinal if you have a question, comment or suggestion for future shows. Click on the finishing well radio show on the website and send us a word. Once again, that's cardinal cardinal this is the Truth Network